Can One Truly Make a Fullly Informed Discussion to CTB if One's Brain Isn't Fully Developed

[Chupacabra 44]

The article below states that the human brain is still developing until around the age of 25, based on scientific research. Based on this science, do you perceive that the AVERAGE person between aged 18 to 25 is properly equipped to make a decision to CTB?

The key word here is AVERAGE, as I believe there are exceptions to every rule.

Please vote above and then explain why you answered the way you did.

Here is the article.

Brain Maturity Extends Well Beyond Teen Years

Under most laws, young people are recognized as adults at age 18. But emerging science about brain development suggests that most people don't reach full maturity until the age 25. Guest host Tony Cox discusses the research and its implications with Sandra Aamodt, neuroscientist and co-author of...

www.npr.org

 

[DoNotLet2]

Well I think it is two sided and someone can mistakenly choose to life. Am I evil for saying that? Or not? Idk.

 

[GoneGoneGone]

Uuuuu again with this discussion. It's a delicate one! You don't want to be anti-choice, but you cannot be oblivious to the fact that some 18-25 year-olds are in deep pain...

 

[BipolarGuy]

Difficult one.
On one hand you've got the usual issues and hormones associated with growing up. On the other you cannot completely negate the experiences and emotions of everybody in a certain age range based on hormones.

It's not just about the age, it's about the stage of life they're at. If they're around abusive parents for instance then moving away from them could help.

 

[Deafsn0w]

18 year olds are old enough to fight and are old enough to receive death penalty. So they are old enough to make an informed decision to ctb

 

[BipolarGuy]

18 year olds are old enough to fight and are old enough to receive death penalty. So they are old enough to make an informed decision to ctb

Fair point.

 

[mooncake]

I disagree with @GoneGoneGone .I think it's wonderful, that you keep starting thought provoking conversations on here. Everyone can decide for themselves, whether they want to partake in them or not.

And I don't think your question denies that people under the age of 25 can be in unbearable pain. It only asks whether or not people in that age group can make an informed decision they fully understand.

I'm 26 and I honestly gotta say that I belive that it's hard for anyone to make a fully informed decision on ctb, considering there isn't much information to begin with. I'm also not sure if I can exclude myself from the age group you mentioned.

It has taken me around three months to decide on a method only to find out, that that method has side effects, I didn't anticipate and that get in the way of what I had planned for my body.
I wont know whether or not I'll be successful, or perhaps even injured myself permanently because there is almost to no scientific data available for any method. Let alone on how to execute it to ensure success or on the risks of failure.
I'm still reflected enough to notice that the mounting pressure is warping my thinking lately. So I worry that I might idealize a method out if desperation, with my brain filtering out any red flags.

I also really care about how exactly me passing would impact others, and how I could make it easier on them. I don't know if they'd appreciate a farewell video, or of that would be triggering.
I found some information but it was mostly "don't do it" "your mom will cry, so don't do it" "if you're considering, just don't do it".
Not very informative. I obviously can't discuss and plan that with my loved ones.

It's also a pain in the ass to find out what will happen to my body, that I won't have a say in through my will. The legal process that follows someone ctb.
I couldn't even find out how a deceased person is pepared for a wake, and I'm really worried, that they won't have my foundation shade, and I'll be laying in the coffin with a gray face. Casket ready (ppl with darker complexions will understand haha)

 

[TheQ22]

Well you could also ask "can any person be trusted to make their mind up to ctb, since that might mean they have some kind of MH crisis"

So no one can decide, because to most people deciding to ctb is the antithesis to everything they understand.

But yeah, I've seen before the human brain isn't fully developed until 24/25, but even at fully developed it doesn't mean it's working properly.

So who knows?

 

[LonelyNick]

I say yes because of trauma. I had a friend around the same age as me that CBT when we were 7 years old. His life was so horrible, don't want to go into details too much but a bunch of abuse from multiple relative is what happened to him. He was in so much pain and terror. He tried to reach out to adults and they only abused him more.

He had no help, he was a child. I'm glad he's resting in peace because I saw his suffering. I was 7 but it's still ingrained in my brain. Suffering is suffering. We all die. Why is it so grown upon to decide when *you* want to go?

Part of me wonders sometimes how much easier it must have been in the distant past to end your life. Swords, daggers, plague, cholera, wars, cyanide in make up and dresses, ect. People were not watched 24/7 like we are now, it must have been easier.

 

[mooncake]

18 year olds are old enough to fight and are old enough to receive death penalty. So they are old enough to make an informed decision to ctb

Are they though? Because thats not the standard everywhere.
In Germany the judicial system for minors technically ends at 18. However, if a defendent is under or just 21, it is up to the judge to decide whether to give them and adult or minor sentence.
In South Korea you are considered to be an adult at 19.
In some countries (including the USA) you can marry a child, as long as the parents consent.

18 is a rather arbitrary age.

Also, the determination that 18 year olds are old enough to fight has been made some before we were a bit more informed on the the delopement of the human brain.

 

[Ghost2211]

I'll stay above 18 so as not to ruffle feathers around here, but 18-25 year olds are perfectly capable of seeing if their life is nothing but suffering with no real opportunity for happiness.

 

[GoneGoneGone]

I disagree with @GoneGoneGone .I think it's wonderful, that you keep starting thought provoking conversations on here.

Dear what I meant is that this topic has been discussed before by OP in a different form.
Now he's being more specific with his parameters.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/am-i-a-manipulator.48379/#post-874484

 

[Caspers]

I chose maybe as it depends on emotional maturity too. Is an 18 year old with the emotional age of 25+ not allowed to, whereas a 25+ year old person with the emotional age of 18 allowed?

