The USA is such a fucked up country and "experts" wonder why suicides have gone up

[Deleted member 23374]

To add perspective,
When i got out of the army some 20 something years ago and finally got within a few miles of home,
i had the bus drop me off at the top of the hill because i wanted to walk the last few miles and be in
what i love.
I didn't make it to the bottom of that hill before the cops stoppped me.
I'm stared them down and told them they had better have a good reason for pestering me.
They hemmed and hawed about "blah blah supspicious male with backpack.
I said bullshit.
They "apologized" but still demanded my id.
I made my plan to kill them then handed them my id, an older one.
They left.
murica

No i did not see combat, no i have no use for the flag-waver nonsense.
I'm just adding a plain fact to the discussion.

 

[VivaldiBR]

Amazon product ASIN 087154895X

The New Jim Crow - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Deleted member 1465]

survival of the fittest

Indeed.

 

[KleinerWolf]

wish I could complain about USA


fucking China.
fuck me sideways.

 

[VivaldiBR]

Okay but where are the hard stats? And don't say there aren't any because whitey's gestapo is hiding them all from the public because it doesn't work that way.

It is very unwillingness. I gave the source of the study. If you want to read, it's there. Loïc Wacquant is known worldwide. It is scientific research. It is not an "agenda" or a "narrative". These are facts.

 

[Nyxtus]

Indeed.

I wouldn't agree with this. There are so many weak or unfit people in positions of power or health in this world, carried by their family or relatives or friends wealth or support. Meanwhile you have a ton of strong, healthy people beaten down by poverty or their childhood experiences. I wouldn't say it's survival of the fittest, just status quo doing status quo.

It is very unwillingness. I gave the source of the study. If you want to read, it's there. Loïc Wacquant is known worldwide. It is scientific research. It is scientific research. It is not an "agenda" or a "narrative". These are facts.

The second you take raw statistics and you make a book it becomes narrative and agenda. Raw stats are raw stats until somebody interprets them, then they take on the properties or values of the person who does the interpreting. I don't mean to be rude to you, and I understand this isn't well known in society generally, but that is the fact of that matter. Human bias absolutely will come in during these situations, and if you think it doesn't then you're the demographic these authors or newscasters cater to and make money from.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

The second you take raw statistics and you make a book it becomes narrative and agenda. Raw stats are raw stats until somebody interprets them, then they take on the properties or values of the person who does the interpreting. I don't mean to be rude to you, and I understand this isn't well known in society generally, but that is the fact of that matter. Human bias absolutely will come in during these situations, and if you think it doesn't then you're the demographic these authors or newscasters cater to and make money from.

Yeah, I wanted to write the same thing, but you beat me to it.

 

[Deleted member 23374]

I wouldn't agree with this. There are so many weak or unfit people in positions of power or health in this world, carried by their family or relatives or friends wealth or support. Meanwhile you have a ton of strong, healthy people beaten down by poverty or their childhood experiences. I wouldn't say it's survival of the fittest, just status quo doing status quo.



The second you take raw statistics and you make a book it becomes narrative and agenda. Raw stats are raw stats until somebody interprets them, then they take on the properties or values of the person who does the interpreting. I don't mean to be rude to you, and I understand this isn't well known in society generally, but that is the fact of that matter. Human bias absolutely will come in during these situations, and if you think it doesn't then you're the demographic these authors or newscasters cater to and make money from.

But do the corpses lie ?

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

But do the corpses lie ?

Very poetic, but you need to elaborate more. Whose corpses?

 

[Deleted member 23374]

The forgotten bones trailing the ocean floor.
The bullet butchered bodies of babies in schoolhouses.
Pose the question of corpses to survivors of the victims.
Poetry can do damage or brighten gardens
it can muddy the water or lay flesh bare
poets on the other hand tend to be assholes.
the corspes don't lie.

 

[Meditation guide]

What that cop did was standard procedure and because of floyd's chronic drug abuse, he had a weak heart which the cop did not know about.

So it's standard procedure to keep a knee on a helpless man's neck until he dies?

 

[Deleted member 23374]

So it's standard procedure to keep a knee on a helpless man's neck until he dies?

No, it's homicide and terrorism.

 

[Wayfaerer]

So it's standard procedure to keep a knee on a helpless man's neck until he dies?

He wasn't trying to kill him, only subdue him. I explained in a former post that he had heart problems from wanton drug abuse. That's what did him in.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

No, it's homicide and terrorism.

Terrorism? You forgot to say it is also institutionalized white supremacy in action.

 

[VivaldiBR]

The second you take raw statistics and you make a book it becomes narrative and agenda. Raw stats are raw stats until somebody interprets them, then they take on the properties or values of the person who does the interpreting. I don't mean to be rude to you, and I understand this isn't well known in society generally, but that is the fact of that matter. Human bias absolutely will come in during these situations, and if you think it doesn't then you're the demographic these authors or newscasters cater to and make money from.

Of course he has an ideology. But that does not mean that he does not have scientific rigor in his research. Scientific rigor is what sets it apart from common sense.

