Pro- lifers are harmful entities.

[The anhedonic one]

I regard pro-lifers as emotional bullies.
They try and force their unwanted and useless opinions upon those of us who are suffering with no regard for our feelings whatsoever.
This unwanted, and unwarranted attention causes nothing but emotional distress to someone who is already in a great deal of turmoil.
These people are actually sadistic in my own personal opinion. Because they know all too well how much we despise them with their goody 2 shoes, do-gooder platitudes.
I wonder how many people have actually CTB because of these people and their emotional bullying.
These pro-lifers need to wake the fuck up and acknowledge that all they are doing is of no benefit whatsoever.
In fact, all they do is harm.

 

[noxu77]

I feel like they genuinely try to do good. However, I believe people should explain to them how they feel, because it seems like they don't understand that pain is a personal experience. To assume everyone would understand is naïve - the world can just be cruel like that. So, I think people should strive to become more informative . When I first joined the forum, I was pro-life. But, after some time and thought, I came to the realization that I'm not pro-life; I'm pro-choice. you can want to ctb but you don't need to be negative .

 

[The anhedonic one]

I feel like they genuinely try to do good. However, I believe people should explain to them how they feel, because it seems like they don't understand that pain is a personal experience. To assume everyone would understand is naïve - the world can just be cruel like that. So, I think people should strive to become more informative . When I first joined the forum, I was pro-life. But, after some time and thought, I came to the realization that I'm not pro-life; I'm pro-choice. you can want to ctb but you don't need to be negative .

Who doesn't need to be negative, and in what context ?

 

[noxu77]

Who doesn't need to be negative, and in what context ?

Most people on the forum speak very hatefully, which can be understandable, but hate doesn't solve problems. Regarding the context around CTB (choosing to die by suicide), it's not my personal belief, but if we want CTB to have a positive connotation, we need to demonstrate that it's not about harboring negative individuals. We should strive to make it understandable to the masses and not keep it confined to ourselves. Let people understand what it truly means, as it will foster greater understanding and reduce overall hatred

 

[MeltingBrain]

I always use the caveat "Some" or "Many" . Not all pro-lifers are like how you describe them . There are some pro-lifers on twitter who threaten, misrepresent and harass people on here. Anybody who says something contrary to their beliefs suddenly was never suicidal and is a predator . I just hope it doesn't get to the mods of this site (who are often a target) who themselves are suicidal.

 

[The anhedonic one]

Telling a suicidal person to think happy thoughts etc, is like telling a person with no legs to go and climb a mountain.
These pro-lifers are not in touch with reality.

 

[FuneralCry]

Those types of people repulse me, they are just blinded by their privileges and delusions, I bet it would be different if something happened to make their existence much more unbearable. But anyway no matter what they say suicide is always a valid and logical option in such a hellish world, it's truly disgusting to wish to make someone a prisoner to this existence until they inevitably cease existing anyway.

 

[noxu77]

Telling a suicidal person to think happy thoughts etc, is like telling a person with no legs to go and climb a mountain.
These pro-lifers are not in touch with reality.

I'm advocating for positivity, and it appears there may be some confusion. Positivity and happiness are not the same thing. Positivity typically involves an optimistic outlook, focusing on the good in any given situation and appreciating relief from pain as a liberating experience. On the other hand, happiness is an emotional state that frequently fluctuates. I'm not necessarily asking anyone to be happy, but I am encouraging a more positive outlook.

To the person who's playing 'white knight', I want to clarify that I'm not opposing anyone's views. If you believe your perspective is logical, then fair enough. However, I must say, the outlook seems rather bleak. If the goal is to normalize this topic and encourage more open conversation, then we must strive to help people understand what it is, the benefits it offers, and why it matters, not just post random, obscure sentiments that may come across as glorifying negative behaviors or states of mind.

Given your tenure on this forum, I would have expected you to be aware of this

 

[AsleepPreference160]

We should strive to make it understandable to the masses and not keep it confined to ourselves. Let people understand what it truly means, as it will foster greater understanding and reduce overall hatred

You're making it sound easy. Whoever will try to make people understand that suicide can, in some cases be the only good choice, will get demonized. It's almost like trying to convince someone that pedophilia is okay.

I used to be a pro-lifer because I had no idea about the depth of suffering that suicidal people can have. I didn't become a pro-choice until I actually came to a point where I wanted to die. I don't know of anyone yet who is pro-choice and has never felt suicidal even once in their lives.

