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Rhizomorph1

Rhizomorph1

May you find peace in living or dying
Oct 24, 2023
549
Preamble

I see a lot of posts on this forum mentioning drug poisoning and/or cutting/stabbing as a method of choice.

I want to caution these methods for a few reasons. I respect the right to choose any method but I'm concerned that those using these methods may not be fully informed on the serious risks or incredibly low effectiveness of these methods.

Re: Ineffectiveness and Risks

Indeed, research by Harvard has placed drug poisonings at about 2% effective, and cutting/stabbing at 1% effective. Other studies have placed both drug poisonings and cutting the arms/legs at only 6% effective. Note that these are aggregate statistics including all drug poisonings, meaning that drugs in the PPH (e.g., SN, N, etc.) are still reliable as they aren't represented accurately by these statistics (they are outliers). However, most drugs outside the PPH that I see people mentioning a lot – such as antidepressants, antipsychotics, anti-inflammatory drugs, and the vast majority of OTC or prescription medications – are well-represented by this statistic.

Meanwhile, the number of potential adverse and painful experiences from drug poisonings or cutting – which often involve long-term complications or injury – are considerable. Cutting bears the risk of infectious disease, traumatic organ damage, hospitalization, and more.

Drug poisonings bear the risk of traumatic brain injury, serotonin syndrome, non-fatal seizures (e.g., antidepressants), liver failure which is incredibly drawn out and painful (e.g., medications containing acetaminophen, ibuprofen or paracetamol; many prescription opioids that are combined with anti-inflammatory drugs come to mind), and various psychosomatic effects ranging from nausea, chills, sweats, headaches, hallucinations, tremors, convulsions, muscle pains, abdominal pain, the list goes on...

Part of the reason that these methods are ineffective is because with drug poisonings the potential to vomit up the drugs and fail ctb is incredibly high. Likewise, with cutting one is very likely to pass out before they can make deep enough and a high enough number of cuts to reliably die.

For these reasons, drug poisonings and cutting can not be considered reliable or peaceful. The only benefit is accessibility but accessibility isn't very meaningful if it just means waking up traumatized in hospital with serious long-term injuries.

I recommend against these methods due to the considerably low efficacy and very high risk of these methods. If one chooses to attempt them regardless, consider an anti-emetic to reduce vomiting and be sure you are informed on the high-risk low-benefit nature of these methods. Even with anti-emetics or methods to reduce/prevent vomiting, drug-poisonings should still be considered unreliable.

There are far lower risk, more effective, and accessible alternatives such as gas (AKA exit bag), charcoal, SN, etc.

Re: Spontaneous and Poorly Planned CTB

The majority of people I see attempting these methods tend to be the ones making spontaneous attempts at ctb. Unless someone is hunting you down to do egregious things to you and time is of the essence (or whatever similar corollary), then please plan your suicide thoroughly with adequate deliberation, materials, etc.

I know it sucks because our fundamental existential dread just wants us to fucking die already; I can relate. But there can be serious consequences to under planned or spontaneous suicide attempts that just make the dread and suffering worse. Take the time to plan and be mindful rather than hastefully ctb.

The benefits of psychospiritual preparation for dying are enormous. While we prepare, I urge people to take the time to meditate on how to ease oneself into dying gracefully. Savour the small joys, even if they are rare or only come during moments of simultaneous pain. Go slow and be easy on yourself. I say this with utmost care to reduce suffering.

May you find peace in living or dying ❤️
-Rhizo
 
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Rhizomorph1

Rhizomorph1

May you find peace in living or dying
Oct 24, 2023
549
Would intravenous injection eliminate the vomiting?
It would not eliminate vomiting but would prevent the loss of any drugs from the vomiting that occurs.

IV and rectal administration are both optimal routes of administration (ROA) for this reason. Some drugs may not be suitable for these ROAs though. For example, if a very large amount of a drug is needed it will be difficult to dissolve it in a small quantity of liquid for injection. Likewise some drugs are caustic and can burn or irritate the rectum/intestinal wall.

Although IV or rectal ROAs May increase the reliability, drug poisonings – asides from those mentioned in the PPH – should still be considered very ineffective and unreliable. The increased effectiveness from alternative ROAs will be marginal in most cases.
 
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hi-okbye

hi-okbye

7.7.2023<3
May 5, 2023
660
I love this you stated everything perfectly. thank you i think a lot of people need this.

I've noticed it a lot as well, the countless amount of people talking about these methods. It's important to always do research beforehand.
 
Rhizomorph1

Rhizomorph1

May you find peace in living or dying
Oct 24, 2023
549
I love this you stated everything perfectly. thank you i think a lot of people need this.

I've noticed it a lot as well, the countless amount of people talking about these methods. It's important to always do research beforehand.
Yup! About half the reason I made this thread is just so I don't have to type it all out again in individual threads - now I can just link people to this thread.

