Method Rare opportunity to CTB before ward (UK)

[LonelyKitten]

but, if you can technically leave, why call the police to have you back?...
so, I don't understand, it couldnt be illegal that you left and booked a flight back to Germany ASAP.

Y'know, maybe I should've asked their "reasoning" for the police thing.
The police themselves said the same, they'd be back to catch me if I left.
My issue is, I can't trust their word of course, as they aren't on their side.
It could be an empty threat, but I wouldn't know, because I have no legal advice/advocate available to me.
But if they actually do that, I'd be screwed, because presumably, I'd be stuck in worse conditions even longer, missing this current chance I at least have to ctb.

Yes. Of course. Fire away.

I'm guessing you're a UK resident?
I don't fully remember what I wanted to ask you unfortunately. Shoulda written it down, sorry.
Would it be okay I maybe DM you when I remember?
I think one of the things I wanted to ask was, under what pretense did they take you away?
I was simply walking there at night.
And how come they let you go so easily?
They've been super strict with any of my offers to leave, despite the fact I haven't hurt myself or tried to flee in the face of minimal supervision.



Oh, some good news btw:
I think I've figured out how to put enough pressure on the left carotid now, with clothing firmly in place. (no windpipe compression, no breathing difficulties)
Already have found the location of both consistently.
Now just have to figure out how to simultaneously manage to apply the same to the right one with something stuck firmly in place.
Also have access to diazepam for attempts.

 

[claraisnotcarol]

Y'know, maybe I should've asked their "reasoning" for the police thing.
The police themselves said the same, they'd be back to catch me if I

try to ask them. emphasize how are you suppose to be "free to leave" if they are gonna catch you after. I hope they are not just trying to scare you, that would be a really asshole move

 

[Tesha]

They sound like they're potentially not complying with the legal requirements.

Tell them you're leaving. Tell them if they genuinely feel the need detain you then they have to do a section 4 or a section 5(2) for Doctors or 5(4) for Nurses before you leave. If they don't do that, then you're free to leave. They won't send the police after you as they will have admitted they do not deem you detainable.

This will not result in you getting a longer or worse detainment, they're not allowed to do that.

Is there anything else you recall that might affect why you're still there - because to be honest if you want to leave, it sounds like you can. If you don't want to leave, that's ok too.

 

[LonelyKitten]

try to ask them. emphasize how are you suppose to be "free to leave" if they are gonna catch you after. I hope they are not just trying to scare you, that would be a really asshole move

This is what I'm trying to figure out.
Is it just a scare tactic? Or is it real that they'll call the police?

Once I'm inside a ward, the Section 2 will actually start.
Before then, I'm technically in a legal grey area.
I wish I could ask the independent advocate about this... which I still have been denied access to.

They sound like they're potentially not complying with the legal requirements.

Are you sure about this?
Basically it's Section 136 from chaplains into police -> 2 doctors and 2 social workers assessed me and spoke out a Section 2.
I explained more here.

I got sectioned. Scared

Well guess who's not the brightest bulb. I got myself sectioned. 136. You see, I'm terrible at lying, because it feels inherently wrong to me. With police specifically I worry it can be a crime. And tbh I'm really lonely atm so I'm all vulnerable to the comforting speak. I really want to...

sanctioned-suicide.net

For now, I've got this in mind:
1) I'm gonna try to night-night tonight, again.
2) I'll try to get in contact with the health advocate. Depending on that, I may simply leave. They have admitted that they cannot stop me from leaving, but said they would call the police to bring me back.
3) If I'm still alive by the time a bed does actually open up, I think I'll take my scalpel and try to slash my arteries as a last resort.
I can bring it into the bathroom.

They've been going more and more mask off and cold. I try to converse with them, but they just don't listen. As if I wasn't a real person. God I hate medical professionals. What a disgustingly cold occupation.


More info: The advocacy they gave me after almost a week of asking is not responsible for this section, referred me to a different one.
That one is too busy to call, I did get through 2 days ago and they said they'd call back within 48 hours, but didn't.
It's a joke. You don't have rights. They barely even pretend you do. They literally admitted I'll be at risk of abuse. I overheard a mental health nurse speak about how prison-like the ward is.
I just don't want to live a victim like this.
Please just let me die in peace... I don't wanna go back to prison.

 

[Tesha]

Are you sure about this?
Basically it's Section 136 from chaplains into police -> 2 doctors and 2 social workers assessed me and spoke out a Section 2.
I explained more here.

You've either been detained and admitted, so must have a named treating Doctor (which you said you don't), or you've not been detained or admitted. It's actually quite black and white.

If you do what I've suggested in several posts above you will know your position. If not detained and they won't do a section 4, 5(2) or 5(4) to keep you, then you are free to leave without police involvement.

Why do you want to harm yourself while you're still there without fully establishing if you can just leave? As I said before, it's ok if you need to stay for whatever reason, but don't make it worse for yourself if you still have options.