Not a high percentage of people feel suicidal at least once in their lives. A far lower percentage are suicidal because of permanent issues, not just depression alone. These people are almost always pro-choice. Let's consider the ones who want to die mainly because of depression. Now, some recover fairly quickly, say 3 months - 1 year. These people are 95% of the time pro-lifers, because they think it's going to be the same for everybody, and they don't understand what it feels like when the recovery takes a pretty long time to happen. Then consider the ones who took a lot of time, say 2 - 10 years. Some of these guys think that everyone else should tough it out and that it will be worth the wait, but they don't respect the fact that some people don't want to suffer for that long. Some of them do become pro-choice though. And then there's the people just don't recover no matter the efforts. Most of them are pro-choice.

So I think it's pretty obvious that pro-lifers will always outnumber pro-choicers, even if there is a depression pandemic. and as long as they do, suicide will not be seen as acceptable in society. The situation is way too fucked up.

 

[noxu77]

You're making it sound easy. Whoever will try to make people understand that suicide can, in some cases be the only good choice, will get demonized. It's almost like trying to convince someone that pedophilia is okay.

I used to be a pro-lifer because I had no idea about the depth of suffering that suicidal people can have. I didn't become a pro-choice until I actually came to a point where I wanted to die. I don't know of anyone yet who is pro-choice and has never felt suicidal even once in their lives.

Not a high percentage of people feel suicidal at least once in their lives. A far lower percentage are suicidal because of permanent issues, not just depression alone. These people are almost always pro-choice. Let's consider the ones who want to die mainly because of depression. Now, some recover fairly quickly, say 3 months - 1 year. These people are 95% of the time pro-lifers, because they think it's going to be the same for everybody, and they don't understand what it feels like when the recovery takes a pretty long time to happen. Then consider the ones who took a lot of time, say 2 - 10 years. Some of these guys think that everyone else should tough it out and that it will be worth the wait, but they don't respect the fact that some people don't want to suffer for that long. Some of them do become pro-choice though. And then there's the people just don't recover no matter the efforts. Most of them are pro-choice.

So I think it's pretty obvious that pro-lifers will always outnumber pro-choicers, even if there is a depression pandemic. and as long as they do, suicide will not be seen as acceptable in society. The situation is way too fucked up.

Comparing pedophilia to depression is a bold move. I want to clarify that I do understand people's suffering; I truly wish them the best in whichever options they choose and I never said it was going to be easy . However, the pervasive stigma around depression is quite severe. Consider those who don't speak up due to the negative connotations associated with this condition. While the idea of losing life does conflict with natural instincts and societal norms, it's essential to understand that depression represents a minority in the genetic variation of humans, particularly concerning their perception Therefore, we should be informing people that ctb is just a natural choice is not something to be ashamed of but a choice, if addressed properly, can lead to a relief from suffering. Of course, depression is a complex issue, but I believe that the general population would not oppose the idea of terminally suffering individuals choosing their fate.

 

[Valky]

You're making it sound easy. Whoever will try to make people understand that suicide can, in some cases be the only good choice, will get demonized. It's almost like trying to convince someone that pedophilia is okay.

I used to be a pro-lifer because I had no idea about the depth of suffering that suicidal people can have. I didn't become a pro-choice until I actually came to a point where I wanted to die. I don't know of anyone yet who is pro-choice and has never felt suicidal even once in their lives.

Not a high percentage of people feel suicidal at least once in their lives. A far lower percentage are suicidal because of permanent issues, not just depression alone. These people are almost always pro-choice. Let's consider the ones who want to die mainly because of depression. Now, some recover fairly quickly, say 3 months - 1 year. These people are 95% of the time pro-lifers, because they think it's going to be the same for everybody, and they don't understand what it feels like when the recovery takes a pretty long time to happen. Then consider the ones who took a lot of time, say 2 - 10 years. Some of these guys think that everyone else should tough it out and that it will be worth the wait, but they don't respect the fact that some people don't want to suffer for that long. Some of them do become pro-choice though. And then there's the people just don't recover no matter the efforts. Most of them are pro-choice.

So I think it's pretty obvious that pro-lifers will always outnumber pro-choicers, even if there is a depression pandemic. and as long as they do, suicide will not be seen as acceptable in society. The situation is way too fucked up.

