New YouTube video about us

[Ghostofthepast]

FYI: youtube has a "report" button to flag offensive videos

What I did this guy is fucking retarded

 

[Looking]

I just wanted to know why you think Tarantula's ramblings had any validity and where do people go when they're beyond help.

When is it ok to stop suggesting therapy and the like?

Most of the time, you wouldn't suggest therapy AT ALL until the author has shown a slight interested in it previously, or is asking for alternatives, or is asking for treatment in general, or is showing an uncertainty with CTB and needs an influence outside of their communities with a third party, or something similar. As I stated previously, it'd be impolite to offer unsolicited advice if it wasn't related to the author's desires. In the same way I think it'd be impolite to not offer anything helpful to the author. I'd rather they make an informed choice, if that's what they're seeking.

I don't know if we can reasonably expect that kind of professionalism from a group of individuals of various ages, backgrounds, and written communication skills who have self-selected for various ranges of mental illness. That's especially true when discussing interactions with different mental health systems, where much of the userbase has self-selected for negative experiences.

As I stated previously, I don't expect a majority of users to follow my advice previously. Like, I'm not expecting even 1% of the website to listen to my advice (And even then 1% of the website userbase is still WAYY too high to expect from users.)

The post is directed at people who had heard that part in the video and felt some kind of remorse hearing it. I felt guilty when I heard that part of the video, because it's not something I personally want to take part in, and realized I was. I want to stop doing it so I will. I just wanted to provide my perspective counting every response previous to me saying "I actually didn't hate all of the points in the video", hated the video and the video creator (Rightfully so.)

My point is to offer a different point of view to the thread, counting if it was just an entire thread of everyone 100% agreeing with each other 100% of the time, then I feel like people miss the opportunity to think outside of the box for a bit.

At the end of the day, I just want people to do what's best for them. If you struggle to do something like provide educational responses - then don't. Sometimes you just need a place to be like "I relate to you homie" and then move on. That's okay. But not everyone is like that, so I was reaching out to those people specifically, not asking for a change on the website itself. (as I've stated previously.)

I actually genuinely enjoy this website. I've found so much help from here. So utilize the site however you need to. It's just, not everything needs to be an echo-chamber, I guess. If you want it to be, then that's up to you, but it's not what I personally have a desire for.

 

[SamTam33]

Most of the time, you wouldn't suggest therapy AT ALL until the author has shown a slight interested in it previously, or is asking for alternatives, or is asking for treatment in general, or is showing an uncertainty with CTB and needs an influence outside of their communities with a third party, or something similar. As I stated previously, it'd be impolite to offer unsolicited advice if it wasn't related to the author's desires. In the same way I think it'd be impolite to not offer anything helpful to the author. I'd rather they make an informed choice, if that's what they're seeking.

I think our definitions of "helpful" are different, but it's fine.

Also, Tarantula is a tool suffering from grandiose delusions.

I hope he stumbles and lands ass-first on a spiked stick laced with cayenne pepper.

 

[Moonomyth]

As I stated previously, I don't expect a majority of users to follow my advice previously. Like, I'm not expecting even 1% of the website to listen to my advice (And even then 1% of the website userbase is still WAYY too high to expect from users.)

What I mean is that even if 99% of users took your advice, they would not have the skillset to do so. The situation reads like the reverse of the bad responses given in places like Reddit's suicide crisis boards: One or two people trying, with increasing levels of desperation, to coach the rest of the userbase on how to provide helpful comments, while the userbase, entirely on board with being helpful, enthusiastically breaks all of that advice with each comment.

Your alternative view is fine, there's nothing wrong with it at all. But I don't trust the kind of remorse borne of shaming that comes from a content creator who, having read his thread, came here in a place of anger and pain from a recent loss.

 

[lionetta12]

I 100% agree. I think we should be respectful of people who decline medical advice or people who say they've tried everything. It's not our jobs to keep pushing beyond what the people is asking for. I also agree with your second paragraph a lot as well.

I don't understand it when people assume that we or the forum «push» or «encourage» people to suicide, it's actually against the rules and the law in some places. I posted my story: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/my-long-story.106034/ recently and when I did, most people were encouraging towards me living and recovering. It was the last thing I expected from everyone here, but so many people believed in me and that life can work out for me because they viewed me as strong for having kept going for so long and for opening up despite of my horrible life experiences and trauma. Not a single person encouraged me to die, people actually suggested solutions and gave me support, regardless of what my desicion ends up being in the end. People gave me real, genuine answers, that they put time and effort into writing, after actually reading the entire story, you don't find this anywhere else on any other platforms or forums online, this community is sincere and unique. I did not get a single lazy copy paste easy solution «talk to your local 911 operator or mental health hotline because that will solve your life time of trauma and magically make you want to live! :)» answer, which you DO get everywhere else online if you want to open up or discuss a topic like this. It was really heartwarming and it gave me a new perspective on a lot, but I know that I am beyond help as I have done therapy and treatments for many many years and I've tried everything that is legally available to try for my C-PTSD condition. I'm also straight out denied help now since I have already tried everything without any improvement, suicidal ideation and trauma wise, so I don't understand what this Tantacrul guy would want someone like me to do, stay alive to make sheltered people who live in a dellusional utopian bubble like him feel happier and good about themselves because they «saved a life» while I actively live and suffer? I don't think so.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...time-about-the-death-of-spentstardust.103970/ In regards to the boy Tantacrul made a forum thread about, quite a lot of people go on about their lifes through living in a facade. That's why a lot of people who do suicide, seem fine and «normal» prior to their attempt. It comes as a shock to a lot of people if someone they know willingly ended up dying. Not everyone will open up to someone close about what they are going through. Not everyone want to display how they are feeling or that their life actually sucks, this is especially difficult for boys and men statistically. A lot of males will not seek out help or open up due to historic stigmatisation of doing so, straight out sexism and with the fear of not being taken seriously. People naturally want to focus on the «positive» or highlight the good things about themselves and their life, especially as a teenager when you are naturally more insecure and aware. I don't know what made that boy want to end it all. Maybe someone does, but Tantacrul don't know why either, and he were not close with this boy, so why would either of us know and I wish he'd stop pretending that he care so deeply about someone he spoke to 1 time in his entire life. Whatever reason he had, must have been legitimate. You don't just go to a train track and end your life in such a way at age 17 for no reason. As someone who has been suicidal since age 11, where I was neglected and ignored by my own family when I was holding a knife in my hand every day because I wanted to stab myself to death so badly, I am not going to judge anyone regardless of what age they are when choosing to CTB and I'm not going to question what they have gone through that lead them to this point. He might have seemed like a bright person, I was too, and I ended up doing extremely well in life socially, financially, career and school wise, and guess what? I'm still suicidal, miserable, unhappy and traumatized every day due to my unlucky experiences and largely due to other people. Being bright does not automatically = you will stop being suicidal at some point. People are different, people handle life differently, people react to difficult situations differently, not everyone is open, not everyone can be or wants to be. At some point, we have to accept that and let go. It's always heartbreaking and tragic when someone pass away, but that's the circle of life, it will happen eventually, it's inevitable. It's the only thing in life that is certain.

