My therapist and I bonding over SN 😳

[Goku Black]

Your therapist is probably just trying to lull you into a false sense of security by relating to you in some way. Maybe that's what they were trained to do.

I gotta agree with this because it was the first thing I suspected, no way I'd expect a therapist to be that open about a method.

 

[surroundedbydemons]

Hello

I agree with @wait.what, @Captive_Mind515, and @Dr Iron Arc. I suspect she tries to have something in common with you to keep the conversation going.

The alternatives to acknowledging your "desire to CTB" would be either to talk you out of it or to remain neutral towards your position.
I think your therapist cannot simply be neutral for too long and wait for you to keep talking, so she has to take a particular stance.
If she were going against your desire, it would most likely result in you distancing yourself from her because you would think she "does not understand you". For example, just this thread today: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/frustrating-tactics.154918/

it looks like we'll be asking each other about our package updates next time 'round

Well, now you and she have one more talking point, so I guess it's a win for her as she can continue talking to you. And I guess she has some form of additional control now as the SN method also requires specific preparations to be made so that she would be alarmed if you, for example, additionally got antiemetics.

In the grand scheme of things, her strategy is to be an active listener for some time and then steer you towards the solution she ultimately wants.



Although I might be extremely paranoid about this. It is probably not as severe/bizarre as I surmise. If I were you, I would record all my therapy sessions and rewatch them if I had any doubts about the information that I or my therapist said and why it was said.

Sry for bad English

 

[uniqueusername4]

I want to see a positive spin on this because clearly you do, but my gut says red flag. She's got more power than you do in this situation…you could be forcibly hospitalized on her word. She's acting VERY peculiarly for a therapist, in fact she seems to have kicked the whole rulebook to the curb. What strange way will she jump next, and will you get hurt by it?

Obviously you've got to listen to your gut rather than mine, but I think if it were me, I'd be cagey about revealing anything more about the SN, and cautious with this therapist in general. It's natural to want to respond to openness with openness, but you're in a situation where criminal and civil laws apply first and foremost. The usual "rules" of purely social interactions are secondary at best, and may turn out not to apply at all. (The same caveats apply in interactions with the police as well, if it comes to that.)

I could see the patient having a power in this sense too because they could report this behavior to the board and have their licenses at risk. I always feel a lot better when I have an exit plan even if I don't think I will use it, so maybe the therapist and patient are using that logic. Not saying the therapist is in the right here, it is a very unique situation. I wonder if the therapist had recovered and now relapsed back into suicidal ideation and is not navigating that correctly with this patient at all. A form of self sabotage, I'm sure if their license was revoked it would be easier to ctb.

 

[dogbreath]

Is your therapist accepting new clients and can u give her my number??!?! LOL jkjk but seriously though, I know a lot of ppl have said that's irresponsible of her but idk it just feels like she's saying "hey you can trust me with anything I will understand you" I don't know you or your therapist but if she's helpful, stick with her, she seems chill imo

 

[AL-SL-AK]

My own experiences with mental health teams and reading stories like this is exactly why I've lost any hope I had. It's hard to find meaning when you know the systems are all a facade. If I could make everyone on this site feel better then I would. I would love to feel better myself but the constant up and downs are exhausting and the downs are lasting longer and longer.

I've experienced unprofessional professionals myself

 

[wagner2029]

I think the therapist is probably trying to open up to be able to treat more effectively.
Each place has its particularities, in Brazil it is possible to buy SN by the kilo, by mail, without any authorization, even people can buy directly from companies.

 

[Naked Weapon]

I think the therapist is probably trying to open up to be able to treat more effectively.
Each place has its particularities, in Brazil it is possible to buy SN by the kilo, by mail, without any authorization, even people can buy directly from companies.

