Discussion Why do most people assume that suicide is because of lack of self worth?

[hoppybunny]

I've noticed everytime I read self help resources or anti suicide resources they always make the assumption suicide comes from a place of worthlessness.

Like "omg I'm trash and i deserve to die" when for me, while i do hate myself my reason for wanting to commit suicide is because i simply don't find value in the world and believe as a human being, with all the current technology we have, i should be living a better life.


Like i believe in the innate worth of all life and believe that society right now treats all humans as less than they deserve. And that's why i want to die.


When i had my first therapist she would make me do affirmations and such but they don't work cause at the end of the day my suicide is because of external factors. No amount of self talk or self love will get me a job or independence.

So it's just so annoying whenever i open up or try to get help and all i hear is "just know you're loved"

Like omg that's nice and all but I'm still unemployed. I have a very loving family. Even my parents that are terrible and the cause of most of my sadness are still good abd responsible parents for the most part and are just verbally and emotionally abusive on occasion. So like i definitely am not lacking in love and self worth.

I just don't like being alive.

 

[Dejected 55]

Whenever I was in the hospital and had to talk to therapists... they never know how to respond to me when I tell them that I like the person that I am... I'm just depressed because I don't have connections and have never had a romantic relationship to build and share a life with... all their "support" is geared for people who don't like themselves, so they don't know what to do with me.

 

[xax]

i personally have too much self worth

 

[Bishop]

i personally have too much self worth

Ditto

 

[Hollowman]

Because most people are brainwashed idiots.

 

[hurts2b-old]

It's an extension of the assumption that suicide is a mental illness issue only, and that being suicidal means you have a biological problem, rather than a social one. People don't want to think about it as a social problem, because then they might also have to think about their own role in all this.

 

[hoppybunny]

Whenever I was in the hospital and had to talk to therapists... they never know how to respond to me when I tell them that I like the person that I am... I'm just depressed because I don't have connections and have never had a romantic relationship to build and share a life with... all their "support" is geared for people who don't like themselves, so they don't know what to do with me.

Aww sorry they couldn't help you.

I think a lot of them think if they can't solve your problem immediately or in 10 theraoy sessions. Since they think, well we can't give u a partner so there's nothing they can do.

i personally have too much self worth

I have the same issue lol.

It's an extension of the assumption that suicide is a mental illness issue only, and that being suicidal means you have a biological problem, rather than a social one. People don't want to think about it as a social problem, because then they might also have to think about their own role in all this.

Definitely. That's why I hate the phrase permanent solution to temporary problem cause last time i checked it takes like 200 years for any significant change to happen in society so actually this is a permanent problem from my perspective

 

[iguazo falls]

thats honestly a pretty good observation. "self worth" was something that was brought up in treatment but saying affirmations doesn't really change how others treat you. my parents were all shocked i felt worthless but of course i would feel worthless if it was empathized to me that i did not fit in and that i was not what my parents wanted. you can say "you have worth" but it doesn't change the systems of oppression or other people's opinions, and it turns out having self worth is quite inherently rebellious for a lot of people.

i struggle with self worth alot, but i found that even when i am feeling worthy, that identity doesn't align with typical "treatment goals" and i still would like to die. because yeah, you realise that you should be treated better, and you recognise you are feeling upset for a reason that is beyond not loving yourself enough. i think anger is overlooked in healing/recovery, yet feeling sorry for yourself and angry about it has really helped me in finding tangible solutions to some of my problems because i actually allowed myself to say "wow im in pain and i deserve help and resources". as opposed to waiting for some detached authority to type out something confirming vaguely i am not doing ok, and not even help me, because that is just what we are told to do when we are struggling (or the alternative which is advocating you do something, but without ever feeling for yourself which just makes you more resentful and you pass on that messages to others).

credit to DBT, it does kind of touch on this kind of topic with self-validation, but i also feel if someone is paying $160 - $280 bucks an hour, then all therapists should be equipped with proper practical resources that can help others. i've wasted so much time with therapists and medication when they could have just sent me to the relevant peer support program, where the person has been through what i have, and can give solid advice and solidarity, opposed to someone mystifying my depression in a shroud of "chemical imbalance". now i'm an adult i can just go to google and call up every place i can, but as a kid it really fucking sucked and no "positivity" could fix it.