What saddens me the most about this whole situation, is that Tantacrul is making money off of the death of someone he claim to care about which he did not even know at all and over a topic and choice that is so personal and private. Judging other people who are struggling physically, mentally, who are being abandoned by society and let down by the health care system in various countries, what a guy. Tantacrul is a prime example of why I dislike society and most people which is one of the core reasons for why I want to suicide.

Does Tantacrul even know how hard it is to talk about suicidal thoughts and plans to anyone? You get shut down immediately often. It's a very uncomfortable topic for the majority of the population and they don't want to listen to it nor think about it, they don't want to leave their safe little utopian bubble and think about other peoples suffering. If you take this forum away, you take away one of the only places that are open to people who want and need to discuss this topic freely, without fearing judgement. Sure, I can go chat with someone on a mental health website, who gets paid to «care» and who copies and pastes the same answers all day long for the most part. But that does not help me in any way, it makes me even more suicidal to be honest. Or I can call a hotline and be put on hold because there's not enough phone operators or the line «suddenly get disconnected» because my trauma is too heavy for them to listen to. Shutting off platforms because Tantacrul don't like and can't handle opinions and views of others that differs from his, is actually crazy and irrational. So much for free speech, so much for «my body, my choice», so much for «freedom». What a joke this society is. So instead of judging, punishing, and making assumptions about us, people who genuinly suffer and who have been placed into this world, without our consent, without ever being asked if we wanted to be on this earth in the first place, how about Tantacrul go into the complexity of this entire topic and take a look at the world, our collapsing society, our faulty health care system and politicans and make a good solid analysis of that first, maybe then he can understand why some people want to suicide and why some won't ever recover.

People like Tantacrul is the reason why I stopped using YouTube in 2018, I refuse to watch any video on there, including this one. I believe in the power of consumers and I am taking an active stance against giving money, influence and power into the hands of people I deem to be unethical and unworthy of my time and any kind of income generated from me. I encourage others to not watch Tantacrul's content either, if you wish not to.

 

[SamTam33]

I don't understand it when people assume that we or the forum «push» or «encourage» people to suicide, it's actually against the rules. I posted my story: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/my-long-story.106034/ recently and when I did, most people were encouraging towards me living and recovering... Not a single person encouraged me to die, people actually suggested solutions and gave me support, regardless of what my desicion ends up being in the end.

That's how I know people who claim we encourage posters to commit suicide are full of shit. It's a flat out lie.

In their eyes - if we don't flood the thread with replies of 'Nooooo! Don't do it!," then they interpret it as as us encouraging suicide.

 

[Rounded Agony]

Eugh. I'd hoped back when this fool was active he'd take a higher road, but here we are...

I don't understand it when people assume that we or the forum «push» or «encourage» people to suicide, it's actually against the rules. I posted my story: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/my-long-story.106034/ recently and when I did, most people were encouraging towards me living and recovering. It was the last thing I expected from everyone here, but so many people believed in me and that life can work out for me because they viewed me as strong for having kept going for so long and for opening up despite of my horrible life experiences and trauma. Not a single person encouraged me to die, people actually suggested solutions and gave me support, regardless of what my desicion ends up being in the end. People gave me real, genuine answers, that they put time and effort into writing, after actually reading the entire story, you don't find this anywhere else on any other platforms or forums online, this community is sincere and unique. I did not get a single lazy copy paste easy solution «talk to your local 911 operator or mental health hotline because that will solve your life time of trauma and magically make you want to live! :)» answer, which you DO get everywhere else online if you want to open up or discuss a topic like this. It was really heartwarming and it gave me a new perspective on a lot, but I know that I am beyond help as I have done therapy and treatments for many many years and I've tried everything that is legally available to try for my C-PTSD condition. I'm also straight out denied help now since I have already tried everything without any improvement, suicidal ideation and trauma wise, so I don't understand what this guy would want someone like me to do, stay alive to make sheltered people who live in a dellusional utopian bubble like him feel happier and good about themselves because they «saved a life» while I actively live and suffer? I don't think so.

