How is it really more painful than SN? I've read it supposed to have cns depression effects nd it's much rapidly acting!
Meditation guide
Always was, is, and always shall be.
- Jun 22, 2020
- 6,089
You and I can both read the same things about it. I haven't heard much if any discussion of it. PPH said it's very painful as I recall.
EvisceratedJester
|| What Else Could I Be But a Jester ||
- Oct 21, 2023
- 3,652
The PPH scores it a 6 out of 10 on peacefulness (SN is a 7) and I've seen others on here claim that it's not that peaceful and even painful, but idk. I don't really know if SA is great, since it's harder to get and the PPH also states that it poses a potential safety risk to anyone who may try to resuscitate you via mouth-to-mouth or comes into contact with your vomit.
Meditation guide
Always was, is, and always shall be.
- Jun 22, 2020
- 6,089
Isn't it an explosive? I remember thinking my fillings in my teeth would explode if it touched them.
It reacts with metal but it seems it's not actually that easy to generate an explosion U need to actually try, if U drink it quickly with water I'm sure Ur teeth won't be that much of a problem as it takes time anyway. (plus it reacts with specific metals like copper nd such)
アホペンギン
…
- Jul 10, 2023
- 2,199
SN is used to make explosives ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
For the OP, sodium azide could be a viable method since it does have it's own positive aspects which SN doesn't have. You can seal the drink to drink it later which is a pro but a con would be that it's very dangerous for those who come into contact with your vomit when "rescuing you" or when they find you. Have a sign up saying sodium azide was used.
SN is much better, though. What you could do, though is have a sign up saying sodium azide was used instead of SN so the "rescuing" process will be a lot harder and it'll be time consuming for those who intend to "rescue" you but that extra time will be on your side.
Well at least the advantage is that it does the job surely nd quickly (taken the right dose) even if it takes a little while U'd be in a state of coma nd there's no antidote so the ending is assured. also it's symptoms are actually quite similar to those of SN!
SA can build other metal-azides, for example lead azide or silver azide. Those are highly explosive because the can explode on their own when handled wrong.
I personally would use cyanide instead of SA but that's just my opinion and cyanide is also not the most peaceful method but quick and definitely lethal.
From what I have read and what I personally know and think and if I had to make a choice I'd go with SN (and the suggested medications according to the proven protocols).
SZ actually has cns depression effects nd it clears out from the body in a little over two hours so it's quick nd effective making it potentially less painful so why do u think SN is considered better? (vomiting risk a lot less with SZ as U might already know)!
Talvikki
Elementalist
- Nov 18, 2021
- 818
From ingestion of sodium azide, bystanders cannot become unwell; that is fake news.
アホペンギン
…
- Jul 10, 2023
- 2,199
Talvikki
Elementalist
- Nov 18, 2021
- 818
You are right. That is indeed still mentioned in the PPH.
I find it worrisome that "The Peaceful Pill Handbook" (PPH) is not up-to-date. It is a concern if information sources on suicide are not regularly updated, as accurate and current information is crucial.
This is the latest information regarding sodium azide:
The risks of secondary contamination in the treatment of a patient who has ingested sodium azide are very limited. After ingestion of sodium azide, the gas hydrazoic acid is formed upon contact with water in the stomach. Small amounts of this gas may be released with belching or present in the exhaled air. However, this is insufficient to cause serious intoxication in the healthcare provider or bystanders. Extensive personal protective equipment such as respiratory protection is not necessary.
https://verrichtingen.ambulancezorg.nl/vlpa/intoxicatie
The response from the Minister of Health in the Netherlands to questions about suicides using sodium azide emphasizes that the risk for healthcare providers treating a patient who has ingested sodium azide is very limited.
The National Poisons Information Center (NVIC) has conveyed this information to the Ministry of Health. Among the over fifty reports of suicide attempts or incidents involving sodium azide collected by the NVIC, there have been no signals that a healthcare provider has become seriously ill.
Occasionally, healthcare providers may experience mild symptoms such as irritation of mucous membranes, headaches, or a light-headed feeling. The stressful situation may also play a role in these symptoms.
