Resource A Caution About Drug Poisonings (ODs) and Cutting

[Sid19]

They are relatively equivalent. Meto has more use by members on this forum, but their pharmacology is quite similar. I would use whichever one you have access to, experience with, etc.

If you have both and can't decide, I'd go with the meto simply on the principle of it being more commonly prescribed/used.

While I do think I'll test myself before the ctb I still get nervous about the fact that it is also an anti psychotic med, and tend to have some bad side effects. I only heard about such cases in a very less people though, so there's that.

 

[reborn87]

They are relatively equivalent. Meto has more use by members on this forum, but their pharmacology is quite similar. I would use whichever one you have access to, experience with, etc.

If you have both and can't decide, I'd go with the meto simply on the principle of it being more commonly prescribed/used.

I got 14 tablets of meto 10 mg each and have 50mg Amitryptaline 180 tablets and Xanax and some diazepam

All else I need is alcohol? Can I do this in bathtub painlessly?

 

[reborn87]

Then that's your choice.

This thread is about informing people of the risks. It does not intend to advocate for or against them.

Do with the information as you will. You are a free agent with the cognitive liberty to choose suffering if you wish

I just hope you have thoroughly contemplated and truly understand what it means to do such to yourself. Forecasting what the feelings and consequences will be "like" vs. actually experiencing it in the moment are two separate things; thus the source of much regret.

If you are confident you are informed then I support whatever your decision.

If you have meto you won't vomit right? I finally got it.

Yes , just changed it from charcoal briquettes.

Where do we buy charcoal briquettes?

 

[Cara7177]

I tried with pills last month, and because I failed to correctly gauge my tolerance, I woke up at an inpatient psychiatric facility where I had to do art therapy which only annoyed me.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

I got 14 tablets of meto 10 mg each and have 50mg Amitryptaline 180 tablets and Xanax and some diazepam

All else I need is alcohol? Can I do this in bathtub painlessly?

This should work I believe. Triple check the dosages in the "cardiac switch" section of the peaceful pill handbook.

You do not need to take more than 30mg of metoclopramide. I also recommend taking a "test dose" of the benzodiazepines a few weeks beforehand to ensure the dose results in a full blackout.

Do not mix with alcohol as all this will do is increase the likelihood of vomitting. The dosage of amitryptilene should be fine tuned to ensure it is plenty to result in cardiac death alone. The benzodiazepines are just there so you are unconscious and do not feel any pain from the cardiac event (likely heart attack).

A bath tub may improve the reliability of this method marginally but you should be aiming for a sufficient dose of amitryptilene to do the job in the first place. "Failsafes" should not be used as replacements – only as adjuncts – to existing methods; follow the protocol in the peaceful pill handbook all the same.

Dosage is the most important factor, and the peaceful pill handbook is the most evidence-based resource on dosage for cardiac switches.

 

[reborn87]

This should work I believe. Triple check the dosages in the "cardiac switch" section of the peaceful pill handbook.

You do not need to take more than 30mg of metoclopramide. I also recommend taking a "test dose" of the benzodiazepines a few weeks beforehand to ensure the dose results in a full blackout.

Do not mix with alcohol as all this will do is increase the likelihood of vomitting. The dosage of amitryptilene should be fine tuned to ensure it is plenty to result in cardiac death alone. The benzodiazepines are just there so you are unconscious and do not feel any pain from the cardiac event (likely heart attack).

A bath tub may improve the reliability of this method marginally but you should be aiming for a sufficient dose of amitryptilene to do the job in the first place. "Failsafes" should not be used as replacements – only as adjuncts – to existing methods; follow the protocol in the peaceful pill handbook all the same.

Dosage is the most important factor, and the peaceful pill handbook is the most evidence-based resource on dosage for cardiac switches.

Amitriptyline alone can help with CBt? And I shouldn't take alcohol with this mix of drugs, because it can cause the vomiting? Thank you so much for your response. I weigh 140 pounds and I'm 5 feet tall do you know how much amitriptyline I'll need? 180 pills of 50mg and 180 pills of 25 mg. I have maybe 200 .25 MG Xanax and 30 to 40 mg. of Valium in addition to the meto.