Yes, I think it's partially because of how much I've expressed my trauma from involuntary hospitalisations and welfare checks and whatnot. I remember one time in high school a police officer asked if I had plans to CTB and I said no, then he asked if there were a magic button that would end my life would I press it and I said yes, but that there weren't any magic buttons so I'm safe. The officer proceeded to escort me to the ER and I was stuck in a ward for a few days. My therapist recognises that going "all in" when I talk about life just makes me feel worse and would rather I be open without fear of "punishment".

She still makes it clear what statements will force her to call emergency services and that I shouldn't CTB, but makes sure I have an open space since these feelings are such a huge part of my distress and the one thing that I haven't been able to talk about with other professionals. She doesn't mind me having SN or a firearm so long as we can work to prevent impulsivity and exhaust all our options.

 

[wagner2029]

Yes, I think it's partially because of how much I've expressed my trauma from involuntary hospitalisations and welfare checks and whatnot. I remember one time in high school a police officer asked if I had plans to CTB and I said no, then he asked if there were a magic button that would end my life would I press it and I said yes, but that there weren't any magic buttons so I'm safe. The officer proceeded to escort me to the ER and I was stuck in a ward for a few days. My therapist recognises that going "all in" when I talk about life just makes me feel worse and would rather I be open without fear of "punishment".

She still makes it clear what statements will force her to call emergency services and that I shouldn't CTB, but makes sure I have an open space since these feelings are such a huge part of my distress and the one thing that I haven't been able to talk about with other professionals. She doesn't mind me having SN or a firearm so long as we can work to prevent impulsivity and exhaust all our options.

Many people think that preventing CTB is just preventing the person from having the resources for CTB.
In their minds, they are doing the right thing.
Treating the feelings that lead to CTB is different from simply stopping CTB.

 

[SexyIncél]

She sounds awesome, from what I understand! That said, maybe save a little evidence — so if she betrays you, she goes down too. But again, she sounds great (unless I'm missing something)

 

[ropearoundatree]

Yes she did; this situation feels like a comedy sketch.

I know I'm just as confused as you are

It's actually quite common for people work in this field to be mentally unwell/or unstable (suicidal, even) as well - half of them, that might be one good or strong reason to delve into the profession (in the first place!) . . . I believe my vet friend, had said, upon completion of her studies for training, that her's had one of the highest suicide rates of them all~ / so anyway? Strange as it seems, it is maybe not so unusual or hard to understand, and then believe, once you begin to examine it in this regard. I'd imagine, even those who had not been in this boat, may find themselves in it at some point just due to the nature of the beast, at their office, so to speak! But as far as interacting in this way with you and almost speaking as if a peer in this endeavor, I don't know, unless this is some atypical strategy or tactic/technique on her behalf, something of a twist on reverse-psychology, perhaps? Then I only see all kinds of compromises in her professional boundaries, ethics, standards/methods & ways: I'm missing (out) on the word, but hopefully it's there - somewhere~ in between the lines! Ha. Sorry, you're having to deal with this: how equal parts awkward, and uncomfortable it all must be for you? Best wishes as you navigate through this. . .

I want to see a positive spin on this because clearly you do, but my gut says red flag. She's got more power than you do in this situation…you could be forcibly hospitalized on her word. She's acting VERY peculiarly for a therapist, in fact she seems to have kicked the whole rulebook to the curb. What strange way will she jump next, and will you get hurt by it?

Obviously you've got to listen to your gut rather than mine, but I think if it were me, I'd be cagey about revealing anything more about the SN, and cautious with this therapist in general. It's natural to want to respond to openness with openness, but you're in a situation where criminal and civil laws apply first and foremost. The usual "rules" of purely social interactions are secondary at best, and may turn out not to apply at all. (The same caveats apply in interactions with the police as well, if it comes to that.)

See, now that was my first instinct, or gut reaction as well. Is what are the status of her credentials & licensing or how is she approved by law to practice, so to speak? Are we sure she's entirely legit. Dont' just trus t the nice degree hanging in the sparkling shiny & clean frame behind her desk. Which must be mad e of solid oak. Is this a "private" practice, by chance?

