Resource Rhizo's drug AMA – the only comprehensive resource on drug poisonings you will ever need

[Rhizomorph1]

AMA:

I have a degree in psychology with specialized experience in substance use research, psychopharmacology, psychedelic research, etc.

I've also read a lot about drug poisonings, the PPH, and various methods on this forum. I've been using the dark net to buy drugs and been connected to underground drug- and street-entrenched communities for many years.

I get a lot of PM's asking about drugs – mostly for ctb purposes, but also for recreation – so I figured I'd make a dedicated AMA thread.

So AMA!

---

* Disclaimer:

I am not a doctor and despite my psychopharmacology knowledge, I have limited medical knowledge; I try my best to be upfront regarding anything I don't know and encourage people to make their own decisions after weighing the risks and benefits themselves. If I don't know the answer I will do my best to research it based on peer-reviewed research or the best available evidence.

Information = empowerment = improved rational decision making = increased ability to choose/self-determine (versus the coercive nature of e.g., mental illness stigma). Increased capacity for informed consent will, in theory, both:

1. Save lives & reduce serious injury and pain by reducing spontaneous and poorly planned suicides
2. Ease suffering in dying for people committed to dying.

I encourage people – namely young people – to exhaust their treatment options (psychotherapy, medication, rehabilitation, etc.) available to them before choosing to die, but respect people's wishes to not access treatment, even though I think this is often premature. With the exception of urgent and severe chronic pain conditions, or similar, suicide should be rationally deliberated and prepared for – in terms of both method and psychospiritually – over many months.

---

Resources:

Here's some valuable threads that should be read by anyone serious about ctb using drugs & will answer many questions as well:

A caution on drug poisonings (ODs)

A must read for anyone considering drug poisonings of any kind, to know the options, risks, & benefits: The Peaceful Pill Handbook (details inert gasses/exit bag, carbon monoxide, and cardiac switches too)

Opioid Megathread/Method

Stan's guide to SN

SN Bible

Wishing all beings peace in living or dying

 

[cursedcure]

hey, thanks for having this thread, just in time for my attempt in the next few days. i have i think around 5 10mg pills of metoclopramide, i have 11 m30s from the DW (not pharma grade but bought from a trusted seller), 6x 10mg of valium (i have more, but i think it should be enough), and some whiskey.

my plan is to take a first metoclopramide pill earlier in the day, like 8h or more before the attempt. then i might have a small meal but nothing much. then i'll take another (or two?) an hour or so before i start drinking whiskey and half of the valiums (i take them everyday and drink everyday so it takes quite a bit to really knock me out). when i start feeling loopy i plan on taking the rest of the valium and all of the m30s. now what i'm wondering is what the best road of administration would be. i'm thinking of crushing them all, mixing with water and then chug it, probably washing it down with more whiskey. i thought about snorting half but that's quite a lot to snort so i think it's better if i just ingest it all. then i'll go lie in bed and try to force my body to stay on my back in the event i vomit.

do you think my plan is pretty sound? does my timing sound about right with the meto or should i add more? i'm basing this attempt on my boyfriend, who did pretty much this but without the benzos. it was successful for him. thank you

 

[doughmixer1982]

Your chosen method for CTB is SN ? Is that correct?
You are very knowledgable in various DN drugs, you still think SN is the best methods out of all the drugs available on DN?

 

[Sid19]

Hey, first of all I am glad such minded people are here!

I have read and heard how lethal olanzapine od can be? What do you think of it? Imagine using 100's tabs of it (10mg) being swallowed. How much distressing could cause to that said person?

 

[Rhizomorph1]

hey, thanks for having this thread, just in time for my attempt in the next few days. i have i think around 5 10mg pills of metoclopramide, i have 11 m30s from the DW (not pharma grade but bought from a trusted seller), 6x 10mg of valium (i have more, but i think it should be enough), and some whiskey.

my plan is to take a first metoclopramide pill earlier in the day, like 8h or more before the attempt. then i might have a small meal but nothing much. then i'll take another (or two?) an hour or so before i start drinking whiskey and half of the valiums (i take them everyday and drink everyday so it takes quite a bit to really knock me out). when i start feeling loopy i plan on taking the rest of the valium and all of the m30s. now what i'm wondering is what the best road of administration would be. i'm thinking of crushing them all, mixing with water and then chug it, probably washing it down with more whiskey. i thought about snorting half but that's quite a lot to snort so i think it's better if i just ingest it all. then i'll go lie in bed and try to force my body to stay on my back in the event i vomit.

do you think my plan is pretty sound? does my timing sound about right with the meto or should i add more? i'm basing this attempt on my boyfriend, who did pretty much this but without the benzos. it was successful for him. thank you

Definitely read the opioid megathread in the OP. I would not recommend snorting as the amount of pill binding agents will prevent significant absorption.