Amitriptyline alone can help with CBt? And I shouldn't take alcohol with this mix of drugs, because it can cause the vomiting? Thank you so much for your response. I weigh 140 pounds and I'm 5 feet tall do you know how much amitriptyline I'll need? 180 pills of 50mg and 180 pills of 25 mg. I have maybe 200 .25 MG Xanax and 30 to 40 mg. of Valium in addition to the meto.

How much milligrams of Xanax is recommended?

 

[letsmakeitagoodworl]

Yup! About half the reason I made this thread is just so I don't have to type it all out again in individual threads - now I can just link people to this thread.

I feel bad because I think for a lot of people blades and prescription drugs are all they have access to and they're desperate. But I fear people will make their situations far worse by attempting these methods

Yea there were a few at residential who tried severing arteries. They lost alot of blood but not enough to need blood transfusions, to sustain a serious enough gash to kill oneself would cause immense pain. Plus clotting may occur unless it's a hugely deep wound

Also one person who tried Severed the nerve and lost alot of use of their hand, so only worsened their situation

Just a truely awful way to go imo, no pain meds will stop someone feeling that.

 

[leyl]

Preamble

I see a lot of posts on this forum mentioning drug poisoning and/or cutting/stabbing as a method of choice.

I want to caution these methods for a few reasons. I respect the right to choose any method but I'm concerned that those using these methods may not be fully informed on the serious risks or incredibly low effectiveness of these methods.

Re: Ineffectiveness and Risks

Indeed, research by Harvard has placed drug poisonings at about 2% effective, and cutting/stabbing at 1% effective. Other studies have placed both drug poisonings and cutting the arms/legs at only 6% effective. Note that these are aggregate statistics including all drug poisonings, meaning that drugs in the PPH (e.g., SN, N, etc.) are still reliable as they aren't represented accurately by these statistics (they are outliers). However, most drugs outside the PPH that I see people mentioning a lot – such as antidepressants, antipsychotics, anti-inflammatory drugs, and the vast majority of OTC or prescription medications – are well-represented by this statistic.

Meanwhile, the number of potential adverse and painful experiences from drug poisonings or cutting – which often involve long-term complications or injury – are considerable. Cutting bears the risk of infectious disease, traumatic organ damage, hospitalization, and more.

Drug poisonings bear the risk of traumatic brain injury, serotonin syndrome, non-fatal seizures (e.g., antidepressants), liver failure which is incredibly drawn out and painful (e.g., medications containing acetaminophen, ibuprofen or paracetamol; many prescription opioids that are combined with anti-inflammatory drugs come to mind), and various psychosomatic effects ranging from nausea, chills, sweats, headaches, hallucinations, tremors, convulsions, muscle pains, abdominal pain, the list goes on...

Part of the reason that these methods are ineffective is because with drug poisonings the potential to vomit up the drugs and fail ctb is incredibly high. Likewise, with cutting one is very likely to pass out before they can make deep enough and a high enough number of cuts to reliably die.

For these reasons, drug poisonings and cutting can not be considered reliable or peaceful. The only benefit is accessibility but accessibility isn't very meaningful if it just means waking up traumatized in hospital with serious long-term injuries.

I recommend against these methods due to the considerably low efficacy and very high risk of these methods. If one chooses to attempt them regardless, consider an anti-emetic to reduce vomiting and be sure you are informed on the high-risk low-benefit nature of these methods. Even with anti-emetics or methods to reduce/prevent vomiting, drug-poisonings should still be considered unreliable.

There are far lower risk, more effective, and accessible alternatives such as gas (AKA exit bag), charcoal, SN, etc.

Re: Spontaneous and Poorly Planned CTB

The majority of people I see attempting these methods tend to be the ones making spontaneous attempts at ctb. Unless someone is hunting you down to do egregious things to you and time is of the essence (or whatever similar corollary), then please plan your suicide thoroughly with adequate deliberation, materials, etc.

I know it sucks because our fundamental existential dread just wants us to fucking die already; I can relate. But there can be serious consequences to under planned or spontaneous suicide attempts that just make the dread and suffering worse. Take the time to plan and be mindful rather than hastefully ctb.

The benefits of psychospiritual preparation for dying are enormous. While we prepare, I urge people to take the time to meditate on how to ease oneself into dying gracefully. Savour the small joys, even if they are rare or only come during moments of simultaneous pain. Go slow and be easy on yourself. I say this with utmost care to reduce suffering.