Very well said :)

 

[MeltingBrain]

I'm advocating for positivity, and it appears there may be some confusion. Positivity and happiness are not the same thing. Positivity typically involves an optimistic outlook, focusing on the good in any given situation and appreciating relief from pain as a liberating experience.

Your take on positivity is correct to the extent that you can do something about your situation (financial, relationship and minor medical issues). However when people with chronic , unbearable mental and physical issues are told "It gets better" , "Look at the bright side" , it is toxic positivity which drives the victim even madder . These people need real solutions not lip service .

 

[Valky]

Comparing pedophilia to depression is a bold move. I want to clarify that I do understand people's suffering; I truly wish them the best in whichever options they choose and I never said it was going to be easy . However, the pervasive stigma around depression is quite severe. Consider those who don't speak up due to the negative connotations associated with this condition. While the idea of losing life does conflict with natural instincts and societal norms, it's essential to understand that depression represents a minority in the genetic variation of humans, particularly concerning their perception Therefore, we should be informing people that ctb is just a natural choice is not something to be ashamed of but a choice, if addressed properly, can lead to a relief from suffering. Of course, depression is a complex issue, but I believe that the general population would not oppose the idea of terminally suffering individuals choosing their fate.

You think we haven't tried explaining it to those individuals? You think there aren't already lots of campaigns advocating for the right to die at ones chosen moment?

We are not the reason people are too afraid to speak up. The reason is that they are either getting their emotions invalidated, misunderstood or straight out hospitalised and mistreated against their will. If you feel unwell why would you care about the stigma created by pro lifers?

For them, depression doesn't count as 'terminally ill'. In fact, no mental illness does.

I think you are on the wrong site here, buddy.

 

[noxu77]

You think we haven't tried explaining it to those individuals? You think there aren't already lots of campaigns advocating for the right to die at ones chosen moment?

We are not the reason people are too afraid to speak up. The reason is that they are either getting their emotions invalidated, misunderstood or straight out hospitalised and mistreated against their will. If you feel unwell why would you care about the stigma created by pro lifers?

For them, depression doesn't count as 'terminally ill'. In fact, no mental illness does.

I think you are on the wrong site here, buddy.

I absolutely recognize the efforts made by many to advocate for the right to die at a chosen moment. I didn't mean to imply that these efforts do not exist or are ineffective. The stigma I'm talking about is a societal issue, not something created by individuals who are suffering. And yes, you're correct, many individuals fear speaking up because of the risk of being invalidated, misunderstood, or even hospitalized against their will. This is a serious issue that needs addressing, which is part of what I was discussing. My point about 'terminally suffering individuals' was meant to refer to those with chronic and unbearable mental and physical illnesses, including severe depression. I understand that current definitions of terminal illness do not include mental illnesses.

Your take on positivity is correct to the extent that you can do something about your situation (financial, relationship and minor medical issues). However when people with chronic , unbearable mental and physical issues are told "It gets better" , "Look at the bright side" , it is toxic positivity which drives the victim even madder . These people need real solutions not lip service .

Thank you for the reply! I absolutely understand where you're coming from. You're correct to point out that, for people with chronic and severe health issues, simple reassurances like "It gets better" or "Look on the bright side" may feel dismissive or insufficient. I don't mean to suggest that positivity alone can resolve these profound problems. It's essential to pursue tangible solutions. Positivity doesn't deny the existence of pain or difficulty. Instead, it can provide a measure of understanding, especially for those unfamiliar with the subject. After all, we are all humans.

 

[Valky]

I am not here to fight with anyone, and I never said you were the reason. When I was talking about it, I meant that places like this are a contributing factor

Then why are you here?

 

[noxu77]

Then why are you here?

I changed my initial response because it was hasty; I apologize for that. However, in response to the comment you made at that time, I want to clarify that I'm here not only to help people in recovery but also to understand more about depression. You treat me as if I'm an alien, as if I'm going to threaten the forum. I'm simply seeking to comprehend what depression truly is from the perspective of others, and trying to understand why they think the way they do.

 

[AsleepPreference160]

Comparing pedophilia to depression is a bold move. I want to clarify that I do understand people's suffering; I truly wish them the best in whichever options they choose and I never said it was going to be easy . However, the pervasive stigma around depression is quite severe. Consider those who don't speak up due to the negative connotations associated with this condition. While the idea of losing life does conflict with natural instincts and societal norms, it's essential to understand that depression represents a minority in the genetic variation of humans, particularly concerning their perception Therefore, we should be informing people that ctb is just a natural choice is not something to be ashamed of but a choice, if addressed properly, can lead to a relief from suffering. Of course, depression is a complex issue, but I believe that the general population would not oppose the idea of terminally suffering individuals choosing their fate.