I feel bad because I think for a lot of people blades and prescription drugs are all they have access to and they're desperate. But I fear people will make their situations far worse by attempting these methods :aw:
 
hi-okbye

hi-okbye

7.7.2023<3
May 5, 2023
660
Yup! About half the reason I made this thread is just so I don't have to type it all out again in individual threads - now I can just link people to this thread.

I feel bad because I think for a lot of people blades and prescription drugs are all they have access to and they're desperate. But I fear people will make their situations far worse by attempting these methods :aw:
yes! this is very helpful, I've been seeing you respond to all these threads and even I was thinking like damn arnt you tired at this point. thank you for the help in this community as always.

and yes it's very sad to see all these desperate people just looking for ways out :(
I wish methods were easily accessible, and not as difficult. even things like hanging can be so hard for some.
 
Rhizomorph1

Rhizomorph1

May you find peace in living or dying
Oct 24, 2023
549
yes! this is very helpful, I've been seeing you respond to all these threads and even I was thinking like damn arnt you tired at this point. thank you for the help in this community as always.

and yes it's very sad to see all these desperate people just looking for ways out :(
I wish methods were easily accessible, and not as difficult. even things like hanging can be so hard for some.
Helping other people is the only thing keeping me going at this point. I'm hoping I can be a beacon of light so that the next generation can suffer a bit less. And I think allowing people to have a peaceful death should they choose is a part of that solution. It's my dying gift; a legacy I can leave behind and feel I've actualized some sort of vision. Even if the world has really scarred me; I refuse to be vengeful or pessimistic... my death can make a difference, even small.

I'm also happy to give back since this community has given me the key to my own prison.

The gift of knowledge and kindness is no small favour :)

But I am definitely tired as we all are. May we find peace very soon. I've appreciated seeing you around here as well. The solidarity helps a ton 🫂
 
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hi-okbye

hi-okbye

7.7.2023<3
May 5, 2023
660
Helping other people is the only thing keeping me going at this point. I'm hoping I can be a beacon of light so that the next generation can suffer a bit less. And I think allowing people to have a peaceful death should they choose is a part of that solution. It's my dying gift; a legacy I can leave behind and feel I've actualized some sort of vision. Even if the world has really scarred me; I refuse to be vengeful or pessimistic... my death can make a difference, even small.

I'm also happy to give back since this community has given me the key to my own prison.

The gift of knowledge and kindness is no small favour :)

But I am definitely tired as we all are. May we find peace very soon. I've appreciated seeing you around here as well. The solidarity helps a ton 🫂
honestly same here. helping, even a little on this site has been one of the very few things that makes me feel like I have a purpose almost before I ctb. I was always sad I would leave and that all I've done is bad, but I'm glad I put something good into this world before I left.

I hope we both find the peace and freedom we're searching for, along with everyone else.
If it makes you feel any better, just know I think you've done just what you searched for.
thank you :)
 
Meditation guide

Meditation guide

Always was, is, and always shall be.
Jun 22, 2020
6,089
That's a good article you posted but I did not see 1.5% you mentioned for drug overdoses. I read it twice looking for that.

I saw this:
  • Most nonfatal self-harm treated in the emergency department results from poisoning/overdose (64%)
It sounded like the article was saying that any method that leaves time to call for help is less likely to be fatal, which includes drugs. Failed suicides were mostly from overdose drug attempts. It would also include sodium nitrite or other types of poisonings.
 
Rhizomorph1

Rhizomorph1

May you find peace in living or dying
Oct 24, 2023
549
That's a good article you posted but I did not see 1.5% you mentioned for drug overdoses. I read it twice looking for that.

I saw this:
  • Most nonfatal self-harm treated in the emergency department results from poisoning/overdose (64%)
It sounded like the article was saying that any method that leaves time to call for help is less likely to be fatal, which includes drugs. Failed suicides were mostly from overdose drug attempts. It would also include sodium nitrite or other types of poisonings.
*EDIT: I've now updated the OP to reflect archived versions of the study that show the table and another study with similar statistics.

As I mentioned later on in the OP, they removed the original statistics. If I had to guess they were removed because people like myself kept sharing them on these forums haha

You can either take my word for it or I can try to corroborate with other studies.

From my memory, other methods included hanging at around 60% effectiveness, gas around 40%, and guns at upwards of 90% (I don't remember exact figures). I'm not sure where jumping was on the table they had.
 
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dreamingofrest

dreamingofrest

so, so tired
Nov 7, 2023
124
This is really important! I really appreciate this post and all the work you put into making sure the most vulnerable people on this site have someone looking out for them.
 
