Raggas
Suicide is self expression
- Dec 31, 2018
- 306
There's been no one who received permanent damage from a failed SN attempt. We've had plenty of folks report back after an SN attempt and they were fine.
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There's been no one who received permanent damage from a failed SN attempt. We've had plenty of folks report back after an SN attempt and they were fine.
Sorry, I know this has probably been covered a lot, but is SN a bad method for people who deal with a lot of anxiety? I've read mixed reports on what the actual experience is like. Like do you just pass out pretty quickly or is it likely to induce a lot of panic etc beforehand? The stuff about a racing heart scares me since I'm a pussy. Any hopes of it being peaceful?
GreenDagny
Member
- Oct 9, 2019
- 49
Yes, but a lot of people who did from natural causes have a painful and torturous death as well (car accidents, cancer, organs shutting down in general from old age). I feel SN may be painful but not agonizing and also fast (even 2 hours is better than a lifetime of misery). Just take enough to make sure you ctb but not vomit it all (I am waiting on meto and Tagamet now). I think 30 grams should be enough.
That's true. I guess I would like my death to be vaguely peaceful though. And I worry about seeking help if I'm in a state of extreme distress or confusion.
GreenDagny
Member
- Oct 9, 2019
- 49
Make sure you do not have your phone and are in a place away from people so any survival instinct is not able to be met with success. I was just wondering if those people were in genuine pain or if they did not die as fast as they thought they would and had a change of heart. Maybe partial suspension would be the best for me.
a year ago it seems people believed SN to be painful with many calling for medical assistance. Now most post are about how SN is the best method. Just in search of real answers
Roger
I Liked Ike
- May 11, 2019
- 973
It's very interesting to follow the development of comments about the SN method by delving into old posts.
My take on the point you make is that people have come to realise that the potentially unpleasant effects of SN can be ameliorated by appropriate antiemetics and antacids.
I guess that most failures are due to missing the logic of the SN, that is toxic and deadly but can't be treated like a sedative, because it isnt.
To be quick, enough peaceful and effective, it must be purest as possible, perfectly mixed with the minimum amount of water BUT enough to guarantee the full saturation of the powder, that means that must not be residual powerder in the mixture, that has to be completely trasnsparent, and for the other stuff people would like to mix:
- Metoproclamide
- Tagamet
- DMSO
- and..oh my god.. putting the SN in pills!
That's wrong, wrong, wrong.
I mean, antiemetic is recommended, but more that one hour distant from SN.
***When the SN is assumed, must be 100% liquid, 99% pure NaNo2, stomach 100% empty***
Any damned chemical that reach the stomach, make it to release hydrocloric acid.
Here what's wrong in the process.
NaNo2 (Sodium Nitrite) = Mathemoglobine
Methemoglobine = Hypoxia
Hypoxia = Faint, sleep, peaceful and quick CTB.
---OR---
Hydrocloric acid + NaNo2 (Sodrium Nitrite) = NaNo3 (Sodium Nitrate)
NaNo3 = Pain, disease, vomit, failure possible painful and slow CTB
Surely i cant proof what i'm sayin'g, i just can put my minimal experience as medicine student (3rd year, anatomy/traumatology) and got enough medication books to understand how, many chemicals reach the bloodstream, so is logical that the quickest the pure nitrite enters the bloodstream, quickest will the oxygin will be inhibited from blood stream, and peacefull the pass will be.
So it is basical to DO NOT let the stomach and other body process, to convert NaNo2 into NaNo3. At this point, is also very important to store the SN into an air-proof bottle/package.
It is very important to understand also that the sold bottles may have been exposed to oxygen, passed from box to box, and had a time of storage, so a 99% purity declared by sellers, may be something around 90% nitrite and 10% nitrate. That's why it is very important in all the process to keep che chemical Nano2 as purest as possible.
This is the bad loop: Trying to make the process less painful with antacids, antiemetics, pain relievers.. actually make the process more painfull because and a controversial process where the hydrocloric acid generated by this chemicals, interact with nano2, changing it into nano3.
