Discussion Are Islamists taking over the West?

[Pessimist]

I think it's a real concern. Everyday there's a new example of a brutal Islamist crime in a Western country. Just today a pro-Hamas activist raped, kidnapped and threatened to murder a Jewish woman to "avenge Palestine", in a "religiously-motivated" crime.

 

[Blurry_Buildings]

Idk the statistics but there are a lot of jewish violent crimes against innocent muslims. Many christian crimes against both groups as well for that matter. We should be more concerned about extremism in general, and not allow ourselves to be divided any further.

 

[KillingPain267]

No
Unfortunately not. I wish they were because the west is evil and would deserve it.

 

[Pessimist]

Idk the statistics but there are a lot of jewish violent crimes against innocent muslims. Many christian crimes against both groups as well for that matter. We should be more concerned about extremism in general, and not allow ourselves to be divided any further.

I agree. Here are some of the most notorious Judeo-Christian terrorist groups:

Al-Qaeda


ISIS


Boko Haram


Taliban


Hamas


Palestinian Islamic Jihad


Houthis


Hezbollah

No
Unfortunately not. I wish they were because the west is evil and would deserve it.

Finally someone is telling the truth. LGBT rights are evil!

 

[Blurry_Buildings]

I answered this in the context of American or western muslims, since your question was about "muslims taking over the west". American muslims rarely commit any more hate crimes (or crimes in general) than American Jews or Christains, and no religion has any real power regardless, so no, they are not taking over the west. Every muslim person I have ever met in my life (and they aren't too common) has been indistinguishable, in both mannerisms and dress, from any other american, with the exception of the head scarf that some wear.

These groups you replied with are all located in the Middle East or Africa and each of them have political objectives unique to their specific regions. Since ik you will mention 9/11; the people involved in that were foreign citizens who did not live in the USA, and they had clear geopolitical objectives. The attacks on 9/11 would have happened whether those people followed islam or followed the holy spaghetti monster in the sky, and none of it had anything to do with the muslims living in America.

These terror groups may be using islam the same way neo-nazis and confederate sympathizers use chritianity, but they do not represent the whole. I would not say that because there are confederate sympathizers trying to use christianity in the United States, all christains in the US must be dangerous, and I certaintly wouldn't randomly extend that to christains living in Australia (where there are no organizations that claim to be descended from the confederacy).

I hesitated to respond because all of this should be common sense, but I have seen this particular question come up time and time again from the far right throughout my whole life. The US has been under "cultutal siege" from "outsiders" since its inception and yet *miraculously* it is never a problem long term. People were also afraid of the Irish, the Chinese, the African Americans, the Catholics and the Jews "taking over" but none of them ever did. Literally 10-30 years ago it was the undocumented mexican immigrants that the news wouldn't stop covering and yet now that they've all assimilated (and with less new mexican immigrants) the media frenzy is shifting to Venezuelans and Central Americans. Leaving the debate about legal vs illegal immigration for now, there will always be cultural panic based on fear, and it literally has never amounted to anything.

 

[Pessimist]

The attacks on 9/11 would have happened whether those people followed islam or followed the holy spaghetti monster in the sky

This is nonsense. Sure, they had geopolitical motives, but it was clearly an Islamist terrorist attack.

Last words of a terrorist

Chilling letter from dead hijacker gives detailed instructions for mass murder.

www.theguardian.com

Regarding hate crimes against Muslims:

Religions most commonly targeted by hate crimes U.S. 2023 | Statista

Anti-Jewish attacks were the most common form of anti-religious group hate crimes in the United States in 2023, with 1,832 cases.

www.statista.com

 

[ijustwishtodie]

They are but people don't realise it yet because they're more focused on christians whilst simultaneously believing in the islamic rhetoric that muslims are peaceful and are in the minority. They'll only realise the truth once it's too late because everybody has been fed propaganda that islam is peaceful when the truth is literally just a single online search away (i.e. searching for an english translation of the quran and/or hadith)

 

[Pessimist]

They are but people don't realise it yet because they're more focused on christians whilst simultaneously believing in the islamic rhetoric that muslims are peaceful and are in the minority. They'll only realise the truth once it's too late because everybody has been fed propaganda that islam is peaceful when the truth is literally just a single online search away (i.e. searching for an english translation of the quran and/or hadith)

If we call Islam a "religion of peace", why can't we do the same about Judeo-Christianity? Last week, Mar Mari Emmanuel, an Assyrian Christian bishop, was almost murdered by an Islamist attacker. He forgave him immediately.