Also in regards to the boy he made a forum thread about, quite a lot of people go on about their lifes through living in a facade. That's why a lot of people who do suicide, seem fine and «normal» prior to their attempt. It comes as a shock to a lot of people if someone they know willingly ended up dying. Not everyone will open up to someone close about what they are going through. Not everyone want to display how they are feeling or that their life actually sucks, this is especially difficult for boys and men statistically. A lot of males will not seek out help or open up due to historic stigmatisation of doing so. People naturally want to focus on the «positive» or highlight the good things about themselves and their life. I don't know what made that boy want to end it all. Maybe someone does, but YOU don't know why either, and you were not close with this boy, so why would either of us know and stop pretending that you care so deeply about someone you spoke to 1 time in your entire life. Whatever reason he had, must have been legitimate. You don't just go to a train track and end your life in such a way at age 17 for no reason. As someone who has been suicidal since age 11, where I was neglected and ignored by my own family when I was holding a knife in my hand every day because I wanted to stab myself to death so badly, I am not going to judge anyone regardless of what age they are when choosing to CTB and I'm not going to question what they have gone through that lead them to this point.

What saddens me the most about this whole situation, is that this guy is making money off of the death of someone he claim to care about which he did not even know at all and over a topic that is so personal and private. Judging people who are struggling physically, mentally, who are being abandoned by society and let down by the health care system in various countries, what a guy. He is a prime example of why I hate society and people which is one of the core reasons for why I want to suicide.

Do you know how hard it is to talk about suicidal thoughts and plans to anyone? You get shut down immediately often. It's a very uncomfortable topic for the majority of the population and they don't want to listen to it nor think about it, they don't want to leave their safe little utopian bubble and think about other peoples suffering. If you take this forum away, you take away one of the only places that are open to people who want and need to discuss this topic freely, without fearing judgement. Shutting off platforms because you don't like and can't handle opinions and views of others that differ from yours, is actually crazy. So much for free speech, so much for «my body, my choice», so much for «freedom». What a joke this society is. So instead of judging, punishing, and making assumptions about us, people who genuinly suffer and who have been placed into this world, without our consent, without ever being asked if we wanted to be on this earth in the first place, how about you go into the complexity of the entire topic and take a look at the world, our collapsing society, our faulty health care system and politicans and make a good solid analysis of that first, maybe then you can understand why some people want to suicide and why some won't ever recover.

People like him is the reason for why I stopped using YouTube in 2018, I refuse to watch any video on there, including this one. I believe in the power of consumers and I am taking an active stance against giving money, influence and power into the hands of people I deem to be unethical and unworthy of my time and any kind of income generated from me. I encourage others to not watch his content either, if you wish not to.​

I just skimmed over your personal history post - not in the frame of mind to read fully now - and not only do I want to express some insufficient and indescribable sympathies for you, but also that this is unfortunately not the kind of thing that people think of when they think suicide...for whatever reason. The general public has been led to mistakenly believe that suicide is nothing more than a transient mental health crisis, ever. Lifelong abuse? System discrimination/failure of existing systems? Issues beyond the scope of those same systems? No one wants to acknowledge those things because they cannot be solved simply by throwing drugs or therapy or shiny happy awareness campaigns at.

I see one high up comment actually espousing a balanced take, which I'll share so others here don't have to click and wade through:

"As someone who's been in therapy since I was a child, tried every possible medication, countless forms of therapy, did all the life changes, been in clinics for months at a time several times and even ended up in a closed psych ward for youth before... I understand why so many on that awful forum have such a pessimistic and terrible view of mental health professionals. Only very few people in all these years have made me feel taken seriously, like they'd at all want to help me get out of this state (and those were typically GPs or neurologists, so not technically in the mental health sector), on the other hand I experienced and witnessed a lot of abuse, maltreatment, indifference. If I didn't know the awful effects it could have on my loved ones if I ended things now, I would 100% try again, my condition is chronic and with the "help" Ive been getting from the doctors and therapists Im seeing and seeing the financial burden I have quickly become due to my condition, I don't see things turning around for me. I don't regret being alive now, but I don't regret my attempts. Noone should romanticise it or talk young people into this instead of getting them help, but it's also important to recognise how the intensity and chronic nature of some people's suffering can justify such a decision. Be kind to yourselves, look out for people seeking help and please do what you can to end abuse and malpractice in the mental health sector, especially for kids and teens."​

​

Of course the responses are moronic. I wonder if you were to share a condensed version of your story in the video comments, @lionetta12, whether people would have the audacity to say the same typically trite shite?

 

[Looking]

What I mean is that even if 99% of users took your advice, they would not have the skillset to do so. The situation reads like the reverse of the bad responses given in places like Reddit's suicide crisis boards: One or two people trying, with increasing levels of desperation, to coach the rest of the userbase on how to provide helpful comments, while the userbase, entirely on board with being helpful, enthusiastically breaks all of that advice with each comment.

Your alternative view is fine, there's nothing wrong with it at all. But I don't trust the kind of remorse borne of shaming that comes from a content creator who, having read his thread, came here in a place of anger and pain from a recent loss.

I see what you mean. I guess my comment(s) aren't really based if it's practical long term or if it makes "sense" for this userbase to go along with what I suggested. I guess at the same time, I also don't see how it's that hard to do... If they don't really want to provide "helpful" responses, they don't have to. If they're unable to, it makes sense, and maybe they shouldn't if they can't. But I don't know how it's complicated to tell someone "You should try therapy if it's something you want to, but I hated my experience personally" instead of "I hate therapy." Or how it requires a skillset of sorts, I suppose. I don't actually view the userbase of this website that intellectually disabled, I guess, to unable to make a minor adjustment such as that.

