Discussion What is the point in being male anymore?

[ChildrensITV]

Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

Sexual activity among young American men has declined sharply since 2000, with nearly a third reporting no sex with a partner in the prior year, according to a survey study published on Friday that suggests social media and electronic gaming might be filling the void.

www.reuters.com

No girlfriend if you're not goodlooking. With the growth of social media and online-dating, women are flooded with options of men. In many cases, it makes women pickier and pick the top-tier men, but in a growing number of cases, women face choice paralysis because of overchoice and end up just hanging out with girlfriends instead.

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www.howwe.ug

You can't get or at least keep a girlfriend and build a home if you're broke. You need to be a provider. Women can make their own money so you need to earn a substantial amount in order to match what they can do for themselves. No man ever said: "I can't date her cuz she's just a basic office-worker", "...cuz she doesn't drive", "...cuz she lives with her parents", "...cuz she doesn't earn enough".

But at least you can go work in STEM, right? You can become of value to yourself through achievement and self-actualization, right?

ChatGPT may be coming for our jobs. Here are the 10 roles that AI is most likely to replace.

It's getting clearer that AI like ChatGPT could displace white-collar workers the most. Here are the positions that could see the biggest change.

www.businessinsider.com

There is increasingly no need for men on earth. We can safely stop reproducing men and clone women instead. Why spawn more men to just be involuntarily celibate and AI-replaced jobless depressed NEETs with no purpose? We will still need SOME men to keep factories and some tech working, but for the mostpart, we won't need men. Aren't men toxic anyway? Female-only carriages on trains won't be needed anymore (See some countries like India). No more Me-Too movement. Men are attracted to signs of youth and fertility which is just creepy to people. Men are always mansplaining, manspreading and turning on the airconditioning. We bald early and are pigs. TV depicts as us Homer Simpson.

Women will be happier without men.

Women are happier without children or a spouse, says happiness expert

Behavioural scientist Paul Dolan says traditional markers of success no longer apply

www.theguardian.com

Men's access to euthanasia should be MANDATORY.

 

[lukas19]

fuck bitches get money

Convert to Islam!

 

[ChildrensITV]

fuck bitches get money

I can't do either. Also, I didn't want to "fuck bitches". I wanted to love a girlfriend, but that's how stupid and beta I am. Also, I can't get money cuz I am too low IQ and too depressed to be motivated to do anything.

 

[Roseate]

it is creepy to be attracted to young women because there is an obvious age difference and no, they aren't mature. I hate that excuse because I rarely meet a young women my age that is actually mature which then brings the question to mind what does a grown men want with an immature women other than to manipulate them? And that is indeed why an older men would, aside from being a plain creep. Secondly, the pressure for a women is high and men have had so many years to advance unlike women. If a women can honestly be on top then why accept mediocre from a men that had years in advancement on her? We have to remember women couldn't vote or work until couple years ago. And honestly sex is not important. We have to remember that sex and intimacy are NOT the same things. Humans want intimacy. Even need intimacy but sex is not a necessity. And how I see men have it so much better. Aside from the pressure to be the provider and not feel. But all of that stems from misogyny which I feel was a problem created by men. Men love to complain but actively do nothing to create a solution and I don't understand that. The world isn't tough because you can't have sex. There are actual problems and that's not one of them.

 

[Homo erectus]

Perhaps the only reason is, genetically male is xy, female is xx. They can possibly make xx from xy, but more complicated to make a y from scratch to form a male.

 

[ChildrensITV]

Perhaps the only reason is, genetically male is xy, female is xx. They can possibly make xx from xy, but more complicated to make a y from scratch to form a male.

Yes, but we don't need men. Most women would be happier if they had to interact with us less. They can tolerate us at work maybe but they'd rather not have to deal with us in other spheres. How many women pretend to read books or wear sunglasses on the train to avoid men's gaze?

