Resource Rhizo's drug AMA – the only comprehensive resource on drug poisonings you will ever need

[Rhizomorph1]

Will a beta blocker overdose with alcohol be painful? Will it work? I have about 70 g of propranolol.

propranolol overdose typically presents with seizures, bradycardia and in rare cases, cardiac failure. These tend to be painful, and often result in serious or permanent injuries.

I doubt the alcohol would do much asides from reduce anxiety & SI unless you consumed enough to completely black out (I.e., a cardiac switch). Still, you're betting on the propranolol causing a fatal cardiac event which is not super likely; despite a cardiac event itself being almost guaranteed with beta blocker overdoses.

Benzodiazepines will be more effective for a cardiac switch (full loss of consciousness) as tolerance & absorption is more consistent and less risk of vomiting.

The reliability of propranolol may be a bit higher than certain OTC and pharmaceutical drugs represented by the 2-6% statistic I've mentioned before (as this statistic is likely attenuated by the inclusion of far less lethal drugs).

But, I would guess that it is not substantively greater than this statistic. That is to say that the statistic still accounted for propranolol overdoses to some degree; meaning the disaggregated success rate of propranolol on its own is probably only a few % higher than the 2-6% stat. I'd take an educated guess that it is still less than 15% reliable.

In short: yes it is painful, unless you blackout. Blacking out is better with benzos than alcohol. The likelihood of success is quite low, and odds are you will permanently injure or disable yourself, so I cannot recommend this method.

What's your opinion on the DDMA protocol but without Morphine?

Seems strange that Amitriptyline alone will cause a reliable and peaceful death if combined with Benzos, but wouldn't if be even more reliable if combined with Digoxin?

My understanding is the Morphine and Benzos are to put you in a deep sleep, whisky the Amitriptyline and Digoxin create the cardiac switch that results in death.

Surely Benzos + Amitriptyline + Digoxin would be better than Benzos and Amitriptyline alone?

If you don't have the Morphine for the DDMA but do have the required amount of Benzos, Digoxin and Amitriptyline then that would also work?

Couldn't you just take more Benzos and Zopiclone to compensate for not having the required Morphine?

Yes, you can skip the morphine. To my understanding, the theory behind using morphine is as an additional analgesic (painkilling) safeguard in the event that the benzodiazepine doesn't fully render one unconscious or otherwise unable to sense pain. Likewise, opioids potentiate benzodiazepines rendering a deeper state of unconsciousness. Just bear in mind the added risk of pain incurred by not utilizing this safeguard.

One would need to adjust the dose of benzos accordingly to ensure full loss of consciousness. Combining with z drugs (e.g., zopiclone) is certainly a good idea, but the z drug should only be added as an additional safeguard, as I'm not familiar with the precise pharmacodynamics of the interaction; take the same dose of benzodiazepine as instructed/as adjusted to compensate for the lack of morphine.

 

[myopia]

Hello! I'm planning to CTB very soon using SN, and I was hoping you could help me out by answering a few questions.

For antiemetics, I only have Prochlorperazine and Ondansetron (both nearly 3 years expired). Will that work? If so, how much of each should I take? (I'm 5'6" and 115lbs for reference)

I'm also currently taking 450mg Wellbutrin and 40mg Vyvanse. Will those pose any issues? Should I stop taking them?

Thank you so much!

 

[Rhizomorph1]

Hello! I'm planning to CTB very soon using SN, and I was hoping you could help me out by answering a few questions.

For antiemetics, I only have Prochlorperazine and Ondansetron (both nearly 3 years expired). Will that work? If so, how much of each should I take? (I'm 5'6" and 115lbs for reference)

I'm also currently taking 450mg Wellbutrin and 40mg Vyvanse. Will those pose any issues? Should I stop taking them?

Thank you so much!

Hi there,

Prochlorperazine or ondansetron will work just fine. I would recommend using ondansetron over prochlorperazine as prochlorperzine has similar pharmacodynamics as Wellbutrin & Vyvanse; ondansetron will therefore have less risk of any drug interactions. I can't remember the dosages for these specific drugs but I believe the SN megathread & the PPH discuss dosages.

Wellbutrin and Vyvanse should not pose any issues or contraindications with ondansetron or SN. I would take your usual dose of both these medications on the day you plan to exit.

As always, I am not a doctor.

 

[ThisGameIsOverrated]

are benzodiapenes actually good for reducing survival instinct?

 

[myopia]

Thank you for your response! What's your opinion on taking both prochlorperazine and ondanestron? The 2022 PPH recommended taking ondanestron in addition to meto.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

are benzodiapenes actually good for reducing survival instinct?

