Discussion PARENTS ARE THE PROBLEM

[Jean Améry]

In the sense that without them you wouldn't exist and therefore had no problems at all: absolutely.

For the life of me I do not understand why anyone would want to have children. Least of all those who actually experienced any serious suffering.

The fact remains that no-one can know the fate of those who are born beforehand and to gamble with the well-being of another is downright immoral imo. In so far as one is conscious of the basic elements of the human condition at the very least it shows a callous indifference towards human suffering and betrays a narcissism that is only surpassed by those kill others without any justification at all and without a shred of remorse.

Of course love and sexuality are supremely powerful forces: without them the human race would have died out long ago.

 

[Darkhaven]

Well to be fair, they can't guess that the kid will become fucked up later in life.
I agree with you in cases where it's fairly easy to foresee that things won'tgo well.
But since in most cases people actually enjoy living i think that putting all the blame on the parents is going a bit to far, as long as they don't have any clues that things eventually fuck up. That's only my opinion, ofc.

 

[welshie84]

''Their'' life decision!!! That's the issue actually . It's their decision not ours. And it's not any personal decision. It's literally a ''decision'' thats puts billions into psychological and physical torture.
Thank you, Goodbye.

Sorry, but how old are you ?

I really don't think being someone's child entitles you to act a victim . To be quite Frank
.

 

[CTB-London]

I think this is going rather off piste for a forum about suicide but I'll add my 10 cents worth. I think that more people who have children than not do so with good motives and love their children. I have been lucky enough to have good parents who gave me a stable life but all has gone wrong in spite of that.

 

[woxihuanni]

Well to be fair, they can't guess that the kid will become fucked up later in life.
I agree with you in cases where it's fairly easy to foresee that things won'tgo well.
But since in most cases people actually enjoy living i think that putting all the blame on the parents is going a bit to far, as long as they don't have any clues that things eventually fuck up. That's only my opinion, ofc.

Yeah they know they will fuck up when they tell the kid they are a mistake and beat them. It's sort of not rocket science.

But yeah, sometimes other things than parents fuck us up eventually.

 

[Peaceful_Sam]

Sorry, but how old are you ?

I really don't think being someone's child entitles you to act a victim . To be quite Frank
.

You must learn how to speak with the mind of the person. The age is just a number. It doesn't matter if I'm 10,20,30 or 90years old. Focus on the idea!!
You are probably a mother or father. If yes, then I understand that you are frustrated after reading this post cause It talks about you. If you are not a mother or father then you live in another dimension or something.
And I don't think there is any other question I am going to answer because I repeated some answers more than 10times in different replies.

 

[Darkhaven]

Yeah they know they will fuck up when they tell the kid they are a mistake and beat them. It's sort of not rocket science.

But yeah, sometimes other things than parents fuck us up eventually.

Well if they do that to the kids then it's them fucking the kid up. Ain't no apology for that.
What i meant was that more often than not people really mean good by having kids.
Just think about all these "normal" people who live ordinary lives. The average human being, even with all the adversities of this life, actually enjoys being alive. So why should they abstain from having kids? What hints do they have that their sons or daugthers will have mental health problems?
For example i reckon a person like me should never have kids given my psych problems.
But there is no asking that from a "neurotypical" person, because there is no guessing that their kid will actually be among the 5% (i don't if this is accurate) of people in the world thouroughly looking for a way to kill themselves.

 

[woxihuanni]

Well if they do that to the kids then it's them fucking the kid up. Ain't no apology for that.
What i meant was that more often than not people really mean good by having kids.
Just think about all these "normal" people who live ordinary lives. The average human being, even with all the adversities of this life, actually enjoys being alive. So why should they abstain from having kids? What hints do they have that their sons or daugthers will have mental health problems?
For example i reckon a person like me should never have kids given my psych problems.
But there is no asking that from a "neurotypical" person, because there is no guessing that their kid will actually be among the 5% (i don't if this is accurate) of people in the world thouroughly looking for a way to kill themselves.

Yeah I am not against having kids per se. Just that you should only have them if you are up to the task.

