Method methods by easy to obtain chemicals

[Lifeisatrap]

TLDR: in water under standard temps a quick look at their structures tells me they will not react with eachother.

long version: caffeine as a molecule is stable enough and the nitrogen on the NO2- is not nucleophilic enough(because of the Os pulling electron density away from it) to attack the carbonyl carbon of the ring(the most electrophilic carbon in the molecule), any attack from an oxygen is also not possible since it would make the resulting molecule really unstable and thus unfavorable under standard conditions.however i could not find any study that mixed them and then identified the new compounds in the mixture(if any).

What about mixing it with vodka?

 

[stargazer]

Damn I'd love to (if they are easy to obtain in Australia whether by order or in person) those acids! Now if only I had a car. Can't rent one. Don't live alone.
What could have been (sad face).

 

[stargazer]

Any of these methods sounds great to me, well almost any, the downside is I'm not allowed to ask for things and my posts in the partners mega thread after getting me nowhere.
Maybe I'll have to invent a new method, but that's risk in and of itself. I could fail, hahaha! (The laughter is sad laughter).

Knowing Australia, this place of mine probably has tightly regulated all of those potential methods. Fuck, Australia! :(

 

[chemicalctb]

@chemicalctb ,

2) CO poisoning, just buy H2SO4(sulfuric acid) and HCOOH(formic acid) you can buy them online from anywhere easily, the H2SO4 dehydrates the formic acid and liberates carbon monoxide, mix and heat as much of them as u can in an airtight(closed windows and all) preferrably small room, you will feel sleepy and then never wake up. make sure u are by yourself as it needs about 30mins before you lose conciousness(someone who was posting on a group a couple of years ago did it and was updating us periodically, he didnt mention any problems we just found out from news when he died, so 0 pain, he was from the Netherlands, i guess Limburg or Leiden area if memory serves me right.

I might be able to get H2So4, even though there are restrictions. I don't know, I'd have to be lying. Is there actually an an apropriate procdure for this rather than winging it ? What's the medod, specifics ? Just heating the stuff ... is there an actual description of the procedure/process ?

simple enough just mix them(they are stochiometric so just put equal amounts to not be losing reactants) heat the mixture to ensure a fast reaction and just wait, do it in a small location otherwise you'd have to use more materials.

 

[chemicalctb]

So you are telling me that if I buy lets say 5kg of apples in my local fruit store and save the seed I could make a powder with enough mg of cyanide to ctb?

i dk how many kg, google how much cyanide per seed of your fruit, check how much seeds it would take to get 1.5g(there is a verified death with this amount, the guy from 1992), and then ud know how many apples u need to buy and take their seeds out, weigh the seeds to ensure proper weight to have 1.5g or more of CN, then eat them.

 

[chemicalctb]

So this is what i can buy online. If i take 1.5g of this i'll die?
Should i mix it with water and drink or just straight?
Would there be any internal damage if i fail?

if you can buy it online without being associated with a lab idk, but if you can maje sure its 1.5g of pure (98% purity or more) sodium cyanide then yes u can take them to ctb

 

[chemicalctb]

What about mixing it with vodka?

don't, nitrite will react with the ethanol in your vodka if there is acidity, and you'll get ethyl nitrite, making your free nitrite non existant in solution(caffeine isnt affected though)

 

[Arak]

So this is what i can buy online. If i take 1.5g of this i'll die?
Should i mix it with water and drink or just straight?
Would there be any internal damage if i fail?

How would you possibly buy this online ? I could only think of the dark web. Even then, cyanide seems more suitable for murdering someone than killing oneself so I have some difficulty imagining you could buy it. Does it come on the dark web with reviews 'it worked really well?' Or you'd have to have some offical chemist's license ??

 

[Johnnythefox]

How would you possibly buy this online ? I could only think of the dark web. Even then, cyanide seems more suitable for murdering someone than killing oneself so I have some difficulty imagining you could buy it. Does it come on the dark web with reviews 'it worked really well?' Or you'd have to have some offical chemist's license ??