Yes, benzos will reduce tension, fear, & anxiety. Just be sure to dose accordingly.

It is easy to accidentally blackout with benzos.

Thank you for your response! What's your opinion on taking both prochlorperazine and ondanestron? The 2022 PPH recommended taking ondanestron in addition to meto.

Both can be taken together. Just be sure to search up if there are any drug interactions with the prochlorperazine & your wellbutrin/vyvanse with an online drug interaction checker.

Using one or the other will work just fine as well. The PPH recommends both as a fail safe as some people respond to one more than the other, I believe.

It doesn't make a huge difference as long as at least 1x anti-emetic is taken.

 

[ThisGameIsOverrated]

Yes, benzos will reduce tension, fear, & anxiety. Just be sure to dose accordingly.

how much is recommended for bromazolam?

 

[onlyconsciousness]

@Rhizomorph1
What would you suggest if one suspects that he might have a sluggish stomach, maybe even gastroparesis? you said you would advise against SN, which i understand. do you know of a possibility to test for the speed of ones stomach passage? i am in bad health due to damage by an SSRI and have chronic fatigue and loss of appetite thereby, so it should be a test that i could do at home and without much risk of stimulating the body. maybe some capsule or tablet with minor but noticable effects as soon as it reaches the small intestine, so that one can look and see how long it took for the effects to kick in after ingestion of the capsule? (I only eat once in a day because of the effect the SSRI had on me. it was Effexor and it is known for blunting appetite and/or causing PSSD or other fuckshit even after discontinuation).

 

[Rhizomorph1]

@Rhizomorph1
What would you suggest if one suspects that he might have a sluggish stomach, maybe even gastroparesis? you said you would advise against SN, which i understand. do you know of a possibility to test for the speed of ones stomach passage? i am in bad health due to damage by an SSRI and have chronic fatigue and loss of appetite thereby, so it should be a test that i could do at home and without much risk of stimulating the body. maybe some capsule or tablet with minor but noticable effects as soon as it reaches the small intestine, so that one can look and see how long it took for the effects to kick in after ingestion of the capsule? (I only eat once in a day because of the effect the SSRI had on me. it was Effexor and it is known for blunting appetite and/or causing PSSD or other fuckshit even after discontinuation).

I would talk to a doctor to get a diagnosis of gastroparesis. It's nearly impossible to determine on your own.

If you have gastroparesis, SN will be considerably less reliable, in which case other methods will be better suited.

Just see a doctor and they will tell you whether or not you have it after running some diagnostics. Gastroparesis has other unwanted effects so you don't have to mention anything about suicidal ideation (although I do recommend disclosing if you are comfortable)

how much is recommended for bromazolam?

This will vary depending on what effects you intend to achieve. 1-2mg is a common dose.

Remember that people have different tolerances to the drug and anything purchased off the street will vary in quality & potency, so effects can be unpredictable.

Start low, go slow, and test some smaller doses before deciding on a larger dose to feel out what dose is best for your intended effects. Testing doses before ctb is advised.

 

[phersper]

Hey, thanks for having this thread.

At the moment I dispose of 1gm Propranolol, ~1g Oxycodone, 450 mcg/h Fentanyl patches, 500mg Diazepam and 50mg Lorazepam.

Considering the lack of Digoxin and the fact that instead of Morphine I got Oxycodone and Fentanyl, this method is pretty similar to DDMP. I'm wondering what do you think about it.

I was also thinking about, in order to make the method as close to 100% succesful as possible, to add a large plastic (enough to comfortably breath in before losing consciousness) taped to my neck or to take the drugs and go to the lake next to where I live and swim (I'm a good swimmer) as further as possible so by the time I ll lose consciousness I will peacefully drown. What do you think about it?

 

[wanttodie12345]

@Rhizomorph1
Thank you for this thread!
Wondering what your knowledge is on baclofen as far as it's ability to sedate, potential for nausea? Would crushing the tablets help or hurt absorption? Any interactions with lorazepam?

 

[justwannadip]

propranolol overdose typically presents with seizures, bradycardia and in rare cases, cardiac failure. These tend to be painful, and often result in serious or permanent injuries.

I doubt the alcohol would do much asides from reduce anxiety & SI unless you consumed enough to completely black out (I.e., a cardiac switch). Still, you're betting on the propranolol causing a fatal cardiac event which is not super likely; despite a cardiac event itself being almost guaranteed with beta blocker overdoses.

