A subforum has appeared!

[M]

Still, not a single argument as to how this is gonna help protect this site and its users from trolls and pro-lifers.

Quite frankly the person who got banned yesterday was oberstepping the line many times and clearly didnt take this forum serious. That aside, I really dont see where all these trolls are that everyone is talking about. If trolls are such a big issue making a seperate forum for established members is arguably worse because they will just prey on more vulnerable members who arent able to see through their charade.

In regards to the pro-lifers they will always have enough screenshotting material from the goodbye threads, so how about just making those member only? Of course they can always just create an account...But again they have no power over this site.

This is a very bad move and will eventually hurt the people who need this site the most. If its not that important and wont be used much, why do many want in so badly?

It's not a secret club or elite; It's for established members to be able to have a private place to have discussions. There are only a couple of threads in there right now. The forum wasn't made because of trolls because we've never had a big troll problem in the first place.

The requirements aren't that high, but you have to have been here for some time before gaining access.

Post count doesn't matter too much, but there are other requirements that one must meet, such as being a member for a certain amount of time.

 

[All washed up]

It's not a secret club or elite; It's for established members to be able to have a private place to have discussions. There are only a couple of threads in there right now. The forum wasn't made because of trolls because we've never had a big troll problem in the first place.

The requirements aren't that high, but you have to have been here for some time before gaining access.

Post count doesn't matter too much, but there are other requirements that one must meet, such as being a member for a certain amount of time.

Hmm if post count doesn't matter too much it seems odd that long standing members from 2018/19 (I'm not long standing this isn't about me) don't get in even if they've made a reasonable contribution in the past. (I'm just going by the posts of some of the contributors to this thread for this info)

Long standing, relativly quiet members would seem to be the ideal people to have in a Sanctuary where they can perhaps feel more comfortable getting involved more.

 

[sadworld]

Hmm if post count doesn't matter too much it seems odd that long standing members from 2018/19 (I'm not long standing this isn't about me) don't get in even if they've made a reasonable contribution in the past. (I'm just going by the posts of some of the contributors to this thread for this info)

Long standing, relativly quiet members would seem to be the ideal people to have in a Sanctuary where they can perhaps feel more comfortable getting involved more.

I'm pretty sure the post count requirement is at 200 posts, which is definitely not much and is just to make sure that the person has contributed enough to the forum.

 

[RainAndSadness]

It's a compromise. We have to walk on a very thin line between accessibility and privacy.

Either you give everyone access to those sub-forums, but there will be no privacy anymore because everyone can read it anyway. So there would be no point in a members-only section because registering alone takes a few seconds. But being active in the forum, spending time on posts and interacting with the community requires a bit more work if your only intention is spying on people - and that's what groups like fixthe26 have been doing.

Or you go to the other extreme and turn up the privacy and barely anyone will be able to participate in it, that's not great either. Some people even demanded the whole forum to be members-only, that's the wrong approach in my opinion - because we again stumble upon the issue that registering alone only takes a few seconds so it doesn't provide any additional security. But having a private section for members to exchange thoughts and ideas without being monitored and judged by the public is a good idea but to make this work we have to implement certain requirements that need to be fulfilled. I know that sucks for people that haven't been here for a long time but you will eventually unlock the forum if you simply engage with the community. There is no reason to stress yourself over it. The requirements are realistic and achievable.

 

[flower]

I wish the people who didn't meet the requirements could see that it's not actually a super secret club where everyone is hanging out without them. there are only a handful of threads there, 99% of activity is still in the main forum.

there's no reason for this to cause a divide. if someone wants access then they should interact more with the forum, and they will get there. if all members were let in then it would make the whole thing obsolete.

 

[Leaving-Soon]

This is all true, it's just that some of members probably won't make it long enough to be included, for obvious reason.

Bur overall, just another exclusion - nothing that many members did not experience before…

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

This is all true, it's just that some of members probably won't make it long enough to be included, for obvious reason.

Bur overall, just another exclusion - nothing that many members did not experience before…

Let's just hope nobody ctb's over this injustice of epic proportions.