The most reliable ROA would be rectal. In fact, you wouldn't even technically need the meto with this ROA. However, if you're uncomfortable with this, combining the oxycodone with meto should suffice.

Do you have any tolerance to opioids? 11 pills (330mg) should suffice with 0 tolerance. The alcohol and benzodiazepines should be considered as peripheral "failsafes" to potentiate the opioids, but as I mentioned in the opioid megathread, the goal should be to have a sufficiently large opioid dose to begin with.

Given that they are not pharmaceutical grade, I highly recommend using a mail-in drug checking service like the ones mentioned in the megathread.

Some other thoughts:

- you really only need to take 30mg of the meto

- avoid eating anything for 8h if you can. If you must eat, consume as little as possible. Eating within 2-4 beforehand hours will greatly reduce absorption speed.

- taking all of the drugs at once will be more effective as it will result in a higher peak in blood concentration/quicker absorption. Spacing out the doses will slightly attenuate (reduce) the absorption-excretuon curve, resulting in reduced effects.

- I would recommend laying on your side. If the opioids don't kill you, then suffocating on your vomit carries a high risk of hypoxic brain damage; leaving you alive but disabled. You're better off surviving with no brain damage and re-attempting than betting on suffocating on your vomit, I would think. That's assuming this is why you want to lie on your back.

I hope you have adjecent reasons for wanting to ctb other than your boyfriend dying. There is no right or wrong reason, but there are definitely spontaneous ones. Feel free to pm me if you'd like to chat about your grief

Your chosen method for CTB is SN ? Is that correct?
You are very knowledgable in various DN drugs, you still think SN is the best methods out of all the drugs available on DN?

My chosen method in MAID. Hopefully here in Canada. If not then in Switzerland. This is to help me and my family cope and grieve as it is more culturally accepted and transparent.

I have secured SN as my next option if they don't accept my applications for MAID. I believe SN is the best method for most people, but mileage may vary.

There are pros and cons to each method, some of which must be tailored to a person's individual circumstances and health (e.g., SN is not reliable for people with gasteoparesis). Accessibility also varies.

But yes, for a healthy person who can access it, SN seems to have the best balance of peacefulness, efficiency, reliability, etc. of all methods. Asides from N which is close to impossible to access underground.

Hey, first of all I am glad such minded people are here!

I have read and heard how lethal olanzapine od can be? What do you think of it? Imagine using 100's tabs of it (10mg) being swallowed. How much distressing could cause to that said person?

Can you point to where you read and heard this? I'm a bit skeptical, as it was not mentioned in the PPH, so I doubt it has high reliability. Admittedly, I'm not as familiar with olanzapine, so don't take my word on it as certain.

Antipsychotic toxicity - WikEM

wikem.org

"Isolated overdose of antipsychotics is rarely fatal"

I can't comment on whether it is peaceful, but other users have reported it is relatively peaceful. Take this with a grain of salt unless more data is uncovered. I'm unfamiliar with any isolated cases of olanzapine suicides, and without this data I would have to recommend against it.

There is always the option of cardiac switches by combining a blackout dose of benzos to avoid any possible pain, but then you would still probably want to use a drug with high reliability

If anyone knows of any case reports feel free to chime in :)

 

[Darkover]

this is nowhere near including all elements of drug poisoning i see you skipped over the comment about olanzapine overdose because i presume you are not knowledgeable on that matter at hand, i have experience with olanzapine overdose it's completely peaceful as little as 4 grams can kill you

 

[Rhizomorph1]

this is nowhere near including all elements of drug poisoning i see you skipped over the comment about olanzapine overdose because i presume you are not knowledgeable on that matter at hand, i have experience with olanzapine overdose it's completely peaceful as little as 4 grams can kill you

I was in the middle of writing out my response re: olanzapine. Patience

As I mentioned in the OP disclaimer if you read it, I will be clear when I don't know about something. I can't know everything. If there is an evidence-based guide to olanzapine I will happily add it to the OP.

A tolerance and patience for uncertainty goes along way my friend :)

The attachment you shared is probably unsubstantiated as it is polydrug poisoning. Any one or multiple of those drugs could potentiate one another. Besides, the amitriptyline + zopiclone combo is effectively a cardiac switch, which is regarded as peaceful. Who knows what impact the olanzapine had given the drug cocktail of which the zopiclone could render someone under general anesthesia.