 

[hoppybunny]

thats honestly a pretty good observation. "self worth" was something that was brought up in treatment but saying affirmations doesn't really change how others treat you. my parents were all shocked i felt worthless but of course i would feel worthless if it was empathized to me that i did not fit in and that i was not what my parents wanted. you can say "you have worth" but it doesn't change the systems of oppression or other people's opinions, and it turns out having self worth is quite inherently rebellious for a lot of people.

i struggle with self worth alot, but i found that even when i am feeling worthy, that identity doesn't align with typical "treatment goals" and i still would like to die. because yeah, you realise that you should be treated better, and you recognise you are feeling upset for a reason that is beyond not loving yourself enough. i think anger is overlooked in healing/recovery, yet feeling sorry for yourself and angry about it has really helped me in finding tangible solutions to some of my problems because i actually allowed myself to say "wow im in pain and i deserve help and resources". as opposed to waiting for some detached authority to type out something confirming vaguely i am not doing ok, and not even help me, because that is just what we are told to do when we are struggling (or the alternative which is advocating you do something, but without ever feeling for yourself which just makes you more resentful and you pass on that messages to others).

credit to DBT, it does kind of touch on this kind of topic with self-validation, but i also feel if someone is paying $160 - $280 bucks an hour, then all therapists should be equipped with proper practical resources that can help others. i've wasted so much time with therapists and medication when they could have just sent me to the relevant peer support program, where the person has been through what i have, and can give solid advice and solidarity, opposed to someone mystifying my depression in a shroud of "chemical imbalance". now i'm an adult i can just go to google and call up every place i can, but as a kid it really fucking sucked and no "positivity" could fix it.

Thank you for your insight.

Like my parents especially like to tell me i have to choose to be happy and it is my fault that i am unhappy. Simultaneously they don't allow me to eat certain foods. Yell at me for spending my own money. Berate me for my hobbies and how i look.

No one acknowledges that you're environment can fuck up your head at all. There's only so much positivity you can use to shield yourself from a bad situation.

I'm so glad that you were able to find resources that actually helped you!!! I hope things go well for you in everything you do. Or at least most things.

 

[never mind me]

Thank you for your insight.

Like my parents especially like to tell me i have to choose to be happy and it is my fault that i am unhappy. Simultaneously they don't allow me to eat certain foods. Yell at me for spending my own money. Berate me for my hobbies and how i look.

No one acknowledges that you're environment can fuck up your head at all. There's only so much positivity you can use to shield yourself from a bad situation.

I'm so glad that you were able to find resources that actually helped you!!! I hope things go well for you in everything you do. Or at least most things.

I'm sorry for the situation you are in living with parents who treat you in such a bad way. If at all possible try to move out. Depending on the country you live in there might be a chance to claim welfare, if you can't find a job, so you get a chance to live by yourself. I could imagine that you would feel a lot better eventually, if you manage to live on your own and restrict the amount of contact you have with your parents, if they continue to treat you badly.

 

[hoppybunny]

I'm sorry for the situation you are in living with parents who treat you in such a bad way. If at all possible try to move out. Depending on the country you live in there might be a chance to claim welfare, if you can't find a job, so you get a chance to live by yourself. I could imagine that you would feel a lot better eventually, if you manage to live on your own and restrict the amount of contact you have with your parents, if they continue to treat you badly.

Thank you for your encouragement. Because of my immigration situation i can't just leave unfortunately. So I'm working really hard to get a job.im 100% sure once i get independence I'll be way happier. Frankly my parents attitude s don't even bkther me anymore cause i know they won't change. It's really the lack of independence and freedom that is slowly killing me. If i was independent, i could simply not be arkund my parenrs when they berate me. I could stay home when i want, sleep whe. I want, eat what i want and dress how i want. Buy what i want. And if I'm up for it maybe date someone.

