Story The story of Viktor Staudt and how it is a beautiful illustration that many of us are fighting an endless battle

[Santiago]

Viktor Staudt was a Dutch guy who suffered from severe mental health issues. In 1999 he tried to commit suicide by jumping in front of a train, but he survived and lost his legs.

Apparently this moment was a turnaround for Viktor. He went on to write books, do TV shows and TED talks about that day and how it was a mistake. As Viktor said many times: 'suicide is an attempt to end your problems, but you are ending your life'. Many people would listen to that and get motivated to keep on going because you know what..he might be right? Most of us don't want to end our lifes..we would like to live a better one. Is that realistic though? (I'll get back to that later)

Not only would Viktor try to help other people..he proclaimed that things got better for him. He was finally able to distinguish his life from his problems he said.
In his book 'how I conquered my anxiety & depression' he would call his earlier attempt a mistake. One that he made because he wasn't being rational.





On the 12th of September 2019 Viktor committed suicide.

Let that one sink in. A man who dedicated a huge portion of his life to try and convince other people that suicide is merely a temporary solution killed himself 20 years later because he finally realized it was permanent.

I guess the moral of the story and the reason I am sharing this here is that this is a perfect example of what we all already know deep down inside. You see despite all his nice quotes and motivational speeches Viktor made one mistake. He distinguished 'life' and 'problems'.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I guess this can come accross as a very pro-suicide post. It's not. I don't want to push anyone deeper than they already are. For those though that are out there (and I know for a fact there are many) who are in full survival mode in the hope things will start changing. They won't. You and me will end up like Viktor.


(I don't necessarily have a question or a topic to discuss. It's just something that really kicked in over the last few weeks. We really are stuck into a never ending cycle)

 

[MeltingHeart]

I actually appreciate this story as the ones widely circulated in the media are ALWAYS the ones that someone attempts - and then even in some messed up state - goes on to "live life to the full" even if disabled or whatever and preach the fact that it was a stupid or impulsive decision- made during a difficult time-when that is not always the case (though of course sometimes it is) - but you rarely see the stories of people that attempt, fail & then try again-because actually they did really mean it the first time- and actually they didn't regret it - they regretted surviving! - you won't see those stories being shared much. Fair play to all those that survive and DO go on to have a good life - but it certainly will not be the case for all initial survivors...

 

[Ratherbeskinny]

This is one of my biggest fears; attempting, surviving and ending up like that. I hope he is in peace now.

 

[MeltingHeart]

This is one of my biggest fears; attempting, surviving and ending up like that. I hope he is in peace now.

It's the ultimate fear isn't it. I read one not so long ago about a hanging survivor - he's now totally paralysed - but can blink- once for no. Twice for yes. They asked him if he still wanted to die... I don't think I even need to say how many times he blinked...heart-breaking...this is not a scare story...if this is yr method you just have to factor very carefully into your plan NOT being found too soon, which is after all a crucial factor in anyone's plan- seems like the main cause of fail on here.

 

[Jean Améry]

There's nothing wrong with your post, nothing at all. The 'suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem' is a line often tauted in society as if it were a universal truth. Clearly for this man it wasn't and for many (far too many) it isn't.

What I do not like about him is his hypocrisy: one should own (up to) one's past and suicide attempts not be ashamed of them and denounce them as 'a mistake' but that's what you get when you institutionalize 'normalcy' and 'mental health' and build a secular religion around it in which blasphemers deserve condemnation and punishment (a 'diagnosis' of mental illness, being put in a madhouse and kept their against one's will, being force-fed 'medication'). I guess this case (sad as it may be) proves converts do make the best preachers but eventually he arrived at the truth or he could no longer deny it.

Life itself is a temporary problem but that doesn't mean one should suffer horrendously in exchange for a chance it might become better in the future. At a certain level of intensity of suffering and after a certain time period it no longer matters whether the problem could go away in some distant future: the very fact that life can contain so much suffering of such intensity proves it isn't worth the effort and ultimately a mistake.

Schopenhauer took this to be undeniable proof of the wretchedness of life: nature itself prounces this verdict clearly and openly for all to see and hear by means of death. By destroying the individuals in succession it makes it clear how much individual lives are worth: nothing. Yet we are made to walk the narrow, stony, difficult road from the cradle to the grave only to prove yet again what has already been proven billions of times before.

 

[Rachel74]

Thank you for sharing

 

[Alucard]

It reminds me of Dominic James's movie "Die".

A guru wants to force suicidal people to take a "fresh start".