All healthcare providers with mild symptoms after potential contact with these substances, as reported both in NVIC notifications and in those described in international literature, recovered without residual damage.
https://zoek.officielebekendmakingen.nl/ah-tk-20212022-2736.html
Wht's Ur take on the comparison between SN and azide, is SN still better though?!
Talvikki
Elementalist
- Nov 18, 2021
- 818
I think sodium nitrite is better, but I'm uncertain due to the limited number of sodium azide reports. I have 7 eyewitness reports of a sodium azide suicide. They are reports from the Netherlands. I have translated them into English.
*
Sodium azide - What do people who take the recommended 2 or 3 grams experience? Does it lead to a humane death?
It is certainly not always fast and not always peaceful,' notes toxicologist Antoinette van Riel of the National Poisons Information Centre in the Netherlands. 'It is a distorted view that this is an ideal substance.'
'We tell our members that in many cases, it goes well and peacefully, comparable to a natural death,' says the Last Will Cooperative Organisation for the 'right to die. 'But there are exceptions, with rolling eyes and convulsions.'
Philip Nitschke, author of The Peaceful Pill Handbook, predicts that Sodium Azide will become a cocktail of drugs. Painkillers and antiemetics alone are insufficient, he believes. 'You can add a sedative. Once asleep, spasms and a drop in blood pressure are no longer a problem.'
*
"The following testimonies with Sodium azide are mentioned in the Dutch media."
The suicides are described by eyewitnesses. It's important to note that only they were present. It is their perception of the events. This makes it difficult to verify.
*
64-year-old woman. She has been suffering from depression since the age of eighteen.
Eyewitness: Retired family doctor and her best friend.
Everything was arranged. The funeral, her will, a statement, the farewell letters...
The substance the woman has is known as substance X (Sodium azide). An effective remedy, according to the former family doctor. 'Once you take it, you're done for.' But it's also a remedy that requires careful consideration.
Around 4 in the morning, the woman had already started taking anti-emetic drugs. 'You can have convulsions. It's not all that pleasant, especially for those who are present.'
Half a day later, at 4 in the afternoon, it has to happen. But when the time comes, the former family doctor sees that the woman has become drowsy from the substantial dose of sleeping pills she took an hour earlier. It's a delicate balance for those present, he knows. 'I didn't say: You must take it now.' No, I said: 'You must make a decision now.' And she does.
The journey to death takes another four hours. The convulsions don't occur, but just before six, vomit flows from her mouth. She's already far gone, occasionally moaning, but to rinse her lips, the former doctor takes a glass of water. 'I couldn't use the glass on the table; the substance had been in it. I better not leave my fingerprints on it.' At 6, he himself has 'a little sandwich.'
Slowly, the woman breathes more slowly. 'Initially eight times per minute, and a little after 8, it stopped. That's when I immediately called the police."
*
Ank
Eyewitness: Volunteer for the right to die organization
"Moments before taking Sodium azide, she jokes, says the volunteer. 'She was relieved. Happy. As if the party was about to begin.' After ingestion, she starts talking about her life, but a few minutes later, she says, 'I feel something. I feel a struggle within myself.' Shortly after, she begins speaking incoherently. 'She repeated syllables, words, as if she were drunk. I held her hand.
She falls backward and starts breathing heavily. She lies still for a while. But then, unexpectedly, she sits up and looks at him. She calls his name. 'Thank you,' she says. She also mentions something about her daughters. It moves him.
'Hold me,' she says. After that, she starts convulsing, he says, a phase that lasts about a minute. 'It looked like an epileptic attack. It startled me. This was what I was afraid of. It was quite intense. Uncontrolled. But she didn't seem to be consciously experiencing it. Then her body went limp, and she began breathing more irregularly. It seemed a bit like snoring.' In total, it lasts an hour and a half. 'It was immediately clear that she was dead.'"
*
Duo, a man and a woman
Eyewitness: Volunteer for the right to die organization
The volunteer visits a man and a woman, a duo at their wits' end. 'They were happy,' says the volunteer. 'As if they were going on a school trip.' In the kitchen, they each spoon three capsules of Sodium azide with a full bowl of custard. Then they go upstairs to bed.
And then, says the volunteer, nothing happens for a very long time. Fifteen minutes pass, half an hour, three-quarters of an hour – nothing. 'They became nervous and asked each other: do you feel anything yet? They were very much watching each other. That might not have helped. They didn't surrender.'