Meditation guide

Meditation guide

Always was, is, and always shall be.
Jun 22, 2020
6,089
Indeed, research by Harvard ** has placed drug poisonings at about 1.5% effective,

So you are saying they removed the original part about only less than 2 out of 100 drug overdoses of people trying to commit suicide were fatal? But you saw it before they removed it?
 
Rhizomorph1

Rhizomorph1

May you find peace in living or dying
Oct 24, 2023
549
Indeed, research by Harvard ** has placed drug poisonings at about 1.5% effective,

So you are saying they removed the original part about only less than 2 out of 100 drug overdoses of people trying to commit suicide were fatal? But you saw it before they removed it?
Yes this is correct. Thus the **
 
straydog

straydog

Member
Aug 27, 2023
42
Thank you so much for this, Rhizo! I've been noticing an uptick in posts requesting guidance on how to OD or cut so having this informative thread as a resource to link to is such a good thing. The study from H may be redacted, but corroborating stats can be found here: https://lostallhope.com/suicide-methods/statistics-most-lethal-methods

The section about the importance of thorough research and discouraging acting on impulse is written so compassionately too, looking out for people who are desperate and vulnerable is really meaningful. ❤️
 
Rhizomorph1

Rhizomorph1

May you find peace in living or dying
Oct 24, 2023
549
Thank you so much for this, Rhizo! I've been noticing an uptick in posts requesting guidance on how to OD or cut so having this informative thread as a resource to link to is such a good thing. The study from H may be redacted, but corroborating stats can be found here: https://lostallhope.com/suicide-methods/statistics-most-lethal-methods

The section about the importance of thorough research and discouraging acting on impulse is written so compassionately too, looking out for people who are desperate and vulnerable is really meaningful. ❤️
Thank you for the updated stats. Il see if I can get the mods to allow me to update the OP to add those stats as they are slightly higher (6%). Evidently cutting and drug poisonings are between 1-6% effective based on different studies. Importantly, the location of cutting also makes a difference which I will clarify in the OP!

Appreciate it :)
 
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Rhizomorph1

Rhizomorph1

May you find peace in living or dying
Oct 24, 2023
549
What if the increased suffering is the goal? If I can't end myself swiftly, then the only option is to layer acts upon acts until I have a neurological burn out and die of grief
Then that's your choice.

This thread is about informing people of the risks. It does not intend to advocate for or against them.

Do with the information as you will. You are a free agent with the cognitive liberty to choose suffering if you wish 👍

I just hope you have thoroughly contemplated and truly understand what it means to do such to yourself. Forecasting what the feelings and consequences will be "like" vs. actually experiencing it in the moment are two separate things; thus the source of much regret.

If you are confident you are informed then I support whatever your decision.
 
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AshersGirl

AshersGirl

Girl, Interrupted
Apr 29, 2022
316
Thanks for posting this and for making it a sticky. I mostly lurk here, read and research, but in line with the topic wanted to detail my own experiences.

When I was young (tween to midteen) the internet was new and certainly not common place in most working or even middle class homes. People couldn't afford computers. There was therefore no such access to resources like SaSu, or medical research papers detailing methods, or amount of a drug likely to be fatal etc. Most of my thoughts and ideations stemmed around what methods were easily accessible combined with whatever portrayals of suicide I found in media, which as we know are unrealistic.

I was 12 when I first overdosed - paracetamol. Can't remember how much but likely nowhere near enough to do damage, I probably naively thought whatever the caution for the recommended daily dose on the box was, if I tripled it it would kill me. 🙄 Had a minor tummy ache but no ill effects.

Over the next decade I spent a lot of time in accident and emergency for varying similarly misguided attempts.

I self harmed regularly with cutting and burning. I slit my wrists fully only once - once was more than enough because all I succeeded in doing was damaging the tendons and still have minimal feeling in one of my hands as a result decades later. It's not like the movies. You don't bleed out and fall asleep in a bath of warm water. It hurts like I can't describe if you hit a tendon, like pins and needles magnified a hundred fold shooting up your arm. Least it did for me. Also - my arms are covered in scars which never really faded. I was however not high risk for infection as I always had antiseptic, clean blades and steristrips on hand (I used to joke I was a responsible and safe self harmer 🙄). Still could have gotten infected though.

The varying overdoses I took over the years (more significant in volume than the first) were for things like:

Paracetamol yet again in higher volume: stomach pumped and or drinking liquid charcoal = not fun. Neither was awaiting results to see if I had sustained lasting damage to my liver which miraculously I never did.

Proplus - high strength caffeine pills basically almost put me into cardiac arrest then ensured I wouldn't sleep for days. Rather stupidly combatted that with benzos and weed but it did cure the insomnia.

Aspirin - similar to paracetamol but MUCH worse. Worst stomach pain imaginable for days, couldn't eat and barely drink, lived off milk of magnesia which seemed to help with the pain.

Various antidepressants - hallucinations. Serotonin syndrome. 100% not recommended.

