Die Fighting for Ukraine?

[Chiisai]

Good point, but i think war in itself is terrible, unless you are drafted or are impoverished and see the military as a way out, going to war is a moral wrong regardless or whos side you are on. However, some brave people are willing to accept the pain of both physical risk and shooting at other kids. Its a very morally grey area and i feel very bad for the soldiers on all sides, even though i pray Ukraine keeps its independence.

True. One thing I realized lately is that there is no such thing as black and white in society nowadays. I believe the issues of war, pandemic, and economics are all sort of propagandas by elites and we are just pawns.

 

[lonleycrowdedwest]

True. One thing I realized lately is that there is no such thing as black and white in society nowadays. I believe the issues of war, pandemic, and economics are all sort of propagandas by elites and we are just pawns.

Exactly. Like as much as those americans and brits going to Ukraine are doing a good thing, do you think some russian soldiers arent in the same mindset? I think overall ukraine and their citizens are in the right, but that doesnt excuse the killing and pain that will happen. However, this is comig from an american who has never really worried about my countries soverienty

True. One thing I realized lately is that there is no such thing as black and white in society nowadays. I believe the issues of war, pandemic, and economics are all sort of propagandas by elites and we are just pawns.

And yes i agree and it upsets me that so many people fall for every single propagandized peice of media. Like its literally a war between two developed nations, treat all news as propaganda unless proved otherwise.

 

[dreambound]

yeah i can see it now.......me chuffing on my asthma inhaler asking for a cease fire so i can go through my extensive repertoire of OCD rituals before tea time........

 

[Chiisai]

Exactly. Like as much as those americans and brits going to Ukraine are doing a good thing, do you think some russian soldiers arent in the same mindset? I think overall ukraine and their citizens are in the right, but that doesnt excuse the killing and pain that will happen. However, this is comig from an american who has never really worried about my countries soverienty

And yes i agree and it upsets me that so many people fall for every single propagandized peice of media. Like its literally a war between two developed nations, treat all news as propaganda unless proved otherwise.

I try to be unbiased as much as possible however all this censorship/media cancelling is just proving how biased society is. I try bypassing these censorships and sometimes go to the darkweb for articles that offers a different perspective.

 

[lonleycrowdedwest]

I try to be unbiased as much as possible however all this censorship/media cancelling is just proving how biased society is. I try bypassing these censorships and sometimes go to the darkweb for articles that offers a different perspective.

I feel as though they've kind of already won. Like if all of the media outlets are following the same idea, E.G. iraq war for the us, who do you turn to? unverified sources. And the majority of unverified sources are just bullshitting. Theyve already won the war of information just by being a formerly trusted source of information. The scary part is that if you cant trust the news you trust twitter accounts right? Who's to say some of these people are fascists, or cult leaders to be? The balkanization of information will be the end of us, i swear. Thanks world wide web.

 

[Chiisai]

I feel as though they've kind of already won. Like if all of the media outlets are following the same idea, E.G. iraq war for the us, who do you turn to? unverified sources. And the majority of unverified sources are just bullshitting. Theyve already won the war of information just by being a formerly trusted source of information. The scary part is that if you cant trust the news you trust twitter accounts right? Who's to say some of these people are fascists, or cult leaders to be? The balkanization of information will be the end of us, i swear. Thanks world wide web.

Rather than deem it as outright bs, I try to leave room for further research in regards to unverified sources. I dont know if its true for everyone but I find it quite easy to pick up the pattern of manipulative/selective cues in mainstream media. I dont know if its gutfeeling or I got used to it since I grew up in it.

 

[lonleycrowdedwest]

Rather than deem it as outright bs, I try to leave room for further research in regards to unverified sources. I dont know if its true for everyone but I find it quite easy to pick up the pattern of manipulative/selective cues in mainstream media. I dont know if its gutfeeling or I got used to it since I grew up in it.

I'm not sure if grouping manipulative and secular is a good move. I honestly think even the most religious new channels are all lying. It isnt about how much god is a factor, is more about how money/power hungry the people are. This affects secular and religious people the same.