The man feels nauseous. Hans tells him to vomit next to the bed. A small amount comes out.
'It's not going well,' says the woman.
'I see it too,' says the volunteer. 'But we have to wait. It has to work.' He tries to reassure them. But deep down, he doubts. 'I got a bit nervous. I thought: what's happening here? Will they survive this dose? I started wondering if I should eventually call 112.'
The two lie quietly on the bed. They don't touch each other and move hardly at all. Sometimes Hans thinks they're fading away. But then they start talking again.
'I feel weird,' says the man. 'I feel like I'm dying.'
'Oh, how beautiful this is, oh, how calm this is,' says the woman. But not much later, her mood changes. 'What the hell is this, it's fucking terrible,' she says.
Anxiously, the volunteer stares at the two on the bed. 'I wasn't really shocked,' he says. 'But I didn't know what was so terrible about it. I didn't want to ask questions that would keep them awake longer.'
Only after an hour and a half do they lose consciousness. Snoring, they breathe. The woman ultimately dies after two and a half hours. The man, fifteen minutes later.
Startled, the volunteer calls his wife. 'It didn't go well,' he says. 'At least: they are dead, but it shouldn't have happened this way. It took much too long.' In hindsight, he suspects it's because they took capsules with custard. On a full stomach, it might enter the bloodstream later. 'It seems to go fastest when you dissolve it in a glass of water.'"
*
Seventy-year-old woman
Eyewitness: Volunteer for the right to die organization
She's calm beforehand, having taken a tranquilizer. She drinks a glass of water with dissolved Sodium azide.
'Oh, now I'm going to die,' she says. 'How extraordinary.'
It happens quickly, very quickly. 'Within three minutes, she faded away. She was moving, and then she fell backward. She lifted an arm.' After that, she lies for a while with open eyes staring. 'I don't know if she saw anything. She raised one leg and straightened it again. Her right hand came up slowly a few times – almost like a greeting.' The movements last about twenty minutes, says the volunteer. 'Then she lay breathing for another hour. After that, it was quiet.' In total, it takes an hour and a half."
*
Maud
Eyewitness: Her two sons
A few minutes after the 81-year-old Maud took Sodium azide, it begins.
"Oh, I feel everything," she says to her sons. "I'm dizzy."
Shortly after, she mentions feeling the need to vomit. Her sons search for a pan in the kitchen, but she manages to keep it in.
She starts feeling warm, and her sweater has to come off. They can feel her sweating on her hands. Later, she struggles to walk properly. She staggers. Her sons guide her to bed and sit beside her. One holds her hands, the other strokes her head.
The brothers feel calm; they've discussed everything beforehand. Occasionally, they exchange glances to check if the other is holding up. "We were determined to help her through this," says Rens. Steven adds, "The consultant had mentioned that we could leave if it got intense." They stay.
Their mother keeps her eyes closed. She doesn't say much.
"We saw that a lot was happening in her body," says Steven. "It must have been intense. But she showed little of it." Rens adds, "I think she was working very hard to concentrate, to control herself. She wanted to keep it inside, with everything she had. So that we would be bothered as little as possible. That's how she approached life as well."
After about twenty minutes, their mother suddenly starts babbling. Her sons hold her. It lasts a few minutes. And then, they say, she's gone. Unconscious.
For over three-quarters of an hour, she continues to breathe. It's calm. No spasms, no seizures, no foam at the mouth.
"When she stopped breathing, something lifted off me," says Steven. "She had made it through." After that, the brothers hug each other. They are sad, relieved, content – all at once.
Steven says, "I thought: this went well. Maybe she suffered intensely, but compared to my father, who fought for three weeks, this was really short. I think many people forget that even a natural death can be endless. This was much more beautiful."
That same evening, they are interviewed by the police. "The officers were very empathetic."
Both sons look back on their mother's passing with a good feeling. It was intimate and intense, they feel.
Steven says, "She prepared this very well, both for herself and for us. In the months leading up to it, we were so involved that we had already gone through a part of the grieving process before her death. Together with her. That was very special."