If you're asking me if I think it makes practical sense for it to work out like that on this website? I mean, not really. If anything, this thread has shown me it's not a thing to expect of anyone here to do. But at the same time, I guess I would rather express my view with maybe it working out to like, a few users or something. Maybe a user or two agrees enough to make that minor adjustment. If not, then no loss on my end.

I don't really know anything about that content creator. From what I can see, everyone here hates his guts. Counting I'm not informed on the subject of this individual, then I'm not going to say much. But you can hate a person and still feel a certain when hearing some words they've said. I guess it was moreso the message to me, not who said it. This creator means nothing to me, so I have no emotional attachment of hating the video or liking the video either way. I was impacted by his words personally. Most of what he said? Really hated, but also I understood where he was coming from. So I'm not going to be aggressive towards him, even if I disagree strongly. Some of it meant something to me, most of it didn't. The part that meant something to me was my personal impact on other people on the website.

I don't understand it when people assume that we or the forum «push» or «encourage» people to suicide,

I think there might've been a slight misunderstanding here. Your point still stands either way, but I thought I would clarify. I don't think anyone "pushes" people to suicide, in the quoted message I meant people push certain subjects beyond what the author really needs. Like, I guess in what we're saying, sometimes we're pushy with our points. Again, not like that single word made a differences in your point, but I still wanted to clarify that.

it's actually against the rules.

I get what you mean by this, but I still disagree. I think you mean that just because people are providing resources/help/support etc, it's not them "encouraging" them to commit suicide per se. In my opinion, it's a bad stance, and kind of makes me chuckle every time someone on here brings it up. I know it's objectively against the rules, but it doesn't really matter if something is against the rules if it's never moderated, lol.

I've used the word "encourage" very carefully, and I've clarified "overly encouraging" for a very good reason. (Second definition)




I do think people's default response on here, most of the time, is for people to commit suicide. If you don't feel like it's people's default response - that's really awesome. But I disagree strongly. The response "it's against the rules" is actually... so bad of an argument. It doesn't matter if it's against the rules - Because I'm not arguing if it should be in the rules or not. Let's not pretend what the site's purpose is for the sake of argument.

I posted my story: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/my-long-story.106034/ recently and when I did, most people were encouraging towards me living and recovering. It was the last thing I expected from everyone here, but so many people believed in me and that life can work out for me because they viewed me as strong for having kept going for so long and for opening up despite of my horrible life experiences and trauma. Not a single person encouraged me to die, people actually suggested solutions and gave me support, regardless of what my desicion ends up being in the end. People gave me real, genuine answers, that they put time and effort into writing, after actually reading the entire story, you don't find this anywhere else on any other platforms or forums online, this community is sincere and unique.

I've never disagreed with this stance, I guess. As I've said previously, this forum has helped me a lot and I've gained so much from it. I love everyone here and I think a lot of people are awesome. I never said that nobody ever posts anything helpful, or that every reply is bad. I think your post is a perfect example of how awesome this community can be and how I believe it shows that everyone here is mainly capable of providing those kinds of responses. I think that's why SaSu is awesome - you won't find support like you can on here on other public communities.

I did not get a single lazy copy paste easy solution «talk to your local 911 operator or mental health hotline because that will solve your life time of trauma and magically make you want to live! :)» answer, which you DO get everywhere else online if you want to open up or discuss a topic like this. It was really heartwarming and it gave me a new perspective on a lot, but I know that I am beyond help as I have done therapy and treatments for many many years and I've tried everything that is legally available to try for my C-PTSD condition. I'm also straight out denied help now since I have already tried everything without any improvement, suicidal ideation and trauma wise, so I don't understand what this guy would want someone like me to do, stay alive to make sheltered people who live in a dellusional utopian bubble like him feel happier and good about themselves because they «saved a life» while I actively live and suffer? I don't think so.

I agree that the lazy responses are brain numbing and suck major balls. I guess I wasn't asking or requesting anyone do that, though. Like I said; I think people should provide those responses and respect the author's wishes if they wish to commit suicide. Again, your post would be a perfect example of people trying, understanding and being respectful. I just ask that more posts are like that, not that they never existed on the site to begin with. I agree that no one should be made to suffer just 'cause. Again, never been my stance, and I'm 100% pro-choice.

I'm not going to respond to the rest of the post, because it doesn't look like it's actually a direct response to me but moreso towards the video. I just responded to the first paragraph because I was directly quoted. I don't know if you wanted me to respond, but I just responded in case!

 

[lionetta12]

I see what you mean. I guess my comment(s) aren't really based if it's practical long term or if it makes "sense" for this userbase to go along with what I suggested. I guess at the same time, I also don't see how it's that hard to do... If they don't really want to provide "helpful" responses, they don't have to. If they're unable to, it makes sense, and maybe they shouldn't if they can't. But I don't know how it's complicated to tell someone "You should try therapy if it's something you want to, but I hated my experience personally" instead of "I hate therapy." Or how it requires a skillset of sorts, I suppose. I don't actually view the userbase of this website that intellectually disabled, I guess, to unable to make a minor adjustment such as that.

If you're asking me if I think it makes practical sense for it to work out like that on this website? I mean, not really. If anything, this thread has shown me it's not a thing to expect of anyone here to do. But at the same time, I guess I would rather express my view with maybe it working out to like, a few users or something. Maybe a user or two agrees enough to make that minor adjustment. If not, then no loss on my end.