To be quick, enough peaceful and effective, it must be purest as possible, perfectly mixed with the minimum amount of water BUT enough to guarantee the full saturation of the powder, that means that must not be residual powerder in the mixture, that has to be completely trasnsparent, and for the other stuff people would like to mix:
- Metoproclamide
- Tagamet
- DMSO
- and..oh my god.. putting the SN in pills!
That's wrong, wrong, wrong.
I mean, antiemetic is recommended, but more that one hour distant from SN.
***When the SN is assumed, must be 100% liquid, 99% pure NaNo2, stomach 100% empty***
Any damned chemical that reach the stomach, make it to release hydrocloric acid.
Here what's wrong in the process.
NaNo2 (Sodium Nitrite) = Mathemoglobine
Methemoglobine = Hypoxia
Hypoxia = Faint, sleep, peaceful and quick CTB.
---OR---
Hydrocloric acid + NaNo2 (Sodrium Nitrite) = NaNo3 (Sodium Nitrate)
NaNo3 = Pain, disease, vomit, failure possible painful and slow CTB
Surely i cant proof what i'm sayin'g, i just can put my minimal experience as medicine student (3rd year, anatomy/traumatology) and got enough medication books to understand how, many chemicals reach the bloodstream, so is logical that the quickest the pure nitrite enters the bloodstream, quickest will the oxygin will be inhibited from blood stream, and peacefull the pass will be.
So it is basical to DO NOT let the stomach and other body process, to convert NaNo2 into NaNo3. At this point, is also very important to store the SN into an air-proof bottle/package.
It is very important to understand also that the sold bottles may have been exposed to oxygen, passed from box to box, and had a time of storage, so a 99% purity declared by sellers, may be something around 90% nitrite and 10% nitrate. That's why it is very important in all the process to keep che chemical Nano2 as purest as possible.
This is the bad loop: Trying to make the process less painful with antacids, antiemetics, pain relievers.. actually make the process more painfull because and a controversial process where the hydrocloric acid generated by this chemicals, interact with nano2, changing it into nano3.
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GerMann
year of birth: 1972
- Nov 30, 2018
- 274
dominodux so what about the right anti-acid? Is it important to take and when?
MeltingHeart
Visionary
- Sep 9, 2019
- 2,151
Is Hydrochloric acid produced naturally in the stomach? So that's what the antacid is for?
That's another controversia! Feeling less stomach acidity with magnesium, make people thinking that there is not more hydrocloric acid in the stomach and/or it stops interacting chemically, just changing it's ph!
It is useless! The process of CTB with SN is as easy and quick as 1..2..3..
1) Fasten from the morning, after a good breakfast (too much fasten, may drive stomach to acidity)
2) Evening, two meto 1.5 hours before SN
3) 25g of SN well mixed with water 50/70ml of water as purest as possible
All the other stuff are both useless/mental speculation
That's my 2 cents opinion.
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MeltingHeart
Visionary
- Sep 9, 2019
- 2,151
woah game changer/controversy?! Gosh I just dont know what to think now, so no antacid or h2 blocker IYO-i've been trying to figure out which one to use for weeks now! lol. the pph recommends one, but who knows-perhaps you are right-keep it simple...
traumatology must be an interesting one to study,guess it must include a little on self-inflicted trauma? Do/ did you want to a doctor of some kind? A specialist?
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a.n.kirillov
velle non discitur
- Nov 17, 2019
- 1,832
This is pretty interesting. Now the question becomes how to test the purity of the sn. Since many here have it from the Polish seller, it would suffice if a few people could provide that information.
That was time ago, I've quit now and at my actual state, nonsense keep studying. Anyway traumatology, at least in my country is mostly about accidents, broken bones, ligaments and muscolar damage and several level of head concussion.
noctiva
the invisible girl
- Nov 6, 2019
- 393
An increase in stomach pH from 3.0 does in fact lead to a dissociation of HCl into H+ and Cl-, and as such, also to a decrease in HCl . Milk of magnesia for example (wiki source): 'As an antacid, magnesium hydroxide (...) works by simple neutralization, where the hydroxide ions from the Mg(OH)2 combine with acidic H+ ions produced in the form of hydrochloric acid by parietal cells in the stomach to produce water.'