 

[Deleted member 23374]

I see no injustice in this necessary measure. I don't see the subforum.
I see no injustice in this necessary measure. I still want a decoder ring.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

I see no injustice in this necessary measure. I don't see the subforum.
I see no injustice in this necessary measure. I still want a decoder ring.

I was being sarcastic.

 

[Leaving-Soon]

Let's just hope nobody ctb's over this injustice of epic proportions.

Well, mahakali88, respect to you.

 

[All washed up]

This is all true, it's just that some of members probably won't make it long enough to be included, for obvious reason.

Bur overall, just another exclusion - nothing that many members did not experience before…

I suppose

Let's just hope nobody ctb's over this injustice of epic proportions.

Actually this could prevent ctb as aiming to get into the club could give people a reason to hang around now,

 

[Coffeandamug]

It's a compromise. We have to walk on a very thin line between accessibility and privacy.

Either you give everyone access to those sub-forums, but there will be no privacy anymore because everyone can read it anyway. So there would be no point in a members-only section because registering alone takes a few seconds. But being active in the forum, spending time on posts and interacting with the community requires a bit more work if your only intention is spying on people - and that's what groups like fixthe26 have been doing.

Or you go to the other extreme and turn up the privacy and barely anyone will be able to participate in it, that's not great either. Some people even demanded the whole forum to be members-only, that's the wrong approach in my opinion - because we again stumble upon the issue that registering alone only takes a few seconds so it doesn't provide any additional security. But having a private section for members to exchange thoughts and ideas without being monitored and judged by the public is a good idea but to make this work we have to implement certain requirements that need to be fulfilled. I know that sucks for people that haven't been here for a long time but you will eventually unlock the forum if you simply engage with the community. There is no reason to stress yourself over it. The requirements are realistic and achievable.

Although I think there would be better well-though manners to deal with fixthe26 and other minor issues, I would agree if the entrence requirements for the sanctuary are reasonable. I guess reasonable requirements, are the line between an "elite private club" (and I don't know if it's fair to say that in the first place) and a safe place where those members will have the privacy they need. And I believe they will be reasonable. SS hasn't been a profit or interest driven organazation as far as I can see. This site really seems to believe in its values and If they wanted to found an "elite-club menber" why tell us ? They could have done it by now. This would be wrong in my opinion, but they would still have the right to do it. Honestly I felt bad after being lefted out, but looking from a detached perspective, it really makes sense to me, and I trust them not to transform this into a division. As I said before it is very unlikely that they will, or are doing, anything like that because of how they have worked to keep this site going as a free and welcoming place for everyone who needs it. now and in the past.

But wow... really wow. I have to say that (and that's why I though of this message as a reply for you mentioning this) what fixthe26 did affected me almost on a personal level. I am fully aware that they could be reading my post. And if they are, I can't stand how delusional those parents can be. To believe that someone coerced their kids to take their lives, when all I have seen in this community is support for the overwhelming majority of members, is really a far stretch from reality. We don't force anyone in anyway to do anything. And this, this is very important to understand. We will not force someone to be alive when they don't want to. There's even a support group for people who want to get better... However, in the end, their autonomy is supreme. It's their choice. Why woundn't those parents accept that their children really wanted to die ? You really think you are good parents when you force them to live a life they didn't want to live ? I see they will continue to lie to themselves that "oh no, he could not choose... he was sick". I've seen this before. I was called "sick". They called my homosexuality a "fase" and hell, if this was 60 years ago they would have made me go to the psychiatrist potentially crippling me for life with someting inhumane like shock therapy or hormonal therapy. But this wans't beacause I was sick, the truth is; a great part of mental diseases and disorders are, at its core, cultural preferences of what is considered moral and good and not some "chemical imbalance". Mecalization is a very, very serious (and profitable) problem. And it has killed many. The history of Alan Turing is a very clear exemple of how this can be devastating. But it seems these parents would be happy "helping" their children with any drug they could find forcing them to go to the psychiatrist againt their own will. I am not saying treatment doesn't work for some people. What I am criticizing is forcing people to undergo a treatment that they don't want to, under the pretense that they "are sick and can't decide for themselves". Which is a lie in most cases. This, I can sse, will be considered cruel and barbaric in the future as what happend to Turing was. As those "the gay cure" camps were considered. "you are sick and you can not decide for yourself" can't you really see how this enables the state, or anyone, to complete step over anyone's freedom ?". If someone wants to be treated, they will say so. And the truth is, your son didn't want any treatment, he wanted to die, and he was completely able to decide that for himself. It is sad that the only way you have to believe in those lies that you tell yourself, is calling your son "sick in the head" and believing that he was unable to think for himself and to make such an important decison. Or that he was so naive and easily manipulated that a bunch of strangers, just with the use of words, made him kill himself. It is really sad that you have to cripple your son's autonomy and capacity to think for himself at such a low point to not see the truth before your eyes. I knew he loved his family, as I love mine, but at the end of the day, our families should be there to support us in our choices. Chosing to die, as Schopenhauer puts it; "They tell us that suicide is the greatest act of cowardice... that suicide is wrong; when it is quite obvious that there is nothing in the world to which every man has a more unassailable title than to his own life and person" is not only a legitimate decision, but a right. An act of exercising one's autonomy if one wishes to do so. As much as I love my family, this is my decision, and it deservers respect as such.