Maud's passing proves that death with Sodium azide can also be gentle. In hindsight, the sons believe that the thorough preparation, family acceptance, and the calm environment contributed to everything going so well. "The process beforehand was crucial," says Steven. "We had discussed all scenarios with each other. If unexpected things happen, panic sets in, and it can go wrong."
"My mother felt confident because we were there," says Rens. "She didn't have to do it alone."
*
Johan Ooms
Eyewitness: Jaap van Riemsdijk and Kathenka
On May 14, 2020, at 10:45 a.m., Johan takes capsules containing sodium azide. Kathenka and I are present. Assisting in self-determination is illegal, so we could only offer comfort and moral support. We didn't even hand him the water with which he swallowed the capsules.
Around 11:00 a.m., Johan becomes dizzy, followed by chills, tingling fingers, and intestinal issues. When asked, he mentions no headache or nausea. The previously taken medication is doing its job.
Around 11:15 a.m., Johan's body becomes more restless. He breathes out in puffs, occasionally groans, and moves his arms and legs. Communication is still possible. We try to support him with words to fulfill his mission. "Hold on, Johan. Soon, you'll lose consciousness and feel nothing."
Suddenly, Kathenka lovingly says, "You look younger." Indeed, muscle relaxation softens Johan's facial features. He understands and smiles.
Around 11:30 a.m., Johan becomes confused and starts delirium. Some time later, he seems to lose consciousness. Delirium stops. We observe occasional small muscle twitches. We hear Johan breathing heavily and irregularly, along with rattling. Gradually, these symptoms disappear.
From 12:00 p.m., breathing occasionally pauses. Johan peacefully slips away from life. Suddenly, it's quiet. We wait ten minutes to be sure. It's 12:30 p.m., an hour and three-quarters after taking the substance.
Despite the challenges in Johan's dying process, Kathenka and I didn't sense the harrowing struggle that some (presumed) experts in the media have suggested. Johan knew part of the journey might be difficult. His intense desire to die likely aided him. That thought supported Kathenka and me during Johan's challenging moments.
Jaap van Riemsdijk about the death of Johan Ooms.
"The video is in Dutch. You can subtitle it on YouTube.
*
Sodium azide - What do people who take the recommended 2 or 3 grams experience? Does it lead to a humane death?
It is certainly not always fast and not always peaceful,' notes toxicologist Antoinette van Riel of the National Poisons Information Centre in the Netherlands. 'It is a distorted view that this is an ideal substance.'
'We tell our members that in many cases, it goes well and peacefully, comparable to a natural death,' says the Last Will Cooperative Organisation for the 'right to die. 'But there are exceptions, with rolling eyes and convulsions.'
Philip Nitschke, author of The Peaceful Pill Handbook, predicts that Sodium Azide will become a cocktail of drugs. Painkillers and antiemetics alone are insufficient, he believes. 'You can add a sedative. Once asleep, spasms and a drop in blood pressure are no longer a problem.'
*
"The following testimonies with Sodium azide are mentioned in the Dutch media."
The suicides are described by eyewitnesses. It's important to note that only they were present. It is their perception of the events. This makes it difficult to verify.
*
64-year-old woman. She has been suffering from depression since the age of eighteen.
Eyewitness: Retired family doctor and her best friend.
Everything was arranged. The funeral, her will, a statement, the farewell letters...
The substance the woman has is known as substance X (Sodium azide). An effective remedy, according to the former family doctor. 'Once you take it, you're done for.' But it's also a remedy that requires careful consideration.
Around 4 in the morning, the woman had already started taking anti-emetic drugs. 'You can have convulsions. It's not all that pleasant, especially for those who are present.'
Half a day later, at 4 in the afternoon, it has to happen. But when the time comes, the former family doctor sees that the woman has become drowsy from the substantial dose of sleeping pills she took an hour earlier. It's a delicate balance for those present, he knows. 'I didn't say: You must take it now.' No, I said: 'You must make a decision now.' And she does.
The journey to death takes another four hours. The convulsions don't occur, but just before six, vomit flows from her mouth. She's already far gone, occasionally moaning, but to rinse her lips, the former doctor takes a glass of water. 'I couldn't use the glass on the table; the substance had been in it. I better not leave my fingerprints on it.' At 6, he himself has 'a little sandwich.'
