CTB theory

[SexyIncél]

Here's my current understanding of suicide:



It's all about suffering. People overblow the suicide part — but it's just a couple points on the suffering line

Examples:

Pro-lifers don't solve your suffering. They just dial up every other knob: ctb difficulty, empty illusory hope, SI ("You'll go to hell!"), and suicide threshold ("Think of the starving kids in Japan!")

Some say that sasu posts should only be about CTB methods & SI. Maybe they have 0 hope, and lifelong suffering in a certain range? That's why they might post a lot about hating life & yet haven't CTB'ed

The principled road to solving suicide: reducing your suffering. And if you had 5 competent people whose job is to reduce your suffering by any means necessary, it'd boost your hope

 

[QueerMelancholy]

Interesting read, thank you for sharing.

The principled road to solving suicide definitely includes reducing one's own suffering. But I believe it should also include solving suffering on a grander scale. Overall it feels like suffering has become so romanticized as a stepping stone to becoming more compassionate or as serving a divine purpose towards recieving grandiose rewards. Suffering is seen as an experience necessary towards promoting love and empathy.

I'd argue there's already enough adequate accounts of how suffering affects humanity in our history that encouraging that suffering be experienced firsthand as a gateway to becoming more compassionate is troubling and allows suffering to linger as ppl decide and dictate that we search for the silver linings in traumatic or miserable situations instead of focusing on and tackling the fundamental problems and issues that lead to and seemingly even push people towards suffering.

Humans are a strange bunch though, and we have a difficult time learning from our mistakes. But I suspect that's because how suffering is taught to us as a mechanism towards bettering ourselves. As if suffering is an integral part of the machine that is society. I personally don't see suffering as an essential part of life and I find the people who encourage finding the silver linings in terrible situations maddening. With all our combined intelligence and advancements in science and technology one would think as a species humans would have solved suffering already. And as long as suffering remains a valuable part of social teachings, ideologies, and economical systems, society will continue to see suffering as an asset because culturally and economically suffering is seen as profitable. As if suffering is necessary in driving motivation, or economic growth.

The right to fail has become as valuable in society as the right to succeed, and until human suffering loses its profitability, I fear it will remain.

 

[TransilvanianHunger]

The principled road to solving suicide: reducing your suffering.

Essentially, yes. You might find this book interesting, it outlines a compelling case for the reduction of suffering as a categorical imperative. Kind of curious to read your thoughts on it, actually.

 

[SexyIncél]

I'd argue there's already enough adequate accounts of how suffering affects humanity in our history that encouraging that suffering be experienced firsthand as a gateway to becoming more compassionate is troubling and allows suffering to linger as ppl decide and dictate that we search for the silver linings in traumatic or miserable situations instead of focusing on and tackling the fundamental problems and issues that lead to and seemingly even push people towards suffering.

Yeah . If we don't replace the social mechanisms that repeatedly cause suffering, we get stuck in whack-a-mole

Lynn Chancer argued that sadomasochism's actually pervasive in everyday life — not just bedrooms — so it's not surprising everyone internalizes suffering

You might find this book interesting, it outlines a compelling case for the reduction of suffering as a categorical imperative. Kind of curious to read your thoughts on it, actually.

Interesting! Yeah, I've often thought about ↓ suffering vs ↑ pleasure. Suffering's an obstacle to pleasure:

• pain makes you focus on your suffering self
• pleasure lets you forget yourself

Suffering reduces your freedom & play. (One kind of play is exerting your powers for the sheer pleasure of doing so.) If suffering's my only possibility, I might as well embrace nonexistence: 0 possibilities

If I'm your friend, my job's to enable a good time for you: more pleasure, less suffering. But I become repelled by close friends who constantly pig out on private pleasures amidst suffering

And don't get me wrong, I love simulating depraved pleasures, but doing it for real is usually gross. Anyway, the most fun adventures involve reducing suffering by increasing freedoms. Because you meet antagonists — and play antihero vs villain!

Plus, Aristotle claimed that friendships based on pleasure aren't enduring... The compatibly virtuous are longer-lasting fun

So anyway, yeah, I think the book could be handy! Like if you want to build a society based on care and freedom/play. Instead of one based on production/consumption. To better explore suffering & avoid silly traps

I have more thoughts on the book, but this is long enough...

• pain makes you focus on your suffering self
• pleasure lets you forget yourself

BTW, I realize this means: pleasure offers the self-obliteration of death. I realized this last night, when offering pleasures. A little temporary delicious death