 

[Darkover]

A tolerance and patience for uncertainty goes along way my friend :)

The attachment you shared is probably unsubstantiated as it is polydrug poisoning. Any one or multiple of those drugs could potentiate one another. Besides, the amitriptyline + zopiclone combo is effectively a cardiac switch, which is regarded as peaceful. Who knows what impact the olanzapine had given the drug cocktail of which the zopiclone could render someone under general anesthesia.

98 percent of what i took was olanzapine 50 5mg tablets very few amitriptyline and zopiclone like total 10 pills combind

 

[Thanksforeverything]

Hi, I had posted a thread about drug selection for SN but didn't receive a response before, so I'll ask here.

I've seen people going back and forth about choosing meto or domperidone as their AE for the SN method. From what I can tell, meto might be a bit more effective due to crossing the BBB but can have potential side effects as a result. Other than that they both are functionally similar. I can technically get both. I've used Domperidone before but have no experience with meto. Also, there seems to be no guidelines on Domperidone dosage in the resource threads. Thoughts between the two?

As for benzos, I have a massive tolerance due to having abused it before. I also don't have access to anything like diazepam or alprazolam but I can get midazolam which is far more potent from my experience. I assume this wouldn't cause any complications with SN, but I just want to double-check.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

98 percent of what i took was olanzapine very few amitriptyline and zopiclone

I was a researcher so I can't in good faith recommend anything without a reasonable data sample that is controlled for extraneous variables.

If others wish to take this experience in faith of reliability, that is their prejorative. But as someone trying to be a beacon for accurate information on a matter so serious as dying, I take extra precaution on the basis of ethical principle to draw the lines between speculation and fact with a very fine tuned scientific device.

I'm sure you understand :)

 

[Darkover]

I was a researcher so I can't in good faith recommend anything without a reasonable data sample that is controlled for extraneous variables.

If others wish to take this experience in faith of reliability, that is their prejorative. But as someone trying to be a beacon for accurate information on a matter so serious as dying, I take extra precaution on the basis of ethical principle to draw the lines between speculation and fact with a very fine tuned scientific device.

I'm sure you understand :)

clearly not the only comprehensive resource on drug poisonings you will ever need then maybe change the title

 

[Rhizomorph1]

Hi, I had posted a thread about drug selection for SN but didn't receive a response before, so I'll ask here.

I've seen people going back and forth about choosing meto or domperidone as their AE for the SN method. From what I can tell, meto might be a bit more effective due to crossing the BBB but can have potential side effects as a result. Other than that they both are functionally similar. I can technically get both. I've used Domperidone before but have no experience with meto. Also, there seems to be no guidelines on Domperidone dosage in the resource threads. Thoughts between the two?

As for benzos, I have a massive tolerance due to having abused it before. I also don't have access to anything like diazepam or alprazolam but I can get midazolam which is far more potent from my experience. I assume this wouldn't cause any complications with SN, but I just want to double-check.

I wouldn't overthink it. Both domperidone and meto will work. 30mg of domperidone (the same regimen/dosing as meto) is ideal.

Meto has a slightly higher risk of long term adverse side effects, but to my knowledge this is mostly a risk with people who take it long term.

I would say if you have experience with domperidone, stick with it. You can also take a "test dose" of meto a few weeks or months beforehand to see if it has any uncomfortable side effects.

There have been extremely rare cases of people developing problems after a single dose but I think that risk is extremely overstated.

The benzo tolerance won't affect the efficacy or toxic effects of the SN. However, it would need to be considered if you intend to combine benzos with your SN regimen, as many people opt for to reduce SI and unpleasant SN side effects (anxiety, etc.)

clearly not the only comprehensive resource on drug poisonings you will ever need then maybe change the title

An underground "comprehensive" resource is technically impossible given the lack of medical oversight and scientific resources. Your participation on this very forum is a tacit assumption of the validity of covert knowledges, at least at face-value.

Pretty sure this is the best we've got. Unless you can point to another thread that covers the breadth of various drug poisonings with greater empirical support? The only more comprehensive guide I know if is the PPH, which I have included in the OP.

Regardless, the semiotic politics of rhetoric need not be over thought for such harmless connotations.

Thank you for your perspective.

 

[BadChanges]

Hi, my intended method is SN.