May you find peace in living or dying
-Rhizo

Quick question: what is "PPH (e.g., SN, N, etc.)" ?

 

[Daylight]

Really appreciate this information.

 

[gemineye]

What about piercing an artery? Like the radial? It's only a few millimetres below the skin and the rapid blood loss can result in death within a few minutes, under ten. That's what I've heard and it makes sense

Yea there were a few at residential who tried severing arteries. They lost alot of blood but not enough to need blood transfusions, to sustain a serious enough gash to kill oneself would cause immense pain. Plus clotting may occur unless it's a hugely deep wound

Also one person who tried Severed the nerve and lost alot of use of their hand, so only worsened their situation

Just a truely awful way to go imo, no pain meds will stop someone feeling that.

What about piercing the artery and letting the blood kind of drain out? My understanding is that once the artery is pierced the blood loss is rapid and leads to unconsciousness within a minute or so and death between 3 to 6 minutes.

I tried with pills last month, and because I failed to correctly gauge my tolerance, I woke up at an inpatient psychiatric facility where I had to do art therapy which only annoyed me.

Oh Cara … I don't know whether to laugh or cry. "Art Therapy" … and we do no belong there. No disrespect at all to patients of those facilities. Suicide Sufferers/Survivors need our own Suicide Informed Care Providers, Professionals, Community etc. We are stigmatised, misunderstood, side-eyed, vilified and alllllll the rest of it. It is the loneliest battle … fighting it bad at the moment because I am fighting it completely alone. I only speak about it after the fact. After the "thwarted" plan. TBH I am terrified to make a serious attempt but I am so worthless to everyone. Please don't say I'm not. I really am. I am a carcass to everyone … I wish I hated myself more … then I wouldn't hesitate and I'd make everyone's wish a reality. I feel like a failure and a coward for not doing it already.

 

[TheDepartureLounge]

I'd no idea drug poisonings were so ineffective. Or is this just part of the same exercise? Ally hysterical media emphasis on even small amounts proving fatal to 'research' persuading us that drugs don't work anyway and what at first glance appears to be two internally contradictory arguments turns out to be a means to the same end. Just a thought.

At any rate how would you asses a stash comprising 35g of Amitriptyline (700 x 50mg tablets) in addition to 84 x10mg Metoclopramide, 120 x 400mg Cimetidine as an H2 inhibitor and 150 x 10mg of Diazepam (Bensedin, to act as a muscle relaxant)?

I did add 150 x 25mg Dothiepin (Dosulepin), but this was mostly to appease the frustration of discovering that a drug I used to get on prescription, and to which academic papers were suddenly assigning an impressively fatal overdose record, may have been the means of my deliverance all along.

The Metoclopramide and Cimetidine are legitimate and I'm as confident of the Bensedin as I can be given the site where it was acquired and the number of forum posts. I hope I'm not stretching the rules if I say I bought the Amitriptyline and Dosulepin from a company claiming to be in India.

I cannot swear to the authenticity of any of these of course, and since testing sites restrict samples to a single pill or tablet I'll just have to take things on trust.

I'd like to acquire flunitrazepam on the recommendation of the impressive 2006 WOZZ handbook. I've found where flunitrazepam's offered for sale but there is no tapping into the experience of other members as I understand it ('anyone say whether X company's genuine or not?'), which rather defeats the object unless I've misunderstood something.

Thanks for this information and all your hard work.

 

[numbdumbtired]

Hi, I'm new here. Thanks for this. An overdose was one of the top methods I was thinking about. Mostly because of reading about people who'd accidentally offed themselves with too much xanax and alcohol so I thought it would be possible for me to do the same. It sounded like a nice and easy way to go since it could even happen by accident. Is that not really possible? I've been hoarding xanax just in case. Anyway, thanks, I'm glad I read your post before I tried anything.

 

[TheDepartureLounge]

I'd no idea drug poisonings were so ineffective. Or is this just part of the same exercise? Ally hysterical media emphasis on even small amounts proving fatal to 'research' persuading us that drugs don't work anyway and what at first glance appears to be two internally contradictory arguments turns out to be a means to the same end. Just a thought.