 

[All washed up]

I'm pretty sure the post count requirement is at 200 posts, which is definitely not much and is just to make sure that the person has contributed enough to the forum.

Marquis doesn't have 200 posts, lol

 

[xLosthopex]

I can't see the subforum. Thank you for removing @hoping to lose hope my mood was always going down when seeing him/her. I'm really curious on what the requirements to join the subforum actually are to be honest...

I felt the same way about them!:(

I can't see the subforum, guess I didn't make the cut

 

[Life_and_Death]

I wish the people who didn't meet the requirements could see that it's not actually a super secret club where everyone is hanging out without them. there are only a handful of threads there, 99% of activity is still in the main forum.

it really is nothing.

i understand not feeling included but like i already said, do you have a better way to weed out the trolls? its one thing to see a problem but until someone has a better solution then theres not really any point in pointing out something everyone already knows (excuse the saying but..) youre beating a dead horse.

instead of saying thats not right thats not right then maybe come up with an idea that is right. until then this is the best weve got and honestly i dont even believe in this idea, whats stopping the trolls from temporarily behaving/lies just to gain access???

 

[VisionsOfHell]

Alright, I think we can end this discussion now since its just the same arguments being brought up over and over again.
I just want to say, once again, that I'm against this because I'm convinced it will make the forum in general worse, create more mistrust and uncertainty in the community etc. Me not being invited into the club or feeling excluded is not why I'm against this.

i already said, do you have a better way to weed out the trolls?

Marquis already said trolls are not a big problem and not the reason theyre doing this.

 

[Life_and_Death]

Marquis already said trolls are not a big problem and not the reason theyre doing this.

ok i just read that one.....i have no idea then. i am interested in the reason for this. "a safe place for older members" doesnt make much sense, ive had problems with "established members" being mean to me due to their misunderstanding and refusal to listen so this doesnt even help that.

 

[Coffeandamug]

ok i just read that one.....i have no idea then. i am interested in the reason for this. "a safe place for older members" doesnt make much sense, ive had problems with "established members" being mean to me due to their misunderstanding and refusal to listen so this doesnt even help that.

I think the main reason was what happened after the fixthe26 incident. Because they are screenshotting a lot of posts and some members need privacy. I am in favour of the idea if the requiraments are reasonable and easily attainable for people who aren't possible "pro-life lurkers". This is why I think they should be somewhat flexible. And I agree with Visions of Hell as well, this will cause distrust but we can't forget that our values are mostly not welcome in the wide-open society. And there are people really wanting to take the forum down. I wish this could be a peaceful place, but I think that fixthe26 is just the beginning. Well, maybe. The more the forum goes mainstream, more attacks from pro-lifers will come. At least I think it's wise to assume that for now.

 

[Good4Nothing]

The only mistrust and division I'm seeing is in this thread. I assure you no one in the secret forum is plotting against you.
In fact, most of the activity in there is members concerned with the points you guys are raising here. We're on your side. We've been excluded all our lives, too. We know what it feels like.