 

[Peaceful_Sam]

Yeah I am not against having kids per se. Just that you should only have them if you are up to the task.

Yeaah have them. Give them a death sentence!

 

[bigj75]

this is the thing if the world was running lIke it should then it would be completely fine to bring children into it but people just don't care.

they always have children at the worst time. a family should be financially, mentally, and physically stable before even considering having a child. people ruining their children's lives just fur the hell of it it seems.

there should be strict regulations before someone is allowed to have kids.

 

[Mailooo]

Obviously this is a very young thread mostly... Giving birth can be certainly a reckless, selfish act... but do you expect? Collective Euthanasia in the long-term?
That Is a biit childish/misanthropic.

In fact we need more reasonable, loving people raising children in this world and not just the worst of the worst begetting more misery every generation.

So though the initial thesis of this thread is kinda cute, and teenage angsty, I must disagree...

 

[woxihuanni]

Yeaah have them. Give them a death sentence!

Nah, I'm not having them. I'm dying.

 

[Peaceful_Sam]

Nah, I'm not having them. I'm dying.

Me too lol

 

[OverItAll]

There is also the massive societal construct that having kids is just what you do - marriage, buy a home, have some kids; isn't that the familial blueprint for a modern civilised society?

But I just want to say, that I'm not bashing anyone who chooses to have kids. My wife and I chose not to, because of the way we saw the world going, and because we're selfish, and because being 100% responsible for a whole other human being's welfare was too much for our puny, emotionally stunted brains to cope with.

Also, there comes a time where you have to let them loose, where you can't protect them any more. And I have just never been able to get my head around that - say I had a daughter; as a man, if she ever got hurt by a guy, or like, raped of something like that, I wouldn't be able to live with myself. I'd be consumed by a deep seething rage. I'd end up in prison for killing the perpetrator.

I admire parents; for having the strength to do it. I'm in awe of a parents ability to put a whole other life before their own. Decent parents anyway. Seriously, it takes a massive amount of courage to do it, certainly more than my weak, cowardly mind could/can muster.

 

[woxihuanni]

I think the angst that says 'let us all die out' comes from a valid place in a way, though I do not share it. The fact is that humans are at the mercy of one other's often malfunctioning brains. It is really sad.

There is also the massive societal construct that having kids is just what you do - marriage, buy a home, have some kids; isn't that the familial blueprint for a modern civilised society?

But I just want to say, that I'm not bashing anyone who chooses to have kids. My wife and I chose not to, because of the way we saw the world going, and because we're selfish, and because being 100% responsible for a whole other human being's welfare was too much for our puny, emotionally stunted brains to cope with.

Also, there comes a time where you have to let them loose, where you can't protect them any more. And I have just never been able to get my head around that - say I had a daughter; as a man, if she ever got hurt by a guy, or like, raped of something like that, I wouldn't be able to live with myself. I'd be consumed by a deep seething rage. I'd end up in prison for killing the perpetrator.

I admire parents; for having the strength to do it. I'm in awe of a parents ability to put a whole other life before their own. Decent parents anyway. Seriously, it takes a massive amount of courage to do it, certainly more than my weak, cowardly mind could/can muster.

To be honest, I do not understand how a parent or partner can NOT feel murderous if such things happened.

 

[OverItAll]

I think the angst that says 'let us all die out' comes from a valid place in a way, though I do not share it. The fact is that humans are at the mercy of one other's often malfunctioning brains. It is really sad.


To be honest, I do not understand how a parent or partner can NOT feel murderous if such things happened.

I think it's because many (most?) people take a philosophical and pragmatic view, i.e shit happens. Harbouring that kind of bitterness, that need to avenge, will eat you up, give you cancer.

People forgive for their own well being rather than for the person who has wronged them.

That said, I would still fucking *end* anyone who seriously hurt a loved one. My deep-seated sense of injustice, the enormous chip on my shoulder, and a massive amount of short-wick anger bubbling just below the surface would surely take control - the red mist would overcome me.

 

[GeorgeJL]

Things are getting better?? How?
I think it's your world view that isn't in line with what's going on, if you think that.