I have Crohns colitis. I saw that you mentioned it was unreliable for people with gastroparesis. What is the notion around people with IBD? Can it cause irreversible damage or fail?

Thank you so much.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

Hi, my intended method is SN.

I have Crohns colitis. I saw that you mentioned it was unreliable for people with gastroparesis. What is the notion around people with IBD? Can it cause irreversible damage or fail?

Thank you so much.

I don't have the medical knowledge to answer this with confidence. So know that my answer is entirely speculative.

As I understand, colitis reduces absorption due to inflammation of the intestinal wall reducing the surface area. Less surface area = less points of contact for drugs, nutrients, etc. to be absorbed.

For this reason, I might consider taking a larger dose of SN if you do use this method. Other methods such as inert gasses/exit bags may be more reliable and suitable, however.

Gasteoparesis on the other hand causes drugs to sit in the stomach for long periods of time, delaying much more significantly the time it takes to absorb.

Has your doctor mentioned anything about the absorption speed of drugs? Maybe you could ask them about it for another type of drug to get an idea. Again, this is all speculative. But, the PPH doesn't mention it as a contraindication for SN and it was written by a doctor so I suspect SN should be possible with colitis.

Some people who have failed their attempts with SN have reported long term or permanent complications. But, the majority of people tend to recover just fine after hospitalization and treatment with methylene blue. The rate of permanent injury appears to be somewhat lower with SN compared to other methods. This data is a bit hard to appraise though as it is mostly through self-reports on this website and a few case studies. But there is some data supporting it.

 

[BadChanges]

thanks.
What do you consider a larger dose? I'm a skinny male.

My ibd isn't severe at the moment and it seems like drugs effect me rather quickly.

My other option would be flying to Peru to get N but that's a tougher task to do.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

thanks.
What do you consider a larger dose? I'm a skinny male.

My ibd isn't severe at the moment and it seems like drugs effect me rather quickly.

My other option would be flying to Peru to get N but that's a tougher task to do.

The PPH recommends 25 grams. I would recommend 35 grams. Generally speaking there's not any concerns with taking more.

25 grams is already well over the amount needed to reliably die; a little over a gram or two is more than enough to kill someone. The reason people take so much is because many people vomit the vast majority of it up (thus, the antiemetic).

As I said, I can't speak to your specific condition. I can only speculate about it's impact on absorption speed and tell you how SN typically works.

Absorption speed and time before vomiting are the two main factors that will determine whether or not it is successful. If 25+ grams are successfully absorbed in a short enough period, death will occur.

 

[Sid19]

Can you point to where you read and heard this? I'm a bit skeptical, as it was not mentioned in the PPH, so I doubt it has high reliability. Admittedly, I'm not as familiar with olanzapine, so don't take my word on it as certain.

Antipsychotic toxicity - WikEM

wikem.org

"Isolated overdose of antipsychotics is rarely fatal"

I can't comment on whether it is peaceful, but other users have reported it is relatively peaceful. Take this with a grain of salt unless more data is uncovered. I'm unfamiliar with any isolated cases of olanzapine suicides, and without this data I would have to recommend against it.

There is always the option of cardiac switches by combining a blackout dose of benzos to avoid any possible pain, but then you would still probably want to use a drug with high reliability

If anyone knows of any case reports feel free chime in

I think it was around October last year when we had a discussion regarding olanzapine od and someone posted it with some sort of article with it. I will try finding it out and will post to you when I do it.

this is nowhere near including all elements of drug poisoning i see you skipped over the comment about olanzapine overdose because i presume you are not knowledgeable on that matter at hand, i have experience with olanzapine overdose it's completely peaceful as little as 4 grams can kill you

Hey man, I think I have read your post long ago. I think you did try od yourself with 500mg of olanzapine right? I'm thinking of using sn with olanzapine. I have seen 2 people done it already, one of which had conversed with you regarding the olanzapine in the past. There's also another guy who did it with Amitriptyline and olanzapine.

 

[Thanksforeverything]

I wouldn't overthink it. Both domperidone and meto will work. 30mg of domperidone (the same regimen/dosing as meto) is ideal.

Meto has a slightly higher risk of long term adverse side effects, but to my knowledge this is mostly a risk with people who take it long term.

I would say if you have experience with domperidone, stick with it. You can also take a "test dose" of meto a few weeks or months beforehand to see if it has any uncomfortable side effects.

There have been extremely rare cases of people developing problems after a single dose but I think that risk is extremely overstated.