Benzodiazepines will be more effective for a cardiac switch (full loss of consciousness) as tolerance & absorption is more consistent and less risk of vomiting.

The reliability of propranolol may be a bit higher than certain OTC and pharmaceutical drugs represented by the 2-6% statistic I've mentioned before (as this statistic is likely attenuated by the inclusion of far less lethal drugs).

But, I would guess that it is not substantively greater than this statistic. That is to say that the statistic still accounted for propranolol overdoses to some degree; meaning the disaggregated success rate of propranolol on its own is probably only a few % higher than the 2-6% stat. I'd take an educated guess that it is still less than 15% reliable.

In short: yes it is painful, unless you blackout. Blacking out is better with benzos than alcohol. The likelihood of success is quite low, and odds are you will permanently injure or disable yourself, so I cannot recommend this method.

Yes, you can skip the morphine. To my understanding, the theory behind using morphine is as an additional analgesic (painkilling) safeguard in the event that the benzodiazepine doesn't fully render one unconscious or otherwise unable to sense pain. Likewise, opioids potentiate benzodiazepines rendering a deeper state of unconsciousness. Just bear in mind the added risk of pain incurred by not utilizing this safeguard.

One would need to adjust the dose of benzos accordingly to ensure full loss of consciousness. Combining with z drugs (e.g., zopiclone) is certainly a good idea, but the z drug should only be added as an additional safeguard, as I'm not familiar with the precise pharmacodynamics of the interaction; take the same dose of benzodiazepine as instructed/as adjusted to compensate for the lack of morphine.

I'm confused a bit here. To my knowledge, benzos don't usually render one unconscious, but can sedate one into sleep, but that doesn't equate to lack of awareness or pain perception. Could you clear that up for me? Is it possible or likely to achieve full unconsciousness with a high dose of benzos? I'd be taking SN and I want to have as close to 0 awareness of the process as possible. One of my biggest fears is calling for help due to anxiety or SI and I want to do my best to eliminate that from the equation. I've considered using fentanyl to achieve unconsciousness since barbiturates like thiopental and pentobarbital are virtually impossible to get, but fent is not a walk in the park either. Do you think a large dose of benzos would suffice? What would awareness, pain perception, and overall level of consciousness be with a large dose of (ie 4+mgs of) clonazepam on no tolerance be?

 

[Sunset Limited]

I'm confused a bit here. To my knowledge, benzos don't usually render one unconscious, but can sedate one into sleep, but that doesn't equate to lack of awareness or pain perception. Could you clear that up for me? Is it possible or likely to achieve full unconsciousness with a high dose of benzos? I'd be taking SN and I want to have as close to 0 awareness of the process as possible. One of my biggest fears is calling for help due to anxiety or SI and I want to do my best to eliminate that from the equation. I've considered using fentanyl to achieve unconsciousness since barbiturates like thiopental and pentobarbital are virtually impossible to get, but fent is not a walk in the park either. Do you think a large dose of benzos would suffice? What would awareness, pain perception, and overall level of consciousness be with a large dose of (ie 4+mgs of) clonazepam on no tolerance be?

There is debate about whether benzos can produce surgical depth anesthesia. The most potent are midazolam, diazepam, and lorazepam. Midazolam was used in executions when thiopental was discontinued in the United States. It was unsuccessful in providing deep sedation even at very high doses. In procedural sedation, midazolam provides conscious sedation. Propofol is amnesic and provides an experience close to general anesthesia even at subanesthetic doses.

So, benzos do not provide surgical depth sedation like propofol, thiopental, etomidate, and ketamine. It is difficult to predict what you will experience.

 

[justwannadip]

There is debate about whether benzos can produce surgical depth anesthesia. The most potent are midazolam, diazepam, and lorazepam. Midazolam was used in executions when thiopental was discontinued in the United States. It was unsuccessful in providing deep sedation even at very high doses. In procedural sedation, midazolam provides conscious sedation. Propofol is amnesic and provides an experience close to general anesthesia even at subanesthetic doses.

So, benzos do not provide surgical depth sedation like propofol, thiopental, etomidate, and ketamine. It is difficult to predict what you will experience.

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I've never heard of benzos having anesthetic properties. The part about midazolam used in executions was interesting, thats ridiculous that they would use that in replacement of an anesthetic.

In the 4 substances you mentioned capable of providing anesthesia, thiopental to me stands out. I know propofol is commonly used for surgeries but it has a much shorter duration of action and needs to be continuously administered through IV only. To reach anesthetic doses ketamine would also need to be administered intravenously, and it would be a dissociative anesthetic. Thiopental, as far as I know, can also be taken orally, and theres some limited records of it being used as a method of ctb on here.

