New YouTube video about us

[RainAndSadness]

You didn't receive any messages from me asking to ban anyone. I don't want anyone banned. It's your claim that you received messages from those who liked the post, when in fact it was you messaging me. And lets not forget, that member is the one forever calling out the people you refer to as pro-lifers. Can't even post anything without being snidely referred to as a pro-lifer. That's my whole point.

They received warnings for that behavior. As I said, your narrative is already debunked. You can keep spreading lies or you can simply do what you announced on your profile. I'm not gonna justify our actions to people anymore who plan to leave this community anyway. I repeatedly explained to you that exactly this type of behavior resulted in a warning and you say we protect exactly that type of behavior. You see the disconnect between your interpretation of the situation and reality?

 

[Sister of the Moon]

You see the disconnect between your interpretation of the situation and the reality?

No I don't, quite frankly. Perhaps you could help me to see it more clearly. What am I missing?

 

[RainAndSadness]

No I don't, quite frankly. Perhaps you could help me to see it more clearly. What am I missing?

1. You claim this member is allowed to call you pro-life and several members in this thread implied or outright claimed it's protected behavior.
2. I said this member has received warnings for this kind of behavior, debunking your notion that this member is protected. But it seems to me that the warnings aren't appropiate actions for you, maybe you'd rather see us ban that member? Maybe that's what I meant, given you keep spreading the same lies over and over and over again.

 

[rationaltake]

So you already know my position and you know that we gave that member warnings because I explained it to you and you still claim I protect members. At this point I'm past assuming you're making these claims out of ignorance. Given what you know, it's simply a lie.

Whatever the situation I don't see the need to call somebody a liar.

 

[Sister of the Moon]

But it seems to me that the warnings aren't appropiate actions for you, maybe you'd rather see us ban that member?

I've just literally said I don't want to see that member or anyone else banned. I also made that clear before. Why are you twisting it?

 

[RainAndSadness]

Whatever the situation I don't see the need to call somebody a liar.

Oh, I do. If someone knows we took action against a particular member and then goes to the public forum anyway and spreads the lie that this member is "protected", someone is intentionally spreading false information.

Maybe you shouldn't claim we protect members, especially when we took action, if you don't want to get labelled a liar. Does that sound like a solution to you?

I've just literally said I don't want to see that member or anyone else banned. I also made that clear before. Why are you twisting it?

Cool, so the warnings are appropiate measures for her behavior, in conclusion, the member isn't protected. Glad we finally agreed on something.

 

[Sister of the Moon]

You are allowed to criticise that member. The point is, there are plenty of people who don't do that and instead engage in targeted harassement and that's when I give out warnings. That's point one. Point two, the member in question has also received warnings for their behavior when it crosses a line. Just because you don't see behind the curtain doesn't mean we're unaware of issues. Nobody has special protection here. I have received messages from a few of those people who engaged in targeted harassement, asking me to take action against that member, implying I should ban them. There has been an attempt to make us crack down on their speech. And I take that into consideration when I see how people talk about that member. And I also see when people talk about that member without mentioning them directly, lowkey attacking them. It doesn't matter if you call them Cake123 or [REDACTED], if we think people are intentionally trying to harass someone with the intention to make them post less, I take action against that. Criticism isn't verbal abuse and harassement. And a few of those people are in the list that liked your comment. You're free to make up your own mind.

You posted this yesterday, calling out several people including myself. I have not taken part in any targeted harassment. "Implying" is a matter of perception, not the truth. It's clear from your post that several people are including myself are on your radar of bad apples, when that simply is not the case. I would argue that the real bad apple is the perpetrator who always causes this week in week out. So that's bullying and harassment is it? Okay.

 

[ge0rge]

funeralcry discourse is more valid than that youtuber's video anyway

 

[rationaltake]

You posted this yesterday, calling out several people including myself. I have not taken part in any targeted harassment. "Implying" is a matter of perception, not the truth. It's clear from your post that several people are including myself are on your radar of bad apples, when that simply is not the case. I would argue that the real bad apple is the perpetrator who always causes this week in week out. So that's bullying and harassment is it? Okay.

You are allowed to criticise that member. The point is, there are plenty of people who don't do that and instead engage in targeted harassement and that's when I give out warnings. That's point one. Point two, the member in question has also received warnings for their behavior when it crosses a line. Just because you don't see behind the curtain doesn't mean we're unaware of issues. Nobody has special protection here. I have received messages from a few of those people who engaged in targeted harassement, asking me to take action against that member, implying I should ban them. There has been an attempt to make us crack down on their speech. And I take that into consideration when I see how people talk about that member. And I also see when people talk about that member without mentioning them directly, lowkey attacking them. It doesn't matter if you call them Cake123 or [REDACTED], if we think people are intentionally trying to harass someone with the intention to make them post less, I take action against that. Criticism isn't verbal abuse and harassement. And a few of those people are in the list that liked your comment. You're free to make up your own mind.