I don't really know anything about that content creator. From what I can see, everyone here hates his guts. Counting I'm not informed on the subject of this individual, then I'm not going to say much. But you can hate a person and still feel a certain when hearing some words they've said. I guess it was moreso the message to me, not who said it. This creator means nothing to me, so I have no emotional attachment of hating the video or liking the video either way. I was impacted by his words personally. Most of what he said? Really hated, but also I understood where he was coming from. So I'm not going to be aggressive towards him, even if I disagree strongly. Some of it meant something to me, most of it didn't. The part that meant something to me was my personal impact on other people on the website.


I think there might've been a slight misunderstanding here. Your point still stands either way, but I thought I would clarify. I don't think anyone "pushes" people to suicide, in the quoted message I meant people push certain subjects beyond what the author really needs. Like, I guess in what we're saying, sometimes we're pushy with our points. Again, not like that single word made a differences in your point, but I still wanted to clarify that.


I get what you mean by this, but I still disagree. I think you mean that just because people are providing resources/help/support etc, it's not them "encouraging" them to commit suicide per se. In my opinion, it's a bad stance, and kind of makes me chuckle every time someone on here brings it up. I know it's objectively against the rules, but it doesn't really matter if something is against the rules if it's never moderated, lol.

I've used the word "encourage" very carefully, and I've clarified "overly encouraging" for a very good reason. (Second definition)

View attachment 103746


I do think people's default response on here, most of the time, is for people to commit suicide. If you don't feel like it's people's default response - that's really awesome. But I disagree strongly. The response "it's against the rules" is actually... so bad of an argument. It doesn't matter if it's against the rules - Because I'm not arguing if it should be in the rules or not. Let's not pretend what the site's purpose is for the sake of argument.



I've never disagreed with this stance, I guess. As I've said previously, this forum has helped me a lot and I've gained so much from it. I love everyone here and I think a lot of people are awesome. I never said that nobody ever posts anything helpful, or that every reply is bad. I think your post is a perfect example of how awesome this community can be and how I believe it shows that everyone here is mainly capable of providing those kinds of responses. I think that's why SaSu is awesome - you won't find support like you can on here on other public communities.




I agree that the lazy responses are brain numbing and suck major balls. I guess I wasn't asking or requesting anyone do that, though. Like I said; I think people should provide those responses and respect the author's wishes if they wish to commit suicide. Again, your post would be a perfect example of people trying, understanding and being respectful. I just ask that more posts are like that, not that they never existed on the site to begin with. I agree that no one should be made to suffer just 'cause. Again, never been my stance, and I'm 100% pro-choice.

I'm not going to respond to the rest of the post, because it doesn't look like it's actually a direct response to me but moreso towards the video. I just responded to the first paragraph because I was directly quoted. I don't know if you wanted me to respond, but I just responded in case!

Oh yea sorry, my post was largely towards the content creator, I forgot to quote the first post of the thread and the other posts I was replying to, was not aimed at you!

 

[Looking]

Oh yea sorry, my post was largely towards the content creator, I forgot to quote the first post of the thread and the other posts I was replying to, was not aimed at you!

Okay no problem!! Super sorry, that's what I assumed but I just wanted to make sure that you didn't think I was ignoring your points towards me or something, so I responded just in case. Thanks for the clarification!

 

[Sunset Limited]

Just watching Mar Adentro is enough. They don't have to understand. I don't want to be understood. I want my rights! I don't have to live just because others want it that way. Could the video uploader still be this arrogant at the end of the Mar Adentro movie? Could he blame the woman who gave Ramon the cyanide? I just didn't know I had to live so I wouldn't hurt other people's feelings! The only responsible for the existence of this site is the authorities who do not treat the scope of assisted suicide fairly enough. They believe the people on this site are evil lol. It's like an arrogant princess watching the slums through her telescope from her castle on the hill. We are blamed for wanting a peaceful death. Everything in this world is like a bad joke.

 

[RainAndSadness]

Here is my response.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/my-response-to-tantracul-and-his-video.107547/

 

[lionetta12]

Okay no problem!! Super sorry, that's what I assumed but I just wanted to make sure that you didn't think I was ignoring your points towards me or something, so I responded just in case. Thanks for the clarification!

Thank you, don't worry, only the first few sentances were a response to your post, the rest were just aimed towards what I read earlier overall about the YouTuber but I forgot to add what I was replying to after that. Edited it now to try to make it a little less confusing.

 

[Sunset Limited]

I made a comment and he deleted it quickly. Disgusting people.

"I have Asperger's. I am 45 years old. I lived a terrible life in a terrible country. I have been suicidal for 25 years. I wish I had never lived the last 25 years. If I had the right to assisted suicide 25 years ago, I would have used it. Actually, my real wish is to never have come to this world. Assisted suicide is not legal in my country. Now I have to do this myself. Keeping everyone alive is not the right solution. Thanks to the aforementioned site, I will not have to jump from a high place. Or hanging myself on a heating pipe. I don't want to be hurt or suffer. I want a dignified and peaceful death. If the authorities force someone to live who is suffering and wants to end their life, we should question the authorities, not the existence of these sites. I recommend you to watch the movie "Mar Adentro". When the body becomes a prison of flesh for someone, trying to keep him alive is like throwing wood on his fire. A dignified and peaceful euthanasia should be a human right. If the authorities do not handle this fairly enough, it is inevitable that there will be more than the mentioned sites. The misconception that everyone on the site is evil personalities and wants all others dead is very wrong indeed. You don't know anything about the site you are talking about."