Hey you can be a wounded healer

You know, it might be a little bit like those who are suffering from substance abuse, being treated at facilities where the counselors & staff are themselves, former chemical dependency subscribers.

This might be a trend considering that I'm a psychology major.

You just need to know all the language to avoid

It actually can be incredibly advantageous if you do go through with it (the degree, and not ctb). As I think it give you incredible insight, into the mind of a severely depressed individual, and suicidal patient as well. And to also have some compassion, and sympathy for ... that is other wise / or can be: severely, "lacking,' in other quarters of the mental health team of professionals in charge of your care.

I suppose I can see why everyone is freaking out but from what you've told us about her- she believes people have the right to end their own lives. It seems entirely possible that she isn't deeply suicidal but like many of us- she isn't relishing old age. Maybe she bought it for future use. She can likely see all the media storm around it and is maybe predicting it will only become harder and harder to obtain- so, like many of us, she's getting it while she can to keep her options open. Just a theory of course.

I actually think I'd prefer to have a straight talking therapist rather than play the peculiar game of witholding the ideation bit for fear of heavy handed responses. Why shouldn't someone who is possibly suicidal themselves not be able to help another person? Especially if they have been trained to. They know you're seeing them to try and cope better with your life. Maybe to make it better. They can surely still give you advice on how to do that but at the same time, be honest and realistic about how you're actually feeling. I think I'd prefer a more realistic approach to an authorative, stern one.

This would be highly interesting, indeed. If your theory proved to be correct. Only insofar as, she must be skirting some huge professional rules. Or like, how doctors have to do that ..."hippocratic oath?"

The only way this would make sense for me is if you were from France .

Can you please explain why? I'm too stupid & naive to understand..;)

This seems (pardon my French) hella sus.

Your therapist is probably just trying to lull you into a false sense of security by relating to you in some way. Maybe that's what they were trained to do. Even if they really did order their own SN it's weird they'd keep it if they don't intend to use it.

Or maybe she just wants to test/try it out, at a safe dosage of course, with which she can then ascertain a better understanding of her clients/n' patients. You know, somewhat akin to how the cops or police, are required to be tased & pepper sprayed? :D

 

[jabberwocky47]

Sorry, I'm new here. What is SN?

 

[Cakeisalie]

Sorry, I'm new here. What is SN?

 

[TheSoloBandit]

She might just be pretending to maybe try and help you or change your mind but It won't be farfetched for a therapist to be suicidal themselves. Suicidal people are not aliens. We all are just ordinary Individuals with different professions, one of which can be a therapist. I would advice you to always remember she still has the upper hand in this situation and be very cautious of what you say to her or what you do.

Thank you for saying this. I'm not a therapist, however my job does entail me sitting with suicidal individuals on a fairly regular basis. I most often feel like I'm the pot calling the kettle black. We're all just trying to get through.

 

[ropearoundatree]

The other thing that it does, when working with people who are mentally unwell, is it allows you to forget about yours, and your own mental health problems, or challenges & struggles, just for a little bit. At least, that was my experience when working in the group homes (or adult foster care) for so many years... I didn't have to worry about myself, and my own stuff--because I was too busy pouring all of my own time & energy into them, and to trying & help them to get/feel better, etc~. ;)

 

[4.I.2.Must.Die]

Had to bump this one again

 

[theboy]

strange

 

[Unsure and alone]

Woa

So I don't know what forces I had to please to get this therapist, but we have been having the strangest interactions these past few weeks and I thought you all might enjoy the most recent one.