 

[alexit]

yeah i can see it now.......me chuffing on my asthma inhaler asking for a cease fire so i can go through my extensive repertoire of OCD rituals before tea time........

Brothers in arms

 

[diyCTB]

Not at all.

There has been a recent demonstrations in my country by a group of a few hundred Ukrainians who are our citizens who participated demanded from our president to put sanctions on Russia and provide Ukraine with vests, helmets and weapons. There is a problem with this. My country is surrounded by countries who are our enemies and are friends of Russia. Should our president provide Ukraine with weapons, next time when there will be a conflict with our neighbors it will be "different".

I found out that one of group's member supports a person named Stepan Bandera who organized Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists and fought along with Nazy Germany doing the dirty jobs for them by torturing and killing hundreds of thousands of polish people when victims were subject to animalistic tortures before dying. They were also responsible for slaughter of 1.5 million Ukrainian jews. I haven't mention how many Russian armed and unarmed people they killed but do you own research.

I found Polish archive recently and saw photos, pictures, information. When I saw it, an anger started to build inside me for atrocities these people committed and to this day deny what they did. Ukraine nationalists here see that person as their leader to this day and I saw that on Facebook page of group's member. With recent demonstration, they basically sold out my country because they are proponents of their leader's ideals to this day which is to survive and become independent at all costs.

I take no sides in their conflict between Russia but now that I see a true face of these rats and their entitled and audacious behavior in countries who accept them today as refugees I despise them and would side with Russia only if it had good intentions for their own people which they don't.

Ukraine's government condemns our president about not giving them weapons. Recently EU stepped in and asks from our president to provide them with with weapons. My country is already currently providing aid to Ukraine and sent a delegation of doctors to deploy a camp and assist wounded. Our country also accepts Ukrainian refugees who just wanted peace and lost most if not everything from this conflict and their nationalists don't give a shite about them. Hopefully most of refugees are not proponents of nationalists' ideals. Not their innocent children at least.

I think it is very audacious to say the least of Ukraine government to demand weapons and they should not expect more than that based on information I provided above and should be appreciative of our will to assist. I think mass media is giving too much credit to Ukraine side of conflict without realizing how it will impact other countries.

 

[Tackingintothewind]

Not at all.

There has been a recent demonstrations in my country by a group of a few hundred Ukrainians who are our citizens who participated demanded from our president to put sanctions on Russia and provide Ukraine with vests, helmets and weapons. There is a problem with this. My country is surrounded by countries who are our enemies and are friends of Russia. Should our president provide Ukraine with weapons, next time when there will be a conflict with our neighbors it will be "different".

I found out that one of group's member supports a person named Stepan Bandera who organized Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists and fought along with Nazy Germany doing the dirty jobs for them by torturing and killing hundreds of thousands of polish people when victims were subject to animalistic tortures before dying. They were also responsible for slaughter of 1.5 million Ukrainian jews. I haven't mention how many Russian armed and unarmed people they killed but do you own research.

I found Polish archive recently and saw photos, pictures, information. When I saw it, an anger started to build inside me for atrocities these people committed and to this day deny what they did. Ukraine nationalists here see that person as their leader to this day and I saw that on Facebook page of group's member. With recent demonstration, they basically sold out my country because they are proponents of their leader's ideals to this day which is to survive and become independent at all costs.

I take no sides in their conflict between Russia but now that I see a true face of these rats and their entitled and audacious behavior in countries who accept them today as refugees I despise them and would side with Russia only if it had good intentions for their own people which they don't.

Ukraine's government condemns our president about not giving them weapons. Recently EU stepped in and asks from our president to provide them with with weapons. My country is already currently providing aid to Ukraine and sent a delegation of doctors to deploy a camp and assist wounded. Our country also accepts Ukrainian refugees who just wanted peace and lost most if not everything from this conflict and their nationalists don't give a shite about them. Hopefully most of refugees are not proponents of nationalists' ideals. Not their innocent children at least.