But the sentence of one of the suicidal ones is grandiose: "you did not push the reasoning to asser far ... Otherwise, you would have understood that I fear more to live ... than to die ..." (and he commits suicide immediately, to the damn of the guru).

 

[MeltingHeart]

There's nothing wrong with your post, nothing at all. The 'suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem' is a line often tauted in society as if it were a universal truth. Clearly for this man it wasn't and for many (far too many) it isn't.

What I do not like about him is his hypocrisy: one should own (up to) one's past and suicide attempts not be ashamed of them and denounce them as 'a mistake' but that's what you get when you institutionalize 'normalcy' and 'mental health' and build a secular religion around it in which blasphemers deserve condemnation and punishment (a 'diagnosis' of mental illness, being put in a madhouse and kept their against one's will, being force-fed 'medication'). I guess this case (sad as it may be) proves converts do make the best preachers but eventually he arrived at the truth or he could no longer deny it.

Life itself is a temporary problem but that doesn't mean one should suffer horrendously in exchange for a chance it might become better in the future. At a certain level of intensity of suffering and after a certain time period it no longer matters whether the problem could go away in some distant future: the very fact that life can contain so much suffering of such intensity proves it isn't worth the effort and ultimately a mistake.

Schopenhauer took this to be undeniable proof of the wretchedness of life: nature itself prounces this verdict clearly and openly for all to see and hear by means of death. By destroying the individuals in succession it makes it clear how much individual lives are worth: nothing. Yet we are made to walk the narrow, stony, difficult road from the cradle to the grave only to prove yet again what has already been proven billions of times before.

I am being told that purely by merit of the fact I want to kill myself that I must have a mental illness- whilst I agree I am now very emotionally distraught and even 'disturbed' to a certain degree- I still maintain that I do not, as such; have a 'mental illness' & I have never been diagnosed with any despite consultation - rather things have been "suggested" to me- because I tick a few boxes of a couple of things in the Manuel of diagnosis thing that psychiatrists use- but if you actually looked through that pretty much ALL of the population would be shown to have 'signs' of some of the 'diagnosis' in that book- & ironically the people that insist that I MUST be mentally ill- or I would not want to die - exhibit far more of those signifiers than I do! Failing to understand that for some ctb is actually a sane & rational result of the cards life has dealt someone- and whilst some may be more resilient than others, some people can not help but feel they have simply just had enough.

 

[DeepSleep]

Sometimes its simple: Take something away from you and your mind will click and switch.

I wake up with only one thought - "where do I get money", I go through the day with it, and I go to sleep with this thought.
It's an endless cycle.

But last year I was riding my bicycle, it slipped and I hit the hard road with my shoulder. Boom.
The pain was excruciating, feels like I broke my clavicle and collar bones.
Couldnt move my hand.
I was sure I broke it so I prepared to endure it for 3,4,5 months, there's no other choice.

And I started to think like this Viktor Staudt guy - "Now I have to learn to type with my left hand, or hold the mouse, and sleep on my back. And I'm gonna read more, and do this, and do that"...
Seemed like a turnaround point.

But 3 days later the surgeon checked the Xrays and said - "Its was a hard blow, but the bones are intact. It will heal within 2-3 weeks".
And it did.

And now I'm back to my default mode thinking about the money. :)

 

[MeltingHeart]

Sometimes its simple: Take something away from you and your mind will click and switch.

I wake up with only one thought - "where do I get money", I go through the day with it, and I go to sleep with this thought.
It's an endless cycle.

But last year I was riding my bicycle, it slipped and I hit the hard road with my shoulder. Boom.
The pain was excruciating, feels like I broke my clavicle and collar bones.
Couldnt move my hand.
I was sure I broke it so I prepared to endure it for 3,4,5 months, there's no other choice.

And I started to think like this Viktor Staudt guy - "Now I have to learn to type with my left hand, or hold the mouse, and sleep on my back. And I'm gonna read more, and do this, and do that"...
Seemed like a turnaround point.

But 3 days later the surgeon checked the Xrays and said - "Its was a hard blow, but the bones are intact. It will heal within 2-3 weeks".
And it did.

And now I'm back to my default mode thinking about the money. :)

thats interesting- i havent watched the video yet -but i will- this would suggest that if you continued to have some stresses or woes over & above money- you would thrive in some ways -as it is a distraction from that worry and also gives you some sense of drive or purpose in other areas-in some ways ur focal point of thinking is altered- I guess this can work in the short term but maybe not sustainable in the long term to need a new difficulty to distract from an existing one- if that makes any sense... I should probs watch that clip now anyway...