You can make cyanide from certain fruit pips.

 

[Arak]

simple enough just mix them(they are stochiometric so just put equal amounts to not be losing reactants) heat the mixture to ensure a fast reaction and just wait, do it in a small location otherwise you'd have to use more materials.

Not to be difficult, but do you have a more formal source ?

I mean, do I buy a really large frying pan and heat it up ? .... I don't have the background of a chemist.

 

[chemicalctb]

Not to be difficult, but do you have a more formal source ?

I mean, do I buy a really large frying pan and heat it up ? .... I don't have the background of a chemist.

its ok to ask questions i dont mind at all, even though i already know that they will give carbon monoxide due to extensive organic chemistry knowlege(its really easy though just a dehydration reaction) i found this article for you due to your lack of background in chemistry, and yes a large frying pan does the trick but id rather do it in a pan thats deep.

 

[chemicalctb]

How would you possibly buy this online ? I could only think of the dark web. Even then, cyanide seems more suitable for murdering someone than killing oneself so I have some difficulty imagining you could buy it. Does it come on the dark web with reviews 'it worked really well?' Or you'd have to have some offical chemist's license ??

you can get it using chemical reactions but u need a really good lab and its illegal for me to talk about it since cyanide gas can be a chemical weapon. if you cant buy them online you can get them from seeds(i wrote about it a few posts back) as for the dark web ive never bought anything off of it so i dont know anything about that, if you're buying from there i doubt theyd need to associate you with a research team/university/lab since its the dark web.

 

[pleasethistime]

its ok to ask questions i dont mind at all, even though i already know that they will give carbon monoxide due to extensive organic chemistry knowlege(its really easy though just a dehydration reaction) i found this article for you due to your lack of background in chemistry, and yes a large frying pan does the trick but id rather do it in a pan thats deep.

hi, what about amounts of these acids for the mixture? and there are some % percentage signs on online stores? what what should they be for each one?

 

[HannibalLector]

you can get it using chemical reactions but u need a really good lab and its illegal for me to talk about it since cyanide gas can be a chemical weapon. if you cant buy them online you can get them from seeds(i wrote about it a few posts back) as for the dark web ive never bought anything off of it so i dont know anything about that, if you're buying from there i doubt theyd need to associate you with a research team/university/lab since its the dark web.

You dont need a really good lab to make cyanide. Its fairly easy to make cyanide. You can buy all chemicals at your local hardware stores. Its possible to make cyanide with a steel beaker and a burner. And its not illegal to talk about how to make cyanide. The last months i have been buying chemicals and equipment to make cyanide.

being the chemist in here i'd like to tell you guys about methods to ctb with commonly found chemicals.
the goal is to stop the heart or stop oxygen flow so that the death is not painful.

1) its easy to get a heart attack by consuming caffeine, buy pure powdered caffeine online(its really cheap and available/legal) mix more than 20g of it( the LD50 is 200mg/kg but the more the better, to be sure) and drink it, you'll get a heart attack and ctb.

Cause of death from caffeine overdose is ventricular fibrillation.

as for Cyanide, i assumed people who worked or were associated to labs were the only ones who had access to it, not really sure if you can buy it directly, but you can probably get it from about 100 apples or less(the more the merrier though), just grind their seeds and eat them(the grinded seeds).

Not even expert can get 1-2 gram cyanide from apples, so that wouldnt be worth the effort for amateurs. (not safe)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...isons-that-can-be-cooked-up-in-a-kitchen.html

Unsuccessful ctb with cyanide can cause permanent damage, so i would not recommend play around with apples. Cyanide must be tested as advised in PPeH before use. Pure cyanide in the right dosage is one of the fastest and most reliable ways to ctb according to many independent sources.


chemicalctb, what method are you planning to ctb with?