Do you really think that what drives criminologists like Loïc Wacquant is making money from boring, long-lasting research that mentally drains the researcher? No, what moves him is curiosity and empathy in solving social problems. He is not FOX NEWS, KKK or Donald Trump, who have a very clear conservative political agenda. He's a scientist. His "agenda" is questioned all the time in his research. What explains the worldwide success of a criminologist, in addition to robust, serious and, above all, innovative research?

It is very easy to say that blacks commit more crimes without considering the material reality of the social structure. At the end, It smells like racism to me. It is to justify all the misfortune that blacks suffered and still suffer, both in the USA and in Brazil. Wanting to label blacks as naturally violent and criminal. That's racism.

 

[Meditation guide]

That's what did him in.

He couldn't breathe. He was murdered. If the pressure wasn't on his neck for 8 minutes he would still be alive.

These posts don't even deserve responses. Sorry I let myself get taken into this.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

He is not FOX NEWS, KKK or Donald Trump, who have a very clear conservative political agenda. He's a scientist. His "agenda" is questioned all the time in his research. What explains the worldwide success of a criminologist, in addition to robust, serious and, above all, innovative research?

No, he's not. He is more like CNN, BLM, Hollywood and all liberal media. His worldwide success can be explained as being a result of his allegiance to the ideology and interpretational framework that is currently popular in the Western world. He applies structuralism (a theory) to his interpretation of raw data. Like another user said, everything is ideological and a narrative. There is no absolute truth in research, only hard data and its interpretation.

 

[VivaldiBR]

No, he's not. He is more like CNN, BLM, Hollywood and all liberal media. His worldwide success can be explained as being a result of his allegiance to the ideology and interpretational framework that is currently popular in the Western world. He applies structuralism (a theory) to his interpretation of raw data. Like another user said, everything is ideological and a narrative. There is no absolute truth in research, only hard data and its interpretation.

It is very easy to discredit scientific research, especially in the humanities, and to say that everything can be interpreted according to the researcher's ideology. There is great scientific rigor and a method to be strictly followed. The humanities tend to be even more rigorous and always consider different perspectives.

To discredit science is a well-know narrative by Trump, Bolsonaro, Viktor Orbán and other authoritarian leaders. Bolsonaro said, days ago, that there is no racism in Brazil, for example. So his interpretation of cold numbers is validy? No, he is a fuckin clown, a denier of material reality.

-
An author of the size of Loïc Wacquant, being analyzed by researchers from various countries and of different ideologies, becoming a world reference, so is he simply "interpreting" cold numbers? No. He found several "bottlenecks" that belied common senses such as "blacks commit more crimes".

And, by the way, structuralism is not a "theory", it is a bias in analyzing reality. Social structures exist.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

It is very easy to discredit scientific research, especially in the humanities, and to say that everything can be interpreted according to the researcher's ideology. There is great scientific rigor and a method to be strictly followed. The humanities tend to be even more rigorous and always consider different perspectives.

To discredit science is a well-know narrative by Trump, Bolsonaro, Viktor Orbán and other authoritarian leaders.

-

An author of the size of Loïc Wacquant, being analyzed by researchers from various countries and of different ideologies, becoming a world reference, so is he simply "interpreting" cold numbers? No. He found several "bottleneck" that belied common senses such as "blacks commit more crimes".

And, by the way, structuralism is not a "theory", it is a bias in analyzing reality. Social structures exist.

It's nice to be in company of such world leaders. Thanks for the comparison. Btw I know that humanities are trying hard to use and apply the scientific method, but in most cases it is not applicable. Humanities, especially on liberal arts colleges in the US, are notoriously unscientific and heavily ideological. I have a degree in humanities, and I am sad that I did not choose a different academic path, because I now realize that most of it is bullshit.

Btw, from wiki: "In sociology, anthropology, and linguistics, structuralism is a general theory of culture and methodology that implies that elements of human culture must be understood by way of their relationship to a broader system."

But you are correct that it is a bias. I believe that Wacquant uses a lot of confirmation bias in his research, like most authors do. Objectivity is a myth.

 

[VivaldiBR]

It's nice to be in company of such world leaders. Thanks for the comparison. Btw I know that humanities are trying hard to use and apply the scientific method, but in most cases it is not applicable. Humanities, especially on liberal arts colleges in the US, are notoriously unscientific and heavily ideological. I have a degree in humanities, and I am sad that I did not choose a different academic path, because I now realize that most of it is bullshit.

Btw, from wiki: "In sociology, anthropology, and linguistics, structuralism is a general theory of culture and methodology that implies that elements of human culture must be understood by way of their relationship to a broader system."

But you are correct that it is a bias. I believe that Wacquant uses a lot of confirmation bias in his research, like most authors do. Objectivity is a myth.

I didn't want to compare. But to warn that anti-scientific discourse is very dangerous.

I don't think this is true. In Brazil, public colleges are accused of having an ideological bias as well. Of course, everyone has an ideology, but again, that does not mean that there is manipulation in the results of scientific research. If you get carried away by ideology, you are being unscientific. And scientific research in the exact sciences can have gross errors as well. It is what has more. I think scientific research is more likely to be unreliable when there are industrial lobbyists behind it.