I think it is very audacious to say the least of Ukraine government to demand weapons and they should not expect more than that based on information I provided above and should be appreciative of our will to assist. I think mass media is giving too much credit to Ukraine side of conflict without realizing how it will impact other countries.

Wow.... you sound just as bigoted as the nazis with that post.

Yes Ukrainians are asking your country for help, they are desperate and dont have the ability or luxury to think rationally right now about how your help might affect you. Trust me your country's citezens would be doing the same if your country was in Ukraine's place.
Are some Ukrainians extreme right? Yes. Are some people in your country extreme right? Yes. Every country has them. You cant cast the beliefs of one on an entire group of people.

Has Ukraine done terrible things in the past? Yes. Have terrible things happened to Ukraine in the past that lead to citizens having a callous disregard for life as well as a real need for independence from the Soviet union? Yes... its called the holodomor, where russia intentionally starved millions and millions of Ukrainian people even to the point of death. Does it excuse the behaviour? No. But it paints a fuller picture then what you were painting.

 

[WadeingThru]

Ukraine is waiving visa restrictions and allowing anyone from any country who wants to join the fight in. Would be such a badass way to go. They only want people with military training though, which makes sense. They don't want to babysit a loser like me.

Watch some Rambo movies and go be a bad ass!

 

[diyCTB]

Wow.... you sound just as bigoted as the nazis with that post.

Yes Ukrainians are asking your country for help, they are desperate and dont have the ability or luxury to think rationally right now about how your help might affect you. Trust me your country's citezens would be doing the same if your country was in Ukraine's place.
Are some Ukrainians extreme right? Yes. Are some people in your country extreme right? Yes. Every country has them. You cant cast the beliefs of one on an entire group of people.

I could find more for you but I thought it was clear enough. The entire group knew what it was doing
and they are definitely not desperate nor lacking ability to think rationally.
Those people also stick anti-russian posters on bus stops, paint stuff on garbage cans. There is now divide
between Russians and Ukrainians in my country because some of immigrants and people who have been
here for a year or two brought conflict to this country.

Some of them display entitled and audacious behavior in countries that accepted them and offered them
aid. Some start fights with local service providers, with pedestrians who talk in Russian but were not born there.
I have not of any refugees or immigrants acting that way ever. They usually start acting that way when they have
lived long enough in a country to become A class citizens.

And who are you to tell what would another country would do? Who are you to associate me with Nazis?
If my country was doing this, Ukraine government obsessed with their idea of survive and become independent
would not give a shite about my country just as it does not gave a shite about people who lost a lot if not everything.
They did not give a shite when my country was in conflict with nearing countries and condemned our right to defense
in UN while we condemned Russia for its actions.

If country wants independence it should not act in entitled way like every country owes them something and should appreciate
the welcoming of other countries to provide international aid and accept refugees in distress. Independence is not achieved at
expense of countries who don't owe you anything.

 

[Tackingintothewind]

I could find more for you but I thought it was clear enough. The entire group knew what it was doing.
Those people also stick anti-russian posters on bus stops, paint stuff on garbage cans. There is now divide
between Russians and Ukrainians in my country because some of immigrants and people who have been
here for a year or two brought conflict to this country.

Some of them display entitled and audacious behavior in countries that accepted them and offered them
aid. Some start fights with local service providers, with pedestrians who talk in Russian but were not born there.
I have not of any refugees or immigrants acting that way ever. They usually start acting that way when they have
lived long enough in a country to become A class citizens.

And who are you to tell what would another country would do? Who are you to associate me with Nazis?
If my country was doing this, Ukraine government obsessed with their idea of survive and become independent
would not give a shite about my country just as it does not gave a shite about people who lost a lot if not everything.

If country wants independence it should not act in entitled way like every country owes them something and should appreciate
the welcoming of other countries to provide international aid and accept refugees in distress. Independence is not achieved at
expense of countries who don't owe you anything.