Chemically speaking: Mg(OH)2(s) + 2HCl(aq) → 2H2O(l) + MgCl2(aq)
As such, the amount of HCl present in the stomach is decreased, the pH is raised and the amount of NaNO2 that can pass on into the intestine is increased and NaNO3 production is decreased.
I agree that there are too many potential drugs floating around the SN regimen, but you are expressing very hardcore opinions here as fact.
I agree that an antacid is not necessary, an antiemetic is not necessary, sedatives are not necessary, even fasting is not necessary, if you look at the case reports where people have accidentally ingested SN with their food and died successfully, nothing is necessary but SN.
Just because SN is the substance that kills, rejecting the research and suggestions made and used by a lot of people that have successfully ctb'd here, is rather reckless.
Of course, everything is unnecessary if you increase your dosage and keep it in.
The idea is, that:
Antacid decreases NaNO3 production and allows a higher concentration of NaNO2 to pass on into the intestine. The question here is: How much stomach acid do you have to begin with? Seeing as fasting increases the concentration, this may be a good idea, especially for people that already have problems with stomach pH/ heartburn. But this a question that has to be addressed on an individual basis, so the recommendation for an antacid is good. Of course, if you take a massive overdose of SN, it doesn't matter if you have some conversion of nitrite to nitrate, seeing as the volume of HCl is finite in the stomach while the concentration you ingest hopefully by far overpowers this. But again, we're dealing with unknown concentrations and physiological differences between individuals, so it should not be dismissed out of hand.
Antiemetic is recommended because people, if you look at older forum posts here and the changes in the PPH that have been made over the years, have reported vomiting as a side effect. As such, an antiemetic is a good addition. Despite vomiting some people have died, so yes, it is not needed, as long as enough SN is passed on into the intestine. But do you want to gamble if you will spend the last minutes of your life projectile vomiting and then die, or you projectile vomit and don't die? So again, it is a recommendation that should be made and people should decide for themselves. Do they have a sensitive stomach? Are they nervous and scared? An antiemetic in this case is a good idea to add.
Capsules are also a method that should not be dismissed out of hand. People are different and have different preferences. As someone working in the drug field, I personally would recommend capsules as an addition for the following reason: If you drink SN, you get a large spike in concentrations which then as time passes decreases. So you have an early peak followed by a faster drop. If you add capsules to the mix, which lead to a slow, delayed release, you will be able to maintain higher concentrations over a prolonged period of time. This should at least in theory lead to a faster death. Is there proof? No. We don't have enough data, we do not have enough case studies, we have some medical papers, we have some idea of how pharmacology works, and anecdotal evidence from people here on this site who never logged in again.
Dismissing everything out of hand as 'useless' and 'wrong, wrong, wrong' seems arrogant.
If you are brave enough to just take your SN and be done with it, that's great. But dismissing the debate that has been going on and simplifying and unsettling members coming to terms with the method is not the way to go.
That's just my two cents.
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GerMann
year of birth: 1972
- Nov 30, 2018
- 274
Which time regime do you suggest for the Milk of magnesia, as antiacid for a sn-suicid?
noctiva
the invisible girl
- Nov 6, 2019
- 393
Let me see if I can somehow answer the question, but I need to go a bit broader for this, so you will not get a straightforward answer, I am sorry!
I want to first say: What will be in this post is my opinion formed on the research that I have done. I do not claim that this is the way to go, I do not claim to have done fully exhaustive research on this.
I want to start with the antacid question in general. I personally do not like the usage of proton pump inhibitors for myself, nor that of H2-R antagonists such as Tagamet and Rantidine, who through H2-R binding faster but with less efficacy than PPIs act indirectly on the proton pumps present in parietal cells in the stomach (EDIT: I oversimplified drugs inhibiting the proton pumps in the stomach as proton pump inhibitors). Proton pump inhibitors and H2-R antagonists will inhibit the proton pumps in the stomach. They lead to a long-lasting reduction of stomach acid production, not stomach acid. Taking this type of drug half an hour/ an hour before taking SN will not do much to the HCl content in the stomach. The HCl already in the stomach will not be affected, merely the production of new HCl, which is great if you want to not have a high HCl amount in your stomach after your next meal, but before SN it will not lead to the desired effect. The time to act for this type of drug is quite slow and it requires as far as I understand it, at least one more meal before your HCl concentration is lowered (the meal will use up the already existing HCl in your stomach, the proton pump inhibition will result in a lower concentration of new HCl produced, so only at this point your HCl concentration in your stomach is decreased). So this is the perfect drug to use if you do the 24h or 48 h regimen of meto and you do the proton pump inhibitor/ H2-R antagonist in parallel. But for immediate, short acting drugs that reduce HCl that has already been produced and is present in your stomach, proton pump inhibitors and H2-R antagonists are not my choice of drug.