I'm targeted and harassed in this post.

 

[RainAndSadness]

You posted this yesterday, calling out several people including myself. I have not taken part in any targeted harassment. "Implying" is a matter of perception, not the truth. It's clear from your post that several people are including myself are on your radar of bad apples, when that simply is not the case. I would argue that the real bad apple is the perpetrator who always causes this week in week out. So that's bullying and harassment is it? Okay.

I have not said every single person that liked a particular post has engaged in that kind of behavior - you're once again strawmanning my position - but you have called this member basically an NPC a while ago.

I've had similar thoughts. There's at least one suspicious account that reads like badly programmed AI to throw up keywords into a word salad. For what purpose I have no idea, except that there's a worrying pro-death stance being put forward. Things that make you go hmmmm.

If I said the exact same thing about you, wouldn't you consider that a little bit offensive? I don't think that's very constructive criticism, and that's the point, you claim you're not allowed to criticise someone, I say you're not allowed to throw shade like that at someone and I'm sure you would agree with me on that point? There is another member who tends to call her [REDACTED] and bring her up whenever we discuss moderator actions towards other members, essentially egging us on to take action against her as well. This seems to be accepted conduct among the critics in this thread, I don't consider that very acceptable conduct at all.

 

[Sister of the Moon]

Well that was in a thread specifically about AI. Not once did I mention any names and in actual fact there's more than one account, in fact there are three, that read to me like AI. Funny how people place their own interpretations on things. I'm guilty placing my own interpretations on things too, yes, but I don't see how it counts as harassment when no names were mentioned.

 

[RainAndSadness]

And this? Just a coincidence?

Ahhh, sweet Christmas!

I've been away from here for 7 months or so but I see it's still exactly the same things being dramatised as it was back then, by the same instigator. With one exception, the instigator has got much more malicious and bolder because they've been allowed to have the forum as their own unquestionable, untouchable space.

I find it truly pathetic, sneaky and downright malicious to be honest.
I see you, even if so many don't.

Look, I think we have both made our points and I would appreciate if we could go back to discussing the topics of the video. I think it's pretty clear nobody is protected in this forum. If you disagree with me, well, that's your right but I don't it's a very accurate perceiption of the way we handle things here.

 

[Sister of the Moon]

And this? Just a coincidence?

"Ahhh, sweet Christmas!

I've been away from here for 7 months or so but I see it's still exactly the same things being dramatised as it was back then, by the same instigator. With one exception, the instigator has got much more malicious and bolder because they've been allowed to have the forum as their own unquestionable, untouchable space.

I find it truly pathetic, sneaky and downright malicious to be honest.
I see you, even if so many don't."

Nope. I stand by it. It's been going on for months. I'm glad we're finally able to have a full and frank discussion about it though. It should have been addressed a long time before it got to the point it did, maybe now we can clear up all that needs to be said? Maybe there's been a turning point I'm not yet aware of?

 

[jamie_]

Suicide is an extremely complex and nuanced topic which mainstream society fails to address fairly. From what I'm gathering, the attitude of this video is predicated upon the stance that all suicide is bad. Any valid arguments he makes will thus be buried beneath a fundamentally simplistic agenda. He is also a messenger who is easily criticised for an egocentric saviour complex and the inevitable narcissism that goes with possessing a vast army of sycophants yet little life experience to rein in his arrogance.

Anyway, I've read a similar YouTube comments section in the past and it was largely a tribalistic gang-bashing of suicidal communities, mixed with a contradictory hyper-empathetic compassion for the deceased even though they are for the most part the same people. This only proves my point that intelligent nuance is needed rather than us-versus-them warfare.

Aside from having our own tribal identity reinforced by our mutual objection of these tanta-cruel attacks on our right of open communication or bodily autonomy, I feel there are legitimate criticisms of this website which could prevent some tragic outcomes if addressed. But in order to even discuss this, black and white logic must give way to a sophisticated discussion. I think that the result would be a very slight shift in a more mainstream-acceptable direction for the site.

"All suicide bad" is plain wrong, but "wanting to live is delusional" is equally dastardly, albeit at the opposite end of the spectrum. So, while I'm not really a participant in this tribal conflict, if ever there's a genuine discussion about making this a better place, count me in.