 

[lionetta12]

Here is my response.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/my-response-to-tantracul-and-his-video.107547/

I just read some of your response in the thread that Tantacrul made in November, and it was spot on with what I felt and what I was thinking.

 

[Rounded Agony]

I made a comment and he deleted it quickly. Disgusting people.

Gross. After taking a bunch of time to write one out, I saved it to consider if I actually wanted to post it...guess this makes the decision for me. Totally forgot he has the ability to censor whatever is visible in terms of replies, thus reshaping the narrative to fit his own view. Sigh.

 

[Looking]

One thing I'm quite shocked and/or confused about, that I'm a bit surprised no one has mentioned but I guess it makes sense no one has - is the mention of "SS2".

View attachment trim2.mp4

Here's what I understand: When he mentions that users of the forums are pushing a "specific method", I have to assume this is related to the popularity of the SN method. It's definitely one of the most discussed methods, and one of the most well known on the site currently. I suppose it could be deemed "complicated to achieve" to outsiders, as you do need to follow a lot of guides and maybe have some assistance with it.

He says that you will go to an instruction thread. I mean, makes sense. You see a lot of talk about SN, you're going to read some of the guides. He says that the guide is incomplete though. I'm going to have to assume he's not referring to "Stan's Guide to SN" or "SN Resource Page", but rather the "SN megathread". It's the only one that doesn't have much information, and one of the more popular threads that mentions PPH.

Before starting, I HIGHLY encourage you read most, if not all, of the chapters on the PPH, as this method may not be the most suited for you.

Okay, makes sense. He says that the thread directly links to another forum, which he refers to as SS2. "PPH" is obviously referring to the "Peaceful Pill Handbook". So, he believes that the mention of the PPH will lead you down to the rabbithole of joining the PPH forums. Even though I don't personally understand the connection, I can see how to an outsider, it might look like it. He is right about you needing to buy an expensive subscription to be able to join those forums. For those who don't know, the forums are owned by an organization named "Exit International" - and it's fairly popular and well known.




Here's the thing, though. They have a very strict guideline that only people 50 years or older may join. They even have you verify your age and all of that.

I agree that the forums being public brings a lot of attention to these forums and everything. With that being said, it's not like a lot of the users buy the subscription there, and I guess I don't understand how he connects the two. There's no affiliate link anywhere I can find on the website, and most users don't even directly link to the website to begin with - Which means the users have to Google it and then find the website that way. Which, if you don't know, is awesome for SEO - but not very helpful to the website owner of Exit/PPH to know where that traffic come from. But, let's say that the site owners can just assume they came from SS.

If you ignore the fact that the two websites have almost completely different missions and reasons for existing - I guess, in theory, you can say they're connected when it comes to the right of suicide. Sure, whatever.

But I guess I don't understand where he believes there's a lot of monetary value is being added here. I mean, a huge chunk of the userbase of SS cannot access the PPH forums, there's no affiliate or direct linking - and the biggest point that he doesn't mention at all, which is the most damning - Is that SS actually pirates the books and makes them public. Wouldn't that imply PPH loses money with SS being public, counting it's typically pinned at the top of the forums?

He asks that both websites clarify their relationship with each other - Which I doubt will happen - But I feel like it's pretty clear what the connection is. The connection is that SS pirates a lot of books, that are related to suicide, to share with other users. The PPH is a more popular one, and so it gets pinned by itself and mentioned a lot because it's well known in the community.

If anyone else believes there's a deeper relationship between the two websites, I'd like to know. But I'm just quite confused by his point here. I have to assume he didn't look into it deep enough, knows something that we don't know, or simply just making it up. Either way, I just thought it was noteworthy.

Edit: Funnily enough, as I was writing this, a site admin DID respond to his video. Lmao!

 

[lionetta12]

Eugh. I'd hoped back when this fool was active he'd take a higher road, but here we are...


I just skimmed over your personal history post - not in the frame of mind to read fully now - and not only do I want to express some insufficient and indescribable sympathies for you, but also that this is unfortunately not the kind of thing that people think of when they think suicide...for whatever reason. The general public has been led to mistakenly believe that suicide is nothing more than a transient mental health crisis, ever. Lifelong abuse? System discrimination/failure of existing systems? Issues beyond the scope of those same systems? No one wants to acknowledge those things because they cannot be solved simply by throwing drugs or therapy or shiny happy awareness campaigns at.

I see one high up comment actually espousing a balanced take, which I'll share so others here don't have to click and wade through:

"As someone who's been in therapy since I was a child, tried every possible medication, countless forms of therapy, did all the life changes, been in clinics for months at a time several times and even ended up in a closed psych ward for youth before... I understand why so many on that awful forum have such a pessimistic and terrible view of mental health professionals. Only very few people in all these years have made me feel taken seriously, like they'd at all want to help me get out of this state (and those were typically GPs or neurologists, so not technically in the mental health sector), on the other hand I experienced and witnessed a lot of abuse, maltreatment, indifference. If I didn't know the awful effects it could have on my loved ones if I ended things now, I would 100% try again, my condition is chronic and with the "help" Ive been getting from the doctors and therapists Im seeing and seeing the financial burden I have quickly become due to my condition, I don't see things turning around for me. I don't regret being alive now, but I don't regret my attempts. Noone should romanticise it or talk young people into this instead of getting them help, but it's also important to recognise how the intensity and chronic nature of some people's suffering can justify such a decision. Be kind to yourselves, look out for people seeking help and please do what you can to end abuse and malpractice in the mental health sector, especially for kids and teens."​

​

Of course the responses are moronic. I wonder if you were to share a condensed version of your story in the video comments, @lionetta12, whether people would have the audacity to say the same typically trite shite?