 

[chemicalctb]

You dont need a really good lab to make cyanide. Its fairly easy to make cyanide. You can buy all chemicals at your local hardware stores. Its possible to make cyanide with a steel beaker and a burner. And its not illegal to talk about how to make cyanide. The last months i have been buying chemicals and equipment to make cyanide.



Cause of death from caffeine overdose is ventricular fibrillation.



Not even expert can get 1-2 gram cyanide from apples, so that wouldnt be worth the effort for amateurs. (not safe)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...isons-that-can-be-cooked-up-in-a-kitchen.html

Unsuccessful ctb with cyanide can cause permanent damage, so i would not recommend play around with apples. Cyanide must be tested as advised in PPeH before use. Pure cyanide in the right dosage is one of the fastest and most reliable ways to ctb according to many independent sources.


chemicalctb, what method are you planning to ctb with?

good point, i stated they needed a good lab just in case(better safe than sorry) because its better to have at least a fume hood when dealing with things that might evolve toxic materials as gas during preparation, also thanks for the info about legality, to be honest i had no idea and didn't want to risk it, even though im not from the US but i have no idea about our laws so i just said better not risk it. as for the apples or other foods, it is extremely difficult but if you can make sure its enough cyanide in them(2mg/kg to be sure).
yep for caffeine it is ventricular fibrillation, i am no doctor of medicine but a quick google search revealed that "Ventricular fibrillation results in cardiac arrest with loss of consciousness and no pulse."
yes unsuccessfully trying to ctb with cyanide is not a fun thing, it does deprive your body of oxygen(hence your brain too) and any non lethal dose will do just as bad as a failed hanging(less painfully though), since the brain will have been deprived of oxygen for a time but not long enough for the person to die.
as for me i want to ctb with carbon monoxide poisoning, the peacefulness of going to sleep and never waking up is the most suitable one for me.

 

[Arak]

its ok to ask questions i dont mind at all, even though i already know that they will give carbon monoxide due to extensive organic chemistry knowlege(its really easy though just a dehydration reaction) i found this article for you due to your lack of background in chemistry, and yes a large frying pan does the trick but id rather do it in a pan thats deep.

Thank you.

But I think you have no idea how difficult it is to buy some of that stuff over here. I could get 1 litre of sulphuric acid, purity 98 %. Formic acid might be less difficult, but this stuff (h2so4) is monitored because it has potential as a precursor and other reasons as well.

What volumes do you need ? To get a large volume (especially h2so4) you'd need to be a company. Unless I've overlooked something, but really there are so many restrictions.

 

[Arak]

You dont need a really good lab to make cyanide. Its fairly easy to make cyanide. You can buy all chemicals at your local hardware stores. Its possible to make cyanide with a steel beaker and a burner. And its not illegal to talk about how to make cyanide. The last months i have been buying chemicals and equipment to make cyanide.



Cause of death from caffeine overdose is ventricular fibrillation.



Not even expert can get 1-2 gram cyanide from apples, so that wouldnt be worth the effort for amateurs. (not safe)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...isons-that-can-be-cooked-up-in-a-kitchen.html

Unsuccessful ctb with cyanide can cause permanent damage, so i would not recommend play around with apples. Cyanide must be tested as advised in PPeH before use. Pure cyanide in the right dosage is one of the fastest and most reliable ways to ctb according to many independent sources.


chemicalctb, what method are you planning to ctb with?

I know the post was not addressed to me, but would you mind explaining to me the process, assuming I could even get the chemicals ? I might be able to purchase a few basic lab 'tools' , but as far as chemicals go a lot is regulated here in Europe. It got worse in 2018.

'You can buy all chemicals at your local hardware stores. Its possible to make cyanide with a steel beaker and a burner. And its not illegal to talk about how to make cyanide. The last months i have been buying chemicals and equipment to make cyanide.' I think I could get a beaker (not sure about a steel one), a burner, but the chemicals. There are not many local hardware stores, and I don't think those have that kind of stuff. maybe that's in the USA ? Here everything tends to be 'safe'.

 

[chemicalctb]

Thank you.