 

[enviro400mmc]

At risk of parroting a similar discussion in a different subforum with the same people:

Arguing who suffers more is such a pointless and destructive thing to do. We would all be so much happier if we learned a bit of empathy.

 

[Roseate]

Yes, but we don't need men. Most women would be happier if they had to interact with us less. They can tolerate us at work maybe but they'd rather not have to deal with us in other spheres. How many women pretend to read books or wear sunglasses on the train to avoid men's gaze?

The reason for that is because men always want something from us. They always want to sexualize us. Most don't respect us. And we would rather not deal with their misogyny. Now when a guy is authentic and a decent being then they get a different reaction. Maybe it's your approach. Either way men aren't the victim in this scenario.

 

[resolutory]

it is creepy to be attracted to young women because there is an obvious age difference and no, they aren't mature. I hate that excuse because I rarely meet a young women my age that is actually mature which then brings the question to mind what does a grown men want with an immature women other than to manipulate them? And that is indeed why an older men would, aside from being a plain creep. Secondly, the pressure for a women is high and men have had so many years to advance unlike women. If a women can honestly be on top then why accept mediocre from a men that had years in advancement on her? We have to remember women couldn't vote or work until couple years ago. And honestly sex is not important. We have to remember that sex and intimacy are NOT the same things. Humans want intimacy. Even need intimacy but sex is not a necessity. And how I see men have it so much better. Aside from the pressure to be the provider and not feel. But all of that stems from misogyny which I feel was a problem created by men. Men love to complain but actively do nothing to create a solution and I don't understand that. The world isn't tough because you can't have sex. There are actual problems and that's not one of them.

Once again, generalizing massively. There's so much misandry on this site, it makes me sick. You literaly

 

[orca87]

Isn't all that we – both men and women – are looking for someone who accepts us, makes us feel better and who we ourselves look up to? There are so many factors that contribute to how someone feels around another person. None of the obvious, like looks, status, or money, will ever suffice. They're door openers, probably.

It's just hard to find a person that pushes all (or most) of our buttons. Hence, the struggle.

 

[kadjflakflajlk]

it is creepy to be attracted to young women because there is an obvious age difference and no, they aren't mature. I hate that excuse because I rarely meet a young women my age that is actually mature which then brings the question to mind what does a grown men want with an immature women other than to manipulate them? And that is indeed why an older men would, aside from being a plain creep. Secondly, the pressure for a women is high and men have had so many years to advance unlike women. If a women can honestly be on top then why accept mediocre from a men that had years in advancement on her? We have to remember women couldn't vote or work until couple years ago. And honestly sex is not important. We have to remember that sex and intimacy are NOT the same things. Humans want intimacy. Even need intimacy but sex is not a necessity. And how I see men have it so much better. Aside from the pressure to be the provider and not feel. But all of that stems from misogyny which I feel was a problem created by men. Men love to complain but actively do nothing to create a solution and I don't understand that. The world isn't tough because you can't have sex. There are actual problems and that's not one of them.

why are you talking about men being attracted to younger women? did i miss something in OPs post? was it in one of the links?

 

[Lxions]

This feels very r/Niceguys and incel.. This whole thread.

 

[stermc]

The only thing that is important about being a male is having sex? Man, you guys need to grow up. You are all so imature. Sex is not everything in this life. That's why you can't approach women and actually make them interested in you.

You are all so misogynistic and have no idea of it. Seriously, you guys need to start studying some shit to understand how and why things work the way they do. I deeply recommend you read some Angela Davis and Simone de Beauvoir so you can understand how this civilization has treated us and how we are finally starting to move forward, while you all are just complaining about lack of sex. We do not own you sex.

It's becoming more obvious you hate women and we are not about to stop our development to let you guys catch up.

Stop obsessing about sex, women and rejection and start thinking about what you can do to be a better person.

Women are not rejecting you because you are ugly or poor. We are just not accepting less than we deserve anymore.

We are trying to break the system that has been holding us down forever, while you all are still blaming us for some nonsense shit.