I'm surprised that I didn't see his previous form posts on here, but at the time he was active, I was off the forum for a couple of weeks. Read up on some of it now thought.

No problem, I have a hard time reading heavy and long posts like that at times, it all depends on how much energy I have that day. Thank you for your kind words and for your thoughts on the topic. I agree with your input and it's sad that this is the way it is in society today.

I like that comment and how it shows several sides to all of this. Something I'd wish the creator of the video would do as well, but based off of what he wrote in his thread here in November, he seems very close minded and unable to accept or wanting to consider other aspects or views to a case. I assume he'd either delete my comment or people would post the standard pro life, toxic positvity replies as they usually do on other websites.

 

[Sunset Limited]

Gross. After taking a bunch of time to write one out, I saved it to consider if I actually wanted to post it...guess this makes the decision for me. Totally forgot he has the ability to censor whatever is visible in terms of replies, thus reshaping the narrative to fit his own view. Sigh.

If he really had an answer he would have posted my comment. He showed that he was actually a youtuber trying to get hits instead of trying to understand. There's no point in talking to a deaf person.

 

[DejectedRealtor]

Here's the thing, though. They have a very strict guideline that only people 50 years or older may join. They even have you verify your age and all of that.

But we all know those 'guidelines' are there for show. There have been multiple verified deaths well under the age of 50 who have found the information they were looking for. Let's be honest and stop pretending they are enforced.

 

[Looking]

But we all know those 'guidelines' are there for show. There have been multiple verified deaths well under the age of 50 who have found the information they were looking for. Let's be honest and stop pretending they are enforced.

I mean, I think it's enforced for those forums. I agree that people will find the information either way, but I don't thing young people are finding PPH resources from PPH directly, but rather SS which pirates and redistributes the resources for free.

 

[lionetta12]

One thing I'm quite shocked and/or confused about, that I'm a bit surprised no one has mentioned but I guess it makes sense no one has - is the mention of "SS2".

View attachment 103747

Here's what I understand: When he mentions that users of the forums are pushing a "specific method", I have to assume this is related to the popularity of the SN method. It's definitely one of the most discussed methods, and one of the most well known on the site currently. I suppose it could be deemed "complicated to achieve" to outsiders, as you do need to follow a lot of guides and maybe have some assistance with it.

He says that you will go to an instruction thread. I mean, makes sense. You see a lot of talk about SN, you're going to read some of the guides. He says that the guide is incomplete though. I'm going to have to assume he's not referring to "Stan's Guide to SN" or "SN Resource Page", but rather the "SN megathread". It's the only one that doesn't have much information, and one of the more popular threads that mentions PPH.


Okay, makes sense. He says that the thread directly links to another forum, which he refers to as SS2. "PPH" is obviously referring to the "Peaceful Pill Handbook". So, he believes that the mention of the PPH will lead you down to the rabbithole of joining the PPH forums. Even though I don't personally understand the connection, I can see how to an outsider, it might look like it. He is right about you needing to buy an expensive subscription to be able to join those forums. For those who don't know, the forums are owned by an organization named "Exit International" - and it's fairly popular and well known.

View attachment 103748


Here's the thing, though. They have a very strict guideline that only people 50 years or older may join. They even have you verify your age and all of that.

I agree that the forums being public brings a lot of attention to these forums and everything. With that being said, it's not like a lot of the users buy the subscription there, and I guess I don't understand how he connects the two. There's no affiliate link anywhere I can find on the website, and most users don't even directly link to the website to begin with - Which means the users have to Google it and then find the website that way. Which, if you don't know, is awesome for SEO - but not very helpful to the website owner of Exit/PPH to know where that traffic come from. But, let's say that the site owners can just assume they came from SS.

If you ignore the fact that the two websites have almost completely different missions and reasons for existing - I guess, in theory, you can say they're connected when it comes to the right of suicide. Sure, whatever.

But I guess I don't understand where he believes there's a lot of monetary value is being added here. I mean, a huge chunk of the userbase of SS cannot access the PPH forums, there's no affiliate or direct linking - and the biggest point that he doesn't mention at all, which is the most damning - Is that SS actually pirates the books and makes them public. Wouldn't that imply PPH loses money with SS being public, counting it's typically pinned at the top of the forums?

He asks that both websites clarify their relationship with each other - Which I doubt will happen - But I feel like it's pretty clear what the connection is. The connection is that SS pirates a lot of books, that are related to suicide, to share with other users. The PPH is a more popular one, and so it gets pinned by itself and mentioned a lot because it's well known in the community.

If anyone else believes there's a deeper relationship between the two websites, I'd like to know. But I'm just quite confused by his point here. I have to assume he didn't look into it deep enough, knows something that we don't know, or simply just making it up. Either way, I just thought it was noteworthy.

Edit: Funnily enough, as I was writing this, a site admin DID respond to his video. Lmao!

So the YouTuber is a conspiracy theorist too?

 

[Moonomyth]

I see what you mean. I guess my comment(s) aren't really based if it's practical long term or if it makes "sense" for this userbase to go along with what I suggested. I guess at the same time, I also don't see how it's that hard to do... If they don't really want to provide "helpful" responses, they don't have to. If they're unable to, it makes sense, and maybe they shouldn't if they can't. But I don't know how it's complicated to tell someone "You should try therapy if it's something you want to, but I hated my experience personally" instead of "I hate therapy." Or how it requires a skillset of sorts, I suppose. I don't actually view the userbase of this website that intellectually disabled, I guess, to unable to make a minor adjustment such as that.