First off, she's quite accepting of my desire to CTB, ever since I first started seeing her three years ago. She has a professional interest in keeping me alive, of course, but she accepts suicide as an option for anyone who finds it necessary. She also knows that I bought SN, and is supportive of me keeping it (locked up in a safe, of course). She asked me this week if I read the BBC articles about SN. I said yes, and that I was stressed out now because I had a package on the way from MDS and was worried that I would get a welfare check. To my shock, she said "Me too. Most therapists don't get told about 'new' methods from their clients because the clients are afraid of what might happen to them, but you got me curious and it looks like we ordered from the same place". We laughed about it for a while and it looks like we'll be asking each other about our package updates next time 'round. What is wrong with us

Woah. Wish I could see a counselor that safe to talk too.

Do you mind me asking how did you learn if you could trust this counselor with this kind of information ?

Yes, I think it's partially because of how much I've expressed my trauma from involuntary hospitalisations and welfare checks and whatnot. I remember one time in high school a police officer asked if I had plans to CTB and I said no, then he asked if there were a magic button that would end my life would I press it and I said yes, but that there weren't any magic buttons so I'm safe. The officer proceeded to escort me to the ER and I was stuck in a ward for a few days. My therapist recognises that going "all in" when I talk about life just makes me feel worse and would rather I be open without fear of "punishment".

She still makes it clear what statements will force her to call emergency services and that I shouldn't CTB, but makes sure I have an open space since these feelings are such a huge part of my distress and the one thing that I haven't been able to talk about with other professionals. She doesn't mind me having SN or a firearm so long as we can work to prevent impulsivity and exhaust all our options.

I really hope that's the case for you.
Sounds like either a long game as others have said or someone who understands the damage being forced does .

Understands that you can't work on what's not safe to even mention.

 

[Naked Weapon]

Do you mind me asking how did you learn if you could trust this counselor with this kind of information ?

First I recommend figuring out what the guidelines are for what warrants medical for the therapist. You usually just have to establish that you aren't a threat and don't have plans, and are sure to clarify this whenever you discuss topics of this nature. I think the fear a lot of people have about talking to therapists about these things is the result of what happens when the line between ideation and intent blurs. For example, there's a difference between saying "I want to CTB" and "I've been thinking a lot about suicide recently". You can also talk about a history of distrust and/or emotional neglect when it comes to these subjects if applicable and that people aren't willing to listen but instead try immediate "treatment" that just leaves you right back where you started. As long as you establish a solid line between what you intend to do and what you think about (the latter of which being what's relevant), you shouldn't run into too many problems.


Also, as an update, the therapist has developed an obsession with SN. She finds it fascinating and it looking into every aspect of its history. We had a good conversation about the news articles regarding Kenneth Law today in addition to some interesting information I learned from the PPH. She said that she knows it's her job to educate herself on these things, but she can't help but find it "cool" regardless. She's praising it to all her colleagues.

 

[walkingdead2023]

So I don't know what forces I had to please to get this therapist, but we have been having the strangest interactions these past few weeks and I thought you all might enjoy the most recent one.

First off, she's quite accepting of my desire to CTB, ever since I first started seeing her three years ago. She has a professional interest in keeping me alive, of course, but she accepts suicide as an option for anyone who finds it necessary. She also knows that I bought SN, and is supportive of me keeping it (locked up in a safe, of course). She asked me this week if I read the BBC articles about SN. I said yes, and that I was stressed out now because I had a package on the way from MDS and was worried that I would get a welfare check. To my shock, she said "Me too. Most therapists don't get told about 'new' methods from their clients because the clients are afraid of what might happen to them, but you got me curious and it looks like we ordered from the same place". We laughed about it for a while and it looks like we'll be asking each other about our package updates next time 'round. What is wrong with us

Therapists are human too CTB is every one honey! Just be careful tho I'm a nurse but I won't clearly talk with my patient like that about my plans or method and will have different approach if my patient have a plan

 

[Unsure and alone]

First I recommend figuring out what the guidelines are for what warrants medical for the therapist. You usually just have to establish that you aren't a threat and don't have plans, and are sure to clarify this whenever you discuss topics of this nature. I think the fear a lot of people have about talking to therapists about these things is the result of what happens when the line between ideation and intent blurs. For example, there's a difference between saying "I want to CTB" and "I've been thinking a lot about suicide recently". You can also talk about a history of distrust and/or emotional neglect when it comes to these subjects if applicable and that people aren't willing to listen but instead try immediate "treatment" that just leaves you right back where you started. As long as you establish a solid line between what you intend to do and what you think about (the latter of which being what's relevant), you shouldn't run into too many problems.