And just to be clear, you say you want to "love a girlfriend" and not "fuck bitches" but I am pretty sure you can't get a girlfriend because the way you think SCARES us. I am honestly scared of men.

 

[ChildrensITV]

At risk of parroting a similar discussion in a different subforum with the same people:

Arguing who suffers more is such a pointless and destructive thing to do. We would all be so much happier if we learned a bit of empathy.

I wasn't saying who suffers more. I didn't do an comparison at all. I just posted links to evidence that men are an outdated concept or at least less-needed demographic now.

 

[Shy_Shay]

this discussion is even need it, i don't really understand this incels thing or the Red pill, i just think man are becoming too much engrossed in this idea that they are still the most important thing in a society, i am kind tired of seeing everything being about man this man that, woman are actually gaining traction in things, but mostly in the wrong place or maybe i'm wrong about all this and just saying shit, whatever you want, can't say i know how it is outside my country anyway... i'm leave you all to that and to simplify: "i just hate the Male gender in general"

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

Hmm. I'm sort of on the fence; of course filing all this stuff under misogyny is the easiest and most socially acceptable route, but it doesn't diminish the biological need. It's pretty demeaning how some of the most fundamental male needs are reduced to being r/niceguy contenders. It's obvious men and women are wired differently, and reading some book by *insert pretentious name here* isn't going to eliminate that.

OP didn't explicitly state he believes he is owed sex, I don't think many men genuinely believe they are. The most extreme reactions to posts like this will come from women who have been hurt - which is understandable, but by the same token it's not fair to say "you're a pig, you're immature, etc." That's vengence-based rhetoric.

That's not so say there aren't men who are absolute animals. Of course there are. But we must also acknowledge that intimacy and sex are important to many people, and there are a lot of sex-starved men out there.

In general I think it's best not to view this issue as black and white, and we certainly shouldn't demonize men for expressing their frustrations.

 

[enviro400mmc]

This feels very r/Niceguys and incel.. This whole thread.

Never seen or heard of r/Niceguys until now... Wish it had have stayed that way lol

 

[Roseate]

Hmm. I'm sort of on the fence; of course filing all this stuff under misogyny is the easiest and most socially acceptable route, but it doesn't diminish the biological need. It's pretty demeaning how some of the most fundamental male needs are reduced to being r/niceguy contenders. It's obvious men and women are wired differently, and reading some book by *insert pretentious name here* isn't going to eliminate that.

OP didn't explicitly state he believes he is owed sex, I don't think many men genuinely believe they are. The most extreme reactions to posts like this will come from women who have been hurt - which is understandable, but by the same token it's not fair to say "you're a pig, you're immature, etc." That's vengence-based rhetoric.

That's not so say there aren't men who are absolute animals. Of course there are. But we must also acknowledge that intimacy and sex are important to many people, and there are a lot of sex-starved men out there.

In general I think it's best not to view this issue as black and white, and we certainly shouldn't demonize men for expressing their frustrations.

Why is it that when a women acknowledges something people reduce it to them being hurt? Do you really believe women don't crave intimacy too? I would say I've never personally been hurt by men. I have never been in a relationship and yes, humans crave intimacy but to victimize oneself because of a lack of is kind of toxic within itself. And a person doesn't have to THINK they are owed something for them to believe it, it's all in how you talk, how you act and etc. The words you say or how you even act shows the entitlement. And honestly this kind of things isn't apparent or obvious outside of first world or second world country. In third world countries, this wouldn't even be a conversation which in my opinion shows the privilege itself because in other world, there are bigger concerns than a relationship and there isn't a huge amount of men complaining like they do especially in the states.

 

[stermc]

But we must also acknowledge that intimacy and sex are important to many people, and there are a lot of sex-starved men out there.