I will personally go with milk of magnesia for that exact reason. It will act very fast, on the HCl that is present in the stomach, not the one that will be produced over the next x hours. From what I have read, it is difficult to assess when to take it as usually it is not done in advance, it is more of a 'Oh, I have heartburn now, let's take it' kind of drug. People suffering from heartburn have reported they felt better within 15 - 20 minutes after ingestion, which is fast. This is also what the pharmacist told me, when I asked her when my stomach would stop to burn.. (You guessed it, I've never had heartburn in my life, but I had to ask to get the information needed). So personally, I will take it 15 - 20 minutes before the SN.
Now to cover the question of amount.. this is tricky. Because you want to take enough to neutralize a large portion of the HCl, but you don't want to trigger the apparently very strong laxative function that milk of magnesia also has. Apparently, 'For constipation problems, it may take 30 minutes to 6 hours to produce a bowel movement.' (Source: https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-326/milk-of-magnesia-oral/details) I have done a test with 5 ml for myself. I have low stomach acid to begin with, so I might go for the recommended 10 ml dose or stick with the 5 ml, but I will not double it as some have suggested. I think dying is hard enough as it is, I don't need to have the runs at the same time.
One reason I will also stay with milk of magnesia is because of this tidbit I found (same source as above): high magnesium can result in a slow/ weakend heartbeat. Seeing as SN can lead to tachycardia, this might be a way to (minimally, mind you) counteract that.
This is a huge amount of text, but I don't want to just give you a 'Go with xx minutes before', because I don't know the exact answer, I am a guniea pig for this as much as the next guy on the forum. There is no recipe for death by SN, so I thought if I give you my reasoning you can either accept or reject it based on the information given, rather than believe in a magical number I pulled out of my *ss.
My God, I'm sorry, I write too long posts.
I want to first say: What will be in this post is my opinion formed on the research that I have done. I do not claim that this is the way to go, I do not claim to have done fully exhaustive research on this.
I want to start with the antacid question in general. I personally do not like the usage of proton pump inhibitors for myself, nor that of H2-R antagonists such as Tagamet and Rantidine, who through H2-R binding faster but with less efficacy than PPIs act indirectly on the proton pumps present in parietal cells in the stomach (EDIT: I oversimplified drugs inhibiting the proton pumps in the stomach as proton pump inhibitors). Proton pump inhibitors and H2-R antagonists will inhibit the proton pumps in the stomach. They lead to a long-lasting reduction of stomach acid production, not stomach acid. Taking this type of drug half an hour/ an hour before taking SN will not do much to the HCl content in the stomach. The HCl already in the stomach will not be affected, merely the production of new HCl, which is great if you want to not have a high HCl amount in your stomach after your next meal, but before SN it will not lead to the desired effect. The time to act for this type of drug is quite slow and it requires as far as I understand it, at least one more meal before your HCl concentration is lowered (the meal will use up the already existing HCl in your stomach, the proton pump inhibition will result in a lower concentration of new HCl produced, so only at this point your HCl concentration in your stomach is decreased). So this is the perfect drug to use if you do the 24h or 48 h regimen of meto and you do the proton pump inhibitor/ H2-R antagonist in parallel. But for immediate, short acting drugs that reduce HCl that has already been produced and is present in your stomach, proton pump inhibitors and H2-R antagonists are not my choice of drug.
I will personally go with milk of magnesia for that exact reason. It will act very fast, on the HCl that is present in the stomach, not the one that will be produced over the next x hours. From what I have read, it is difficult to assess when to take it as usually it is not done in advance, it is more of a 'Oh, I have heartburn now, let's take it' kind of drug. People suffering from heartburn have reported they felt better within 15 - 20 minutes after ingestion, which is fast. This is also what the pharmacist told me, when I asked her when my stomach would stop to burn.. (You guessed it, I've never had heartburn in my life, but I had to ask to get the information needed). So personally, I will take it 15 - 20 minutes before the SN.
