Method methods by easy to obtain chemicals

[Arak]

@HannibalLector ,

PPEh about buying cylinders: There are at least some restrictions. I'm not quite sure about 1,000 PPM cylinders. One chemcal supplier of pure CO/quantity stated that the product was restricted. Quora claims it is restricted. I'd need to look further, but the PPEH mentions it as an option. My impression: not likely.

COGen (PPEH) is basically designed for smaller quantities. As for renting a small car and location etc ...

 

[GerMann]

Upps! When the acid´s get heat up it produce a lot more odor, doesn´t it smell hatefull (like crushed ants)?
I would try several small acid-mixtures, then one huge.

 

[Arak]

That's a good point ? Anu serious smell ? I could stand it I guess but if a bit of that sulphuric type smell got out the room ...

 

[chemicalctb]

That's a good point ? Anu serious smell ? I could stand it I guess but if a bit of that sulphuric type smell got out the room ...

H2SO4 boils at 337degrees, you wont reach that so the only smell you'll get is the smell of its already existing vapor pressure, so basically the same smell you get when you smell it from the vial directly, but that smell doesnt fill up your place(it will only smell directly above the pan by a small distance) unless you reach boiling point and vaporize it.

 

[Ssrejisser]

being the chemist in here i'd like to tell you guys about methods to ctb with commonly found chemicals.
the goal is to stop the heart or stop oxygen flow so that the death is not painful.

1) its easy to get a heart attack by consuming caffeine, buy pure powdered caffeine online(its really cheap and available/legal) mix more than 20g of it( the LD50
2) CO poisoning, just buy H2SO4(sulfuric acid) and HCOOH(formic acid) you can buy them online from anywhere easily, the H2SO4 dehydrates the formic acid and liberates carbon monoxide, mix and heat as much of them as u can in an airtight(closed windows and all) preferrably small room, you will feel sleepy and then never wake up. make sure u are by yourself as it needs about 30mins before you lose conciousness(someone who was posting on a group a couple of years ago did it and was updating us periodically, he didnt mention any problems we just found out from news when he died, so 0 pain, he was from the Netherlands, i guess Limburg or Leiden area if memory serves me right.
3)buy a nitrogen cylinder tank, open it in an airtight place or preferrably in a small box with u in it, you will just drift into a deep sleep and die.

being the chemist in here i'd like to tell you guys about methods to ctb with commonly found chemicals.
the goal is to stop the heart or stop oxygen flow so that the death is not painful.

1) its easy to get a heart attack by consuming caffeine, buy pure powdered caffeine online(its really cheap and available/legal) mix more than 20g of it( the LD50 is 200mg/kg but the more the better, to be sure) and drink it, you'll get a heart attack and ctb.
2) CO poisoning, just buy H2SO4(sulfuric acid) and HCOOH(formic acid) you can buy them online from anywhere easily, the H2SO4 dehydrates the formic acid and liberates carbon monoxide, mix and heat as much of them as u can in an airtight(closed windows and all) preferrably small room, you will feel sleepy and then never wake up. make sure u are by yourself as it needs about 30mins before you lose conciousness(someone who was posting on a group a couple of years ago did it and was updating us periodically, he didnt mention any problems we just found out from news when he died, so 0 pain, he was from the Netherlands, i guess Limburg or Leiden area if memory serves me right.
3)buy a nitrogen cylinder tank, open it in an airtight place or preferrably in a small box with u in it, you will just drift into a deep sleep and die.
4) potassium chloride, you can buy it anywhere as powder, just dissolve it and inject it to get your heart stopping, the potassium is what does it, chloride is just a counter anion.
5) if you can get your hands on sodium cyanide and ingest it on a clear stomach(to insure high acidity) HCN will form in your stomach and you will die without any pain since u wont be able to feel your cells getting deprived from oxygen via the CN biding to the cytochrome-C-oxidase of your cells, lethal dose can be 1.5g as documented by David Q. Conibear who caught the bus on Friday, October 2, 1992 after writing his final note on ashspace. just make sure you have enough time alone when you do this. and make sure u want to go because once ingest the cyanide its a 97% chance of lethality in the coming 2 minutes.
6) drinking some lighter fluid is a way to ctb but its not a nice ending if you're considering it.
7)you can always OD on drugs(or the byproducts of making them), but i wont discuss that here since thats illegal.
i hope i helped and feel free to ask me any questions

How reliable is nitrogen, is it really just falling asleep and never waking up? Where can I buy it?