 

[Jean Améry]

I am being told that purely by merit of the fact I want to kill myself that I must have a mental illness- whilst I agree I am now very emotionally distraught and even 'disturbed' to a certain degree- I still maintain that I do not, as such; have a 'mental illness' & I have never been diagnosed with any despite consultation - rather things have been "suggested" to me- because I tick a few boxes of a couple of things in the Manuel of diagnosis thing that psychiatrists use- but if you actually looked through that pretty much ALL of the population would be shown to have 'signs' of some of the 'diagnosis' in that book- & ironically the people that insist that I MUST be mentally ill- or I would not want to die - exhibit far more of those signifiers than I do! Failing to understand that for some ctb is actually a sane & rational result of the cards life has dealt someone- and whilst some may be more resilient than others, some people can not help but feel they have simply just had enough.

Even by the dubious standards of the field of psychiatry it's simply not true that people who die by their own hand are necessarily 'mentally ill'. Whatever that may mean: they can't even properly define the concept of 'mental illness' much less prove it empirically.

The DSM-5 is not a handbook of pathology but of public morality disguised as medicine. They haven't got a single test that can unequivocally detect any 'mental illness' in an individual so they rely on the archaic and unscientific system of counting 'symptoms' to arrive at a shaky, unreliable conclusion. Which is why psychiatrists tend to contradict one-another so often.

I wouldn't put much stock in others' opinion of you and your situation: it's your opinion that counts. The only person that truly understands the situation, pain and difficulties is the individual herself. Others can merely guess, most often based on their own prejudices and what is most advantageouss to them.

In my opinion suicide can be rational or irrational depending on the circumstances and the thought process of the individual but there is no doubt in my mind that it can be defended rationally and morally and given that psychiatry ultimately doesn't rest on actual science I do not believe a word they say.

Ironically I'm doing much better now objectively speaking than when I was still under psychiatry's spell and I believed their nonsense. These frauds love nothing more than messing with people's heads and making bad situations much, much worse. They haven't got a clue yet they consider themselves true experts in their field and proclaim themselves as such to the world and demand power, money and status. They simply do not understand what they are pretending to treat and they damn sure can't cure anyone. It's a sick joke at the expense of the public's dime and untold human suffering.

I wouldn't worry about bogus concepts as 'sanity' (everybody and their mother think they are sane yet the world as a whole is as insane as it gets), 'mental illness' and the like. Make up your own mind and dare to think for yourself. It's what makes us true individuals (not drones repeating so called 'shared wisdom') and if there is some value in this wretched life it's in reason and uplifting oneself through independent, critical thinking and resolute, non-impulsive and constructive action.

 

[ManWithNoName]

On the 12th of September 2019 Viktor committed suicide.

Let that one sink in. A man who dedicated a huge portion of his life to try and convince other people that suicide is merely a temporary solution killed himself 20 years later because he finally realized it was permanent.

I guess the moral of the story and the reason I am sharing this here is that this is a perfect example of what we all already know deep down inside. You see despite all his nice quotes and motivational speeches Viktor made one mistake. He distinguished 'life' and 'problems'.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I guess this can come accross as a very pro-suicide post. It's not. I don't want to push anyone deeper than they already are. For those though that are out there (and I know for a fact there are many) who are in full survival mode in the hope things will start changing. They won't. You and me will end up like Viktor.


(I don't necessarily have a question or a topic to discuss. It's just something that really kicked in over the last few weeks. We really are stuck into a never ending cycle)

A lot of talks on suicide and how bad it is (and I'm speaking of talks in general, not limiting the talks only on Ted) tend to be these flowery, new age rhetorical speeches that do not really help anyone who's on the edge.

And yes, it speaks volumes the fact that after all is talks (I'm guessing this was probably his vocation since his accident - went on lecture tours, interviews, etc) he ultimately decided to call it quits.

There is another secondary take away here: if one is going to ctb via train, do the research very thoroughly so one does not end up alive and mutilated, or partially dismembered.

He succeeded a second time, what was his method of choice?

 

[MeltingHeart]

A lot of talks on suicide and how bad it is (and I'm speaking of talks in general, not limiting the talks only on Ted) tend to be these flowery, new age rhetorical speeches that do not really help anyone who's on the edge.

And yes, it speaks volumes the fact that after all is talks (I'm guessing this was probably his vocation since his accident - went on lecture tours, interviews, etc) he ultimately decided to call it quits.