 

[ham and potatoes]

They immigrate to safe Western countries to get away from the violence in their own countries, which I understand
What I don't understand is why after seeking refuge in a country, they dont even try to assimilate into the country or change any of their barbaric beliefs that is the root cause of the violence in their countries to begin with.
Would be like if I had had to seek refuge in China, and refused to accept or adapt to any Chinese traditions.. probably not going to be welcomed there

 

[odradek]

WTF, no. God damn man, I'm losing my mind. The mid 2000's called, they want their racism back. They still let David Frum out in public so I shouldn't be surprised I guess. The internet is exhausting at every level. I would throw my shoes at you if I could. How are your reflexes? (This is a joke)

 

[odradek]

I thought of my response to OPs response to my response already so I'll just post it now so I don't have to come back here and save everyone the trouble:

Pessmist: But did you know, muslims exist and crimes happen!!! (Or something)

Me: I'll have you know I didn't read any comments in here, only the title. I couldn't even know, that's unfair of you.

I'm sorry I'm not talking the threat of Islamist takeover of "the west" seriously. Wait I'm having a series of thoughts in rapid succession, so bear with me:

I live in "the west" and I did see that Al Qaeda is ready conquer my city but I only read the headline so maybe you're right. Any day now it said. Wal-mart does have Halal food now so the end is nigh.

Remember when they built the Ground Zero Mosque at Ground Zero in NYC using bricks made from 9/11 victims? I think the country started going downhill then.

Dick Cheney shot his own friend in the face and made him apologize because he was planning an Islamist take over.

Remember when they actually found WMDs in Iraq but they were the one's the USA gave them in the 80's so they covered it up? Classic Islamist takeover.

Remember when the USA created ISIS by disbanding the Iraqi army and telling them to fubk off? Galaxy-brain-level reverse psychology by the Islamists, we were always doomed.

When the USA invaded Iraq, the Administration didn't know the difference between Sunni and Shia. That's not a joke, that just happened.

An Islamist takeover of the west? How about a Christian fascist takeover of the middle east? Now were talking John Bolton's language.

I can't think of any more right now. Something, something, Jack Bauer torture something, Donald Rumsfeld. Thanks that was somewhat therapeutic.



Mate, this thread sucks. I will admit I'm being as bad faith as you are here OP. I'll stop now and leave you to whatever the eff you're doing on this website. I honestly can't tell if you're bad faith or brainwashed. Either way it's sad. I'm having an argument with myself in my head now so good time to stop.

 

[Pessimist]

The mid 2000's called, they want their racism back.

Pessmist: But did you know, muslims exist and crimes happen!!! (Or something)

Me: I'll have you know I didn't read any comments in here, only the title. I couldn't even know, that's unfair of you.

First of all, I referred to the Islamist ideology, not the Islamic religion in general. But even if I were to criticize the religion itself, there is nothing racist about it. It's the same as criticizing any other religion. Racism is discrimination based on race or ethnicity (which Muslims aren't). I don't care about your skin color or ethnicity, I care about your ideological principles. And I find the rise of Islamism and "Jihad Cool" to be concerning.

 

[Pessimist]

If we call Islam a "religion of peace", why can't we do the same about Judeo-Christianity? Last week, Mar Mari Emmanuel, an Assyrian Christian bishop, was almost murdered by an Islamist attacker. He forgave him immediately.