 

[weedoge]

In PPeH Nitschke suggest use 150 ml formic acid 85% and 250 ml sulphuric acid 98% for small car.

A small car is about 3,3 cubic meter.
Your room 4.5 * 3,2 * 2,2 = 31,68 cubic meter

You would need almost 10 times the amount for a small car
31,68/3,3=9,6

250 * 9,6 * 0,98 / 0,93 = 2529
150 * 9,6 = 1440

You would need more then 2529 ml sulfuric acid 93% and 1440 ml formic acid 85%. I recommend use as small room as possible. Pour the sulphuric acid into the formic acid. I advice add more then 2529 ml sulphuric acid since it gets less effective in lower concentration.

Formal source
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18363119/

How do you figure you need so much for a small car? 1% volume in air is lethal in minutes. Surely using much higher amounts is just adding more acid into the system for no reason, more acidic fumes. I'm no chemist though.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/formic-acid-sulphuric-acid-method.233/#post-14325

Some earlier posts here were pretty good, @PhilistineEars seemed to know his stuff.

 

[HannibalLector]

How do you figure you need so much for a small car? 1% volume in air is lethal in minutes. Surely using much higher amounts is just adding more acid into the system for no reason, more acidic fumes. I'm no chemist though.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/formic-acid-sulphuric-acid-method.233/#post-14325

Some earlier posts here were pretty good, @PhilistineEars seemed to know his stuff.

There is a video found in resources (bedsideviewing) where carbon monoxide is used in car by Nitschke. In the video he measure the amount of carbon monoxide produced, he claims that he reached more then 2 percent CO in the car during the experiment (his meter maxed out at 20 000 ppm, 2%).

This is the amounts he uses (during the experiment):
*200 ml sulphuric acid 98%
*100-150 ml formic acid 85%

In the PPeH, he documented experiment reaching a peak level of ~3% CO in car. The amounts he suggest in PPeH:
*250 ml sulphuric acid 98 %
*150 ml formic acid 85%

I figured its better to be safe then sorry (i dont think the fumes would be giving much discomfort). Car can have different size, its good have some safety marginals to avoid unnecessary/prolonged suffering. (and i compared with chemistry calculations)

 

[weedoge]

There is a video found in resources (bedsideviewing) where carbon monoxide is used in car by Nitschke. In the video he measure the amount of carbon monoxide produced, he claims that he reached more then 2 percent CO in the car during the experiment (his meter maxed out at 20 000 ppm, 2%).

This is the amounts he uses (during the experiment):
*200 ml sulphuric acid 98%
*100-150 ml formic acid 85%

In the PPeH, he documented experiment reaching a peak level of ~3% CO in car. The amounts he suggest in PPeH:
*250 ml sulphuric acid 98 %
*150 ml formic acid 85%

I figured its better to be safe then sorry (i dont think the fumes would be giving much discomfort). Car can have different size, its good have some safety marginals to avoid unnecessary/prolonged suffering. (and i compared with chemistry calculations)

But how did you come to a number 10 times that recommended? 2% in air is actually more than twice as much CO necessary to knock you out in mere seconds.

Why don't you think the fumes would give "much discomfort"? Sorry to be picky but I like to see sources or at least a reason for even such small claims. I certainly agree being better safe than sorry but to me its almost like you're suggesting people take N 10 times to be better safe than sorry, you know?