There is another secondary take away here: if one is going to ctb via train, do the research very thoroughly so one does not end up alive and mutilated, or partially dismembered.

He succeeded a second time, what was his method of choice?

I cant find his actual cause of death ANYWHRE- only articles i can find are that he is a suicide survior & no cause of death given! - its like the second part of his ' story' the end has been edited out of the the world ( the media)

 

[Santiago]

A lot of talks on suicide and how bad it is (and I'm speaking of talks in general, not limiting the talks only on Ted) tend to be these flowery, new age rhetorical speeches that do not really help anyone who's on the edge.

And yes, it speaks volumes the fact that after all is talks (I'm guessing this was probably his vocation since his accident - went on lecture tours, interviews, etc) he ultimately decided to call it quits.

There is another secondary take away here: if one is going to ctb via train, do the research very thoroughly so one does not end up alive and mutilated, or partially dismembered.

He succeeded a second time, what was his method of choice?

They haven't mentioned his method of choice anywhere. I guess because he had a pretty large following and they don't want to encourage people even more.

 

[ManWithNoName]

What I do not like about him is his hypocrisy: one should own (up to) one's past and suicide attempts not be ashamed of them and denounce them as 'a mistake'

I was thinking the same thing, and his ctb essentially negates all of his "life is beautiful no matter what" caterwauling. And this is how it will be perceived even in the history archives, there will be no way to write his biography without the reader realizing that, for some folks, sometimes life just aint worth it—assuming his bio does get archived in this politically correct climate.

Interestingly enough there is no mention of Viktor in English Wikipedia, but there is a stub bio about him in the German Wiki:

Viktor Staudt – Wikipedia

de.wikipedia.org

Below in italics quotes is my English translation of that German Wiki article—my German is not perfect, so any German speakers are welcome to correct me:

Viktor Staudt

Viktor Staudt (born March 7, 1969 in the Netherlands, died September 8, 2019) was a Dutch lawyer and writer. He was particularly active in the advocation against suicide after he lost both legs due to an unsuccessful attempt of suicide by jumping in front of a train.

Staudt suffered from depression as a child ; he was diagnosed with a borderline personality disorder during his adolescence.

He studied law and worked for an airline for ten years. In 1999 attempted suicide in which he survived, but suffered serious injuries. After his rehabilitation, he first lived in Germany and later Switzerland. Since 2011 he lived near Bologna in Italy.

In his book, The Story of My Suicide, he wrote about the situation that led to his suicide attempt, as well as the way back to life. He lectured in numerous events, trying to show suicidal people that there was way out. In particular, he wanted to use the papageno effect to prevent further suicide."

Among the citations in that wiki (auf Deutsch article) was a link to a German magazine / blog and the title is written: "Motivational coach takes his own life: Hero Viktor Staudt has lost his courage" (my translation / interpretation)

That article didn't specify which method he used to ctb his second time.

I wonder if an English version about Viktor would ever be allowed on Wikipedia. Hmmm....

They haven't mentioned his method of choice anywhere. I guess because he had a pretty large following and they don't want to encourage people even more.

I cant find his actual cause of death ANYWHRE- only articles i can find are that he is a suicide survior & no cause of death given! - its like the second part of his ' story' the end has been edited out of the the world ( the media)

I couldn't find anything in English nor German.

 

[WilliamKline]

Sometimes its simple: Take something away from you and your mind will click and switch.

I wake up with only one thought - "where do I get money", I go through the day with it, and I go to sleep with this thought.
It's an endless cycle.

But last year I was riding my bicycle, it slipped and I hit the hard road with my shoulder. Boom.
The pain was excruciating, feels like I broke my clavicle and collar bones.
Couldnt move my hand.
I was sure I broke it so I prepared to endure it for 3,4,5 months, there's no other choice.

And I started to think like this Viktor Staudt guy - "Now I have to learn to type with my left hand, or hold the mouse, and sleep on my back. And I'm gonna read more, and do this, and do that"...
Seemed like a turnaround point.

But 3 days later the surgeon checked the Xrays and said - "Its was a hard blow, but the bones are intact. It will heal within 2-3 weeks".
And it did.