I didn't compare pedophilia to depression, I compared it to suicide. I know you understand their suffering, considering that you're pro-choice. You're correct that there are people who don't speak up due to the negative connotations about depression, but how is this site contributing to that? If anything, this site probably helps them with the recovery section, where you can talk with like-minded people without any risk of involuntary hospitalisation. Like I said, informing people about suicide is not nearly as easy as it looks. If you don't agree, I challenge you to convince a pro-lifer that suicide can sometimes be a good choice. I'm pretty sure the general population is always against suicide no matter what, due to reasons I mentioned in my previous post. I don't think they would welcome the idea of suicide.

 

[Valky]

I changed my initial response because it was hasty; I apologize for that. However, in response to the comment you made at that time, I want to clarify that I'm here not only to help people in recovery but also to understand more about depression. You treat me as if I'm an alien, as if I'm going to threaten the forum. I'm simply seeking to comprehend what depression truly is from the perspective of others, and trying to understand why they think the way they do.

That is not true. In fact, I have been like you when I joined this forum. I got banned for being selfish and ignorant on the first day.

I understand your goals as I had and have similar intentions and there really is a lot to learn here. But you should also be careful about your words and understand in what kind of topic you are. Just like you don't wanna offer support to ctb in the Recovery Section, should you not give toxic positivity in the suicide one. People choose this one for a reason. Let them rant and if you disagree then it is not the place to argue here.

We speak from experience. Don't assume anything on here.

I appreciate your efforts but it is important to stay in your lane. To protect yourself and others on here.

I am sorry to say this but being told and experiencing mental illness on others will never be the same as dealing with it yourself.
So please don't tell people what to do and how to live their life when you never had to experience it yourself.
It will always be so much easier to judge from outside.
We are not on here to be studied but to be understood.

 

[noxu77]

I didn't compare pedophilia to depression, I compared it to suicide. I know you understand their suffering, considering that you're pro-choice. You're correct that there are people who don't speak up due to the negative connotations about depression, but how is this site contributing to that? If anything, this site probably helps them with the recovery section, where you can talk with like-minded people without any risk of involuntary hospitalisation. Like I said, informing people about suicide is not nearly as easy as it looks. If you don't agree, I challenge you to convince a pro-lifer that suicide can sometimes be a good choice. I'm pretty sure the general population is always against suicide no matter what, due to reasons I mentioned in my previous post. I don't think they would welcome the idea of suicide.

My bad I misunderstood ,I agree this issue is complex and must be approached with care. I didn't mean to suggest the conversation around suicide is simple. I believe in the power of open dialogue, despite the challenges, as a means to reduce stigma and misunderstanding. The safe space this platform provides is indeed valuable. i never said it wasn't. thank you again

That is not true. In fact, I have been like you when I joined this forum. I got banned for being selfish and ignorant on the first day.

I understand your goals as I had and have similar intentions and there really is a lot to learn here. But you should also be careful about your words and understand in what kind of topic you are. Just like you don't wanna offer support to ctb in the Recovery Section, should you not give toxic positivity in the suicide one. People choose this one for a reason. Let them rant and if you disagree then it is not the place to argue here.

We speak from experience. Don't assume anything on here.

I appreciate your efforts but it is important to stay in your lane. To protect yourself and others on here.

I am sorry to say this but being told and experiencing mental illness on others will never be the same as dealing with it yourself.
So please don't tell people what to do and how to live their life when you never had to experience it yourself.
It will always be so much easier to judge from outside.
We are not on here to be studied but to be understood.

Hold on, I never forced anyone to do anything; I merely made suggestions. When I offer help, I don't impose it; it's an offer. When you say 'that's not true,' I'm not sure what you're referring to. I have already helped some people on this forum and that encourages me to continue offering support. Please, take a look at all my posts. I always frame my advice as a suggestion or a request, and people are well within their rights to decline and you assume I haven't gone through mental illness?.

 

[AsleepPreference160]

My bad I misunderstood ,I agree this issue is complex and must be approached with care. I didn't mean to suggest the conversation around suicide is simple. I believe in the power of open dialogue, despite the challenges, as a means to reduce stigma and misunderstanding. The safe space this platform provides is indeed valuable. i never said it wasn't. thank you again

Can you elaborate what you meant by "open dialogue"? If you meant public campaign stuff, well those things do exist and they don't seem to be successful, at least not yet, and I'm not sure they will ever succeed...