The benzo tolerance won't affect the efficacy or toxic effects of the SN. However, it would need to be considered if you intend to combine benzos with your SN regimen, as many people opt for to reduce SI and unpleasant SN side effects (anxiety, etc.)

Hi, a follow-up question. I rarely eat more than one meal a day, so I doubt I would have any issues with the fasting protocol. But I regularly take PPIs for IBS-D. Even if I don't eat a meal, I sometimes have issues with bloating/nausea. Should I stop taking the PPIs before I take the SN, or is it okay to continue to take them?

 

[Manolios]

I want to know if I could commit suicide with my preferred method, which is overdosing on prescription drugs. I have the following:

• 70 mg of olanzapine
• 3000 mg of quetiapine
• 1700 mg of duloxetine (Cymbalta)
• 3100 mg of sertraline (Zoloft)
• 73 mg of lorazepam (Ativan)

I want to know whether I can do it, what would be the ideal dosage and combination and whether it would be painful.

Thanks very much!!!

 

[cursedcure]

Definitely read the opioid megathread in the OP. I would not recommend snorting as the amount of pill binding agents will prevent significant absorption.

The most reliable ROA would be rectal. In fact, you wouldn't even technically need the meto with this ROA. However, if you're uncomfortable with this, combining the oxycodone with meto should suffice.

Do you have any tolerance to opioids? 11 pills (330mg) should suffice with 0 tolerance. The alcohol and benzodiazepines should be considered as peripheral "failsafes" to potentiate the opioids, but as I mentioned in the opioid megathread, the goal should be to have a sufficiently large opioid dose to begin with.

Given that they are not pharmaceutical grade, I highly recommend using a mail-in drug checking service like the ones mentioned in the megathread.

Some other thoughts:

- you really only need to take 30mg of the meto

- avoid eating anything for 8h if you can. If you must eat, consume as little as possible. Eating within 2-4 beforehand hours will greatly reduce absorption speed.

- taking all of the drugs at once will be more effective as it will result in a higher peak in blood concentration/quicker absorption. Spacing out the doses will slightly attenuate (reduce) the absorption-excretuon curve, resulting in reduced effects.

- I would recommend laying on your side. If the opioids don't kill you, then suffocating on your vomit carries a high risk of hypoxic brain damage; leaving you alive but disabled. You're better off surviving with no brain damage and re-attempting than betting on suffocating on your vomit, I would think. That's assuming this is why you want to lie on your back.

I hope you have adjecent reasons for wanting to ctb other than your boyfriend dying. There is no right or wrong reason, but there are definitely spontaneous ones. Feel free to pm me if you'd like to chat about your grief

hey, thanks for your input! helps a lot. i will just stick to oral route. i don't have experience with rectal administration so i don't think it's a good idea to try to do it for the first time while i'm already sedated (i read the reddit thread and it does seem like it gets "better" with some practice, i don't have time/resources really to risk). i don't have tolerance to opioids, last time i used them was approximately 4 years ago and it was not heavy use nor for an extended period of time, so i would assume my tolerance is basically 0. i do remember having some nausea and vomiting even with a small dosage of pharma opioids via snorting, so that's what i'm most nervous about. i really hope the meto works.

when you say to take all at once, i'm assuming you mean the m30s (as you said the alcohol and benzos are "failsafes")? i was definitely thinking of being sedated already before taking all the opioids at once, which should be a sufficient dose if it is pure enough. i unfortunately won't test my drugs; i bought from an established seller with a lot of reviews and i am choosing to trust that.

i will keep in mind what you're saying about not eating and especially lying on my back, for some reason i thought choking on my own it could be another "failsafe" in the event that my body rejects it. i know it is not pleasant but i will hopefully be unconscious if it happens. i do not like to think about the aftermath of my attempt if it's not successful, but it is a possibility.

i have given suicide a lot of thought, read a lot but it's hard to have the "perfect" and foolproof attempt. i appreciate your concern. i've been miserable for years, but these few months have been noticeably excruciating. i just want to give this the best chance of working, and i thank you for acknowledging my concerns to the best of your ability. i hope everything works out for you as well.

additional question, would you say that drinking grapefruit juice would be effective to potentiate the effects of the m30s? looking at prices of good whiskey, i might as well get another spirit such as tequila or even vodka, who i think would mix better with grapefruit than cheap whiskey

 

[Authentic13]

AMA:

I have a degree in psychology with specialized experience in substance use research, psychopharmacology, psychedelic research, etc.

I've also read a lot about drug poisonings, the PPH, and various methods on this forum. I've been using the dark net to buy drugs and been connected to underground drug- and street-entrenched communities for many years.