And now I'm back to my default mode thinking about the money. :)

Awesome. I actually broke my finger once and I remember it being exactly as you describe: I had a single purpose that I could work towards (regain flexibility in my finger) and all my focus was on that. I remember feeling more positive and purposeful with this happening and really distracted me from my depressed state of mind

 

[ManWithNoName]

It's the ultimate fear isn't it. I read one not so long ago about a hanging survivor - he's now totally paralysed - but can blink- once for no. Twice for yes. They asked him if he still wanted to die... I don't think I even need to say how many times he blinked...heart-breaking...this is not a scare story...if this is yr method you just have to factor very carefully into your plan NOT being found too soon, which is after all a crucial factor in anyone's plan- seems like the main cause of fail on here.

What was the failure cause? Ctb via hanging seems to be most common across the board - from celebrities to even underage suicides. I get the impression the sucess rate is relatively high despite those who fail.

But it is those who fail that I'm most want to hear about so I don't do what they did and end up surviving an attempt but seriously injured.

 

[WilliamKline]

This is from his personal blog not too long ago (translated)

And no: I was not happy that I had survived the attempt. How could I be? You want to die and then you wake up, without legs!

But didn't I think about the driver? No! Or to all those passengers? Also not. Is train suicide not terribly selfish? It certainly is !! At the same time, I dare to say that if you can still think of the driver - you realize: "There is someone up there!" - then you cannot make that step. Because at that moment there is still a "connection" between you and the world around you. You recognize "life". A major depression makes that connection disappear.

 

[MeltingHeart]

What was the failure cause? Ctb via hanging seems to be most common across the board - from celebrities to even underage suicides. I get the impression the sucess rate is relatively high despite those who fail.

But it is those who fail that I'm most want to hear about so I don't do what they did and end up surviving an attempt but seriously injured.

Oh apparently he randomly said to his mum "im just popping out- don't worry!" ( should def not have added - don't worry!) but as he had anxiety issues I think he didn't usually go out on his own on such a whim or something - anyway- she called the police immediately & think this chap got found in the near by woods aftr hng for - I can't remember the time - I think they said atleast 15 minutes or something - he did pass away in the end - after two years or so of being completely paralysed.

What was the failure cause? Ctb via hanging seems to be most common across the board - from celebrities to even underage suicides. I get the impression the sucess rate is relatively high despite those who fail.

But it is those who fail that I'm most want to hear about so I don't do what they did and end up surviving an attempt but seriously injured.

All the failures ( with injuries) have read about in the press are because they were found too soon

 

[Élégie]

There's nothing wrong with your post, nothing at all. The 'suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem' is a line often tauted in society as if it were a universal truth. Clearly for this man it wasn't and for many (far too many) it isn't.

What I do not like about him is his hypocrisy: one should own (up to) one's past and suicide attempts not be ashamed of them and denounce them as 'a mistake' but that's what you get when you institutionalize 'normalcy' and 'mental health' and build a secular religion around it in which blasphemers deserve condemnation and punishment (a 'diagnosis' of mental illness, being put in a madhouse and kept their against one's will, being force-fed 'medication'). I guess this case (sad as it may be) proves converts do make the best preachers but eventually he arrived at the truth or he could no longer deny it.

Life itself is a temporary problem but that doesn't mean one should suffer horrendously in exchange for a chance it might become better in the future. At a certain level of intensity of suffering and after a certain time period it no longer matters whether the problem could go away in some distant future: the very fact that life can contain so much suffering of such intensity proves it isn't worth the effort and ultimately a mistake.

Schopenhauer took this to be undeniable proof of the wretchedness of life: nature itself prounces this verdict clearly and openly for all to see and hear by means of death. By destroying the individuals in succession it makes it clear how much individual lives are worth: nothing. Yet we are made to walk the narrow, stony, difficult road from the cradle to the grave only to prove yet again what has already been proven billions of times before.

You're very eloquent and insightful. Thanks for sharing your perspective... I always enjoy reading your posts.

 

[*KNAZ*]

Thank you for posting this.
I went from having a good job and a house and material comforts to losing everything. I have no peace. No inner peace. No confidence that life will get better or that I can handle what may come my way. My life is constant stress. Distress. Depression. Worry. Anxiety. I live in constant fear of my health, losing my job, being unable to find new work, being homeless. I go to the doctor with chest pains and shortness of breath only to find out that physical body is ok.
Yes I have life but the quality is just not there. I am past the age cusp where life begins its traditional descent. And I'm tired. I don't have any fight left in me. And the sane sober rational choice is to quit while I'm ahead. There is nothing noble in suffering. And nothing abnormal or ill about making a rational choice to CTB. People just don't want to admit what is so obvious. When all people have left to use to encourage you are slogans and quips, then they have no true empathy or compassion. CTB is the ultimate act of self-care - mercy and compassion. I died inside months ago. My body just hasn't accepted the fact.