Now to cover the question of amount.. this is tricky. Because you want to take enough to neutralize a large portion of the HCl, but you don't want to trigger the apparently very strong laxative function that milk of magnesia also has. Apparently, 'For constipation problems, it may take 30 minutes to 6 hours to produce a bowel movement.' (Source: https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-326/milk-of-magnesia-oral/details) I have done a test with 5 ml for myself. I have low stomach acid to begin with, so I might go for the recommended 10 ml dose or stick with the 5 ml, but I will not double it as some have suggested. I think dying is hard enough as it is, I don't need to have the runs at the same time.
One reason I will also stay with milk of magnesia is because of this tidbit I found (same source as above): high magnesium can result in a slow/ weakend heartbeat. Seeing as SN can lead to tachycardia, this might be a way to (minimally, mind you) counteract that.
This is a huge amount of text, but I don't want to just give you a 'Go with xx minutes before', because I don't know the exact answer, I am a guniea pig for this as much as the next guy on the forum. There is no recipe for death by SN, so I thought if I give you my reasoning you can either accept or reject it based on the information given, rather than believe in a magical number I pulled out of my *ss.
My God, I'm sorry, I write too long posts.
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howard
Experienced
- Sep 13, 2019
- 268
I'm going to take 25g and am 125kg. From what I've read 15 to 25 g is the range that probably is around ld 90+for most humans.
Thank you for some great fully researched info
I plan sn exit soon so this is the kind of info I need.
Are you saying a small meal not far before sn is a good thing to reduce hcl? Maybe a piece of toast 2 hrs before?
I plan to chew on some rennies (caco3?) about an hour before, or should I use the milk of magnesia?
Please dont apologise for long, informative posts, I think your doing a great service to all
Thank you
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Hydrocloric Acid is not always present in the stomach, instead for most of time it isnt there.
It is released on some events:
1) On times basis, when it is lunch time a gastrine ormone is released controlled by metabolism
2) when you are starving, gastrine is released
3) when instamine is released (allergy, and reaction to any chemical)
3) When aceticoline is released, that is when stimulation happens, like smell of food, something in mouth, something (anything!). Also when you simply SEE food, differently from gastrine, that is endocrine, aceticoline is brain generated, and that's why i stressed to not take any medication with SN or a little earlier. Anything that is ingested may increase immediately level of HCI. Including antacid and magnesia.
Raising the ph of hydrocloric acid, make someone to not feel heartburn, but does not guarantee that nitrite wont become nitrate when mixes with it.
Even if i'm not 100% sure of this, it is just my suspect.
Lowering volume of acid instead, give some more hints that the nitrite may pass to intestinal tract without changing his state to nitrate.
Best ways to have, generally, a minor amount of HCI in the stomach is to lower to zero the quantity of any chemical and food, prior the assumption of SN, also a proton inibitor regimen for 24 hours may help in lowering general HCI.
Exception for antiemetic, took somewhat 1 hour before, bcause it is very important to not throw when SN. Any other medication may not help in the matter of acidity (until the correct interaction into body: nano2 -> nano3 is demostrated) and in pain (nano3, may give pain, troubles and potential fail)
It is released on some events:
1) On times basis, when it is lunch time a gastrine ormone is released controlled by metabolism
2) when you are starving, gastrine is released
3) when instamine is released (allergy, and reaction to any chemical)
3) When aceticoline is released, that is when stimulation happens, like smell of food, something in mouth, something (anything!). Also when you simply SEE food, differently from gastrine, that is endocrine, aceticoline is brain generated, and that's why i stressed to not take any medication with SN or a little earlier. Anything that is ingested may increase immediately level of HCI. Including antacid and magnesia.
Raising the ph of hydrocloric acid, make someone to not feel heartburn, but does not guarantee that nitrite wont become nitrate when mixes with it.
Even if i'm not 100% sure of this, it is just my suspect.
Lowering volume of acid instead, give some more hints that the nitrite may pass to intestinal tract without changing his state to nitrate.