I get a lot of PM's asking about drugs – mostly for ctb purposes, but also for recreation – so I figured I'd make a dedicated AMA thread.

So AMA!

---

* Disclaimer:

I am not a doctor and despite my psychopharmacology knowledge, I have limited medical knowledge; I try my best to be upfront regarding anything I don't know and encourage people to make their own decisions after weighing the risks and benefits themselves. If I don't know the answer I will do my best to research it based on peer-reviewed research or the best available evidence.

Information = empowerment = improved rational decision making = increased ability to choose/self-determine (versus the coercive nature of e.g., mental illness stigma). Increased capacity for informed consent will, in theory, both:

1. Save lives & reduce serious injury and pain by reducing spontaneous and poorly planned suicides
2. Ease suffering in dying for people committed to dying.

I encourage people – namely young people – to exhaust their treatment options (psychotherapy, medication, rehabilitation, etc.) available to them before choosing to die, but respect people's wishes to not access treatment, even though I think this is often premature. With the exception of urgent and severe chronic pain conditions, or similar, suicide should be rationally deliberated and prepared for – in terms of both method and psychospiritually – over many months.

---

Resources:

Here's some valuable threads that should be read by anyone serious about ctb using drugs & will answer many questions as well:

A caution on drug poisonings (ODs)

A must read for anyone considering drug poisonings of any kind, to know the options, risks, & benefits: The Peaceful Pill Handbook (details inert gasses/exit bag, carbon monoxide, and cardiac switches too)

Opioid Megathread/Method

Stan's guide to SN

SN Bible

Wishing all beings peace in living or dying

Extremely useful info here! Thanks for doing the legwork and being willing to share!

 

[rotciv]

98 percent of what i took was olanzapine 50 5mg tablets very few amitriptyline and zopiclone like total 10 pills combind

Olanzapine seems very deadly. I would go with at least 5 grams to be sure.

 

[doughmixer1982]

1.I have a source for protonitazene and protonitazepyne
Which one is more lethal if used with benzos?
Also what should be the ideal dosage for protonitazepyne or protonitazene ( snorting) when using with benzos?

2. Second scenario with SN:
SN method recommends benzos. If after follwing the SN procedure one is still alive and decides to snort protonitazepyne or protonitazene as back up,will that be effective?

 

[Thisisme373]

Hi, a follow-up question. I rarely eat more than one meal a day, so I doubt I would have any issues with the fasting protocol. But I regularly take PPIs for IBS-D. Even if I don't eat a meal, I sometimes have issues with bloating/nausea. Should I stop taking the PPIs before I take the SN, or is it okay to continue to take them?

I'm also wondering about the PPI's as I'm on them too, should I stop taking them on the day, could they complicate things if anyone knows?

 

[Rhizomorph1]

I want to know if I could commit suicide with my preferred method, which is overdosing on prescription drugs. I have the following:

• 70 mg of olanzapine
• 3000 mg of quetiapine
• 1700 mg of duloxetine (Cymbalta)
• 3100 mg of sertraline (Zoloft)
• 73 mg of lorazepam (Ativan)

I want to know whether I can do it, what would be the ideal dosage and combination and whether it would be painful.

Thanks very much!!!

Do not try to overdose using antidepressants such as duloxetine or sertraline. Even combined with other drugs, these drugs are very unlikely to increase the odds of successful ctb but they can cause adverse and painful reactions.

Regarding the antipsychotics – olanzepine and quetiapine – I linked an article above that discusses how antipsychotics are rarely fatal. The jury is still out on olanzepine as according to other members, there have been case reports on the forum of it being successful, but I can't recommend it for the reasons I stated above (lack of data, other drugs combined making it impossible to know the effect of olanzepine alone, etc.)

Benzodiazepines are incredibly safe on their own. They can potentiate other lethal depressants such as opioids, but they won't do much to improve the reliability of antipsychotics or antidepressants.

I would be surprised if this combination worked. It probably fits within the 2-6% efficacy statistic I've mentioned in some other threads.

I cannot recommend it. I wish you luck finding more effective and peaceful alternatives

Hi, a follow-up question. I rarely eat more than one meal a day, so I doubt I would have any issues with the fasting protocol. But I regularly take PPIs for IBS-D. Even if I don't eat a meal, I sometimes have issues with bloating/nausea. Should I stop taking the PPIs before I take the SN, or is it okay to continue to take them?