 

[Coffeandamug]

The only mistrust and division I'm seeing is in this thread. I assure you no one in the secret forum is plotting against you.
In fact, most of the activity in there is members concerned with the points you guys are raising here. We're on your side. We've been excluded all our lives, too. We know what it feels like.

I don't think you are too.I am a new member but I don't think there are reasons to believe in a "elite club member" as I pointed out before. But if I can ask for something, please tell them to think well about the requirements. I don't know how big this community is, but those requirements are something as arbitrary as a number, I can see any troll or pro-lifer entering the sanctuary. I could argue that now they will have even a bigger reason to do so. They will pretend until they get their entrence numbers because "saving lives" is a heavy excuse, even if it's a self-deceptive and egoistical lie. Especially when lives that they care about might be involved. If this is a place for those who need privacy, make it so. I don't need to be there because privacy for me is not an issue, I prefer to be exposed and to be seen as someones who believes that death is a human right. And that's why I think that the main forum is still extremely important.

 

[All washed up]

Thing is it's all a bit random.
We've been told number of posts doesn't matter too much, a lot of very long standing members aren't in.
It's nothing to do with trolls.
We've no idea how many are in.
Ultimately we are just on an anonymous suicide forum so it's not as though it's a great honour or anything to be included but I still think it could've been handled better

 

[Life_and_Death]

I think the main reason was what happened after the fixthe26 incident. Because they are screenshotting a lot of posts and some members need privacy. I am in favour of the idea if the requiraments are reasonable and easily attainable for people who aren't possible "pro-life lurkers". This is why I think they should be somewhat flexible. And I agree with Visions of Hell, this will cause distrust but we can't forget that our values are mostly not welcome in the wide-open society. And there are people really wanting to take the forum down. I wish this could be a peaceful place, but I think that fixthe26 is just the beginning. Well, maybe. The more the forum goes mainstream, more attacks from pro-lifers will come. At least I think it's wise to assume that for now.

i find this topic in general a bit controversial. i dont believe in hiding. if we hide then they win. but i also understand wanting privacy. we didnt come here looking to put our thoughts/feelings/struggles on the internet for everyone to read. we came here looking for people that understand, the internet thing is just the downfall of that, of course how else are we suppose to find each other. going back to not hiding, we also have to be careful of the steps we take doing that. we should fight back, what they are doing is wrong and no one should be silenced! of course you have the people that maybe encourage it a little too much giving the rest of us a bad rep. much like everything else this is a very fine line one has to follow. our views should be welcomed by society, we arent sitting here behind a screen saying "kill yourself, you should do it, no one likes you" what we are saying is "are you sure? well ok then... i hope you find what youre looking for" while one is encouraging the latter is understanding. the prolifers are the problem here and even though they like to think so, they cant change the dictionary.

actually, to prove my point i googled encouraging and it was only positive....but thats not true. encouraging ISNT always positive nor is it always right, its called peer pressure. that of which i can google

"a feeling that one must do the same things as other people of one's age and social group in order to be liked or respected by them"

and understanding

"the power of comprehending"

we COMPREHEND that life sucks and isnt for everyone. we COMPREHEND that some other people in this world are cruel and even though the other person is still physically living, inside they are hurt and defeated, we COMPREHEND that dealing with mental stress is really difficult (in my own personal case c/ptsd (i have both)) however this does not mean that we are encouraging it (making other members feel like they have to), i cant speak for other members but i myself like to make sure that someone is 100% sure, and that is in no way encouraging, its the exact opposite.

i understand the prolifers thoughts and feeling (in general) living is a human thing, how can one possibly want to die. but if i can understand them, why cant they understand us? it is not fair nor is it right to ask someone to conform to your ways without first understanding why the person does not. i (we?) are not asking them to conform to our ways, just for them to understand that everyone physically and emotionally feels different, just for them to understand that there are really cruel people in this world that tear others down to this point.

IM ASKING that they understand that WE (for the most part) dont actually want this, we just want the pain to stop. i cant speak for other members here but i myself will not stand down nor will i let them win. they dont have to agree, they only have to understand.

