The anhedonic one

The anhedonic one

Dead inside
May 20, 2023
1,070
I
For those who advise against making assumptions, I notice that many on this site tend to make assumptions about people they don't like. I want to clarify that I have suffered from mental illness and have been abused in the past. I don't suffer from deep existential dread. To answer your question about whether I've ever felt actively suicidal: no, not currently, but I have tried to 'ctb' before.
I don't believe you. Not one bit.
You are not who you are pretending to be.
I can see right through your mind games.
As I have said before: If you were the real deal, as in someone who actually NEEDS to be here, because it is the only place for people like us who need support from fellow sufferers, then you wouldn't be wasting time talking shit.
I'm putting you on ignore now, because I have genuine people to communicate with.
Goodbye and good riddance.
 
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EmpathyMinded

EmpathyMinded

Student
May 1, 2023
144
I think pro-lifers, as with any group of people regardless of what we are categorizing them based on, are a spectrum. Some do sincerely want to help, I've no doubt, but are inadvertently projecting the personal experiences they've had and the morals they've been imbued with into others' situations, not accounting for how others own different experiences makes "what they know" about being able to ride out the storm not as universally applicable as they want to wish it would be. It is easier to continue saying "I'm right, they just need to broaden their perspective" than accept looking at things differently is difficult or impossible if you live every day in chronic pain, or are a girl being sexually assaulted by multiple family members with no support network to escape from that. In their case, their heart I do think is in the right place, but their ability to empathize is limited in ways they are too ignorant to realize.

On the other end, and far too many fall here I'm afraid, are those for whom the whole project of "helping others" is a thinly disguised attempt at self-validation. They want their will to be what is acted on, their point of view to be validated. The person they are speaking to's struggles are of secondary concern to seeing their own worldview respected. Fairly easy to spot for two reasons.

One, the advice is always very generic and broad, rather than based on any attempt at a deeper exploration of the struggling person's situation and attempt to find out more about and speak to their specific circumstances. People struggling with depression on the level to consider CTB aren't acting out someone else's script, they are living their life, so going off that script is something divorced from any acknowledgment of their actual reality and will always fundamentally fail accordingly.

Two, when "success" has been achieved in the struggling person is calling a help line or going to an institution and so on, the person "helping" is gone from the picture and the person who is struggling has lost support they had trusted while they are struggling to figure out how to make it or if they even want to. And the reasoning is obvious: the "helper" gave up because there was no personal connection or genuine empathy. It was always about validating themselves rather than helping the person in pain. When they've gotten their win, what's to stick around for? Essentially it makes what is happening is these people exploiting suicidal people for personal gain and it fucking disgusts me. Anyone considering CTB has enough to contend with without you using them as a pawn in your game of self-gratification.

All of that is why I couldn't be pro-life. If you want to live and you have perspective you want to offer for someone who is on the fence about what they are considering, then that is one thing. It being a perspective for them to take if they want - not forced on them - coupled with an actual effort to understand their struggles, respect those struggles and respect they are feeling pain you are not, and therefore you don't fully "know what they are going through" is the proper way to approach matters. The ironic thing in pro-lifers not doing these things is that I think these things are actually more likely to save lives, because a lot of the people who can find a will to stay living are looking for people to actually care about them and offer support they can't find within themselves in order to find that will. Being there, but leaving it that person's choice to take that support and lean on it if they want to.

When you aren't staying by their side or respecting their autonomy as individuals, it only perpetrates the same notions of being unwanted and insignificant that make someone want to CTB in the first place in so many cases. We can and should do better to support those who are struggling than that. And it isn't even hard to do, you just have to put aside the self and focus on them, the person who actually matters in the situation of pain at the heart of their issues.
 
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Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
8,818
Yeah and I'm so naive- I usually try to engage with them on here. I guess because I don't talk about it in real life- but I like a good debate. I'm interested in people who have different opinions to me and- why they hold those opinions. I suppose I also have this naive hope that I'll be able to make them see life- and death from our point of view. Maybe make them see how insensitive it is to deny other people their right to choose.

Problem is- it often starts off reasonable and considerate- but then, as we both become more and more frustrated with the other person- it just becomes more hostile. As a pattern, we generally move from advice they actually seem to think is new to us and they won't accept it that it doesn't work for everyone. To platitudes- 'All life is precious, everyone is gifted/talented, things will get easier.' But then, it degrades to fear mongering- 'What if you fail your attempt and end up as a vegetable?' 'How are you going to explain this to God?' And- emotional blackmail: 'Think of what this will do to your loved ones.' Or- that you're even dishonouring their memory if you wait for them to go first. (That was a new one on me the other day.)

I really hope I've learnt my lesson now. I'm hoping the next time one appears here and starts trying to 'save' everyone- that I'll just bite my tongue. I have this dumb idea that something good will come out of talking to them but it doesn't. They won't change me- I change when I want/ CHOOSE to. Plus- their thinking is just SO different to ours that- really, I suppose it's never going to work. So- we're not going to change them either. We likely just end up pissing each other off! I need to learn to leave well enough alone.

Rational debate simply can't happen if they won't accept the following we take for granted:

- Suicide is an option in the first place.
- People have the right to make their own decisions in life- even if those decisions seem unwise to others.
- Not everyone CAN or WANTS to 'get better' leading to the above two points...

Yeah- next time, I should just stand back, leave our lovely mods to shift them into the 'Recovery' section and let people who actually want their help to respond to them. Live and learn I suppose.
 
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RainAndSadness

RainAndSadness

Administrator
Jun 12, 2018
2,129
I feel like they genuinely try to do good. However, I believe people should explain to them how they feel, because it seems like they don't understand that pain is a personal experience. To assume everyone would understand is naïve - the world can just be cruel like that. So, I think people should strive to become more informative . When I first joined the forum, I was pro-life. But, after some time and thought, I came to the realization that I'm not pro-life; I'm pro-choice. you can want to ctb but you don't need to be negative .

You're new here so I'll give you a pass. But pro-lifers say the most vile and disgusting shit you could possibly imagine. There is a reason why they don't last long in this forum. They gaslight people, they talk down their struggles, they invalidate their personal autonomy and boundaries, they mock and insult them. I've seen it all in the past 5 years.
 
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