I did not sustain significant lasting damage somehow, but I'm very aware now how much worse it could have been. It did leave me with a very strong aversion to swallowing any pills though, somewhat like muscle memory I gag and my body wants to reject anything vaguely pill like I swallow, even if it's a single vitamin tablet. Even so many years later.

Just my two cents.
 
Rhizomorph1

Rhizomorph1

May you find peace in living or dying
Oct 24, 2023
549
Thanks for posting this and for making it a sticky. I mostly lurk here, read and research, but in line with the topic wanted to detail my own experiences.

When I was young (tween to midteen) the internet was new and certainly not common place in most working or even middle class homes. People couldn't afford computers. There was therefore no such access to resources like SaSu, or medical research papers detailing methods, or amount of a drug likely to be fatal etc. Most of my thoughts and ideations stemmed around what methods were easily accessible combined with whatever portrayals of suicide I found in media, which as we know are unrealistic.

I was 12 when I first overdosed - paracetamol. Can't remember how much but likely nowhere near enough to do damage, I probably naively thought whatever the caution for the recommended daily dose on the box was, if I tripled it it would kill me. 🙄 Had a minor tummy ache but no ill effects.

Over the next decade I spent a lot of time in accident and emergency for varying similarly misguided attempts.

I self harmed regularly with cutting and burning. I slit my wrists fully only once - once was more than enough because all I succeeded in doing was damaging the tendons and still have minimal feeling in one of my hands as a result decades later. It's not like the movies. You don't bleed out and fall asleep in a bath of warm water. It hurts like I can't describe if you hit a tendon, like pins and needles magnified a hundred fold shooting up your arm. Least it did for me. Also - my arms are covered in scars which never really faded. I was however not high risk for infection as I always had antiseptic, clean blades and steristrips on hand (I used to joke I was a responsible and safe self harmer 🙄). Still could have gotten infected though.

The varying overdoses I took over the years (more significant in volume than the first) were for things like:

Paracetamol yet again in higher volume: stomach pumped and or drinking liquid charcoal = not fun. Neither was awaiting results to see if I had sustained lasting damage to my liver which miraculously I never did.

Proplus - high strength caffeine pills basically almost put me into cardiac arrest then ensured I wouldn't sleep for days. Rather stupidly combatted that with benzos and weed but it did cure the insomnia.

Aspirin - similar to paracetamol but MUCH worse. Worst stomach pain imaginable for days, couldn't eat and barely drink, lived off milk of magnesia which seemed to help with the pain.

Various antidepressants - hallucinations. Serotonin syndrome. 100% not recommended.

I did not sustain significant lasting damage somehow, but I'm very aware now how much worse it could have been. It did leave me with a very strong aversion to swallowing any pills though, somewhat like muscle memory I gag and my body wants to reject anything vaguely pill like I swallow, even if it's a single vitamin tablet. Even so many years later.

Just my two cents.
Thank you very much for sharing your experience. Your experience sounds incredibly gruelling and I think highlights much of the issues with these methods. Cautionary tales like this are so important especially when there is so much desperation among those looking to die as soon and accessibly as possible.

I hope anyone considering these methods stumbles across this post and reads your experience because it would save a lot of people from significant suffering and injury.

I hope you've found a bit of inner peace in the time since your attempts; or have more peaceful options if you're still suicidal :heart:
 
TheLastGreySky

TheLastGreySky

Experienced
Nov 24, 2023
219
So, I want to point something out, idk how common this is but, my brother used to be a severe cutter, and at one point he was very suicidal, however years later when he wasn't suicidal, he had to be hospitalized because one of his veins burst from years of abuse and started to clot and almost ended his life.
Like I get it when it comes to suicide, if you chose to end your life that's your choice, HOWEVER I find it terrible to think that you could recover and live a happy life and then out of nowhere something you've done to yourself years ago caused you this or like say a brain aneurysm and you essentially destroy everything you've built and hurt whoever you've met after the darkest stage in your life.

I have scars from cutting, and they were never productive.
 
U

Unsure and alone

It's a slow fade
Dec 10, 2023
116
Yup! About half the reason I made this thread is just so I don't have to type it all out again in individual threads - now I can just link people to this thread.

I feel bad because I think for a lot of people blades and prescription drugs are all they have access to and they're desperate. But I fear people will make their situations far worse by attempting these methods
 
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C

cutebat

Member
Dec 20, 2023
6
And with poisoning… ordering chemicals online can get you in trouble with law if found?
 
C

cutebat

Member
Dec 20, 2023
6
There are currently no active sources of N online. They are all scams.

The only way to get N right now is to fly to Latin America and find the right pharmacy. You're still taking a shot in the dark though.
With SN is it like you are conscious for about 12 minutes? You can panic and call ambulance after taking it then. And head will hurt a lot?
 
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