 

[Coffeandamug]

Thing is it's all a bit random.
We've been told number of posts doesn't matter too much, a lot of very long standing members aren't in.
It's nothing to do with trolls.
We've no idea how many are in.
Ultimately we are just on an anonymous suicide forum so it's not as though it's a great honour or anything to be included but I still think it could've been handled better

Yeah, I mean, I does seem a bit random and I also think it could've been dealt better. What seems to make sense for me is some place where people who seek privacy could go.far from the risk of being in a screenshot of a twitter account, or being found by a family member. This could be it, but it seems that it's not quite that ? I'll say that if it is (and it's an enormous if that I don't think is likely to happen) a try to save some of the forum because they fear a takedown, i'd be disappointed.

i find this topic in general a bit controversial. i dont believe in hiding. if we hide then they win. but i also understand wanting privacy. we didnt come here looking to put our thoughts/feelings/struggles on the internet for everyone to read. we came here looking for people that understand, the internet thing is just the downfall of that, of course how else are we suppose to find each other. going back to not hiding, we also have to be careful of the steps we take doing that. we should fight back, what they are doing is wrong and no one should be silenced! of course you have the people that maybe encourage it a little too much giving the rest of us a bad rep. much like everything else this is a very fine line one has to follow. our views should be welcomed by society, we arent sitting here behind a screen saying "kill yourself, you should do it, no one likes you" what we are saying is "are you sure? well ok then... i hope you find what youre looking for" while one is encouraging the latter is understanding. the prolifers are the problem here and even though they like to think so, they cant change the dictionary.

actually, to prove my point i googled encouraging and it was only positive....but thats not true. encouraging ISNT always positive nor is it always right, its called peer pressure. that of which i can google

"a feeling that one must do the same things as other people of one's age and social group in order to be liked or respected by them"

and understanding

"the power of comprehending"

we COMPREHEND that life sucks and isnt for everyone. we COMPREHEND that some other people in this world are cruel and even though the other person is still physically living, inside they are hurt and defeated, we COMPREHEND that dealing with mental stress is really difficult (in my own personal case c/ptsd (i have both)) however this does not mean that we are encouraging it (making other members feel like they have to), i cant speak for other members but i myself like to make sure that someone is 100% sure, and that is in no way encouraging, its the exact opposite.

i understand the prolifers thoughts and feeling (in general) living is a human thing, how can one possibly want to die. but if i can understand them, why cant they understand us? it is not fair nor is it right to ask someone to conform to your ways without first understanding why the person does not. i (we?) are not asking them to conform to our ways, just for them to understand that everyone physically and emotionally feels different, just for them to understand that there are really cruel people in this world that tear others down to this point.

IM ASKING that they understand that WE (for the most part) dont actually want this, we just want the pain to stop. i cant speak for other members here but i myself will not stand down nor will i let them win. they dont have to agree, they only have to understand.

In a nutshell, I agree. I am disappointed on the pro lifers as well. I support that we should fight for the right to die, but I also support privacy for those who want it, as you already said. Most people here are suffering and tired from all this, I woudn't want these people to have to fight to die, I just wish them a peaceful death if that is what they seek. I understand why pro lifers think the way they do, but I think they are wrong, very wrong. Regarding the sanctuary... I mean... I can see why a place of privacy would be needed so I agree for now. I just hope it doesn't became something different from a sanctuary, and I don't think it will happen.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

The only mistrust and division I'm seeing is in this thread. I assure you no one in the secret forum is plotting against you.
In fact, most of the activity in there is members concerned with the points you guys are raising here. We're on your side. We've been excluded all our lives, too. We know what it feels like.

A lot of the users don't seem to grasp that this is a privately owned forum, and not a public service. Admins can enforce whatever rules that come to their minds because they created this place and they are offering the users something free of charge. If they want to create a private subforum, they are within their rights to do so, using any criteria for admission they want to use, however arbitrary that criteria might seem. Having a certain number of posts or having been on the site for a certain amount of time are good criteria, imo.