But what to do about the mass incarceration of blacks? What to do about the racist penal system, including the police? What to do with criminal selectivity? Those are facts. What ideology does is decide whether we are going to look at these problems and act or if we are going to ignore the existence of these problems or even call it problems.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

I didn't want to compare. But to warn that anti-scientific discourse is very dangerous.

I don't think this is true. In Brazil, public colleges are accused of having an ideological bias as well. Of course, everyone has an ideology, but again, that does not mean that there is manipulation in the results of scientific research. If you get carried away by ideology, you are being unscientific. And scientific research in the exact sciences can have gross errors as well. It is what has more. I think scientific research is more likely to be unreliable when there are industrial lobbyists behind it.

Scientific research in exact sciences has errors, and that is what makes them sciences. Falsifiability is the main thing that distinguishes science from pseudo science. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability You cannot scientifically prove or disprove statements such as "The penal system is racist". Science doesn't deal with absolutes.

Public colleges in my country (humanities and social sciences) are focused on questions of identity, sexual orientation etc. - heavily influenced by identity politics.

But what to do about the mass incarceration of blacks? What to do about the racist penal system, including the police? What to do with criminal selectivity? Those are facts. What ideology does is decide whether we are going to look at these problems and act or if we are going to ignore the existence of these problems or even call it problems.

Those are not facts, but interpretations. A different interpretation might be that the penal system is not racist, but that blacks are more prone to committing crime than whites due to different factors (poverty, being raised by single mothers etc.).

It was nice debating with you, I am off to sleep soon.

 

[puppy9]

India was a UK colony. Totally different situation.

I know duhhhh. The comment are meant to be taken as a whole it's my opening to a blanket statement that when you're given money you need to stfu. More like India was enslaved by the UK. Colony is the euphemism for slavery and theft. I'm part of the colonialism and the damage on the homosexuals today are the result of the UK enslaving our system and country.
UK are fucking people in Yemen too, somethings will never change.

It's about throwing money at others doesn't mean you got the right to tell people off.

Yes, white men are killed asphyxiated by the police.

This vague speech of meritocracy in countries like Brazil and the USA is a joke. You don't live in Scandinavia where the rich and the poor get the same education.

Truth.

Ahhhh the classic meritocracy cards used to criminalized the poor. One place they're talking white male can be a victim and the other they're saying poor people deserve their shit.

My race is privilege in my country, we control everything. Even though my life is hard, it's still easier for me because of my privilege. Easier than any minorities here. The system fuck em up.
Yeah they live a harder life than me and suffer more than me. It's unfair as a human being.

and @Meditation guide I'm sorry that I lashed out on your post.

 

[CatLove56]

man u are in the greatest country in the world just try one month in my country beleive me u will appreciate evry seconde in ur country i wish i was americain fuck my luck

Lol no we are not don't compare dogshit to shit

 

[waitpresence]

Lol no we are not don't compare dogshit to shit

the replies in this thread are so bizarre. its pretty wild how we have 250k+ deaths (and we will see many many more in the coming weeks) purely because our government has abandoned us, yet people are STILL desperate to defend this country as a great and fair place. so many people suffer here and we are supposed to just suck it up and accept that this is the way things are

 

[Heart Shards]

It's not my place to criticize the USA, but I do think that Scandinavian countries are more 'advanced' in terms of their social policies and concern for the general wellbeing and economic integration of all citizens.

True, can confirm.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

Terrorism? You forgot to say it is also institutionalized white supremacy in action.

Btw this was meant to be sarcastic, thought I'd mention it just in case anyone took it seriously.

 

[Deleted member 23374]

Btw this was meant to be sarcastic, thought I'd mention it just in case anyone took it seriously.

But i do, the sarcasm was weak.

 

[Lost in a Dream]

It's not my place to criticize the USA, but I do think that Scandinavian countries are more 'advanced' in terms of their social policies and concern for the general wellbeing and economic integration of all citizens.

It would be nice to be able to live in one of those countries... *sigh*

 

[TheREALDisgustingMe]

Really? Then why are so many working class white males on opioids and killing themselves in record numbers.

You make it seem like we're the only ones that are.

White males are part of the history of america. America was founded by a large proportion of white males.
Can you elaborate on how 'white males' are such a 'problem'?

And this is just straight up false. It only takes quick google searches to see why, and to actually ask on being elaborated on the strong bias towards white males in the US..... It's comments like this as to why I don't go to this forum that often anymore.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

You make it seem like we're the only ones that are.

He's not. He is just countering the narrative which claims that white men are somehow having it easy.

And this is just straight up false. It only takes quick google searches to see why, and to actually ask on being elaborated on the strong bias towards white males in the US..... It's comments like this as to why I don't go to this forum that often anymore.

Sorry to hear you are refraining from posting on this forum because people here dare to express opinions that are not in agreement with your opinions. You did not say anything in this post, other than expressing your indignation in a vague kind of way. White men created America, there would be no America without them. That is a fact.