Of course sex and intimacy are important, to both men and women. The problem is that guys are always blaming us because they don't have sex. The thing is: why are they not having sex? They usually say it's because women just care about appearance, wealth, status and etc. This is certainly a way of diminishing us, as if we were shallow bitches who just care about money and good looking man. This is misogyny.
Instead of doing this, men should start asking themselves why the hell they are not getting women's attention. And as I said before, I am pretty sure it has a lot to do with fear.
And I am not saying this because my heart is broken and I have had bad experiences with men (and I have had lots of them). I am saying this because guys are looking at the wrong direction, blaming us for choosing to be alone.
To be honest, I couldn't care less about money and appearance. I care about character, personality, values. But it's not easy to find a man who actually respect us or even gives a shit about what we think. They all just be treating us as a piece of meat, a way to get sex.
So yes, being alone is way better than having to be treated like this.
I do need sex, but I surely do not need men.

 

[Roseate]

Of course sex and intimacy are important, to both men and women. The problem is that guys are always blaming us because they don't have sex. The thing is: why are they not having sex? They usually say it's because women just care about appearance, wealth, status and etc. This is certainly a way of diminishing us, as if we are shallow bitches who just care about money and good looking man. This is misogyny.
Instead of doing this, men should start asking themselves why the hell they are not getting women's attention. And as I said before, I am pretty sure it has a lot to do with fear.
And I am not saying this because my heart is broken and I have had bad experiences with men (and I have had lots of them). I am saying this because guys are looking at the wrong direction, blaming us for choosing to be alone.
To be honest, I couldn't care less about money and appearance. I care about character, personality, values. But it's not easy to find a man who actually respect us or even gives a shit about what we think. They all just be treating us as a piece of meat, a way to get sex.
So yes, being alone is way better than having to be treated like this.
I do need sex, but I surely do not need men.

I would also like to add more. It's fear AND insecurity/low self-esteem. There are PLENTY of men out here with confidence who can get girls and sex anytime they want even tho they are low quality with nothing to offer. And it's approach. Women don't like to be approached any kind of way. And also knowing the right time to approach which means learning to read people body language.

 

[ChildrensITV]

The only thing that is important about being a male is having sex?

I didn't say sex. Why are you strawmanning me? I was talking about relationships. Since a man and a woman being in a relationship has gotten us from the start of earth to this point here - and I can say without knowing you that you are the product of a man and a woman - then I guess we have evolved to yearn that bond.

Man, you guys need to grow up. You are all so imature. Sex is not everything in this life.

Again, I didn't mention sex. If I could date a woman I loved and NOT have sex, I would pick that over living an empty life of remembering my childhood, playing videogames and talking to other men.

That's why you can't approach women and actually make them interested in you.

The classic bluepilled horsesh-- line that men get forcefed: "Women don't like you cuz they can see your true horrible intentions and heart, but when they date a tall goodlooking thug who beats the living shit out of them, well that's cuz he had a good personality!"

You are all so misogynistic and have no idea of it. Seriously, you guys need to start studying some shit to understand how and why things work the way they do. I deeply recommend you read some Angela Davis and Simone de Beauvoir so you can understand how this civilization has treated us and how we are finally starting to move forward, while you all are just complaining about lack of sex. We do not own you sex.

Simone De Beauvoix?! So full Gender Studies mode?

Who said women owe men sex? I said women can do without men. How does that suggest that men are owed sex?

It's becoming more obvious you hate women and we are not about to stop our development to let you guys catch up.

Stop obsessing about sex, women and rejection and start thinking about what you can do to be a better person.

Women are not rejecting you because you are ugly or poor. We are just not accepting less than we deserve anymore.

We are trying to break the system that has been holding us down forever, while you all are still blaming us for some nonsense shit.

I was literally told that I would not make a good provider because of my lack of money.

I don't hate women at all. Everything that men and women do is cuz of their biological imperative plus some cultural influence (religion, technology). It is just how things are. I am not interested in holding women down or anything.