Take it from Steven Pinker one of the world's leading intellectuals.

The surprising decline in violence | Steven Pinker

 

[Bea]

Parents are evil, selfish and they are the source of suffering in this world. They only think about themselves when they give birth to a human being that didn't choose to exist in this hell called world.
This world is full of diseases, mental illnesses, wars, hunger, poverty, unemployment, natural disasters, bullies.. Etc and even though they know all this, they keep giving birth to children.
Giving birth is giving a death sentence.
I hate parents and I think they deserve to suffer!

Not ALL parents deserve to suffer; some of them are amazing. I take this topic quite seriously because both my parents killed themselves and obviously should not have created a child. They had zero idea what they were doing when they fucked one night, drunk as shit I'm sure, and procreated ME. Neither one of them even wanted me.
But not all parents are assholes. Many of them take it very seriously. And I respect them for that.
But, I understand, and I am sorry. It does seem irresponsible these days to birth a child, I admit. But they are not all horrible people. Most of them just really want to have children and raise a family. It's understandable.

In my opinion, the logic is quite simple. While its a controversial topic, but in the end, I would say there is simply more sufferings in this world than enjoyment, more discomfort & inconvenience than pleasure, if you were to weigh it on a overall scale. From all species involved (humans/ animals), and I of course don't have all the data and statistics, but just from overall observation during the few decades I've been on this earth.

You see corrupted governments, wars, conspiracies, hunger, disease, slavery, conflict with religions/ beliefs, murder, theft, crimes, prisons, divorce, child support, mental & health issues, suicides, disabled, betrayal, cheating, scams, pollution, nature being damaged for capitalism, lots of on-going conflicts, natural disasters, animal cruelty, drugs, bullying, torture, harassment, illegal stuff, politics, literally everything about money, etc.

Just think about for the average human, how much effort is involved to surviving just 1 cycle of life. From 20+ years of school, 50+ years of work, endless chores/ duties/ errands, relationship stress with friends/ family/ lovers, confidence and self-image, 3 meals a day, daily personal hygiene, endless commuting, endless thinking (planning, pondering, analyzing, pivoting, worrying, brainstorming), potential loneliness & emptiness, depression, anxiety, break-ups, keeping up with society, peer pressure, putting on fake mask, competition, staying safe and protecting ourselves, constantly needing to be occupied & entertained to not go crazy, facing death of loved ones, funerals, hospital visits, surgeries, therapy, medication, responsibilities, financial stress, taxes, legal related, etc..... then finally our own aging, declining and death.

Also just think about.... for just 1 single human to survive its average lifespan, how many animals in total need to die to support the daily meals of just 1 single human. Seriously, just do a quick rough estimate. Many thousands of animals per single person?? And think about the amount of waste/ garbage just a single person produces over their lifespan.... and humans (or surviving creatures in general) are actually gross. Do you know the amount of piss, shit, hair, etc. a single individual produces over a life-time? Including all the other gross liquids, puss, shedding skin, etc. that comes out of just a single human body alone. Now when you multiply all this by the billions, humans just becomes the #1 parasite and virus on this planet, constantly needing so much resource and energy to stay alive..... but ultimately just to rot and die in the end.

Of course this topic could be debated in multiple angles, perspectives, etc. And of course, its all part of natural causes, and yes, there are also happy and fortunate people in the world, there are also positives, along with sunshine and rainbows, but what I'm saying (including the OP @Peaceful_Sam ), is just imagine a fair amount of this craziness & headaches, could of been reasonably avoided, by simply a PENIS not ejaculating a SPERM inside a VAGINA....... that is all we are referring to lol. Of course we can't be 100% correct, but just sharing a different perspective as to how a lot of life's struggles could of been prevented by simply not so easily reproducing. People can of course still reproduce, as its human nature, but we just suggest most people be a lottttttt more cautious, compared to how the average person usually approaches this as something very simple, because the world is indeed a complicated place for the most part, thus is why ALL of us on this forum are looking to catch some sort of shiny bus

This is far too complicated a topic, with dynamics and such coming from all sorts of angles. I know some amazing parents, let that be said. Mine were not among them. Peace.
If you don't want to procreate, then don't. I didn't.