PPIs are fine to take with SN. They shouldn't have any consoderable influence on the absorption as long as you take an antiemetic which in itself will speed absorption.

I'm also wondering about the PPI's as I'm on them too, should I stop taking them on the day, could they complicate things if anyone knows?

See above

1.I have a source for protonitazene and protonitazepyne
Which one is more lethal if used with benzos?
Also what should be the ideal dosage for protonitazepyne or protonitazene ( snorting) when using with benzos?

2. Second scenario with SN:
SN method recommends benzos. If after follwing the SN procedure one is still alive and decides to snort protonitazepyne or protonitazene as back up,will that be effective?

I can't speak confidently to the dose of protanitazepyne given that it is a research chemical so the pharmacodynamics are poorly understood, but it's suggested to be 25x as potent as fentanyl, so I recommend taking at least 25x the dose I recommended in the opioid Megathread (linked in the OP).

The challenge is that fentanyl is already incredibly hard to measure at milligram ranges, and protanitazepyne will be active at the sub-milligram level. For this reason it will be incredibly different to reliably measure your dose.

Likewise, many of the same issues with the contaminated/unreliable quality of the drug supply persist. See the drug checking section of the opioid Megathread.

If the SN fails, I doubt you will be conscious or alert enough to effectively snort the protanitazepyne and given that opioids will not potentiate SN-induced methoglobinemia, I would recommend attempting these two methods individually rather than trying to combine them. That way your judgment and coordination will be maximal, improving your chances of success with either method.

I fully recommend SN over opioids (and especially research chemicals) given the higher reliability, quality of the SN going around, ease of testing (aquarium kits), substantiating data, etc.

hey, thanks for your input! helps a lot. i will just stick to oral route. i don't have experience with rectal administration so i don't think it's a good idea to try to do it for the first time while i'm already sedated (i read the reddit thread and it does seem like it gets "better" with some practice, i don't have time/resources really to risk). i don't have tolerance to opioids, last time i used them was approximately 4 years ago and it was not heavy use nor for an extended period of time, so i would assume my tolerance is basically 0. i do remember having some nausea and vomiting even with a small dosage of pharma opioids via snorting, so that's what i'm most nervous about. i really hope the meto works.

when you say to take all at once, i'm assuming you mean the m30s (as you said the alcohol and benzos are "failsafes")? i was definitely thinking of being sedated already before taking all the opioids at once, which should be a sufficient dose if it is pure enough. i unfortunately won't test my drugs; i bought from an established seller with a lot of reviews and i am choosing to trust that.

i will keep in mind what you're saying about not eating and especially lying on my back, for some reason i thought choking on my own it could be another "failsafe" in the event that my body rejects it. i know it is not pleasant but i will hopefully be unconscious if it happens. i do not like to think about the aftermath of my attempt if it's not successful, but it is a possibility.

i have given suicide a lot of thought, read a lot but it's hard to have the "perfect" and foolproof attempt. i appreciate your concern. i've been miserable for years, but these few months have been noticeably excruciating. i just want to give this the best chance of working, and i thank you for acknowledging my concerns to the best of your ability. i hope everything works out for you as well.

additional question, would you say that drinking grapefruit juice would be effective to potentiate the effects of the m30s? looking at prices of good whiskey, i might as well get another spirit such as tequila or even vodka, who i think would mix better with grapefruit than cheap whiskey

Grapefruit juice will potentiate opioids, but may also increase your risk of vomiting as fasting food and liquids is recommended. So it's trading a benefit for a risk.

If the M30s are pure (which as a previous drug checking technician, I can assure you is impossible to tell unless you acquired them from a pharmacy or test them) and you combine with an antiemetic your method may have some increased reliability.

I still can't recommend it due to the likelihood of liver damage which is very slow and painful if survived, or other serious injury, and encourage laying in the recovery position, but I understand your decision to follow through if you wish/if other methods are inaccessible

 

[unimaginativelamp]

Do not try to overdose using antidepressants such as duloxetine or sertraline. Even combined with other drugs, these drugs are very unlikely to increase the odds of successful ctb but they can cause adverse and painful reactions.

Regarding the antipsychotics – olanzepine and quetiapine – I linked an article above that discusses how antipsychotics are rarely fatal. The jury is still out on olanzepine as according to other members, there have been case reports on the forum of it being successful, but I can't recommend it for the reasons I stated above (lack of data, other drugs combined making it impossible to know the effect of olanzepine alone, etc.)

Benzodiazepines are incredibly safe on their own. They can potentiate other lethal depressants such as opioids, but they won't do much to improve the reliability of antipsychotics or antidepressants.