 

[weedoge]

How reliable is nitrogen, is it really just falling asleep and never waking up? Where can I buy it?

Yes its this peaceful but you need an exit bag. There's a thread around somewhere

 

[HannibalLector]

But how did you come to a number 10 times that recommended? 2% in air is actually more than twice as much CO necessary to knock you out in mere seconds.

Why don't you think the fumes would give "much discomfort"? Sorry to be picky but I like to see sources or at least a reason for even such small claims. I certainly agree being better safe than sorry but to me its almost like you're suggesting people take N 10 times to be better safe than sorry, you know?

The number times 10
In an scientific article about H2S, a car was assumed to be 3300L (3,3 cubic meter). The room Arak suggested was about 32 cubic meter, thats about ten times the size of the car. Thats why i suggested Arak would need at least ten times the amount of a car for his room. (but i also did more calculations, i just tought what i presented would make sense to most)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18516944

Sulphuric acid fumes
If you are worried about the fumes, you could put some sulphuric acid in a bowl and place it in car to experience it without use the formic acid. So that you can experience it for yourself, and discover if your fear is legit or not.

During the reaction (with formic acid and sulphuric acid). "The sulphuric acid remains chemically unchanged but is diluted by the water released." (PPeH)
Formic acid becomes water and CO.

 

[weedoge]

The number times 10
In an scientific article about H2S, a car was assumed to be 3300L (3,3 cubic meter). The room Arak suggested was about 32 cubic meter, thats about ten times the size of the car. Thats why i suggested Arak would need at least ten times the amount of a car for his room. (but i also did more calculations, i just tought what i presented would make sense to most)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18516944

Sulphuric acid fumes
If you are worried about the fumes, you could put some sulphuric acid in a bowl and place it in car to experience it without use the formic acid. So that you can experience it for yourself, and discover if your fear is legit or not.

During the reaction (with formic acid and sulphuric acid). "The sulphuric acid remains chemically unchanged but is diluted by the water released." (PPeH)
Formic acid becomes water and CO.

Acid without reaction surely isn't going to be the same as acid within the fumes? Again I'm not a chemist but I recall another user here mentioning an acid bath or wash or whatever the name for removing acid from the resulting fumes.

Spot on with the volumes though, sorry about that, didn't realise the size of his room and thought you were just bumping up the car figures for no reason :p have a nice day

 

[Arak]

Okay, summarizing

'
In PPeH Nitschke suggest use 150 ml formic acid 85% and 250 ml sulphuric acid 98% for small car.

A small car is about 3,3 cubic meter.
Your room 4.5 * 3,2 * 2,2 = 31,68 cubic meter

You would need almost 10 times the amount for a small car
31,68/3,3=9,6

250 * 9,6 * 0,98 / 0,93 = 2529
150 * 9,6 = 1440

You would need more then 2529 ml sulfuric acid 93% and 1440 ml formic acid 85%. I recommend use as small room as possible. Pour the sulphuric acid into the formic acid. I advice add more then 2529 ml sulphuric acid since it gets less effective in lower concentration.

Formal source
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18363119/ '

But how did you come to a number 10 times that recommended? 2% in air is actually more than twice as much CO necessary to knock you out in mere seconds.

Why don't you think the fumes would give "much discomfort"? Sorry to be picky but I like to see sources or at least a reason for even such small claims. I certainly agree being better safe than sorry but to me its almost like you're suggesting people take N 10 times to be better safe than sorry, you know?[/QUOTE]

 

[Arak]

Sorry, some issue with the website or just me. It was tring to merge my 'comment' with the quote, so I'll do it this way:

'

I appreciate bringing that up ! The practical issues are important. One could also wonder about the distribution of the gas in the room. In theory you could shield yourself from the gas and wait outside, or you could do it while you're being exposed ...
I'd have to check the calculations again. I suppose one should do a calculation before attempting this (not just 'Nitschke'), while I could try Quora ... About 4.5 litres on total. I just wonder if that would work.'