 

[The anhedonic one]

My bad I misunderstood ,I agree this issue is complex and must be approached with care. I didn't mean to suggest the conversation around suicide is simple. I believe in the power of open dialogue, despite the challenges, as a means to reduce stigma and misunderstanding. The safe space this platform provides is indeed valuable. i never said it wasn't. thank you again

Hold on, I never forced anyone to do anything; I merely made suggestions. When I offer help, I don't impose it; it's an offer. When you say 'that's not true,' I'm not sure what you're referring to. I have already helped some people on this forum and that encourages me to continue offering support. Please, take a look at all my posts. I always frame my advice as a suggestion or a request, and people are well within their rights to decline.

What the fuck are you doing on this site excacly ?
Do you actually suffer from a mental illness ?
Have you been dreadfully abused ?
Do you suffer from very deep existential dread ?
Are you, or have you ever felt actively suicidal ?
All you have done so far is talk a load of meaningless nonsense.
You have obviously never walked in the shoes of a suicidal person, and felt the inexplicable and enormous pain they have to endure on a daily basis.
If you had, then you wouldn't be here spewing your goody 2 shoes verbal diarrhoea.

 

[Valky]

Hold on, I never forced anyone to do anything; I merely made suggestions. When I offer help, I don't impose it; it's an offer. When you say 'that's not true,' I'm not sure what you're referring to. I have already helped some people on this forum and that encourages me to continue offering support. Please, take a look at all my posts. I always frame my advice as a suggestion or a request, and people are well within their rights to decline and you assume I haven't gone through mental illness?.

By coming onto this thread and invading the safe space of someone who wants to rant you are not making suggestions or something similar. I have seen your posts and honestly just skipped them because they are full of pro-life bs that no one wants to listen to.

Offer support where it is welcomed and needed and not everywhere else.

'That's not true' as in I don't see you as an alien. I understand your motives but you're doing quite the opposite of helping right here, right now.

You talked about witnessing the experience of your friends struggling not yourself. This is a SUICIDE forum and if you can't accept that then leave!!

 

[noxu77]

By coming onto this thread and invading the safe space of someone who wants to rant you are not making suggestions or something similar. I have seen your posts and honestly just skipped them because they are full of pro-life bs that no one wants to listen to.

Offer support where it is welcomed and needed and not everywhere else.

'That's not true' as in I don't see you as an alien. I understand your motives but you're doing quite the opposite of helping right here, right now.

You talked about witnessing the experience of your friends struggling not yourself. This is a SUICIDE forum and if you can't accept that then leave!!

All I said was" I absolutely recognize the efforts made by many to advocate for the right to die at a chosen moment. I didn't mean to imply that these efforts do not exist or are ineffective. The stigma I'm talking about is a societal issue, not something created by individuals who are suffering. And yes, you're correct, many individuals fear speaking up because of the risk of being invalidated, misunderstood, or even hospitalized against their will. This is a serious issue that needs addressing, which is part of what I was discussing. My point about 'terminally suffering individuals' was meant to refer to those with chronic and unbearable mental and physical illnesses, including severe depression. I understand that current definitions of terminal illness do not include mental illnesse" i dont know why its been blow out of proportion

 

[Valky]

All I said was" I absolutely recognize the efforts made by many to advocate for the right to die at a chosen moment. I didn't mean to imply that these efforts do not exist or are ineffective. The stigma I'm talking about is a societal issue, not something created by individuals who are suffering. And yes, you're correct, many individuals fear speaking up because of the risk of being invalidated, misunderstood, or even hospitalized against their will. This is a serious issue that needs addressing, which is part of what I was discussing. My point about 'terminally suffering individuals' was meant to refer to those with chronic and unbearable mental and physical illnesses, including severe depression. I understand that current definitions of terminal illness do not include mental illnesse" i dont know why its been blow out of proportion

You blew it out of proportion by coming onto this thread and sharing your 'opinion'. Read the room dude, this is not the place to discuss what you think about this site or not.