At any rate how would you asses a stash comprising 35g of Amitriptyline (700 x 50mg tablets) in addition to 84 x10mg Metoclopramide, 120 x 400mg Cimetidine as an H2 inhibitor and 150 x 10mg of Diazepam (Bensedin, to act as a muscle relaxant)?

I did add 150 x 25mg Dothiepin (Dosulepin), but this was mostly to appease the frustration of discovering that a drug I used to get on prescription, and to which academic papers were suddenly assigning an impressively fatal overdose record, may have been the means of my deliverance all along.

The Metoclopramide and Cimetidine are legitimate and I'm as confident of the Bensedin as I can be given the site where it was acquired and the number of forum posts. I hope I'm not stretching the rules if I say I bought the Amitriptyline and Dosulepin from a company claiming to be in India.

I cannot swear to the authenticity of any of these of course, and since testing sites restrict samples to a single pill or tablet I'll just have to take things on trust.

I'd like to acquire flunitrazepam on the recommendation of the impressive 2006 WOZZ handbook. I've found where flunitrazepam's offered for sale but there is no tapping into the experience of other members as I understand it ('anyone say whether X company's genuine or not?'), which rather defeats the object unless I've misunderstood something.

Thanks for this information and all your hard work.

If these amounts seem excessive by the way I should perhaps add that I'm almost 20 st. (280lbs) and need a bit more than others, tho' I'm also getting on in years and have no tolerance when it comes to psych meds, which might be enough to compensate I don't know.

 

[Dara Argith]

Then that's your choice.

This thread is about informing people of the risks. It does not intend to advocate for or against them.

Do with the information as you will. You are a free agent with the cognitive liberty to choose suffering if you wish

I just hope you have thoroughly contemplated and truly understand what it means to do such to yourself. Forecasting what the feelings and consequences will be "like" vs. actually experiencing it in the moment are two separate things; thus the source of much regret.

If you are confident you are informed then I support whatever your decision.

I'm so glad you've given your blessing for me to do WHAT I WANT WITH MY BODY. It really clears air. What a nothing post. You make me want to cut until I can see my bones

 

[Rhizomorph1]

I'm so glad you've given your blessing for me to do WHAT I WANT WITH MY BODY. It really clears air. What a nothing post. You make me want to cut until I can see my bones

You may be reading into it in a way that was never intended.

I assure you there was no ounce of me being condescending or trying to gatekeep your experience. I apologize if it came across that way.

Sincerely wishing you peace and freedom regardless

-R

 

[Alex Fermentopathy]

with cutting one is very likely to pass out before they can make deep enough and a high enough number of cuts to reliably die.

Do you the mean passing out in this case is unreliable due to the possible medical intervention? Or for other reasons?

 

[Rhizomorph1]

Do you the mean passing out in this case is unreliable due to the possible medical intervention? Or for other reasons?

What I mean is that a fatal cut needs to be deep and large enough to open an artery to the point where enough bleeding occurs to die. This takes a lot of effort. Usually blood clotting will prevent a person from fully bleeding to death but the amount of blood lost can be enough to lose consciousness, making further/deeper cuts impossible.

I.e., a person would need to push through a lot of pain to do this quick enough before losing consciousness.

The fact remains that most people are not using surgical grade butchers tools to sever limbs or tear open arteries so the method remains fairly unreliable.

Not only do the statistics support this fact but I've also personally witnessed a number of online self harm videos where people reportedly survived quite large lacerations to their body, including areas where arteries were obviously hit.

 

[Alex Fermentopathy]

Not only do the statistics support this fact but I've also personally witnessed a number of online self harm videos where people reportedly survived quite large lacerations to their body, including areas where arteries were obviously hit.

Still we don't know have they survived because of medical intervention, or on their own. And that's a very important distinction for some.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

Still we don't know have they survived because of medical intervention, or on their own. And that's a very important distinction for some.

We can probably infer from other studies of successful suicides that are around 90% effective; where there is also a window of time where one could receive medical intervention (e.g., SN; 87%), that medical intervention should not account for more than 13% of failures.

Proportionally, it is highly unlikely that medical intervention should significantly bias the 2-6% statistic.

Even a very liberal estimate would probably suggest it is still less than 10% effective. And that's still applying some guesswork.