 

[HannibalLector]

Acid without reaction surely isn't going to be the same as acid within the fumes? Again I'm not a chemist but I recall another user here mentioning an acid bath or wash or whatever the name for removing acid from the resulting fumes.

Spot on with the volumes though, sorry about that, didn't realise the size of his room and thought you were just bumping up the car figures for no reason :p have a nice day

If mixing sulphuric acid and formic acid feels intimidating, mixing very small amounts of them can help you overcome fear of the unknown.

I like your posts weedoge. Have a nice day!

 

[weedoge]

If mixing sulphuric acid and formic acid feels intimidating, mixing very small amounts of them can help you overcome fear of the unknown.

I like your posts weedoge. Have a nice day!

Honestly I'm just repeating what more knowledgeable people have said in the past, as you said can never be too careful and thank you for understanding.

 

[Ssrejisser]

Yes its this peaceful but you need an exit bag. There's a thread around somewhere

I thought I just inhale the gas. I am confused. Why do I need this bag again?

 

[weedoge]

I thought I just inhale the gas. I am confused. Why do I need this bag again?

The gas isn't toxic, you need a pure atmosphere to achieve death. The gas is to replace air since you still need to exchange carbon dioxide out to avoid the hypercapnic response.

Edit: you may want to search the forums or google for "exit bag"

 

[Kingkelly]

Has there been any successful exit bag cases on here or anyone not completed? It would be hard to get the tank and all that. I don't have any way to store it

 

[HannibalLector]

formic acid + phosphoric acid --> carbon monoxide

Many have trouble obtain sulphuric acid, including myself. I think there might be an alternative route. Dehydration of formic acid with easily obtainable phosphoric acid. It could be worth looking into this?

(both sulphuric acid and phosphoric acid are commonly used as dehydration agents)

Would 85% phosphoric acid be effective (for this purpose) in room temperature?

 

[weedoge]

Has there been any successful exit bag cases on here or anyone not completed? It would be hard to get the tank and all that. I don't have any way to store it

Exit bag is one of the oldest methods I think, its tried and tested and very reliable. Do a search on the forums for it, its a method commonly used by the elderly who can't get euthanasia or N.

 

[Arak]

@HannibalLector ,

For me, the mechanics are more of an issue. If I were to combine h2so4 and formic acid, how to actually make it ? What about the dispersal in the room ? I'd need a device to breathe oxygen while doing it, or something like that ...

We don't want brain damage...

 

[HannibalLector]

@HannibalLector ,

For me, the mechanics are more of an issue. If I were to combine h2so4 and formic acid, how to actually make it ? What about the dispersal in the room ? I'd need a device to breathe oxygen while doing it, or something like that ...

We don't want brain damage...

I guess you should mix them in similar fashion someone drinks cyanide or nembutal, firm and steady (not too fast and not too slow). Use gloves and protective glasses. You might wanna put the liquids in a suitable bucket so you can pour it moderately fast. (sulphuric acid is corrosive, so be careful) In a car carbon monoxide levels reach 5000 ppm in 5 minutes (PPeH).

 

[Arak]

@HannibalLector ,

Was thinking of a small room, a car would be more of an issue. I'm not sure about the mechanics/gas distribution.

 

[Boart]

Will keep my eye on this thread

 

[Meditation guide]

You want to inhale a lot of acid vapors? Kind of painful. I heard someone did a podcast while a man did that in his car.
He mentioned it burned his throat and lungs.

 

[Boart]

You want to inhale a lot of acid vapors? Kind of painful. I heard someone did a podcast while a man did that in his car.
He mentioned it burned his throat and lungs.

From the looks of it, hydrogen cyanide seems to kill you instantaneously?

I only have basic chemistry knowledge but it seems to me it's pretty darn good method of suicide: will probably use this tbh!