That's really all i want in life.

 

[Lamentice]

I absolutely already love myself, there's like 2 split versions of myself: me, in my body, day-to-day, and then this disembodied voice (that's also just me) that calms me down, calls myself loving pet names, is very sweet & forgiving & unconditionally kind to me, and far more positive and optimistic than I. Maybe makes me sound crazy, but also maybe I am lol. Anyway, that version of me that is pretty much my guiding subconscious as I see it is like the epitome of unconditional self love. So genuinely hear ya on this.

A lot of people are suicidal due to self loathing (..more of a symptom than a cause though) and the MH industry and its "professionals" can't even help them, it's all a crapshoot of mega bullshit.

I honestly don't believe I am lovable to other people, but I do love & like myself, so I don't even know what that's categorized as anyway.

 

[enjoytheride]

It's an extension of the assumption that suicide is a mental illness issue only, and that being suicidal means you have a biological problem, rather than a social one. People don't want to think about it as a social problem, because then they might also have to think about their own role in all this.

This is a very good point. Suicide is the first social phenomenon studied in a scientific way by the emerging science of Sociology, by Emile Durkheim (second after Masaryk). Although some flaws in Durkheim's study have been pointed out, the study is still considered for the most part scientifically valid. If anyone is curious, they can read more here.

I totally understand the author of this thread. I do feel that many of my feelings of misery are motivated by the social environment around me, the way society is organised, and also with many people being needlessly cruel and egotistic, incapable of reciprocity and unwilling to give others a break from time to time. At the same time, social media seems to have distanced people from genuine socialising and brought forward a more superfluous conception of human connection and communication. That makes it especially harder for people who are more introverted to make friends in real life. Or perhaps I am wrong.

 

[weishenme]

I think that one of the reasons people are still living is because of inercia cs I look around and people are so miserable they look that they will be happier if they are not here, but that animal instincts forces them to be alive or just the fear of death but that doesn't mean that they want to truly live. I

 

[Forever Sleep]

I also get the sense they assume suicidal thoughts are always intrusive. When, they can actually be the result of rationally feeling we want out of a rigged system. And, even a source of comfort- if we see it as a way to escape suffering.

 

[hoppybunny]

I absolutely already love myself, there's like 2 split versions of myself: me, in my body, day-to-day, and then this disembodied voice (that's also just me) that calms me down, calls myself loving pet names, is very sweet & forgiving & unconditionally kind to me, and far more positive and optimistic than I. Maybe makes me sound crazy, but also maybe I am lol. Anyway, that version of me that is pretty much my guiding subconscious as I see it is like the epitome of unconditional self love. So genuinely hear ya on this.

A lot of people are suicidal due to self loathing (..more of a symptom than a cause though) and the MH industry and its "professionals" can't even help them, it's all a crapshoot of mega bullshit.

I honestly don't believe I am lovable to other people, but I do love & like myself, so I don't even know what that's categorized as anyway.

I wouldn't say this is a mismatch at all. Cause it depends on why ppl don't like you. Like if u know u have a personality that others don't like that won't change how much you like yourself. Others opinions just don't matter. But I'm happy u love urself. That's very sweet.

This is a very good point. Suicide is the first social phenomenon studied in a scientific way by the emerging science of Sociology, by Emile Durkheim (second after Masaryk). Although some flaws in Durkheim's study have been pointed out, the study is still considered for the most part scientifically valid. If anyone is curious, they can read more here.

I totally understand the author of this thread. I do feel that many of my feelings of misery are motivated by the social environment around me, the way society is organised, and also with many people being needlessly cruel and egotistic, incapable of reciprocity and unwilling to give others a break from time to time. At the same time, social media seems to have distanced people from genuine socialising and brought forward a more superfluous conception of human connection and communication. That makes it especially harder for people who are more introverted to make friends in real life. Or perhaps I am wrong.