 

[mooncake]

I chose maybe as it depends on emotional maturity too. Is an 18 year old with the emotional age of 25+ not allowed to, whereas a 25+ year old person with the emotional age of 18 allowed?

I think thats why OP wanted to focus on average maturity and brain development.

 

[GoneGoneGone]

A lot can happen in your 20s. For some, things start going downhill past-25, once they near 30 and have to deal with family/relationship/professional expectations.

I have also seen previously shy/problematic young adults evolve into people with confident personalities around the same age, soo...

I do believe that people can change, unless we're talking about dire family/financial/mental illness/ trauma/abuse circumstances.

 

[Caspers]

do believe that people can change, unless we're talking about dire family/financial/mental illness/ trauma/abuse circumstances.

Lol I have no hope then

 

[esse_est_percipi]

18 is a rather arbitrary age.

Also, the determination that 18 year olds are old enough to fight has been made some before we were a bit more informed on the the delopement of the human brain

yes, being old enough to fight for your country and potentially kill other humans in a war is not necessarily indicative of much concerning the brain and development, except a cynical willingness of those in power to use very young humans as expendable cannon fodder.

 

[Drowning fish]

Why do you keep wanting younger people to live if they just can't take it anymore? It isn't the first time you're bringing this topic, OP. I personally find this infuriating.
Is this some kind of superiority complex because you view younger as dumber or less experienced? Because young people have seen and been through things too.

 

[GoneGoneGone]

Lol I have no hope then

No that's not what I meant! I meant that people can change throughout life, and that's why ctb-ing at 18 due to one specific circumstance let's say could be premature, when at 25 you might be feeling some closure. Or you might be feeling the same.

 

[mooncake]

yes, being old enough to fight for your country and potentially kill other humans in a war is not necessarily indicative of much concerning the brain and development, except a cynical willingness of those in power to use very young humans as expendable cannon fodder.

I'd argue that 18 isn't old enough to enlist

 

[BitterlyAlive]

Yes.

 

[mooncake]

Why do you keep wanting younger people to live if they just can't take it anymore? It isn't the first time you're bringing this topic, OP. I personally find this infuriating.
Is this some kind of superiority complex because you view younger as dumber or less experienced? Because young people have seen and been through things too.

No one has said that here.

 

[GoneGoneGone]

No one has said that here.

OP said that 9 days ago in the thread that I linked

 

[muffin222]

OP, why do you post on here? I'm genuinely curious- not trying to be hostile.
What are your intentions? It seems like you make a lot of posts that are pro-life and intended to tell young people that they can't possibly make informed decisions about CTB. What do you hope to accomplish?

 

[BridgeJumper]

Well, I tried to choke myself out with my bare hands when I was 13
Im 26 now and still want to die.
Nothing changed.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

I also wonder what a 'fully informed decision' looks like, whether it is possible for anyone regardless of age.

At any time, any person can only act based on partial knowledge and limited information, and any decision is always colored by/motivated by emotions, memories, instincts, nonrational states of mind etc.

So the question then becomes when the decision making capacity (in the prefrontal cortex) reaches its full potential (as opposed to being perfect, which it never is or can be, due to its connection with all the nonrational parts of the brain. In fact, the decision making part of the brain could never make one decision rather than another if it were cut off from all the memories, instincts, emotions etc in the primitive brain. It would be like buridan's ass).

If it's true that the brain only finishes developing at roughly 25, then on average you would have to say that a decision to ctb cannot be fully rational (relative to a particular brain's decision making potential) before 25.

That being said, and as the OP pointed out, there are exceptions due to individual circumstances.

And 'rationality' is overrated anyway, and a bit of an idealistic fantasy invented by philosophers. What counts more is what someone is living through and what they desire for themselves.

 

[Caspers]

No that's not what I meant! I meant that people can change throughout life, and that's why ctb-ing at 18 due to one specific circumstance let's say could be premature, when at 25 you might be feeling some closure. Or you might be feeling the same.

Don't worry, I was just being silly. And yes, problems should be given a chance at fixing, you shouldn't say out unless you've tried. Of course not all problems are fixable, so then it's up to them what they do with their life. Sorry if I offended you in any way

 

[GoneGoneGone]

Don't worry, I was just being silly. And yes, problems should be given a chance at fixing, you shouldn't say out unless you've tried. Of course not all problems are fixable, so then it's up to them what they do with their life. Sorry if I offended you in any way

Yes, this is what I meant. And no, I was the one worried that I offended you in any way

 

[mooncake]

OP said that 9 days ago in the thread that I linked

First of all, I meant that no one said anything like that in this thread. This thread is not trying to decide who is allowed to die. Some might make the argument, that anyone who is intensely suffering can't make an informed decision on life. I don't see why it's so wrong to have that discussion, especially if anyone can enter the conversation and share their opinion.

Also I went through many posts and I honestly didn't see anywhere, where he said he decided that anyone wasn't allowed to ctb, but rather that he hoped, that there was a way for things to get better for young people.
Unless I missed something, I really don't understand the extreme reaction. Being pro-choice doesn't mean being excited about the choice to ctb, at least it doesn't to me. Hoping younger people find ways to live a happy life, doesn't mean people under the age of 25 are dumb either. I'm also pro-choice when it comes to abortions, but I'd still want to prevent it from getting that far for various reasons.

 

[Wisdom3_1-9]

Here's a new take...
The question assumes that the brain must be fully developed for a rational decision to be made. I think that assumption itself can be challenged. We make several rational decisions well before our brains are fully-developed, and quite frankly, we make several irrational decisions even after our brain is fully-developed. I think it's fair to say that the probability of an irrational decision is higher before the brain is fully developed, but that is different than saying the brain cannot arrive at a perfectly logical conclusion.