But I think you have no idea how difficult it is to buy some of that stuff over here. I could get 1 litre of sulphuric acid, purity 98 %. Formic acid might be less difficult, but this stuff (h2so4) is monitored because it has potential as a precursor and other reasons as well.

What volumes do you need ? To get a large volume (especially h2so4) you'd need to be a company. Unless I've overlooked something, but really there are so many restrictions.

you wont need too large of a volume i suppose, but you do need a small enclosed space otherwise you will need a large volume, if you're gonna do it in a car or something then 2L should do the trick, maybe in a small enclosed shed 2L would also be good, if its that monitored then you'll find it easier to go with charcoal(i saw a guide about the how-to here somewhere)

 

[HannibalLector]

I know the post was not addressed to me, but would you mind explaining to me the process, assuming I could even get the chemicals ? I might be able to purchase a few basic lab 'tools' , but as far as chemicals go a lot is regulated here in Europe. It got worse in 2018.

Hi Arak, im also from Europe. Lets start with the chemicals you need.

These are all the chemicals you need to manufacture cyanide (the easy way):
*cyanuric acid
*carbon
*sodium hydroxide
*methanol
*sodium bicarbonate

(all the ingredients can be found in your hardware stores, sometimes with a different name)

Before we proceed to make cyanide you should be aware of the following:
*cyanide should be manufactured outside or in fume hood
*cyanide is lethal both when ingested, mixing cyanide with acids creates lethal hydrogen cyanide gas, cyanide is also lethal by dermal exposure (that is if you get cyanide on your skin you will die)

Safety as regards to methanol:
Methanol is highly toxic. Ingestion of even small quantities of methanol can cause blindness; large quantities cause death. Methanol poisoning can also occur by inhalation of the vapors or by prolonged exposure to the skin.

Dont be discourage by the safety stuff, many people handle methanol without any incident, but its still important to know this before you start make your own cyanide.

Finally a word on the legal status. It is probably illegal to make and poses cyanide in most European countries (it could carry harsh sentence). Its important to understand this so you dont get surprised later.

 

[chemicalctb]

the method suggested by hannibal is detailed here:

https://www.911metallurgist.com/blog/how-to-make-cyanide#cyanide-manufacturing

2 other methods exist only if you know what you are doing, also read all the safety precautions before doing the method linked above^, you wanna go on your terms not by accident, have antidotes just in case such as: amyl nitrite, sodium nitrite, sodium thiosulphate and methylene blue.

First method starts with Prussian blue.you would convert the Prussian blue to potassium ferrocyanide, then reduce using an alkali metal like sodium.

Second method im not really sure about it but it should theoretically work. Potassium or sodium hydroxide is melted with urea to produce an alkali cyanate which is reduced to cyanide.

A quick search will give you a step by step for either method, however this is a fundamentally unsafe procedure. It is not good enough to do in a fume hood or outside, the odds of fatally poisoning yourself are excellent to just about dead certain if you try these without knowing what you're doing and taking safety precautions.

 

[Arak]

@HannibalLector , @chemicalctb ,

I've read about the three methods. Thank you. About the 911metallurgist ... quite a story, and I don't have any background in chemistry. I also don't have a blast furnace or crucible, or any lab tools. ' A quick search will give you a step by step for either method, however this is a fundamentally unsafe procedure. It is not good enough to do in a fume hood or outside, the odds of fatally poisoning yourself are excellent to just about dead certain if you try these without knowing what you're doing and taking safety precautions.' Actually not the worst thing that could happen. I'm not sure why not more people make their own cyanide, for whatever purpose ... ?

I'll look into this later.

 

[Suicideisnirvana]

Those aren't at all easier to obtain for me, if the customs seize my Nembutals they'll seize those products too. I wish there was some poison that could be made from products sold in stores.