I think you're absolutely correct. Social media and just greed in general has killed how people used to socialize. Back in the day people could meet new ppl by just hanging around. In the us for instance this is considered loitering and now a crime. And now ppl who just chill outside are treated as suspicious because everyone must have somewhere to go or places to be. Even though as humans we have the right to just sit outside and do nothing.

The other method was we meet through social events but social media has caused ppl to treat every social gathering like it has to be picture perfect and throwing events has become more and more expensive. Like if you look up what a "wedding tax" is youll be amazed by how greedy people are to purposely charge far more than they usually do for the same service simply becauae it is a wedding.

Like my parents met at a wedding and now because of how expensive weddings are i will never get a chance to go to a wedding where everyone there isn't already related to me.

The internet has also just provided people with artificial forms of connection. When we scroll online and look at other ppls posts we form some kind of relationships where we feel like we know these influencers and they are our friends but in reality we don't. We don't know anyone online and sp isolated becomes worse when you stop using it.

I also get the sense they assume suicidal thoughts are always intrusive. When, they can actually be the result of rationally feeling we want out of a rigged system. And, even a source of comfort- if we see it as a way to escape suffering.

The idea that there's no way someone would willingly want to die is just so foreign to them

 

[ZwartHartje]

Lack of self-worth, sorry but frankly that's stupid and absurd as a reason for suicide to me, I can't imagine why people would think that. I mean, there may be some who kill themselves because they do hate themselves, but I think that's probably a small minority of suicides.

When you agree to have a vet put your beloved pet down, would that be because you now consider your pet worthless because of their poor health, old age, and/or terminal condition? No, it's usually done as an act of mercy, to relieve the poor creature from further pain and suffering.

So many people on this forum have been asking specifically for painless ways to end their lives. If they hated themselves so much and wanted to punish themselves for their "unworthiness", wouldn't they want just the opposite?
I wish for my death as an act of mercy to myself, and I don't think I'm alone in this. Most people want to die in order to spare themselves any further pain and suffering.

 

[fadedghost]

I've noticed everytime I read self help resources or anti suicide resources they always make the assumption suicide comes from a place of worthlessness.

Like "omg I'm trash and i deserve to die" when for me, while i do hate myself my reason for wanting to commit suicide is because i simply don't find value in the world and believe as a human being, with all the current technology we have, i should be living a better life.


Like i believe in the innate worth of all life and believe that society right now treats all humans as less than they deserve. And that's why i want to die.


When i had my first therapist she would make me do affirmations and such but they don't work cause at the end of the day my suicide is because of external factors. No amount of self talk or self love will get me a job or independence.

So it's just so annoying whenever i open up or try to get help and all i hear is "just know you're loved"

Like omg that's nice and all but I'm still unemployed. I have a very loving family. Even my parents that are terrible and the cause of most of my sadness are still good abd responsible parents for the most part and are just verbally and emotionally abusive on occasion. So like i definitely am not lacking in love and self worth.

I just don't like being alive.

It's because "humanity is more tolerable if you call 988, get involuntary hospitalized and charged $30,000, get forcibly get put on brain-numbing psychiatric medication to stop feeling badly about being treated like shit by most of humanity, and get forced to agree or pretend to agree to take the medication in order to be released" is NOT a good slogan... but "Call 988! You matter and are worth it!" is.

We are all here for different reasons though. Some of us have terminal illnesses, some of us have lost people we care about and don't want to continue on, some of us are not romantically successful and don't want to live life alone, some of us have permanent medical issues that make life unenjoyable, some of us don't feel like working a demeaning job for low wages is worth it. A lot of our reasons for many on here aren't just due to temporary crisis. But also, some people on this forum who are suicidal do end up getting better, and it's important to remember that.