UKrainians hating russia right now, fully understandable. Russia is destroying their homes, killing their family and destroying their nationality. Of course they hate russia. Yes this grudge as been building since the holodornor but just because they hate Russia, it doesnt mean they aren't desperate.... their homeland, their culture their independence and their kin are being forcefully, illegally and cruelly taken from them. They are asking everyone for help, even when the consequence of that help would be ww3. There are in a horrible, horrible position and noone can help them beyond what is already being done, for them that help is not enough. So they are desperate, they are angry, and they not thinking straight. I promise you, you would not think straight either if your much larger neighbour invaded you and the rest of the world only did what they are doing for the ukraine right now. You would be filled with the same hate, and that hate would be.justified.

As for who I am, I'm someone who has studied history and seen this behaviour from all the countries that have been invaded, Ukraine is hardly unique here, China still bares the most unbelievable hatred for the japanese, even though that war ended nearly 80 years ago. Source I'm 1/4 chinese, therefore have chinese family and lived there myself for four years. Every person is fiercely protective of their homes, the reason you currently hate Ukrainians is that they are doing something that threatens your home, you are already not thinking straight as you are now portraying them as the culprits of this war when all the facts state otherwise, that is how I know how your country will react.
If you dont want to be called bigoted dont cast away a whole ethnic group on the beliefs of one individual. If you dont want to be compare to a nazi try showing empathy for a group of people who are currently victims receiving the bare minimum of help from the world at large.

 

[raghu1977]

Not so hilarious. Have you heard of the airplane? Or the missle?

They are going to supply troops with missiles? Fascinating!

 

[RetroChaos]

Thats an interesting idea. However, I think there will be consequences for foreigners participating in the war. If, God forbid, a foreigner gets captured or worse, they might be able to recover visas or identify the nationality, then the volunteer's nation could be grounds for participation in the war then it might turn into a multi-national war then into a global scale. As much as I want to end my suffering quickly and make myself useful at the same time, I dont think I can fathom dragging my country into my troubles or worse be part of such dangerous consequences.

Imagine wanting to go to war for suicide and end up being responsible for World War III lol

 

[TakeMeBack07]

However, I think there will be consequences for foreigners participating in the war. If, God forbid, a foreigner gets captured or worse, they might be able to recover visas or identify the nationality, then the volunteer's nation could be grounds for participation in the war then it might turn into a multi-national war then into a global scale. As much as I want to end my suffering quickly and make myself useful at the same time, I dont think I can fathom dragging my country into my troubles or worse be part of such dangerous consequences.

doubt

 

[diyCTB]

If you dont want to be called bigoted dont cast away a whole ethnic group on the beliefs of one individual. If you dont want to be compare to a nazi try showing empathy for a group of people who are currently victims receiving the bare minimum of help from the world at large.

I mentioned already that am not from either country and I don't take sides and I am thinking straight.
Where did I say whole ethnic group holds beliefs of one individual? If that was a thing then nobody would
run from Ukraine and everybody would fight until their last breath, even those who do not want to but being
forced and having no choice so that already disproves your above notion.
But like most people on the internet you assumed the worst without even bothering to clarify and saw me as
bigoted Nazi with no prior correspondence with me. This does not give me an impression of intelligent person.

I am showing perspective from my side and call things by their names without sugar-coating it by political correctness
like you expected. People who share ideals of who they call leader to this day, acting entitled and demanding something
from country they condemned in past with UN that today helps them with what it can yet have audacity to neglect its security
are hypocrites who only think about themselves.

 

[Chiisai]

Imagine wanting to go to war for suicide and end up being responsible for World War III lol

Right? Thats gonna weigh a lot on my conscience. As much as possible, I want my death to only affect me.

doubt

Whatever floats your boat bud.

 

[justtiredofit]

For me it would depend on someone's motivations. If I could go there to truly help fight and happen to be killed, so be it. But if my motivation is really to go there to be killed, then I know I would probably make things worse for them since I couldn't be relied upon.

 

[SN-chan]

Can't escape the NPC talking points even on here. If you are willing to go and possibly harm and kill other people with a very little understanding of the situation hoping that some of that manufactured heroism by the media would brush on you in the eyes of other NPCs and get a little bit of that sweet attention/ego out of it, then we got to applaud you because you truly need that and deserve it for understanding that the world would be a better place without morally bankrupt people like you in it.