I can always rely on Pluto to sum up the thoughts in my head about a situation in a way that I can't. Agree with every word of this wholeheartedly. Fair, insightful, intelligent. I think it's really natural for us – in the midst of the blur that is our mentally ill minds – to not want to further hate ourselves for engaging on such a community that we lose sight of the legitimate issues that it has, especially when we (rightfully) respond negatively to seeing "a tribalistic gang-bashing of suicidal communities, mixed with a contradictory hyper-empathetic compassion for the deceased even though they are for the most part the same people". We are neither evil, twisted individuals encouraging people to die nor innocent minds engaging on a perfect, moralistic forum. Only point I would make that is more of a petty linguistic thing than being in disagreement is I'm not concerned nor that opposed to idea that "suicide is bad". Things do be bad. Bad ≠ an action that is without understanding, especially when you are faced with other bad things.

 

[symphony]

Logged in today because of this. I'm a rather inactive user these days but as soon as I saw that video, I felt this pang in my chest and started to feel scared. I am ever so grateful to SS for empowering me and giving me a choice, or as much so as is possible in a pro-life world. It always seems to me that the more publicity we get, the worse off we are. People are more interested in condemning us than trying to understand us. But at the same time, it was the NYT article that helped me find SS a year ago so it's a mixed bag for me.

 

[ollo]

He gave alot useful info about this site... also who is that cake123.. he was mentioning..
What was the other ss2 site.. he mentioned in his video..

 

[Sunny-Pia]

People, the more we watch his video, the more exposure he gets, in other words-we're literally just promoting him. He's gonna love that! It's better to not give his content any importance and report the video.

 

[Looking]

He gave alot useful info about this site... also who is that cake123.. he was mentioning..
What was the other ss2 site.. he mentioned in his video..

Here's my explanation on "SS2"

 

[Suicidebydeath]

I've never seen anyone else one this site get the same kind of treatment that the mods give that member, but it may also be that no one else on this site makes over 16,000 similarly worded posts with such a controversial and divisive theme. It's not surprising that some members pushback on that and that she gets mentioned indirectly from time to time. IDK if I'd call that targeted harassment, but maybe I'm not seeing what you're seeing behind the scenes.

This is blatantly untrue. This is what you sound like:
Anakin: "Well from my point of view the jedi are evil."

You tell me where else you have seen people continue a targetted harassment campaign against one particular member for several months, and have not been banned yet. I've seen people insta-banned for what I consider far less than that. You tell me how its fair someone with over 140% warning total can engage in that and not also be banned yet. You've been harassing the same member non-stop for weeks and still have the gall to talk about special treatment and favouritism. It's only because you're long-standing members and who you are, and because you've grouped up together, that you haven't been individually banned yet imo.

This is no way a criticism of Rain and the mod team and their handling, they are doing the best job they possibly can, and giving you as many second chances & warnings as they think it will take to get you to stop this behaviour. It's fully a criticism of the things you are posting, continue to post and your viewpoint. From the viewpoint of other people there are several of us wondering why you're getting the treatment of not being banned for harassing someone for months. They are scared to speak up because they don't want to be the next person "targeted", but I am not.

This is literally what you've done anyway, you've decided to gang up on Rain instead now who is acting as the face and voice of reason of the moderation team & this site. It's disgusting.

Quite a few people have been warned for complaining or saying negative things about that member. They do seem to get special treatment imo.

I don't care what you think, you have a clear bias and can't see what you're doing with your own behaviour. A statement like this about 'special treatment' and '16,000 similarly worded posts with such a controversial and divisive theme' are tantamount to slander. "slander is a form of defamation that covers damaging a person's reputation by making an untrue statement about them."

They don't get special treatment, you've been given how many warnings & second chances now to lay off that user? Yet you continue to ignore those warnings & flaunt your second chances. This kind of immunity doesn't last forever.

FC has received a warning for basically "being herself". Yeah for sure I don't agree with everything they post, and after being bullied for months some of her stuff might have crossed over the line, because that is what happens when someone gets bullied relentlessly for months. You've been posting about little side comments about her, arguing with her and harassing her for months. Is that part of you, or is that your behaviour which can be helped? I don't understand why you continue after being given warnings & second and third and fourth chances. You tell me on what other site, would someone break even their first chance arguing with the moderation team and not instantly receive further punishment or outright full ban. In comparison it's incredibly lenient here.

Do you know what is sad and I just realised again. Another thread has been derailed, yet again, because you just cannot stop talking about her in a negative light. You refuse. Out of respect for this thread this is all I will say on the matter but it's just utterly disgusting to me that you continue with this time and again. She is probably traumatized beyond belief because of this. How dare you? honestly.