 

[judestfrancis]

A lot of the times, i think it's the (albeit minimal) data that they have. they know that if they hone in on the group who struggle with self worth in their SI, then they can save them. Its easy to convince someone who just needs a pep talk, its much harder to convince someone whose in a complicated situation that requires a complete upheaval of their life.
If they can convince the middle class 45 year old Gary with 2.5 kids, a picket fence, and a wife who cooks for him to live, or the 14 year old pubescent Laura who's having a bit of trouble at school, then they feel its a job well done. If your life is unstable though, if you have any sort of basal need insecurity, they dont want to fix that. Its cheap if someone else has to foot the bill, its expensive if the government has to do the same.

 

[hoppybunny]

It's because "humanity is more tolerable if you call 988, get involuntary hospitalized and charged $30,000, get forcibly get put on brain-numbing psychiatric medication to stop feeling badly about being treated like shit by most of humanity, and get forced to agree or pretend to agree to take the medication in order to be released" is NOT a good slogan... but "Call 988! You matter and are worth it!" is.

We are all here for different reasons though. Some of us have terminal illnesses, some of us have lost people we care about and don't want to continue on, some of us are not romantically successful and don't want to live life alone, some of us have permanent medical issues that make life unenjoyable, some of us don't feel like working a demeaning job for low wages is worth it. A lot of our reasons for many on here aren't just due to temporary crisis. But also, some people on this forum who are suicidal do end up getting better, and it's important to remember that.

Hoping to be in the last category. But the economy and my parents are testing my resilience.

 

[byec560]

I've noticed everytime I read self help resources or anti suicide resources they always make the assumption suicide comes from a place of worthlessness.

Like "omg I'm trash and i deserve to die" when for me, while i do hate myself my reason for wanting to commit suicide is because i simply don't find value in the world and believe as a human being, with all the current technology we have, i should be living a better life.


Like i believe in the innate worth of all life and believe that society right now treats all humans as less than they deserve. And that's why i want to die.


When i had my first therapist she would make me do affirmations and such but they don't work cause at the end of the day my suicide is because of external factors. No amount of self talk or self love will get me a job or independence.

So it's just so annoying whenever i open up or try to get help and all i hear is "just know you're loved"

Like omg that's nice and all but I'm still unemployed. I have a very loving family. Even my parents that are terrible and the cause of most of my sadness are still good abd responsible parents for the most part and are just verbally and emotionally abusive on occasion. So like i definitely am not lacking in love and self worth.

I just don't like being alive.

People just don't get it because if they know you're depressed or suicidal they treat you as a template of what they think a depressed person is instead of as an individual with their own thoughts and feelings. I was talking to a dude recently. I don't like opening up much, but it seemed like he was really enjoying the sound of his own voice so I told him enough about myself to keep him going. I would say something about my thought process and he would just constantly loop these therapy platitudes about self-acceptance and taking responsibility for yourself, etc. Once he established these points he would just be a broken record and waffle the same points around for like 5 minutes. I would respond "In my case, I think it's a bit different because..." and talk about how my self worth is often fine, and how I just don't know what it would mean to improve in a world that seems kinda fucked, but then he would always cycle to the same points and like repeat them over and over again for five more minutes. I honestly didn't really expect his advice to help, but if I did I imagine it would be quite maddening. Sometimes when I criticize the unhealthy mindsets of other people in front of my friends who know a bit about my history they will literally scoff or laugh at me, but they seem to be just assuming that I would think that way instead of asking me or describing the similarities they see. Truly bizarre imo.

 

[airconditionedtodie]

Exactly lol. I hate people's generic advices so much. I'm a narcissist and I want to die at my peak. What I fear the most is being old, and disabled thus won't be able to ctb or experience immense pain before eventually passing. Also, nothing in this world interests me anymore like if you tell me to live another 10 years and you would give me 1 billion dollars, without the slightest doubt I would refuse. Since I was child, I've always wanted to die before turning 30, and I'm just keeping that promise to the young me.

Altho, as a very curious human being I really wanted to know what comes after death. The answer excites me as that's solving one of the mysteries of the universe.