 

[willitpass]

personally i believe inserting yourself into this god awful war for the sake of suicide is fucked up. if you are going to fight in the Ukraine then do it to save the thousands of civilian lives being lost while they try to flee or are unable to flee. Don't put yourself in there for your own suicide. There are many other methods and that one isn't dignifying to the people who are begging for help, not someone using the war for their own personal gain

 

[Tackingintothewind]

I mentioned already that am not from either country and I don't take sides and I am thinking straight.
Where did I say whole ethnic group holds beliefs of one individual? If that was a thing then nobody would
run from Ukraine and everybody would fight until their last breath, even those who do not want to but being
forced and having no choice so that already disproves your above notion.
But like most people on the internet you assumed the worst without even bothering to clarify and saw me as
bigoted Nazi with no prior correspondence with me. This does not give me an impression of intelligent person.

I am showing perspective from my side and call things by their names without sugar-coating it by political correctness
like you expected. People who share ideals of who they call leader to this day, acting entitled and demanding something
from country they condemned in past with UN that today helps them with what it can yet have audacity to neglect its security
are hypocrites who only think about themselves.

Yet you are clearly taking sides by cursing all Ukrainians as horrible people unworthy of help because they were simply asking for help, linking their actions now to the terrible actions some (a small handful) ukrainians chose to take in ww2. Did you read your first post in this forum, and your 2nd for that matter, you were being really vile to an entire nature because they were asking your country to do something which your country will refuse to do anyway. That was all I needed to see you were being bigoted as hell against a current victim group. I dont think anyone else who read your first comment will come to a different conclusion. Judging an entire people for the beliefs of one and the acts of a few historical representatives is the definition of a bigot. The reason I brought up nazis is because that is what you were imply all Ukrainians are. I could have easily brought up any other bigoted grouping the past but you.fed that one yourself.

As for showing perspective... Ukrainians are also asking us to go to war for them. We wont as Putin has already essentially promised ww3 should a nato country get involved, my own country will suffer because Russia has nukes that can reach us, and many other countries will suffer besides. So we wont go to war to help Ukraine, it doesnt mean we have to compare all Ukrainians to neo nazis as you were doing in order to do this. You can be empathetic without giving them what they are asking for. If they are in your country they presumably live there, they dont want your country to be attacked, they just want more men on the ground in their country to keep as many.of their people, homes and ways of life as safe as possible. They aren't thinking straight because noone has ever thought straight in this situation and noone ever will.
And now I'm not going to bother with you any more. Simply put you are not worth any more effort for me. Relax in the knowledge that your country wont join this war no matter what the ukrainians ask and that as of this moment both NATO and Russia are avoiding engaging each other and as a result avoiding ww3.

 

[diyCTB]

@Tackingintothewind Neither will I be discussing this with you. Either you intentionally don't want to understand or have dogs in this fight.

 

[JustSwingingTheD]

Let's be brutally honest here: Most people on this site would probably do the most good to the Ukrainian side by joining the Russian side.

Picture a psychopathic person, who never panics, who never has regrets or guilt, who has nerves of steel (this is why psychopaths are such good sharp-shooters, their hands never get shaky) to whom adrenaline and danger is a good bit of fun, the perfect soldier, the perfect killing machine.

And then look in the mirror.

 

[Chiisai]

I mentioned already that am not from either country and I don't take sides and I am thinking straight.
Where did I say whole ethnic group holds beliefs of one individual? If that was a thing then nobody would
run from Ukraine and everybody would fight until their last breath, even those who do not want to but being
forced and having no choice so that already disproves your above notion.
But like most people on the internet you assumed the worst without even bothering to clarify and saw me as
bigoted Nazi with no prior correspondence with me. This does not give me an impression of intelligent person.

I am showing perspective from my side and call things by their names without sugar-coating it by political correctness
like you expected. People who share ideals of who they call leader to this day, acting entitled and demanding something
from country they condemned in past with UN that today helps them with what it can yet have audacity to neglect its security
are hypocrites who only think about themselves.