 

[Liveandlearnagain]

I have begun to think that teenagers, when reaching a certain age, perhaps 16, should be allowed to move out in a somewhat limited way. Perhaps living at school (as in college) but required to visit home once day out of the week maybe. It's something to think about for our society in the future. Perhaps communities (also somewhat like college) with some supervision would be good for self reliance and self development.

Keeping kids under their parents roof, until they are 18 years old, requiring them to ask to go to the bathroom in school, and then suddenly throwing them into the world and expecting them to know what they want to do for life (in college, or a trade) is insane. It beats them down and then it extends longer, and you have 21,25, and 30 year old kids living at home, failing at life, or their parents finally kick them out and they fail elsewhere.

Some of the parents out there are torturing their kids by forcing their life beliefs on them, whether religion, a sport (forcing them to play football and make football their life), a culture, forcing family on them, whatever it may be. Your child is not you. It is an entirely different person.

On the same note, being real, and not whitewashing the topic, having a kid can ruin a parent's life too. Having a severely disabled kid, especially in the U.S., can put you in financial ruin, and can wreck your life emotionally, socially, and break your spirit and tear apart your dreams when you have to deal with the screams, bites and punches of a 19 or 20 year old who still has to watch Barney and cannot use the bathroom properly. It happens more than you would think.

Likewise, having a fully able bodied child who gets in trouble with the law, or has some other issue, can totally ruin things for you too.

I think every day about this now. These things have ruined my life from both ends. I think society needs to think about family Dynamics going forward. Everyone is mentally unhealthy.

The nuclear family does NOT work in many cases anymore and is bullshit. There needs to be alternatives. Maybe 16 year olds could move out, work after school, and live like that for a bit before moving onto trade school, college, or otherwise.

Things have changed a lot. Families used to stay in one spot forever (back in medieval Europe for example) and your dad was a blacksmith or a tailor, so you would be a tailor, your son would be a tailor ...

Now we move away for jobs. We have planes and cars. People have been doing this for awhile. Back in the 1850s Americans moved west. They said goodbye to their moms, dad's, and families forever. Literally forever. There were no telephones. They might not even know if they made it there ok. Letters didn't always make it there back then.

We have many questions to answer as a society but the 1900s are over, the 21st century is here and eventually we will enter the 22nd.

It's unbelievable that we as a society ignore these problems at large.

My only advice is if your parents are causing you harm as a person (not temporary harm like grounding you or punishing you, I mean consistent, permanent harm to you), get away forever as soon as you can. Don't look back. If they really are harming you, they aren't there to help you. And no, it's not immature of you when your parents really are harming you. And yes, I have seen parents open up credit cards in their children's names and fraudulently put them into financial ruin. Parents can be shittier and more immature than kids.

As for parents. Think about it before you have kids. They are not little versions of you. They will become their own full grown people with free will. They may or may not agree with your wishes, religion, or desires. Also, consider that you may (not usually but May) have a disabled child. There is a chance and you must be responsible and ready. It is no one else's job to take care of that child but you. And you have to plan for what happens when you're gone. In addition, no matter what, children don't stay little. That's only for a little bit. In the 1800s and as late as the 1950s and 1990s, things were different. Now, having a child is a choice. There are a million forms of birth control, including abstinence if you really must be religious. Make the choice before you have the child because you can't change your mind after.

 

[Stan]

I left home at 16, I won't say it was a bed of roses to start with but it made me a better person for quite a while. Don't think I would have had 'the good years' if I didn't do it.

 

[Sweet emotion]

With the physical illnesses and mental anxiety and depression that run in my family I would never have a child. My grandfather told his three kids not to have children. I wish I was never born but I don't hate my parents for having me. My mother is the most wonderful woman in the world. She's supportive and encouraging and she listens. I don't know what I would do without her. I don't want to leave her alone but I am in so much physical pain and have no quality of life. We are the only ones who have to live our lives so I think we have the right to say what happens t us.