Some users have their spouses monitoring this site, and they are relieved to finally have a space where they can talk more openly, without the fear of being sectioned, reported to the police, or having their posts screenshotted and displayed on anti-choicer's social media. That alone justifies the existence of this sub forum.

 

[Life_and_Death]

Some users have their spouses monitoring this site,

this part i can completely understand and didnt even think of.

 

[Coffeandamug]

A lot of the users don't seem to grasp that this is a privately owned forum, and not a public service. Admins can enforce whatever rules that come to their minds because they created this place and they are offering the users something free of charge. If they want to create a private subforum, they are within their rights to do so, using any criteria for admission they want to use, however arbitrary that criteria might seem. Having a certain number of posts or having been on the site for a certain amount of time are good criteria, imo.

Some users have their spouses monitoring this site, and they are relieved to finally have a space where they can talk more openly, without the fear of being sectioned, reported to the police, or having their posts screenshotted and displayed on anti-choicer's social media. That alone justifies the existence of this sub forum.

Yes! this. Agreed.

 

[Life_and_Death]

In a nutshell, I agree. I am disappointed on the pro lifers as well. I support that we should fight for the right to die, but I also support privacy for those who want it, as you already said. Most people here are suffering and tired from all this, I woudn't want these people to have to fight to die, I just wish them a peaceful death if that is what they seek. I understand why pro lifers think the way they do, but I think they are wrong, very wrong. Regarding the sanctuary... I mean... I can see why a place of privacy would be needed so I agree for now. I just hope it doesn't became something different from a sanctuary, and I don't think it will happen.

as long as no one abuses it i cant see there being a problem, i was actually thinking that maybe it should be backwards and you should have to hang out in general for a couple days and then join the rest of us, i mean i dont see why that couldnt work. most problem people get taken care of with in a few days of joining and it would keep the site mostly hidden while still being open for people to find it.

on a side note i was wondering about maybe having a gender specific sub forum that you can only see if thats what you sign in as (example id only see the female one) not to divide people or anything but maybe...here ill give a personal example

i didnt really have a mother growing up. i did but she didnt "raise" me. an example of this is in kindergarten i was at school and my first tooth was loose and i didnt know this was a thing and spent most of my day crying because of it. so maybe someone has a more personal question that they want to ask like "is my period normal" that they dont want to ask the general forum because they are scared and embarrassed to. being female i can only speak from this pov but there would be a guy one too.....as for the other people, i think that they can either join what they are changing to, maybe they have some questions like "do breasts create a problem for you" or maybe they can have their own, this is where it gets a little tricky.

also if "other people" offended you* i really didnt mean to i just wasnt sure exactly what to put there and im sorry if i offened you and i hope you can understand that isnt what i meant to do.

*you- anyone reading this

 

[All washed up]

Yeah, I mean, I does seem a bit random and I also think it could've been dealt better. What seems to make sense for me is some place where people who seek privacy could go.far from the risk of being in a screenshot of a twitter account, or being found by a family member. This could be it, but it seems that it's not quite that ? I'll say that if it is (and it's an enormous if that I don't think is likely to happen) a try to save some of the forum because they fear a takedown, i'd be disappointed.

Tbh

A lot of the users don't seem to grasp that this is a privately owned forum, and not a public service. Admins can enforce whatever rules that come to their minds because they created this place and they are offering the users something free of charge. If they want to create a private subforum, they are within their rights to do so, using any criteria for admission they want to use, however arbitrary that criteria might seem. Having a certain number of posts or having been on the site for a certain amount of time are good criteria, imo.

Some users have their spouses monitoring this site, and they are relieved to finally have a space where they can talk more openly, without the fear of being sectioned, reported to the police, or having their posts screenshotted and displayed on anti-choicer's social media. That alone justifies the existence of this sub forum.

I'm not going to get into a debate with YOU there'll only be one winner, lol

 

[x~Sophia~x]

Actually this could prevent ctb as aiming to get into the club could give people a reason to hang around now,

The pro lifers WILL be pleased

 

[FredTheCripple]

To be honest, I don't know what the exact requirements for the subforum are, but I feel like it locks out the pro-choice folks who primarily lurk.