I've made a new thread about FC https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/funeralcry.107709/ if you want to talk shit about me or her you can do it there instead of derailing thread after thread. Or just make a new thread about FC and air yourself out there. You don't have to slander FC in literally every thread she posts in or even tangentially related to her.
@RainAndSadness @bluem00n

@RainAndSadness I think maybe you should compile a list of the lowkey attacks made so far, I know there have been a lot now and the list would still be condensed . The community can see what we're dealing with. I fed up of the lies and skewed perspectives as well.

I intend to go through her posts and show that the majority of what FC posts is in support of other users and not "over 16000 similarly worded posts with such a controversial and divisive theme." because I think that is also a bs statement to make.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

This is blatantly untrue. This is what you sound like:
Anakin: "Well from my point of view the jedi are evil."

You tell me where else you have seen people continue a targetted harassment campaign against one particular member for several months, and have not been banned yet. I've seen people insta-banned for what I consider far less than that. You tell me how its fair someone with over 140% warning total can engage in that and not also be banned yet. You've been harassing the same member non-stop for weeks and still have the gall to talk about special treatment and favouritism. It's only because you're long-standing members and who you are, and because you've grouped up together, that you haven't been individually banned yet imo.

This is no way a criticism of Rain and the mod team and their handling, they are doing the best job they possibly can, and giving you as many second chances & warnings as they think it will take to get you to stop this behaviour. It's fully a criticism of the things you are posting, continue to post and your viewpoint. From the viewpoint of other people there are several of us wondering why you're getting the treatment of not being banned for harassing someone for months. They are scared to speak up because they don't want to be the next person "targeted", but I am not.

This is literally what you've done anyway, you've decided to gang up on Rain instead now who is acting as the face and voice of reason of the moderation team & this site. It's disgusting.

I don't care what you think, you have a clear bias and can't see what you're doing with your own behaviour. A statement like this about 'special treatment' and '16,000 similarly worded posts with such a controversial and divisive theme' are tantamount to slander. "slander is a form of defamation that covers damaging a person's reputation by making an untrue statement about them."

They don't get special treatment, you've been given how many warnings & second chances now to lay off that user? Yet you continue to ignore those warnings & flaunt your second chances. This kind of immunity doesn't last forever.

FC has received a warning for basically "being herself". Yeah for sure I don't agree with everything they post, and after being bullied for months some of her stuff might have crossed over the line, because that is what happens when someone gets bullied relentlessly for months. You've been posting about little side comments about her, arguing with her and harassing her for months. Is that part of you, or is that your behaviour which can be helped? I don't understand why you continue after being given warnings & second and third and fourth chances. You tell me on what other site, would someone break even their first chance arguing with the moderation team and not instantly receive further punishment or outright full ban. In comparison it's incredibly lenient here.

Do you know what is sad and I just realised again. Another thread has been derailed, yet again, because you just cannot stop talking about her in a negative light. You refuse. Out of respect for this thread this is all I will say on the matter but it's just utterly disgusting to me that you continue with this time and again. She is probably traumatized beyond belief because of this. How dare you? honestly.

I've made a new thread about FC https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/funeralcry.107709/ if you want to talk shit about me or her you can do it there instead of derailing thread after thread. Or just make a new thread about FC and air yourself out there. You don't have to slander FC in literally every thread she posts in or even tangentially related to her.
@RainAndSadness @bluem00n

@RainAndSadness I think maybe you should compile a list of the lowkey attacks made so far, I know there have been a lot now and the list would still be condensed . The community can see what we're dealing with. I fed up of the lies and skewed perspectives as well.

I intend to go through her posts and show that the majority of what FC posts is in support of other users and not "over 16000 similarly worded posts with such a controversial and divisive theme." because I think that is also a bs statement to make.

I've never been warned for anything on this site.

 

[Suicidebydeath]

I've never been warned for anything on this site.

I don't know about direct warnings, however you're aware that there is a warning in place though. Which should be enough. I won't believe it if you said you're not aware of any moderator rulings to leave FC alone & vice versa, since you've already seen the aftermath of ignoring those rulings. It doesn't matter if the warning was applied to you or anyone else directly, if there's sufficient evidence of awareness of what has been going on then I don't think there should be any legitimate confusion on the matter.

I have to make this a quick post for 2 reasons. 1) I'm headed off and 2) I didn't want to get stuck in a "thread derailment" experiment. It's not constructive.