 

[hoppybunny]

People just don't get it because if they know you're depressed or suicidal they treat you as a template of what they think a depressed person is instead of as an individual with their own thoughts and feelings. I was talking to a dude recently. I don't like opening up much, but it seemed like he was really enjoying the sound of his own voice so I told him enough about myself to keep him going. I would say something about my thought process and he would just constantly loop these therapy platitudes about self-acceptance and taking responsibility for yourself, etc. Once he established these points he would just be a broken record and waffle the same points around for like 5 minutes. I would respond "In my case, I think it's a bit different because..." and talk about how my self worth is often fine, and how I just don't know what it would mean to improve in a world that seems kinda fucked, but then he would always cycle to the same points and like repeat them over and over again for five more minutes. I honestly didn't really expect his advice to help, but if I did I imagine it would be quite maddening. Sometimes when I criticize the unhealthy mindsets of other people in front of my friends who know a bit about my history they will literally scoff or laugh at me, but they seem to be just assuming that I would think that way instead of asking me or describing the similarities they see. Truly bizarre imo.

What I've learned is that most ppl don't give a shit about the state of the world if it's working for them.

I personally wouldn't say i care about homeless ppl, however i don't believe homelessness, starving etc should exist with our current technology and knowledge as humans. So when i say this world is fucked cause there shouldn't be homeless ppl when there are ppl with 10, 20 or 10p houses, i get laughed at. Cause why do you care!?@? Ur not homeless?!?

But also most ppl are one bad accident away from being homeless or diabled!!! Like heaven forbid i wanna make sure my life isn't double fucked if that happens to me.

Like God forbid that happens to me but still.

So many selfish people in the world

 

[byec560]

Exactly lol. I hate people's generic advices so much. I'm a narcissist and I want to die at my peak. What I fear the most is being old, and disabled thus won't be able to ctb or experience immense pain before eventually passing. Also, nothing in this world interests me anymore like if you tell me to live another 10 years and you would give me 1 billion dollars, without the slightest doubt I would refuse. Since I was child, I've always wanted to die before turning 30, and I'm just keeping that promise to the young me.

Altho, as a very curious human being I really wanted to know what comes after death. The answer excites me as that's solving one of the mysteries of the universe.

What do you want to peak at? Intellect, physical appearance, etc.? I think realistically you could continue self improving to higher heights at most things by continuing to stay alive (provided you don't get really old and have your body break down, get dementia, etc.).

 

[3shells]

>my parents are just verbally and emotionally abusive on occasion

Yeah idk about that one chief. I feel like if your parents treat you like that then you haven't been properly loved.

 

[hoppybunny]

>my parents are just verbally and emotionally abusive on occasion

Yeah idk about that one chief. I feel like if your parents treat you like that then you haven't been properly loved.

They provide the bare necessecities and are nice when they're in a good mood. That's why I don't fully hate them. But I have very loving and caring siblings and two amazing friends, that's why I'm loved. And how my siblings and friends treat me allow me to know that I deserve to be treated better than my parents.

That's what I was trying to say but I forget not everyone has the same context as me when i vent or complain.

I hope once I move out, I can enjoy life a bit more. Unemployment and lack of indepedence are the main cause of my suicidal ideation. Following that is just that I hate society and how it operates. I just don't like how I can live and be fine knowing that there are people starving and we have the technology and resources to prevent it.

 

[Celerity]

I mean, self-hatred is a big contributor to suicidal ideation. If you think you are incapable of building a better life, that you are unlovable, or that you deserve to die, thoughts of suicide naturally follow. I first contemplated suicide when I was 12 years old, and self-hatred was at the core of it. It continued to be the primary concern for over a decade.

At some point, I realized I was no better or worse than anyone else. Suicide then became as it is for you - a way out.

The problem is that people want to oversimplify everything - and especially things that frighten them like suicide does. People have diverse reasons for killing themselves, but you can't offer a single cure for that or put that in a slick slogan, so throw-away statements like "You are loved" win the day.