Update on the story:

 

[Meteora]

No, they are not.
There s many muslims who despise the violence of islamists.
When it comes to the conflict in the mideast, there are two parties involved: Israelis and Palestinians.
The Hamas are terrorists, obviously.

 

[halleyscomet]

No. There's extremists in every religion, muslims aren't a problem.

 

[Pessimist]

No, they are not.
There s many muslims who despise the violence of islamists.
When it comes to the conflict in the mideast, there are two parties involved: Israelis and Palestinians.
The Hamas are terrorists, obviously.

That's a good take. Muslims who denounce the militant Islamist ideology are not the ones to blame.

No. There's extremists in every religion, muslims aren't a problem.

There are fundamentalists in every religion, but it seems to be very common in the Muslim world. Most terror groups hold an Islamist ideology as well, and most theocratic states are Islamic.

 

[Meteora]

There are fundamentalists in every religion, but it seems to be very common in the Muslim world. Most terror groups hold an Islamist ideology as well, and most theocratic states are Islamic.

One reason for this might be that especially in Palestine, the majority of people are quite uneducated and poor, they re farmers who cannot read and write. It s much easier to win uneducated people for extreme groupings.

 

[Pessimist]

One reason for this might be that especially in Palestine, the majority of people are quite uneducated and poor, they re farmers who cannot read and write. It s much easier to win uneducated people for extreme groupings.

A lot of Palestinians are poor, but many others aren't. In fact, poverty rates of Palestinians in the West Bank (13.9%) are lower than poverty rates in Israel (21%). The leaders of Hamas, by the way, are extremely rich. They steal aid money that is supposed to be given to the Palestinians in Gaza. Also, the literacy rates in Palestine are not low.

 

[Meteora]

In fact, poverty rates of Palestinians in the West Bank (13.9%) are lower than poverty rates in Israel (21%).

Do you have an indication of source to this information?

The leaders of Hamas, by the way, are extremely rich. They steal aid money that is supposed to be given to the Palestinians in Gaza. Also, the literacy rates in Palestine are not low.

That s what I meant. They re terrorists. They don t even care about their own people.

 

[FadingDawn]

Do you have a indication of source to this information?

That s what I meant. They re terrorists. They don t even care about their own people.

Bruh is this like some not so subtle Zionist apologism

 

[Pessimist]

Do you have an indication of source to this information?

Click the numbers, it's linked...

Bruh is this like some not so subtle Zionist apologism

Are you saying that the ones building terror tunnels under civilian population care about civilian lives?

 

[Meteora]

Click the numbers, it's linked...

Are you saying that the ones building terror tunnels under civilian population care about civilian lives?

Thanks i ll have a look.

No, the ones building tunnels are ruthless terrorists and we all, the whole world, should fight them. But we all should protect Palestinian civilian, too. That s unfortunately not what Israeli military does, au contraire.

 

[Pessimist]

Thanks i ll have a look.

No, the ones building tunnels are ruthless terrorists and we all, the whole worldh, should fight them. But we all should protect Palestinian civilists, too. That s unfortunately not what Israeli military does, au contraire.

I agree that Israel is often reckless when it comes to civilian lives:

Should Israel invade Rafah?

I'm personally against an invasion of Rafah, even if there's a full evacuation of the civilian population before it. I don't think it's possible to "eliminate Hamas" at this point, especially not when many of them are fighting in civilian clothes. Israel should strive for a hostage deal and...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[Meteora]

I agree that Israel is often reckless when it comes to civilian lives:

Should Israel invade Rafah?

I'm personally against an invasion of Rafah, even if there's a full evacuation of the civilian population before it. I don't think it's possible to "eliminate Hamas" at this point, especially not when many of them are fighting in civilian clothes. Israel should strive for a hostage deal and...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Yes and so the hatred and pain and feelings of revenge go on and on and on.
Someone has to stop with all that senseless violence. But that s just a nice theory, I know. In reality, it is much more complex.

I still don t get why they don t define two states.