 

[chemicalctb]

@HannibalLector , @chemicalctb ,

I've read about the three methods. Thank you. About the 911metallurgist ... quite a story, and I don't have any background in chemistry. I also don't have a blast furnace or crucible, or any lab tools. ' A quick search will give you a step by step for either method, however this is a fundamentally unsafe procedure. It is not good enough to do in a fume hood or outside, the odds of fatally poisoning yourself are excellent to just about dead certain if you try these without knowing what you're doing and taking safety precautions.' Actually not the worst thing that could happen. I'm not sure why not more people make their own cyanide, for whatever purpose ... ?

I'll look into this later.

people dont make their own cyanide because they dont want to get themselves killed while making something to kill someone else(99% of the time). in the case where they want to make it to ctb, they want to die but on their terms not by an accident related to them preparing it(which is really high in probability if they dont know what they're doing and are not prepared)

 

[Arak]

I would almost think that @chemicalctb is messing with me ...

That https://www.911metallurgist.com/blog/how-to-make-cyanide#cyanide-manufacturing link ...

Seriously ? Trying to take it as such .... the first 'recipe'

Mixing sodium hydroxide (for a moment assuming I can get that)

With 43 gr of cyanuric acid. Not easy to find, again Europe ! USA appears to be more permissive. Is this something ? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cyanuric-A...qid=1543761076&sr=8-19&keywords=cyanuric+acid

Here is another one: https://www.fishersci.se/shop/products/cyanuric-acid-cya-test-tablets/11342530

It does not say how much these contain, nor if those are pure ! i'd have expected it be restricted when I looked for it. Call the company ???

Heat to 600 degrees Centigrade ... I guess that requires purchasing specialized lab equipment ? It requires more, like stirring and filtering ....
It doesn't say how, I don't have that training of a lab assistant.

Then there is: production of cyanide ... animal matter.
Reverberatory furnace ? Seriously ? Where would I get one ? Then ... still some issues, and fusing with metallic sodium. How ??

There are many of such issues, and I don't have the background to know 'how' do actually carry out all the lab tasks, or where to get everything.
For buying issues, one could use the UK as a reference. One could even question the source, since when are recipes for cyanide posted on the internet these days ...

 

[chemicalctb]

I would almost think that @chemicalctb is messing with me ...

That https://www.911metallurgist.com/blog/how-to-make-cyanide#cyanide-manufacturing link ...

Seriously ? Trying to take it as such .... the first 'recipe'

Mixing sodium hydroxide (for a moment assuming I can get that)

With 43 gr of cyanuric acid. Not easy to find, again Europe ! USA appears to be more permissive. Is this something ? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cyanuric-A...qid=1543761076&sr=8-19&keywords=cyanuric+acid

Here is another one: https://www.fishersci.se/shop/products/cyanuric-acid-cya-test-tablets/11342530

It does not say how much these contain, nor if those are pure ! i'd have expected it be restricted when I looked for it. Call the company ???

Heat to 600 degrees Centigrade ... I guess that requires purchasing specialized lab equipment ? It requires more, like stirring and filtering ....
It doesn't say how, I don't have that training of a lab assistant.

Then there is: production of cyanide ... animal matter.
Reverberatory furnace ? Seriously ? Where would I get one ? Then ... still some issues, and fusing with metallic sodium. How ??

There are many of such issues, and I don't have the background to know 'how' do actually carry out all the lab tasks, or where to get everything.
For buying issues, one could use the UK as a reference. One could even question the source, since when are recipes for cyanide posted on the internet these days ...

the 2 methods i talked about other than the one linked were not to be done if you dont have the background and i did mention that in my post, if you cant aquire what is needed and dont have any idea what you're doing i advised strictly against it, they're not easy even if you have training and a lab, as for the link, yes they would post it online, you'd be surprised that ive learned how to synthesize just about any drug by research for my forensic chemistry course a while back, you can find methods online to make anything, dont be surprised if you find things like this because people can easily copy them from textbooks/scholarly articles onto the internet, unless you're talking about WMDs then that wont be available online because its monitored, also no sane person tries to make tabun or such at home(even if they somehow had the materials and lab) but really who cares about someone making heroin from morphine or making some meth from pseudoephidrine via birch reduction, or as in your case making some cyanide, now try to make it at a large scale and you're gonna have knocks on your door, still you can find all kinds of methods online.