Best ways to have, generally, a minor amount of HCI in the stomach is to lower to zero the quantity of any chemical and food, prior the assumption of SN, also a proton inibitor regimen for 24 hours may help in lowering general HCI.
Exception for antiemetic, took somewhat 1 hour before, bcause it is very important to not throw when SN. Any other medication may not help in the matter of acidity (until the correct interaction into body: nano2 -> nano3 is demostrated) and in pain (nano3, may give pain, troubles and potential fail)
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howard
Experienced
- Sep 13, 2019
- 268
That's the big question isn't it, in a nutshell its what we need to know
I hope so for me as am going next tuesday with it
To aid that question I'm going to write a thread then, everything I feel until cant write. I hope it helps someone.
Right, so ppi included in 48 hr regime maybe beneficial? And no antacids shortly before sn, ?
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I concerned that any attempt I make at killing myself will 1.) not be successful, 2.) be extremely painful, and 3.) will cause brain damage.
I was run over by a bus five years ago. I was crossing with the light and no, it wasn't a suicide attempt.
On top of ending up with a mutilated leg, I also ended up with a mild, complex traumatic brain injury. I am terrified of making things worse for myself. I have a phobia of falling.
I can get the SN from Amazon and would have no problem getting the anti-nausea medication since I suffered from migraines (something I didn't have before the accident).
I wish I could die right now. I have no support, no friends, no family. I am only keeping it together for my cats. My roommate wasn't the friend I thought she was.
If anyone has any suggestions for an uncomplicated painless death I am all ears.
I was run over by a bus five years ago. I was crossing with the light and no, it wasn't a suicide attempt.
On top of ending up with a mutilated leg, I also ended up with a mild, complex traumatic brain injury. I am terrified of making things worse for myself. I have a phobia of falling.
I can get the SN from Amazon and would have no problem getting the anti-nausea medication since I suffered from migraines (something I didn't have before the accident).
I wish I could die right now. I have no support, no friends, no family. I am only keeping it together for my cats. My roommate wasn't the friend I thought she was.
If anyone has any suggestions for an uncomplicated painless death I am all ears.
Yes, this is just my opinion. No antacids or pain relievers, or any other medications except antiemetic, prior SN.
They may increase the quantity of HCI in stomach
howard
Experienced
- Sep 13, 2019
- 268
I am sorry to hear of your situation, your in a bad way it seems. You've found the right place for support with this site. All I would say is take time to prepare whatever method if you go down that route, dont do impulse actions and research. There are posts available that are scientifically detailed. Read alot and take time.
Myself , I've chose sn. Will fully prepare as advised by multiple *experts* based on knowledge available at this time. There are other method also hopefully peaceful.
I wish you luck
Hope we have more contact. Keep smiling, it does help!
I was going to take some pregablin and dihydrocodeine, what bad could they cause?
Sorry just read it. Cos can increase acid.
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Those are histamine 2 blockers, not PPIs
The Difference Between Proton Pump Inhibitors (PPI), H2 Blockers, and Antacids | Time of Care
There are only three classes of medications for GERD. PPIs, H2 blockers, and Antacids. Antacids Of the three classes, antacids are the fastest acting. They start providing relief to the patient within five minutes. As such, should be used as needed (on-demand) for breakthrough symptoms that...
www.timeofcare.com
BPD_LE
The Queen of Meme
- Aug 11, 2019
- 1,576
But just taking the AE will raise the pH levels in the stomach. Taking an antacid quickly neutralises the pH again. That's the point.
Metoclopramide and cimetidine to reduce gastric fluid pH and volume - PubMed
Eighty female patients undergoing outpatient laparoscopy were divided into four equal groups to investigate the effect of cimetidine and metoclopramide on the gastric fluid volume and pH. Group I patients received two placebo tablets. Group II patients were given metoclopramide, 10 mg, and one...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Gastric fluid pH was less in patients receiving metoclopramide, 10 mg + cimetidine, 300 mg (tablets)
Effects of Metoclopramide and Ranitidine on Preoperative Gastric Contents in Day-Case Surgery
This prospective, randomized, double-blinded study was performed to evaluate the effects of intravenous metoclopramide and ranitidine on preoperative gastric contents in outpatients receiving intravenous anesthesia for laparoscopic gynecologic surgery. ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
The effects of intravenous cimetidine and metoclopramide on gastric volume and pH
"Metoclopramide reduced gastric volume significantly when administered alone (P = 0.0001), but cimetidine did not (P = 0.10). Cimetidine increased the gastric fluid pH significantly (P = 0.0001) as did metoclopramide (P = 0.0023)."