In your opinion, what would be the best close-to-anesthetic or capable-of-anesthesia substance to use alongside SN? I've long been worried about my SI and anxiety from the symptoms that will occur during the process. Unfortunately most barbiturates seem to be obsolete in north america, although I've seen thiopental sold on indiamart (seems sketchy as hell tho). Any info or thoughts would be appreciated!

 

[Sunset Limited]

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I've never heard of benzos having anesthetic properties. The part about midazolam used in executions was interesting, thats ridiculous that they would use that in replacement of an anesthetic.

In the 4 substances you mentioned capable of providing anesthesia, thiopental to me stands out. I know propofol is commonly used for surgeries but it has a much shorter duration of action and needs to be continuously administered through IV only. To reach anesthetic doses ketamine would also need to be administered intravenously, and it would be a dissociative anesthetic. Thiopental, as far as I know, can also be taken orally, and theres some limited records of it being used as a method of ctb on here.

In your opinion, what would be the best close-to-anesthetic or capable-of-anesthesia substance to use alongside SN? I've long been worried about my SI and anxiety from the symptoms that will occur during the process. Unfortunately most barbiturates seem to be obsolete in north america, although I've seen thiopental sold on indiamart (seems sketchy as hell tho). Any info or thoughts would be appreciated!

I'm sorry about to sleep: ) Your answer may be phenobarbital. However, the long onset of action is a problem. I can write more tomorrow. See you.

 

[justwannadip]

I'm sorry about to sleep: ) Your answer may be phenobarbital. However, the long onset of action is a problem. I can write more tomorrow. See you.

Ok no worries! Talk tmrw.

 

[Sunset Limited]

Ok no worries! Talk tmrw.

Hello again. As I said before, the problem with phenobarbital is that it has a long onset of action. Since it is difficult to plan when you are semi-conscious, before you enter the deep sedation phase with phenobarbital, which we call twilight sedation, you may even forget to take the sn. Putting the sn in capsules might be a good idea. The downside of putting the sn in capsules is that it works slowly, but that is what we want anyway. This will buy you time until the deep sedation phase that we will reach with phenobarbital. The plan is simple.

- Grind 20 grams of phenobarbital into powder and put the sn in capsules.

- First take the phenobarbital. Then the capsules an hour later. From what I have read about attempts to overdose with phenobarbital, the loss of consciousness is an hour and a half. So being unconscious after the sn starts working after an hour. Since the capsules are opened in the intestine, vomiting does not change the result.

So go with Sn under deep enough sedation. I read from a thread of a user who successfully put SN in capsules that the process was slow but peaceful. You can read the relevant thread of the user below.

@Funkygibbon

Of course it is possible to go into more detail about the plan and read more about phenobarbital.

 

[justwannadip]

Hello again. As I said before, the problem with phenobarbital is that it has a long onset of action. Since it is difficult to plan when you are semi-conscious, before you enter the deep sedation phase with phenobarbital, which we call twilight sedation, you may even forget to take the sn. Putting the sn in capsules might be a good idea. The downside of putting the sn in capsules is that it works slowly, but that is what we want anyway. This will buy you time until the deep sedation phase that we will reach with phenobarbital. The plan is simple.

- Grind 20 grams of phenobarbital into powder and put the sn in capsules.

- First take the phenobarbital. Then the capsules an hour later. From what I have read about attempts to overdose with phenobarbital, the loss of consciousness is an hour and a half. So being unconscious after the sn starts working after an hour. Since the capsules are opened in the intestine, vomiting does not change the result.

So go with Sn under deep enough sedation. I read from a thread of a user who successfully put SN in capsules that the process was slow but peaceful. You can read the relevant thread of the user below.

@Funkygibbon

Of course it is possible to go into more detail about the plan and read more about phenobarbital.

This is interesting for sure. Not sure how practical or reliable SN in capsules would be, given that I don't hear it talked about much and that it would seem one would need to make and take 20+ capsules (the max amount a capsule carries according to other users is just over 1 gram). There doesn't seem to be a lot of research regarding the advantages of taking it by capsule and how much that suppresses vomiting or other symptoms.

For pheno, the obvious obstacle would be accessing it. I haven't found any reputable sellers of any barbiturates on the clearnet. I think indiamart has it listed (they also list thiopental) but that site seems very sketchy. If you know of any more information regarding pheno pls let me know.