 

[noxu77]

What the fuck are you doing on this site excacly ?
Do you actually suffer from a mental illness ?
Have you been dreadfully abused ?
Do you suffer from very deep existential dread ?
Are you, or have you ever felt actively suicidal ?
All you have done so far is talk a load of meaningless nonsense.
You have obviously never walked in the shoes of a suicidal person, and felt the inexplicable and enormous pain they have to endure on a daily basis.
If you had, then you wouldn't be here spewing your goody 2 shoes verbal diarrhoea.

For those who advise against making assumptions, I notice that many on this site tend to make assumptions about people they don't like. I want to clarify that I have suffered from mental illness and have been abused in the past. I don't suffer from deep existential dread. To answer your question about whether I've ever felt actively suicidal: no, not currently, but I have tried to 'ctb' before.

 

[Valky]

For those who advise against making assumptions, I notice that many on this site tend to make assumptions about people they don't like. I want to clarify that I have suffered from mental illness and have been abused in the past. I don't suffer from deep existential dread. To answer your question about whether I've ever felt actively suicidal: no, not currently, but I have tried to 'ctb' before.

lol, where did you copy that one from?

If you never felt suicidal, why did you try to ctb before?

 

[noxu77]

lol, where did you copy that one from?

If you never felt suicidal, why did you try to ctb before?

I don't understand what I did wrong. Was my message not clear enough? I said I have and I tried before I just learned to cope with it which is a luxury not many get which I understand .oh i replied to the wrong person

 

[Valky]

I posted that before anyone came onto this page. My intention was simply to compare ideologies, and I might have misunderstood. However, I noticed that people often mention when they are ranting in their messages. I don't understand why it is perceived as a negative thing to engage with different viewpoints and seek a deeper understanding of the topic through comparing ideologies. I genuinely want to understand, and I feel like I am being unfairly criticized and vilified. Please, could you guide me on how I can learn more and gain a better understanding of this?

I think you don't know what kind of impact those pro lifers had on this site and especially the people on here. You simply don't know what is happening or you wouldn't be so quick to judge.

Again, coming on here assuming we are the bad people and they are the ones that have just been left out is not true.

That is why I said not to comment on something you clearly have no idea of.

This is obviously a rant……I am sorry if you fail to see that but that is what it is.

 

[noxu77]

What the fuck are you doing on this site excacly ?
Do you actually suffer from a mental illness ?
Have you been dreadfully abused ?
Do you suffer from very deep existential dread ?
Are you, or have you ever felt actively suicidal ?
All you have done so far is talk a load of meaningless nonsense.
You have obviously never walked in the shoes of a suicidal person, and felt the inexplicable and enormous pain they have to endure on a daily basis.
If you had, then you wouldn't be here spewing your goody 2 shoes verbal diarrhoea.

I posted that before anyone came onto this page. My intention was simply to compare ideologies, and I might have misunderstood. However, I noticed that people often mention when they are ranting in their messages. I don't understand why it is perceived as a negative thing to engage with different viewpoints and seek a deeper understanding of the topic through comparing ideologies. I genuinely want to understand, and I feel like I am being unfairly criticized and vilified. Please, could you guide me on how I can learn more and gain a better understanding of this?

I think you don't know what kind of impact those pro lifers had on this site and especially the people on here. You simply don't know what is happening or you wouldn't be so quick to judge.

Again, coming on here assuming we are the bad people and they are the ones that have just been left out is not true.

That is why I said not to comment on something you clearly have no idea of.

This is obviously a rant……I am sorry if you fail to see that but that is what it is.

I never called anyone bad. Why do you keep assuming that I did? You are putting words in my mouth. Just because I mentioned that some people speak in a hateful manner does not necessarily mean I believe they are all inherently bad as individuals. In any case, I don't want to argue anymore, as it seems this conversation is turning into a blame game. I will stop from further replies on this thread. I apologize for any misunderstanding, as I initially thought this was an open discussion rather than a rant thread.

 

[Valky]

I never called anyone bad. Why do you keep assuming that I did? You are putting words in my mouth. Just because I mentioned that some people speak in a hateful manner does not necessarily mean I believe they are all inherently bad as individuals. In any case, I don't want to argue anymore, as it seems this conversation is turning into a blame game. I will stop from further replies on this thread. I apologize for any misunderstanding, as I initially thought this was an open discussion rather than a rant thread.

By protecting the pro lifers. Again. You speak on a topic you seem to have no clue off. Of course there are many reasonable pro lifers but these are not the ones talked about here.

It is an open discussion. But joining in with no background information is pretty insensitive.