Slowly, the woman breathes more slowly. 'Initially eight times per minute, and a little after 8, it stopped. That's when I immediately called the police."
*
Ank
Eyewitness: Volunteer for the right to die organization
"Moments before taking Sodium azide, she jokes, says the volunteer. 'She was relieved. Happy. As if the party was about to begin.' After ingestion, she starts talking about her life, but a few minutes later, she says, 'I feel something. I feel a struggle within myself.' Shortly after, she begins speaking incoherently. 'She repeated syllables, words, as if she were drunk. I held her hand.
She falls backward and starts breathing heavily. She lies still for a while. But then, unexpectedly, she sits up and looks at him. She calls his name. 'Thank you,' she says. She also mentions something about her daughters. It moves him.
'Hold me,' she says. After that, she starts convulsing, he says, a phase that lasts about a minute. 'It looked like an epileptic attack. It startled me. This was what I was afraid of. It was quite intense. Uncontrolled. But she didn't seem to be consciously experiencing it. Then her body went limp, and she began breathing more irregularly. It seemed a bit like snoring.' In total, it lasts an hour and a half. 'It was immediately clear that she was dead.'"
*
Duo, a man and a woman
Eyewitness: Volunteer for the right to die organization
The volunteer visits a man and a woman, a duo at their wits' end. 'They were happy,' says the volunteer. 'As if they were going on a school trip.' In the kitchen, they each spoon three capsules of Sodium azide with a full bowl of custard. Then they go upstairs to bed.
And then, says the volunteer, nothing happens for a very long time. Fifteen minutes pass, half an hour, three-quarters of an hour – nothing. 'They became nervous and asked each other: do you feel anything yet? They were very much watching each other. That might not have helped. They didn't surrender.'
The man feels nauseous. Hans tells him to vomit next to the bed. A small amount comes out.
'It's not going well,' says the woman.
'I see it too,' says the volunteer. 'But we have to wait. It has to work.' He tries to reassure them. But deep down, he doubts. 'I got a bit nervous. I thought: what's happening here? Will they survive this dose? I started wondering if I should eventually call 112.'
The two lie quietly on the bed. They don't touch each other and move hardly at all. Sometimes Hans thinks they're fading away. But then they start talking again.
'I feel weird,' says the man. 'I feel like I'm dying.'
'Oh, how beautiful this is, oh, how calm this is,' says the woman. But not much later, her mood changes. 'What the hell is this, it's fucking terrible,' she says.
Anxiously, the volunteer stares at the two on the bed. 'I wasn't really shocked,' he says. 'But I didn't know what was so terrible about it. I didn't want to ask questions that would keep them awake longer.'
Only after an hour and a half do they lose consciousness. Snoring, they breathe. The woman ultimately dies after two and a half hours. The man, fifteen minutes later.
Startled, the volunteer calls his wife. 'It didn't go well,' he says. 'At least: they are dead, but it shouldn't have happened this way. It took much too long.' In hindsight, he suspects it's because they took capsules with custard. On a full stomach, it might enter the bloodstream later. 'It seems to go fastest when you dissolve it in a glass of water.'"
*
Seventy-year-old woman
Eyewitness: Volunteer for the right to die organization
She's calm beforehand, having taken a tranquilizer. She drinks a glass of water with dissolved Sodium azide.
'Oh, now I'm going to die,' she says. 'How extraordinary.'
It happens quickly, very quickly. 'Within three minutes, she faded away. She was moving, and then she fell backward. She lifted an arm.' After that, she lies for a while with open eyes staring. 'I don't know if she saw anything. She raised one leg and straightened it again. Her right hand came up slowly a few times – almost like a greeting.' The movements last about twenty minutes, says the volunteer. 'Then she lay breathing for another hour. After that, it was quiet.' In total, it takes an hour and a half."
*
Maud
Eyewitness: Her two sons
A few minutes after the 81-year-old Maud took Sodium azide, it begins.
"Oh, I feel everything," she says to her sons. "I'm dizzy."
Shortly after, she mentions feeling the need to vomit. Her sons search for a pan in the kitchen, but she manages to keep it in.
She starts feeling warm, and her sweater has to come off. They can feel her sweating on her hands. Later, she struggles to walk properly. She staggers. Her sons guide her to bed and sit beside her. One holds her hands, the other strokes her head.