I get your point. Thanks for providing your perspective.

 

[Ligottian]

I agree that Ukraine should defend its independence, but i think you would agree that war is so gross. I feel so bad for every soldier risking their lives and possibly killing another human for some bullshit. If i were drafted in a way i would immediately either shoot myself or face the jail time.

Agree. In the Vietnam war, I think more than a few Americans took the prison time. Also, during that time the US military did not take admitted homosexuals. Jim Morrison said that if he got drafted he would tell them he was gay and they would be the sorriest motherfuckers on the earth if they took him.

 

[RetroChaos]

I'm aware I'm sure a lot of Russians don't want to be in this war. But I have no sympathy for those carrying out orders to attack innocent civilians; let alone invade a democratic sovereign nation. If you want to go and defend what's right then so be it, you go there to support Ukraine, not fight for your own nation that isn't involved currently.
It's just an added bonus if something happens to you, though would be nice to take some scum down to give my life some value or meaning, thinking I did something good to hopefully save peace.

 

[JustAMatterOfTime]

Why risk becoming a POW or getting wounded, it's not like a film running forward into bullets and pop there you go life over.

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

Not at all.

There has been a recent demonstrations in my country by a group of a few hundred Ukrainians who are our citizens who participated demanded from our president to put sanctions on Russia and provide Ukraine with vests, helmets and weapons. There is a problem with this. My country is surrounded by countries who are our enemies and are friends of Russia. Should our president provide Ukraine with weapons, next time when there will be a conflict with our neighbors it will be "different".

I found out that one of group's member supports a person named Stepan Bandera who organized Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists and fought along with Nazy Germany doing the dirty jobs for them by torturing and killing hundreds of thousands of polish people when victims were subject to animalistic tortures before dying. They were also responsible for slaughter of 1.5 million Ukrainian jews. I haven't mention how many Russian armed and unarmed people they killed but do you own research.

I found Polish archive recently and saw photos, pictures, information. When I saw it, an anger started to build inside me for atrocities these people committed and to this day deny what they did. Ukraine nationalists here see that person as their leader to this day and I saw that on Facebook page of group's member. With recent demonstration, they basically sold out my country because they are proponents of their leader's ideals to this day which is to survive and become independent at all costs.

I take no sides in their conflict between Russia but now that I see a true face of these rats and their entitled and audacious behavior in countries who accept them today as refugees I despise them and would side with Russia only if it had good intentions for their own people which they don't.

Ukraine's government condemns our president about not giving them weapons. Recently EU stepped in and asks from our president to provide them with with weapons. My country is already currently providing aid to Ukraine and sent a delegation of doctors to deploy a camp and assist wounded. Our country also accepts Ukrainian refugees who just wanted peace and lost most if not everything from this conflict and their nationalists don't give a shite about them. Hopefully most of refugees are not proponents of nationalists' ideals. Not their innocent children at least.

I think it is very audacious to say the least of Ukraine government to demand weapons and they should not expect more than that based on information I provided above and should be appreciative of our will to assist. I think mass media is giving too much credit to Ukraine side of conflict without realizing how it will impact other countries.

But on a basic level, Ukrainians are just defending themselves from attack. Civilians are being murdered. How is it more complicated?

 

[edu0z]

Thats an interesting idea. However, I think there will be consequences for foreigners participating in the war. If, God forbid, a foreigner gets captured or worse, they might be able to recover visas or identify the nationality, then the volunteer's nation could be grounds for participation in the war then it might turn into a multi-national war then into a global scale. As much as I want to end my suffering quickly and make myself useful at the same time, I dont think I can fathom dragging my country into my troubles or worse be part of such dangerous consequences.

I think you're carrying too much responsibility on your shoulders at an almost dystopian level... please try to relax, you are just a human being and a good person. If you think like that about something as distant as a little war that isn't going to last long, I don't want to imagine how you might have to torture yourself with the things going on around you.