 

[claraisnotcarol]

I also suggest the option of trying to leave first! again, I'm not a pro lifer by any means, I just don't want things to get worst for you. I'd try to leave first by any way possible, maybe they are actually trying to scare you.

 

[LonelyKitten]

Why do you want to harm yourself while you're still there without fully establishing if you can just leave? As I said before, it's ok if you need to stay for whatever reason, but don't make it worse for yourself if you still have options.

Well, my thought process is as follows:
I want to avoid the imprisonment at *all* costs, even my life.
It's my biggest trauma to be locked in a mental ward.
I'm not looking to self-harm, I'm looking to die, if I can't leave.
Death is a guaranteed, 100 % escape, you see?
On that note... I managed to yoink my aspirin back, so I could take all of those and go for scalpel method if night-night keeps failing.

I've been sifting through a lot to establish whether I can leave.
I'm confused on your reasoning a little.
S136 has expired, but S2 was pronounced.
Grey area now, no specific legal ground to actually keep holding me.
Every push from my end toward re-assessment or independent advocate has been denied.
I asked today about an assigned doctor (there is none), and leaving.
Said to me I can technically leave but police would be called, and everything would take longer.
I saw them say the same to someone else just now, who clearly seems to be in mental distress herself.

Wouldn't they just pronounce that other Section given these factors?
I guess it would make sense to force their hand, though I'm afraid if I do that I'll be treated worse.

How is this:
-I'll try to contact the independent advocate one more time tomorrow. If that seems fruitless:
-I could say I am formally leaving as they currently have no power to hold me.
I am taking my stuff and orderly walking out the door.
I am going back to the airport to fly back to Germany.
Perhaps this would, if they called police, force a new S136 and then a new assessment?
Or force their hand to use one of the two Sections you just mentioned.

Hm, it's about calling a bluff in the end, isn't it?

Edit: I just saw the other woman leave straight out the door! This is interesting - if I don't see her back, that'd be a good indicator.

 

[LonelyKitten]

Sorry for double post.

I guess this is kind of a log of Sectioning experience at this point.

The situation developed like this:
I called Mind helpline. Said to check if I was formally under Section. I am not, because 136 expired and Section 2 didn't start formally.

Hospital threatened, as they constantly did before, to call the police if I left.
That the police would take me back.
I informed them I am leaving and started to go.
2 security guards and a Matron followed me outside, physically trying to stop me from leaving.
I kept informing them they can't detain me.
They only stopped physically blocking me once I picked up my phone to call a legal helpline.

I told the helpline what was up, they referred me to CQC.
So I called CQC (Care Quality Commission) to make a complaint.
Now I ultimately left in spite of the threat.

I don't know if the police thing was hot air or not, so I'm kinda scared.
Maybe I rush back to the airport to leave/appear as I am leaving (would that have them let me go if the police found me? Would they just not care no matter what I do and take me back anyway?).
It'd be nice not to have my vacation wasted by this, I could in theory just go around whereever now.
But maybe I have to use this freedom to ctb now.
I just don't wanna go to a ward no matter what.


edit: For anyone curious (honestly, even I myself don't care anymore. This is all just dragging on pointlessly and I want it to end at this point)
Yeah the police ended up picking me up.
Gave me three options:
1) They believe I'd not hurt myself and let me go (not applicable, this was non-negotiable in my case)
2) They take me back to the hospital and raise some complaints for me
(which just resulted in speaking to some mental health nurses for the 20th time. I'm not getting a re-assessment or appeal)
3) They Section 136 me again to force me back into the hospital.
I took option 2 so I can go back to my private room.
Police said they flagged and informed transit organizations, had multiple patrols out as I was deemed a "high-risk missing person".
Said had I made it to the airport, I would not have been allowed to board a plane.
Police also said I would not have even been allowed to take a train to the airport in the first place.
If I leave again, police come again.

They went mask off and told me the truth, both the police and the Matron:
"Oh you have to understand if you died *I* could go to prison, think about how it couls affect *my* life"
What about mine?
Why do *I* have to live in prison for *your* sake?

So yeah, I'm done with this.
There is no way to avoid the ward.
And because going to the ward is non-negotiable, I just have to find it in me to kill myself.
Don't know what else there is to say.
It's all on me now.
Same as it always was in Europe.
Survive alone, learn alone, and now die alone.

Thank you all for having kept me company.

 

[vitbar]

I'm sorry you are being put through all this.

Have you been back in contact with Mind?

 

[LonelyKitten]

I'm sorry you are being put through all this.

Have you been back in contact with Mind?

GOOD news!

I am free??? (Section 136/Section 2/Beachy Head)

Holy jesus. I have been released?? I want to post about my experience as it relates to Sectioning and Beachy Head, so it may contain useful information for folks having to deal with those things in the UK. Here's the other threads...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Thank you all

 

[Oncologynurz123]

Following your story, Kitten. So sorry you seem really stuck. I'm facing jail here in the US for alcoholism and dwi. Trying to figure out how to cbt before I lose all my freedoms. Only giving you this background so hopefully you can know I certainly empathize with how you're feeling. :( please keep us posted.