 

[Outandproud]

Videos such as the one from The Perverted Puppy Killer on YouTube assumes that members don't know what they want and need to be dissuaded from their thoughts of suicide.

How and why do they arrive at this conclusion? Why are people like him (and people who agree with him) incapable of taking comments at face value?

If someone says they want to die, where does he get off disagreeing with them?

If people are on the fence, they will tell you.

If people want your advice about staying alive, they will ask you.

Otherwise, STFU (Not talking about you, per se).

The perverted puppy killer LOL

 

[WhiteRabbit]

You tell me where else you have seen people continue a targetted harassment campaign against one particular member for several months, and have not been banned yet. I've seen people insta-banned for what I consider far less than that. You tell me how its fair someone with over 140% warning total can engage in that and not also be banned yet. You've been harassing the same member non-stop for weeks and still have the gall to talk about special treatment and favouritism. It's only because you're long-standing members and who you are, and because you've grouped up together, that you haven't been individually banned yet imo.

I don't understand where you got the 140% and multiple warnings from? I've never been warned, ever. If slander is "" is a form of defamation that covers damaging a person's reputation by making an untrue statement about them." Then this is slander, tbh.

A statement like this about 'special treatment' and '16,000 similarly worded posts with such a controversial and divisive theme' are tantamount to slander. "slander is a form of defamation that covers damaging a person's reputation by making an untrue statement about them."

And saying that a user makes divisive posts is absolutely not slander. She does make pretty fringe and divisive posts often.

Edited to add: The replies to your two Funeral Cry posts that got locked were pretty divided, so maybe I'm not totally off base here.

I don't understand why you continue after being given warnings & second and third and fourth chances. You tell me on what other site, would someone break even their first chance arguing with the moderation team and not instantly receive further punishment or outright full ban. In comparison it's incredibly lenient here.

Again, I've never been warned on this site, ever. I've only argued with the mods maybe twice the whole three years I've been here.

This is literally what you've done anyway, you've decided to gang up on Rain instead now who is acting as the face and voice of reason of the moderation team & this site. It's disgusting.

How am I ganging up on rain? I posted my opinion from what I've seen and she replied to me. I'm not being combative in this thread, you are.

 

[Chinaski]

Suicidebydeath is making some effort to achieve something and I'm not sure what it is, I'm assuming the repeated offers of moderator status need augmenting but this is absolutely needless drama imo.

 

[lonewolf22]

A lot of valid points that were expressed in the video. A few were hard to contest. I fear that like many other sites before it, this one too will be shut down because of public ire over the death of another underage user. There needs to be an ID verification system on this site which prevents users under the age of 21 from registering and posting. Im pro choice but only for those over the age of 25.

 

[Outandproud]

A lot of valid points that were expressed in the video. A few were hard to contest. I fear that like many other sites before it, this one too will be shut down because of public ire over the death of another underage user. There needs to be an ID verification system on this site which prevents users under the age of 21 from registering and posting. Im pro choice but only for those over the age of 25.

And im pro reproducing but only for those people who aren't assholes, still anybody gives two shits about my opinion. Everyone will do what they want to, with or without a forum and being +/- 18/21/25/35/95

 

[SamTam33]

And im pro reproducing but only for those people who aren't assholes, still anybody gives two shits about my opinion. Everyone will do what they want to, with or without a forum and being +/- 18/21/25/35/95

I love this. "I'm pro-reproducing IF..."

If anybody in your family tree has bad teeth, soft bones or a lazy eye... nope. You don't get to play."

Wanna put restrictions on death but none whatsoever on birth. How is that remotely logical?

 

[Endex]

Just finished watching it and wow, what an arrogant take on this site. This is my safe space, where I know I won't be judged by others by having the thoughts and plans that I do have. I check in multiple times each day, not to seek sources or hoax someone into ctb, but because I feel a sense of comfort being in a place where other people understand the struggles.
Notice how he failed to mention the recovery section? He highlighted everything that would seem wrong to someone who isn't suffering, and instead of seeing all the good that's happened here, whether it be recovery, or people trying to recover, he's just pin pointed it as being the worst thing to exist.

To put it bluntly, what an fucking asshole.

This is exactly how feel, I couldn't explain any better.

 

[Per Ardua Ad Astra]

As I've now read, he and others encourage people to doxx the users here, including one who recently took her own life because she was doxxed by people like him.

This is very disturbing

Do you know if the Mods are aware ?

 

[AreWeWinning]

Anyone who doesn't like the video, there is a Report button on YouTube too. I suggest reporting it with a short but informative comment explaining why the video contains false information.