The brothers feel calm; they've discussed everything beforehand. Occasionally, they exchange glances to check if the other is holding up. "We were determined to help her through this," says Rens. Steven adds, "The consultant had mentioned that we could leave if it got intense." They stay.
Their mother keeps her eyes closed. She doesn't say much.
"We saw that a lot was happening in her body," says Steven. "It must have been intense. But she showed little of it." Rens adds, "I think she was working very hard to concentrate, to control herself. She wanted to keep it inside, with everything she had. So that we would be bothered as little as possible. That's how she approached life as well."
After about twenty minutes, their mother suddenly starts babbling. Her sons hold her. It lasts a few minutes. And then, they say, she's gone. Unconscious.
For over three-quarters of an hour, she continues to breathe. It's calm. No spasms, no seizures, no foam at the mouth.
"When she stopped breathing, something lifted off me," says Steven. "She had made it through." After that, the brothers hug each other. They are sad, relieved, content – all at once.
Steven says, "I thought: this went well. Maybe she suffered intensely, but compared to my father, who fought for three weeks, this was really short. I think many people forget that even a natural death can be endless. This was much more beautiful."
That same evening, they are interviewed by the police. "The officers were very empathetic."
Both sons look back on their mother's passing with a good feeling. It was intimate and intense, they feel.
Steven says, "She prepared this very well, both for herself and for us. In the months leading up to it, we were so involved that we had already gone through a part of the grieving process before her death. Together with her. That was very special."
Maud's passing proves that death with Sodium azide can also be gentle. In hindsight, the sons believe that the thorough preparation, family acceptance, and the calm environment contributed to everything going so well. "The process beforehand was crucial," says Steven. "We had discussed all scenarios with each other. If unexpected things happen, panic sets in, and it can go wrong."
"My mother felt confident because we were there," says Rens. "She didn't have to do it alone."
*
Johan Ooms
Eyewitness: Jaap van Riemsdijk and Kathenka
On May 14, 2020, at 10:45 a.m., Johan takes capsules containing sodium azide. Kathenka and I are present. Assisting in self-determination is illegal, so we could only offer comfort and moral support. We didn't even hand him the water with which he swallowed the capsules.
Around 11:00 a.m., Johan becomes dizzy, followed by chills, tingling fingers, and intestinal issues. When asked, he mentions no headache or nausea. The previously taken medication is doing its job.
Around 11:15 a.m., Johan's body becomes more restless. He breathes out in puffs, occasionally groans, and moves his arms and legs. Communication is still possible. We try to support him with words to fulfill his mission. "Hold on, Johan. Soon, you'll lose consciousness and feel nothing."
Suddenly, Kathenka lovingly says, "You look younger." Indeed, muscle relaxation softens Johan's facial features. He understands and smiles.
Around 11:30 a.m., Johan becomes confused and starts delirium. Some time later, he seems to lose consciousness. Delirium stops. We observe occasional small muscle twitches. We hear Johan breathing heavily and irregularly, along with rattling. Gradually, these symptoms disappear.
From 12:00 p.m., breathing occasionally pauses. Johan peacefully slips away from life. Suddenly, it's quiet. We wait ten minutes to be sure. It's 12:30 p.m., an hour and three-quarters after taking the substance.
Despite the challenges in Johan's dying process, Kathenka and I didn't sense the harrowing struggle that some (presumed) experts in the media have suggested. Johan knew part of the journey might be difficult. His intense desire to die likely aided him. That thought supported Kathenka and me during Johan's challenging moments.
Jaap van Riemsdijk about the death of Johan Ooms.
"The video is in Dutch. You can subtitle it on YouTube.
This depends on where you live. If you can't obtain it you can find more or less easy ways using a search engine how to make it and there's also a guide to make it here (it's dangerous and lab experience is recommended):
MAKING CYANIDE POISON| detailed receipe|painless death
MAKING CYANIDE(potassium cyanide) !!!!Easy method in the bottom but read the whole thing!!!!! WHAT: Cyanide or potassium cyanide is A super strong poison. You die within seconds with no pain. HOW IT WORKS: The poison blocks the ability of the body cells to get oxygen. So you suffocate on...
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