The 2-6% statistic should therefore be heeded as accurate. Outliers are very unlikely to exist much outside of this confidence interval.

 

[billie]

I have no choice but to kms with an overdose and slit my wrists

 

[Rhizomorph1]

I have no choice but to kms with an overdose and slit my wrists

I'm sorry to hear that. I would not expect it to be successful, and may prepare yourself for pain or injury, but I wish you peace and success regardless.

Otherwise, there are other methods on this forum with far higher reliability.

 

[Alex Fermentopathy]

We can probably infer from other studies of successful suicides that are around 90% effective; where there is also a window of time where one could receive medical intervention (e.g., SN; 87%), that medical intervention should not account for more than 13% of failures.

Proportionally, it is highly unlikely that medical intervention should significantly bias the 2-6% statistic.

Even a very liberal estimate would probably suggest it is still less than 10% effective. And that's still applying some guesswork.

The 2-6% statistic should therefore be heeded as accurate. Outliers are very unlikely to exist much outside of this confidence interval.

Statistic might be that low becaus it includes a lot of demonstrative attempts, that is people who never intended to die.

 

[Ash]

Statistic might be that low becaus it includes a lot of demonstrative attempts, that is people who never intended to die.

One of the first things they ask you if you get medical treatment is if you intended to end your life. Or at least that's my experience in the UK. Thankfully we've come a long way in understanding that there is a distinction between self harm and suicidal intent.

 

[Alex Fermentopathy]

One of the first things they ask you if you get medical treatment is if you intended to end your life. Or at least that's my experience in the UK. Thankfully we've come a long way in understanding that there is a distinction between self harm and suicidal intent.

There is also a difference between self-harm and demonstrative suicide attempt.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

Statistic might be that low becaus it includes a lot of demonstrative attempts, that is people who never intended to die.

Demonstrative attempts should be represented by other suicide stats too, but we still see 87%+ successes.

So I'm not sure that reasoning accounts for such a low rate of failure.

 

[Demian]

I wish I had a gun now.

I attempted suicide on 15/11/2023 with 21 grams of phenobarbital (2x the fatal dose) and 3 grams of morphine (12x the fatal dose). I have no tolerance to these drugs or to any opioid or barbiturate. I was in a Glasgow 3 coma (the most severe) and, miraculously, I survived without permanent sequelae.

But I still wanna die and Idk what I'm gonna do.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

There is also a difference between self-harm and demonstrative suicide attempt.

The studies omitted cases of self-harm if you read the methods sections.

I wish I had a gun now.

I attempted suicide on 15/11/2023 with 21 grams of phenobarbital (2x the fatal dose) and 3 grams of morphine (12x the fatal dose). I have no tolerance to these drugs or to any opioid or barbiturate. I was in a Glasgow 3 coma (the most severe) and, miraculously, I survived without permanent sequelae.

But I still wanna die and Idk what I'm gonna do.

SN or partial hanging are both generally reliable methods. Hanging can be combined with anxiolytic or analgesic drugs such as alcohol, benzos, opioids, or barbiturates to reduce pain and SI. Just food for thought.

As with anything, make sure to thoroughly deliberate the decision and hopefully discuss with a few third parties if possible. But, it's not my place on this forum to inundate anyone with "ought tos".

It's all in the spirit of empowering choice & easing pain

I hope my sentiments and the information helps!


We need more expansive MAID laws & trained, person-centered organizations dedicated to deliberating rationally with patients about the pros and cons of dying. Prohibition never works and naturally underground communities like these arise to fill the gap.

 

[Alex Fermentopathy]

Demonstrative attempts should be represented by other suicide stats too, but we still see 87%+ successes.

So I'm not sure that reasoning accounts for such a low rate of failure.

I am sure they are not equally distributed across the methods. People who make demonstrative attempts are prone to chose one methods over another.

The studies omitted cases of self-harm if you read the methods sections.

Thanks for pointing that out, but I never said that low success rate has something to do with self-harm.

 

[Sylveon]

May I ask what does a demonstrative attempt mean?

 

[sanitystruggle]

May I ask what does a demonstrative attempt mean?

A "cry for help". An attempt to draw attention to one's anguish and situation without a serious intent to follow through.