 

[bigj75]

With the physical illnesses and mental anxiety and depression that run in my family I would never have a child. My grandfather told his three kids not to have children. I wish I was never born but I don't hate my parents for having me. My mother is the most wonderful woman in the world. She's supportive and encouraging and she listens. I don't know what I would do without her. I don't want to leave her alone but I am in so much physical pain and have no quality of life. We are the only ones who have to live our lives so I think we have the right to say what happens t us.

Same. I would never have a child either. it would be selfish of me to have a child.

 

[Rachel74]

I did not become a parent for this reason. My mom was amazing but my real dad and his lack of love and empathy for me and my siblings as been a big upset for me. The man is a prize cunt! He only came back into our lives last year as my brother was dying and because he was next of kin he got the lot, not my poor sister who nursed my brother, I hate him.

 

[eremito]

Love your parents as long as they are alive

 

[woxihuanni]

Love your parents as long as they are alive

You know what, a fuckload of misery could be avoided if we had the courage to say 'Nope, don't love the fuckers because they done wrong'. All the repressed anger and hate breaks the chosen families WE are building as grown-ups. It all comes out on the partner.

 

[eremito]

Nope, don't love the fuckers because they done wrong

If you keep your grudge inside you, it makes you a slave to your grudge; if you respond to hate with hate, there will be no end to hate

 

[Stan]

If you keep your grudge inside you, it makes you a slave to your grudge; if you respond to hate with hate, there will be no end to hate

I like being a slave, I even have a collar and chains. Hate comes before love alphabetically. May I enquire what prescription you are on as I would love to have some?

 

[magick'sgone]

I've actually changed my initial opinions since spending more time around my family lately. My mother is an extremely anxious bag of worry. My father is a short tempered, angry prick. I got a weird combination of the two. I don't expect them to be perfect but there is one thing that really bothers me: neither of them make any attempts to change or improve, despite knowing they have those traits. Any criticism of those characteristics results in immature responses of exaggerated sadness, or anger respectively. The lack of introspect is fucking staggering. My mother encouraged me to be afraid of everything, believe everyone else was more capable than me, and see the worst possible outcome of every situation as the most likely, and then my father boomed impatient criticism at me for being that way. If not for the fact that this influence caused permanent mental and physical disability, I'd just cut my losses and improve myself. Now i'm stuck here because i'm all too aware of the affect my death would have on others (them included). It's like a sick joke, or a test.

 

[woxihuanni]

My mother encouraged me to be afraid of everything, believe everyone else was more capable than me, and see the worst possible outcome of every situation as the most likely

Mine is a more subtle version of this. If I eat an apple, she is convinced I will bite on a worm. She has such a bleak view of life that I am surprised I did not end up an inpatient or criminal with her raising. She is victimhood personified.

Kudos to the animal in me that just went and took a bite of the apple despite her.

 

[magick'sgone]

Mine is a more subtle version of this. If I eat an apple, she is convinced I will bite on a worm. She has such a bleak view of life that I am surprised I did not end up an inpatient or criminal with her raising. She is victimhood personified.

Kudos to the animal in me that just went and took a bite of the apple despite her.

Kudos to you indeed! It's hard going against what they instil within us, I think we deserve more credit for that.
I have been in the company of my mother and a 2 year old kid as of late. Every time the kid does anything, my mum is like "oooooooooH No! Be careful!" You're going to hurt yourself!" I've told her that this is in fact detrimental, and achieves nothing, but she still does it. I've told her to try explaining why something may be dangerous, or to quietly remove the hazard, or with some incidences that don't have serious consequences, just letting the kid discover for it's self, but she simply wont change. I'm not surprised I grew up afraid of literally everything. I was then bullied by my peers and made to feel weak by my father, so overcompensated by being as reckless as possible. Got some good injuries and a criminal record as a result (which as all my fault, of course). I spent most of my life trying to self improve. Reading books, pushing myself out of my comfort zone, identifying and rectifying my faults, etc etc, while they've done fuck all in that regard.
I realised yesterday that I have NEVER heard my father apologise to ANYONE, EVER.