I would be surprised if this combination worked. It probably fits within the 2-6% efficacy statistic I've mentioned in some other threads.

I cannot recommend it. I wish you luck finding more effective and peaceful alternatives

PPIs are fine to take with SN. They shouldn't have any consoderable influence on the absorption as long as you take an antiemetic which in itself will speed absorption.

See above

I can't speak confidently to the dose of protanitazepyne given that it is a research chemical so the pharmacodynamics are poorly understood, but it's suggested to be 25x as potent as fentanyl, so I recommend taking at least 25x the dose I recommended in the opioid Megathread (linked in the OP).

The challenge is that fentanyl is already incredibly hard to measure at milligram ranges, and protanitazepyne will be active at the sub-milligram level. For this reason it will be incredibly different to reliably measure your dose.

Likewise, many of the same issues with the contaminated/unreliable quality of the drug supply persist. See the drug checking section of the opioid Megathread.

If the SN fails, I doubt you will be conscious or alert enough to effectively snort the protanitazepyne and given that opioids will not potentiate SN-induced methoglobinemia, I would recommend attempting these two methods individually rather than trying to combine them. That way your judgment and coordination will be maximal, improving your chances of success with either method.

I fully recommend SN over opioids (and especially research chemicals) given the higher reliability, quality of the SN going around, ease of testing (aquarium kits), substantiating data, etc.

Grapefruit juice will potentiate opioids, but may also increase your risk of vomiting as fasting food and liquids is recommended. So it's trading a benefit for a risk.

If the M30s are pure (which as a previous drug checking technician, I can assure you is impossible to tell unless you acquired them from a pharmacy or test them) and you combine with an antiemetic your method may have some increased reliability.

I still can't recommend it due to the likelihood of liver damage which is very slow and painful if survived, or other serious injury, and encourage laying in the recovery position, but I understand your decision to follow through if you wish/if other methods are inaccessible

What about lithium?

 

[doughmixer1982]

1.I have a source for protonitazene and protonitazepyne
Which one is more lethal if used with benzos?
Also what should be the ideal dosage for protonitazepyne or protonitazene ( snorting) when using with benzos?

2. Second scenario with SN:
SN method recommends benzos. If after follwing the SN procedure one is still alive and decides to snort protonitazepyne or protonitazene as back up,will that be effective?

I got proto tested. It's 70%pure.

 

[bipbapbop]

What are your thoughts on Tylenol3 with codeine? I thought it could be peaceful but everything I've read focuses more on the Tylenol aspect vs the codeine and says it will be excruciating and cause organ failure.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

What are your thoughts on Tylenol3 with codeine? I thought it could be peaceful but everything I've read focuses more on the Tylenol aspect vs the codeine and says it will be excruciating and cause organ failure.

Codeine is probably not a strong enough opioid to reduce the severe pain from organ failure. Also, the half life is not long enough as organ failure is usually drawn out over multiple weeks if not months.

T3s at any toxic level will induce liver toxicity due to the acetaminophen in them. It will hurt. And probably won't work to ctb. The amount of codeine needed to be fatal is well above the amount that would include a toxic amount of acetaminophen.

Codeine crosses the blood-brain barrier at a much, much lower rate than strong opioids like heroin or fentanyl. Thus, it is unlikely to reach high enough concentrations around the opioid synaptic cleft to induce respiratory depression.

I would not recommend this as it is likely to have lasting injury, pain, and be unsuccessful, even in high doses. + The other risks inherent to opioids poisonings compounding the issue.

What about lithium?

Lithium often causes long-term complications like neurological problems (cognitive issues, nerve pain, etc.) and kidney failure, which hurts a lot.

It will certainly be painful and slow as the toxicity will likely result from organ failure which takes many weeks or months.

Regarding efficacy, most people who attempt lithium poisoning suicides do not succeed in dying. The 2-6% statistic is probably representative of lithium poisoning suicide attempts as it is a commonly prescribed medication for suicidal people (people with bipolar have higher rates of suicidality)

 

[cantthinkofusername]

Do you have any thoughts on ketamine or ketamine analogs or other dissociatives for CTB? I get that it's less lethal than opioids/opiates, but k-holing is a very peaceful experience, and if it's anything like overdosing enough to CTB, death could be painless—even if you have to combine it with another method, like jumping or drowning. Also, I don't really trust dark web vendors, and I can buy 2-FDCK semi-legally on the clear web, from semi-reputable companies, so that's a bonus.