The reason for that is because men always want something from us. They always want to sexualize us. Most don't respect us. And we would rather not deal with their misogyny. Now when a guy is authentic and a decent being then they get a different reaction. Maybe it's your approach. Either way men aren't the victim in this scenario.

Just-world fallacy. "Your results are because you're doing something wrong". I know plenty of womanizers who get treated well by women.

On this earth, people seem to think "if you are nice and humble and expect nothing, people will just be nice to you". If that is what people on a suicide forum believe , then imagine what the average normie believes.

 

[stermc]

I would also like to add more. It's fear AND insecurity/low self-esteem. There are PLENTY of men out here with confidence who can get girls and sex anytime they want even tho they are low quality with nothing to offer. And it's approach. Women don't like to be approached any kind of way. And also knowing the right time to approach which means learning to read people body language.

They would surely know how to approach women if they actually liked them and listened to them. But apparently they know more about how we feel than we do.

 

[stermc]

The classic bluepilled horsesh-- line that men get forcefed: "Women don't like you cuz they can see your true horrible intentions and heart, but when they date a tall goodlooking thug who beats the living shit out of them, well that's cuz he had a good personality!"

Oh, man… are you into that red pill stuff?
You are so wrong about what is actually happening.

 

[rcedu]

I feel that there is a huge lack in empathy of the problems of being male. Obviously women have historically had a difficult time, but I feel that we all know that. Women don't seem to understand that being male also has it's drawbacks. Especially if you are not a good looking male.

As someone who has had decent amount of sex, I also feel that sex is not everything in life. But I know that a 30 - 40 year old who has never had sex does not feel the same way. To women it may feel as non important because honestly most women cant empathize with someone not being able to have sex, most women can have sex whenever they want. Sex might sound like such a stupid thing, but I know how it feels to live life wanting something and never being able to achieve it.

 

[Roseate]

I didn't say sex. Why are you strawmanning me? I was talking about relationships. Since a man and a woman being in a relationship has gotten us from the start of earth to this point here - and I can say without knowing you that you are the product of a man and a woman - then I guess we have evolved to yearn that bond.



Again, I didn't mention sex. If I could date a woman I loved and NOT have sex, I would pick that over living an empty life of remembering my childhood, playing videogames and talking to other men.



The classic bluepilled horsesh-- line that men get forcefed: "Women don't like you cuz they can see your true horrible intentions and heart, but when they date a tall goodlooking thug who beats the living shit out of them, well that's cuz he had a good personality!"



Simone De Beauvoix?! So full Gender Studies mode?

Who said women owe men sex? I said women can do without men. How does that suggest that men are owed sex?



I was literally told that I would not make a good provider because of my lack of money.

I don't hate women at all. Everything that men and women do is cuz of their biological imperative plus some cultural influence (religion, technology). It is just how things are. I am not interested in holding women down or anything.



Just-world fallacy. "Your results are because you're doing something wrong". I know plenty of womanizers who get treated well by women.

On this earth, people seem to think "if you are nice and humble and expect nothing, people will just be nice to you". If that is what people on a suicide forum believe , then imagine what the average normie believes.

If a women have a good job then why should they settle for a men that makes less? What can you give aside from love? Because times are different. Women tried that and they were made a fool out of. And now women are choosing to date men who can provide and match the amount they make. It's not hard to do that because we know women are underpaid compared to men. And some women will settle for efforts. Also you mentioned being depressed, and that can negatively impact a relationship. Are you ready to put that amount of pressure on your partner? Or are you actively working on getting better as to not hurt someone? There are plenty of poor men in relationships. Maybe you are seeking in the wrong place. Also if we're talking biologically or whatever, men are the main providers. At least traditionally. And I'm not a traditional person but realistically love is not enough. Love doesn't pay the bills.

 

[stermc]

I was literally told that I would not make a good provider because of my lack of money.