--
what's interesting is that these studies were done on pre-operative patients to reduce the risk of acid reflux ("With compromised protective airway reflexes, passive regurgitation in patients with impaired level of consciousness may result in pulmonary aspiration"), and it worked.
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BPD_LE
The Queen of Meme
- Aug 11, 2019
- 1,576
Taking meto and a H2 Blocker increases overall ph but decreases the volume of acid in the stomach, which is obviously better when adding SN. Interesting one study was taken 2 hours before, one 30 mins and one 15 mins, all with the same outcome.Metoclopramide and cimetidine to reduce gastric fluid pH and volume - PubMed
Eighty female patients undergoing outpatient laparoscopy were divided into four equal groups to investigate the effect of cimetidine and metoclopramide on the gastric fluid volume and pH. Group I patients received two placebo tablets. Group II patients were given metoclopramide, 10 mg, and one...
Gastric fluid pH was less in patients receiving metoclopramide, 10 mg + cimetidine, 300 mg
"intravenous prophylactic ranitidine and metoclopramide is an easy and useful method to decrease the volume and increase the pH of gastric contents."Effects of Metoclopramide and Ranitidine on Preoperative Gastric Contents in Day-Case Surgery
This prospective, randomized, double-blinded study was performed to evaluate the effects of intravenous metoclopramide and ranitidine on preoperative gastric contents in outpatients receiving intravenous anesthesia for laparoscopic gynecologic surgery. ...
The effects of intravenous cimetidine and metoclopramide on gastric volume and pH
researchexperts.utmb.edu
"Metoclopramide reduced gastric volume significantly when administered alone (P = 0.0001), but cimetidine did not (P = 0.10). Cimetidine increased the gastric fluid pH significantly (P = 0.0001) as did metoclopramide (P = 0.0023)."
[Mean PH levels were much higher btw]
--
what's interesting is that these studies were done on pre-operative patients to reduce the risk of acid reflux ("With compromised protective airway reflexes, passive regurgitation in patients with impaired level of consciousness may result in pulmonary aspiration"), and it worked.
Taking an antacid decreases the pH levels but doesn't change the amount.
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noctiva
the invisible girl
- Nov 6, 2019
- 393
Fixed it. H2-R antagonists act via H2-Rs and its associated intracellular cascades on the proton pumps located in the parietal cells of the stomach but aren't classed as proton pump inhibitors as they only indirectly transmit their action through proton pumps.
I cannot find anything on my speculation that they (PPI and H2-R antagonists) will not directly decrease HCl in the stomach yet only indirectly act on the production of HCl, but not the present concentration of HCl, has anyone found anything on this and could cite it here? Basically: Do PPIs (or H2-R antagonists) DIRECTLY lead to a decrease in HCl in the stomach in the time they act or only indirectly? If they only act indirectly via proton pump inhibition, then PPIs or H2-R antagonists would have to be taken 1-2 hours before the last meal and not 1-2 hours before SN to lead to a decrease in HCl and fasting, as fasting can increase HCl in the stomach, should be kept rather short, unlike the 12h/ 24h/ 48h some users here aim at in their protocols.
@howard: It is tough to advice on food in this situation. People have successfully died due to SN-laced food. If your stomach is empty, the liquid SN will be passed on into the intestine very quickly, speeding up the process of unconsciousness and death after SN ingestion. So personally, I will not eat before SN, but as case studies clearly detail that people have died from SN-laced food, it is an option to eat with SN or right before SN. But in the interest of absorption speed, possible vomiting of not just liquid but also food as well as SN/food content interactions, I personally will steer clear of food for 8 hours or so before SN.
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BPD_LE
The Queen of Meme
- Aug 11, 2019
- 1,576
@Daniela posted some interesting studies above you should read.
Drugs given intravenously though which is something to consider.
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