If you're asking me if I think it makes practical sense for it to work out like that on this website? I mean, not really. If anything, this thread has shown me it's not a thing to expect of anyone here to do. But at the same time, I guess I would rather express my view with maybe it working out to like, a few users or something. Maybe a user or two agrees enough to make that minor adjustment. If not, then no loss on my end.

I don't really know anything about that content creator. From what I can see, everyone here hates his guts. Counting I'm not informed on the subject of this individual, then I'm not going to say much. But you can hate a person and still feel a certain when hearing some words they've said. I guess it was moreso the message to me, not who said it. This creator means nothing to me, so I have no emotional attachment of hating the video or liking the video either way. I was impacted by his words personally. Most of what he said? Really hated, but also I understood where he was coming from. So I'm not going to be aggressive towards him, even if I disagree strongly. Some of it meant something to me, most of it didn't. The part that meant something to me was my personal impact on other people on the website.

I don't consider the userbase intellectually disabled. I do consider much of the userbase to be unclear when it comes to communication for any number of reasons: difficulty typing, writing in less formal styles, lack of practice with formal writing, language barriers, etc. It's just a skill one can acquire, and if you're not actively trying to do that, writing becomes incoherent. Many of the "I hate therapy" posts you're describing are people trying to do exactly that, commiserating with the original poster and trying to provide advice in the form of their own experiences, but not taking the next step of adding "And based on that experience, here's what you should do."

I don't consider other members to be much different from the people I mentioned above on suicide crisis boards: The desire is there but the skill is not. As many users can attest, often the skill isn't there even with mental health professionals specifically trained to help. It's just a really hard thing to do, that's all. Where I do think they differ is in having similar experiences with that help having failed them, and therefore avoiding the typical anti-suicide platitudes which most people here are familiar with. That's a good step, but it can always go further. You're right that we can't demand it of anyone, but perhaps a few other people will make that adjustment.

Regarding the content creator, I also don't know him beyond the video he posted today and reading the thread he posted in November after it was linked here. All I know is what I've read and viewed, and from what I've read he's someone who is very angry and upset about the loss of one of his fans, and it's clear that even reasonable pro-suicide arguments regarding bodily autonomy won't matter to him, and he is very much interested in government intervention to protect you from yourselves, saying as much in the thread:

To be a bit harsh, I think that's a price worth paying. I think it's more important to ensure as few people as possible kill themselves even if it means other people will sometimes have to feel a bit bad because they'd they're being asked to talk to someone and they'd rather not.

Balance of harm falls pretty strongly in favour of protection, IMO.

and joining the repeal Section 230 crowd in the video, regardless of the future consequences of the act. I don't see much difference here from the actions of other bereaved survivors of those who've CTB. There's not much need to be aggressive to him, but I wouldn't trust the guilt and shame he tries to put on the members of the site any more than I would any other survivor who comes here to demand satisfaction. It's not who he is, but how he's behaving, that means I don't trust the shaming.

 

[apple2myeye!]

i know i shouldnt but i really wanna skim this video to see if any of my piosts managed to be somehow important enough for this concerned citizen/agent of the demiurge to put it in his dumbfuck ass "exposé". im jsut imagining him going "Errrhmm yeesh calm down man get help sheeeshhh yyyiikes jeepers" at one of the ones where im freaking out about objecitively heinous shit like nuclear weapons

 

[ready to go....]

Just finished watching it and wow, what an arrogant take on this site. This is my safe space, where I know I won't be judged by others by having the thoughts and plans that I do have. I check in multiple times each day, not to seek sources or hoax someone into ctb, but because I feel a sense of comfort being in a place where other people understand the struggles.
Notice how he failed to mention the recovery section? He highlighted everything that would seem wrong to someone who isn't suffering, and instead of seeing all the good that's happened here, whether it be recovery, or people trying to recover, he's just pin pointed it as being the worst thing to exist.

To put it bluntly, what an fucking asshole.

 

[SeenMoreThanEnough]

What struck me most about his little 'video' was how he seemed to imply that people who come to this site haven't already been through the gamut of life's bullshit and how the site, or its users, will encourage people who join to do something that they really don't want to do. I truly believe that he has no idea what true emotional pain and/or hopelessness actually feels like.

 

[NotStrongEnough]

What struck me most about his little 'video' was how he seemed to imply that people who come to this site haven't already been through the gamut of life's bullshit and how the site, or its users, will encourage people who join to do something that they really don't want to do. I truly believe that he has no idea what true emotional pain and/or hopelessness actually feels like.

He doesn't actually care about any of us on here. Keep that in mind. He wants to feel morally superior because we treat each other with understanding. We don't throw bullshit platitudes at each other. We understand each other.

I have felt more heard on this site than I have in real life. That's the fuckin bullshit. As I've now read, he and others encourage people to doxx the users here, including one who recently took her own life because she was doxxed by people like him. He's not saving anyone, he's just wanting to feel superior to others.

True trash.

 

[CowsAgainstCapitali]

Let's call the guy why he is: a child raping monster. Dude literally served 8 years in prison for kidnapping and sodomy.

He doesn't care about the truth, very few humans do.

 

[Obliviate]

This guy (who created the video) actually created an account and was here. This is his thread: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...time-about-the-death-of-spentstardust.103970/

OMG WTFFFF. Fucking egotistical idiot.

 

[NotStrongEnough]

Let's call the guy why he is: a child raping monster. Dude literally served 8 years in prison for kidnapping and sodomy.

He doesn't care about the truth, very few humans do.

Wait, WHAT?