 

[MeltingHeart]

If the human body was better designed it would simply self- destruct after a prolonged period of pain- mental, psychological or physical -like when you hear about the cases or 'theories" that some one passes away due to a broken heart after a partner dying (which obvs. U only hear about in the elderly anyway) - I feel so broken - in my soul & spirit - I keep willing that I will just shut down some how & my heart will pack in or something - obvs. that is a complete fantasy & verging on the delusional- yet I can't understand how I can feel this bad & yet be stuck in life when I already feel like my life is so over.

 

[*KNAZ*]

If the human body was better designed it would simply self- destruct after a prolonged period of pain- mental or psychological -like when you hear about the cases or 'theories" that some one passes away due to a broken heart after a partner dying (which obvs. U only hear about in the elderly anyway) - I feel so broken - in my soul & spirit - I keep willing that I will just shut down some how & my heart will pack in or something - obvs. that is a complete fantasy & verging on the delusional- yet I can't understand how I can feel this bad & yet be stuck in life when I already feel like my life is so over.

Agreed. Wish the body would be more responsive to realities. The worst thing anyone could say to me would be "I wish you a long life".

 

[MeltingHeart]

Agreed. Wish the body would be more responsive to realities. The worst thing anyone could say to me would be "I wish you a long life".

god that would be the worst thing to hear - on a par for me as "do you want to"/ or " you can 'get better' " , im like wtf? i havent got flu- i deeply & strongly want to end my life "getting better" has got sweet f**k all to do with it! -in my case anyway

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

To Hades with anyone who has a problem with someone expressing a pro-suicide personal perspective (not forced-on-others). Yes, most of us here, at least I think, already know this (but thanks for more evidence we can share). People aren't "sick" for not wanting to be alive. It's an equally valid, if less prevalent, response to life's virtually inevitable pains. Finally, some professional psychologists and psychiatrists are coming forward to acknowledge the current mental health interventions do not work for many, many people. This in addition to the mounting biomedical evidence that, unlike other branches of medicine, psychiatry continues to fail to corroborate its cognition claims with hard, reproducible evidence. To be expected if the way we feel about life is, as with so many other tastes, not a matter of objective truth but instead point of view.

 

[MeltingHeart]

To Hades with anyone who has a problem with someone expressing a pro-suicide personal perspective (not forced-on-others). Yes, most of us here, at least I think, already know this (but thanks for more evidence we can share). People aren't "sick" for not wanting to be alive. It's an equally valid, if less prevalent, response to life's virtually inevitable pains. Finally, some professional psychologists and psychiatrists are coming forward to acknowledge the current mental health interventions do not work for many, many people. This in addition to the mounting biomedical evidence that, unlike other branches of medicine, psychiatry continues to fail to corroborate its cognition claims with hard, reproducible evidence. To be expected if the way we feel about life is, as with so many other tastes, not a matter of objective truth but instead point of view.

is Hades Hell?

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

is Hades Hell?

Pretty much.

 

[Jean Améry]

You're very eloquent and insightful. Thanks for sharing your perspective... I always enjoy reading your posts.

You're welcome. Thanks for the compliment. Have a nice day.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Oh apparently he randomly said to his mum "im just popping out- don't worry!" ( should def not have added - don't worry!) but as he had anxiety issues I think he didn't usually go out on his own on such a whim or something - anyway- she called the police immediately & think this chap got found in the near by woods aftr hng for - I can't remember the time - I think they said atleast 15 minutes or something - he did pass away in the end - after two years or so of being completely paralysed.

All the failures ( with injuries) have read about in the press are because they were found too soon

Oh apparently he randomly said to his mum "im just popping out- don't worry!" ( should def not have added - don't worry!) but as he had anxiety issues I think he didn't usually go out on his own on such a whim or something - anyway- she called the police immediately & think this chap got found in the near by woods aftr hng for - I can't remember the time - I think they said atleast 15 minutes or something - he did pass away in the end - after two years or so of being completely paralysed.

All the failures ( with injuries) have read about in the press are because they were found too soon

Can you cite anywhere on the net that he hung himself?

 

[MeltingHeart]

Can you cite anywhere on the net that he hung himself?

huh who? yr the news story i read was about a hanging- i wasnt talking about the guy in the wheelchair from the vid- on the Wiki page here- you will find the story and one other case also-that is why it is crucial if this is yr method to not be found early.