Also, as an update, the therapist has developed an obsession with SN. She finds it fascinating and it looking into every aspect of its history. We had a good conversation about the news articles regarding Kenneth Law today in addition to some interesting information I learned from the PPH. She said that she knows it's her job to educate herself on these things, but she can't help but find it "cool" regardless. She's praising it to all her colleagues.

Part of the trick there is how to figure that out without raising all the red flags .

Especially in person it's harder to raise the oh how would you deal with the suicidal ?

And pretend you're totally good.
Not even a shadow of it on your mind.

 

[Naked Weapon]

Therapists are human too CTB is every one honey! Just be careful tho I'm a nurse but I won't clearly talk with my patient like that about my plans or method and will have different approach if my patient have a plan

Oh trust me, I'm very cautious; all of my medical experiences have made my views towards mental health care very cynical and I'm protective of my information when I need to be.

 

[Unsure and alone]

Part of the trick there is how to figure that out without raising all the red flags .

Especially in person it's harder to raise the oh how would you deal with the suicidal ?

And pretend you're totally good.
Not even a shadow of it on your mind.

It's actually quite common for people work in this field to be mentally unwell/or unstable (suicidal, even) as well - half of them, that might be one good or strong reason to delve into the profession (in the first place!) . . . I believe my vet friend, had said, upon completion of her studies for training, that her's had one of the highest suicide rates of them all~ / so anyway? Strange as it seems, it is maybe not so unusual or hard to understand, and then believe, once you begin to examine it in this regard. I'd imagine, even those who had not been in this boat, may find themselves in it at some point just due to the nature of the beast, at their office, so to speak! But as far as interacting in this way with you and almost speaking as if a peer in this endeavor, I don't know, unless this is some atypical strategy or tactic/technique on her behalf, something of a twist on reverse-psychology, perhaps? Then I only see all kinds of compromises in her professional boundaries, ethics, standards/methods & ways: I'm missing (out) on the word, but hopefully it's there - somewhere~ in between the lines! Ha. Sorry, you're having to deal with this: how equal parts awkward, and uncomfortable it all must be for you? Best wishes as you navigate through this. . .

See, now that was my first instinct, or gut reaction as well. Is what are the status of her credentials & licensing or how is she approved by law to practice, so to speak? Are we sure she's entirely legit. Dont' just trus t the nice degree hanging in the sparkling shiny & clean frame behind her desk. Which must be mad e of solid oak. Is this a "private" practice, by chance?

You know, it might be a little bit like those who are suffering from substance abuse, being treated at facilities where the counselors & staff are themselves, former chemical dependency subscribers.

It actually can be incredibly advantageous if you do go through with it (the degree, and not ctb). As I think it give you incredible insight, into the mind of a severely depressed individual, and suicidal patient as well. And to also have some compassion, and sympathy for ... that is other wise / or can be: severely, "lacking,' in other quarters of the mental health team of professionals in charge of your care.

This would be highly interesting, indeed. If your theory proved to be correct. Only insofar as, she must be skirting some huge professional rules. Or like, how doctors have to do that ..."hippocratic oath?"

Good points to consider.

Can you please explain why? I'm too stupid & naive to understand..;)

Yeah I'm wondering that too.

Or maybe she just wants to test/try it out, at a safe dosage of course, with which she can then ascertain a better understanding of her clients/n' patients. You know, somewhat akin to how the cops or police, are required to be tased & pepper sprayed? :D

Umm you do know there is no safe dose of SN right ?
Well not SN at a certain purity anyways.
There's a thread somewhere on here of someone going to the hospital for having 1 gram of SN.