About this, you do not have to be the provider. You can marry someone and you can both provide. If you are dealing with people who actually think you should be the one paying for everything, change the scenario and look for people who don't think like that.
I can assure you most women nowadays want to build a life with someone else instead of being a trophy wife.
You just gotta stop focusing on the wrong people.

 

[orca87]

They would surely know how to approach women if they actually liked them and listened to them. But apparently they know more about how we feel than we do.

I had my "problems" with approaching women for most of my teenage years. At that time, I thought it was about my looks. But it was all about insecurity. And in hindsight, it had nothing to do with women. I would assume that most people that feel women continuously reject them have difficulty finding new friends, too.

Since – especially in one's teens – having sex seems to be the most urgent problem, a coping strategy is to come up with rational explanations for why women reject them.

After all, it's about being "awkward" in social situations.

The paradox is that – even though every rejection makes it worse – you can only go out there and practise. That doesn't mean hitting on every woman you see but becoming comfortable in social situations with strangers. Go on meetups, join travel groups, do some team sports. The more natural it feels that you are comfortable with strangers, the more natural it feels to have a good conversation with women.

 

[ChildrensITV]

Of course sex and intimacy are important, to both men and women. The problem is that guys are always blaming us because they don't have sex. The thing is: why are they not having sex? They usually say it's because women just care about appearance, wealth, status and etc. This is certainly a way of diminishing us, as if we were shallow bitches who just care about money and good looking man. This is misogyny.

What if I were to say that it is NOT shallow? If you are hardwired to want the healthiest, fittest, best provider and you have a lot more options now than 500 years ago, that isn't to say you're shallow for picking your best ones. It is simply remarking that the fallout from that is that a lot of men have to adapt in some way.

Instead of doing this, men should start asking themselves why the hell they are not getting women's attention. And as I said before, I am pretty sure it has a lot to do with fear.

I know of men who worked on their looks, even if it took cosmetic surgery. It helps somewhat. Obviously, you can't change yourself that radically, and if you have a bad starting base, you won't be able to improve much. Some men do have fear though.

And I am not saying this because my heart is broken and I have had bad experiences with men (and I have had lots of them). I am saying this because guys are looking at the wrong direction, blaming us for choosing to be alone.
To be honest, I couldn't care less about money and appearance. I care about character, personality, values. But it's not easy to find a man who actually respect us or even gives a shit about what we think. They all just be treating us as a piece of meat, a way to get sex.

If an ugly, balding man were to approach you with respect, I am not sure if you would be attracted to his "values". Would you give him enough time to show his values? In this fast-paced society, I wouldn't expect you to take time out to get to know him on a few dates.

So yes, being alone is way better than having to be treated like this.
I do need sex, but I surely do not need men.

Literally the last link in my op.

Also, I am not blaming anyone here. I am just discussing men's struggles.

 

[Roseate]

I feel that there is a huge lack in empathy of the problems of being male. Obviously women have historically had a difficult time, but I feel that we all know that. Women don't seem to understand that being male also has it's drawbacks. Especially if you are not a good looking male.

As someone who has had decent amount of sex, I also feel that sex is not everything in life. But I know that a 30 - 40 year old who has never had sex does not feel the same way. To women it may feel as non important because honestly most women cant empathize with someone not being able to have sex, most women can have sex whenever they want. Sex might sound like such a stupid thing, but I know how it feels to live life wanting something and never being able to achieve it.

We know men have their set of problems but you guys are addressing the real problems which are how men mental health aren't addressed enough or taken serious enough. Things like that are the things you guys need to talk about. Now something like that most people are aware of and can see.

 

[ChildrensITV]

Oh, man… are you into that red pill stuff?
You are so wrong about what is actually happening.

Is it not true that abusive. toxic men can get into relationships? Is it wrong to state that gender-based violence happens in relationships? But it shouldn't happen if women can tell what your personality is like beforehand, right?
Also, I have no problem with the women here discussing this openly with me here. Sorry if I come across as angry at YOU. I am not. I just find the situation frustrating.