 

[Arak]

@chemicalctb , ah yes, if you have the background of a forensic chemistry course and are in a country that will 'allow' a lot (chemicals, tools) then that makes sense.

Seriously, things in the USA are much more permissive. Hardware stores here ? Almost everything is 'safe'. Well, I could rent a chainsaw, but that wouldn't be my choice ...

 

[chemicalctb]

@chemicalctb , ah yes, if you have the background of a forensic chemistry course and are in a country that will 'allow' a lot (chemicals, tools) then that makes sense.

Seriously, things in the USA are much more permissive. Hardware stores here ? Almost everything is 'safe'. Well, I could rent a chainsaw, but that wouldn't be my choice ...

europe is shit for all those "safety precautions" i can understand the inability to get anything useful easily, i think your best bet is CO poisoning with charcoal, or just check if you can do something with what you can get easily, i can help you if you would like just ask.

 

[Arak]

@chemicalctb , that combination of sulphuric acid with ??? (formic acid ?, it's in one the the threads) to create CO might work if you really know how to do it. I'm not sure if that UK company will sell me several 1 L bottles of 93 % sulphuric acid, but I'd need to know how to practically do it.

As in, details. Let's say I have a room of about 4.5 by 3.2 by 2.2 metres. The amount of the substances, how do I mix it, into what, how fast (won't it explode or knock me out before I'm properly finished). Do I stir it (with what), how will the CO actually fill the room (bottom first, I know) but the rest ? The details ...Is there a formal source ?

 

[HannibalLector]

In PPeH Nitschke suggest use 150 ml formic acid 85% and 250 ml sulphuric acid 98% for small car.

A small car is about 3,3 cubic meter.
Your room 4.5 * 3,2 * 2,2 = 31,68 cubic meter

You would need almost 10 times the amount for a small car
31,68/3,3=9,6

250 * 9,6 * 0,98 / 0,93 = 2529
150 * 9,6 = 1440

You would need more then 2529 ml sulfuric acid 93% and 1440 ml formic acid 85%. I recommend use as small room as possible. Pour the sulphuric acid into the formic acid. I advice add more then 2529 ml sulphuric acid since it gets less effective in lower concentration.

Formal source
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18363119/

 

[chemicalctb]

@chemicalctb , that combination of sulphuric acid with ??? (formic acid ?, it's in one the the threads) to create CO might work if you really know how to do it. I'm not sure if that UK company will sell me several 1 L bottles of 93 % sulphuric acid, but I'd need to know how to practically do it.

As in, details. Let's say I have a room of about 4.5 by 3.2 by 2.2 metres. The amount of the substances, how do I mix it, into what, how fast (won't it explode or knock me out before I'm properly finished). Do I stir it (with what), how will the CO actually fill the room (bottom first, I know) but the rest ? The details ...Is there a formal source ?

sorry for a late reply i was too lethargic to type, get a deep pan, just google "catalytic dehydration of formic acid" you'll find plenty of sources about it(most are scholarly and require special permissions to access, i can get one and send it to you when i get to campus cuz its the weekend now) as for the method just place the H2SO4 and the HCOOH in the pan, now they will react even at room temperature but u need to reaction to go faster, so u heat it up, preferrably to 80 degrees, no need to stir it you're gonna want to be laying down when u ctb, dont wanna go out while standing stirring it. don't worry about anything its easy just like that. as for amounts, 1-2L of each should be enough, a liter of formic acid has about 25 moles at (95%) and 25moles should give 25 moles of CO for each liter which would give 22.4L of CO gas per mole so you should get alot of CO which should be enough depending on the volume of your room, hannibal did the calculation i see, just be close to the pan to inhale higher amounts of CO sooner.