I also made a stupid experiment with trying it.
I did not get any treatment but did feel the effects of SN.

So I Would strongly recommend you
seriously do a lot of research beforehand and be okay with ending up dead .
If you have any thoughts about trying SN in any format or level.
Instead of straight up CTBing with it.

Oh trust me, I'm very cautious; all of my medical experiences have made my views towards mental health care very cynical and I'm protective of my information when I need to be.

Good
Also very interesting she is also so interested in the method

 

[SillyGirl>_<]

This might be a trend considering that I'm a psychology major.

I've found this true with the people I've met studying psychology one of my friends messaged me this "Assuming I survive my only intent to being a clinical psychologist is to actually help these people. The mental health industry gives 0 fucks about actually problem people since they provide no economic benefit. Better to deal with normal peoples small issues than fucked peoples large issues if the normal people are making more money for society". (@Holu )

 

[ropearoundatree]

Umm you do know there is no safe dose of SN right ?
Well not SN at a certain purity anyways.
There's a thread somewhere on here of someone going to the hospital for having 1 gram of SN.

Yes, I was trying to just suggest what might be running through her mindset, or head. :) I'm sorry to hear of your experiences with it, though. And hope you don't have any lingering or ongoing consequences, or ramifications, and adverse effects going ahead. Wishing you all the best & thank-you for the very thoughtful reply! I don't know why I got on such a roll, there? but! ...Well, we see what happens (now) around here when I do! ;) See you later

 

[rozeske]

I also made a stupid experiment with trying it.
I did not get any treatment but did feel the effects of SN.

How did you find the symptoms to be? Was it too painful like some fear and make it out to be or was it manageable?

 

[Unsure and alone]

Yes, I was trying to just suggest what might be running through her mindset, or head. :) I'm sorry to hear of your experiences with it, though. And hope you don't have any lingering or ongoing consequences, or ramifications, and adverse effects going ahead. Wishing you all the best & thank-you for the very thoughtful reply! I don't know why I got on such a roll, there? but! ...Well, we see what happens (now) around here when I do! ;) See you later

Glad you know that.
I hope that's not what the therapist is thinking.
Since it's not something there's a oh take less than x and your fine type substance.

I'm okay physically.
Well from the SN thing anyway.

It's a very interesting thread so it makes sense to want to chime in.

See you around :)

How did you find the symptoms to be? Was it too painful like some fear and make it out to be or was it manageable

I personally wasn't really bothered by the symptoms.
It was a very tiny amount .

I found it very manageable.
I was acting impulsively and with a complicated mental mindset .

I think it's something at a higher dose some people may be very afraid of it.

It will depend on the person and the mental state
Whether or not this causes mental distress.

Because I felt my heart speeding up and the other symptoms.
But it didn't hurt.

I didn't feel any pain.
I felt the symptoms of it
But not pain

I believe that I can go through with it at the full dose
When and if the time comes.

Feel free to ask any other questions.

I may have difficulty answering some of them but I don't mind trying.

 

[noname223]

I have a hard time to believe this story. One of my former therapists was okay with being in a suicide forum that is not recovery oriented though. But this story sounds pretty insane. Holy shit. I am sceptical but it is possible.

 

[sapphoslastpoem]

This would be funny if it wasn't so sad. A desperate person seeks a therapist only to find that the therapist is also another desperate person who probably needs a therapist as well. What a life. Wow.

What a strange and sad timeline we live in. This world is a nightmare

 

[DreamEnd]

What a strange and sad timeline we live in. This world is a nightmare

Wounded healer haha

 

[Naked Weapon]

Update: SN arrived today. My therapist asked me to message her whenever it arrived but I told her I merely flushed it down the toilet and disposed of the packaging discreetly. I've come this far and I'm not taking my chances; I'm going out the way I intend to.