Discussion Living a brave, courageous life.

[Forever Sleep]

I'm always curious (and annoyed) when people call suicide cowardly. Asides from it being a ridiculous idea (to me- seeing how difficult suicide is,) I wonder what they are refering to as the aternative. That continuing to live is the brave thing to do. I'm not saying it can't be of course. I'm not saying I don't admire people who choose to do it. I think many people who are suffering are hanging on for their loved ones. I admire that. It inspires me to do the same. I do admire people who choose to fight in general- I don't necessarily share their optimism/ motivation but I respect it. I hope they win out.

Still- I think it can mean more than that. I think ideally- they REALLY want us to- go out there, face our fears and live some truly astounding life. How many 'normies' even do that though? Not to say it's the 'wrong' thing to do- but- how many people REALLY live life to the max? So many just get stuck in a comfortable-ish rut. It's not just to blame it on 'lazyness'. I think lots of factors influence it- finances, energy, other commitments.

Still- from a personal perspective, it's honestly a weird comparison for me. If I continue to live until a natural death- truly- I'm unlikely to change. All I'm really going to do now is tread water. I'm really not that interested in 'making my mark on the world' now. Those were the dreams of youth. I'm tired now. I know from experience how much work that takes and I feel like I know the nature of this world. It's exploitation at the end of the day. Unless you are good and lucky and ruthless enough to climb to the top- chances are- no matter how well you're doing- someone else is exploiting you. That kind of tarnishes it for me. So- the ambitions of youth are either not really there anymore- or- they've become tarnished with cynicism.

Do they REALLY think a life of doing the minimum to survive is 'courageous'? Do people suffering with depression have the energy to do more than that? I don't know. It's a rambling thread really. I suppose I just think for me- my options require varying amounts of courage. I don't think me personally continuing to just get by is the most courageous route. To REALLY make the effort to change would certainly take courage. I might have been able to summon it up if I thought the end result was either possible or worthwhile. To CTB though- that's going to take a huge amount of courage. All of CTB encompasses unknowns. We pretty much know what we're getting with life- more of the same shit most likely! As someone most eloquently put recently- 'the grass is dead on both sides of the fence.'

 

[Unsure and Useless]

Do they REALLY think a life of doing the minimum to survive is 'courageous'? Do people suffering with depression have the energy to do more than that?

I feel like people who consider the act of continuing to live (despite the exploitation and borderline depressing nature of it) courageous are incorrect. However, this isn't because it's not admirable; instead, it's because the way that they describe why it's admirable is wrong.

Living is the status quo. There's nothing courageous about continuing something granted to you by your biological parents that is too inconvenient for you to end.

Living in spite of the exploitation isn't courageous, it's tenacious. Even though one knows they have a way out, they continue to go forward with their life, to push past the suffering they will feel in order to continue breathing and experiencing everything life has to offer.

This is why continuing to live is admirable. These people are persistent and steadfast on living in a world that is basically meant to break them down.

To REALLY make the effort to change would certainly take courage. I might have been able to summon it up if I thought the end result was either possible or worthwhile. To CTB though- that's going to take a huge amount of courage.

Of course, as you've pointed out, the adjective of courageous goes to the people who have committed or plan to commit CTB. They are the ones who decide to continue with their choice, which goes against the status quo, even though there are aware of multiple uncontrollable variables, possible failures that can result in life-altering conditions, as well as an unknowable result if the attempt succeeds.

Despite what fools may say, the act of killing oneself, of going through one's journey into an unfathomable abyss before it's their time, takes guts.

Regardless of one's stance on suicide, you have to admit: having the courage to end your own life is admirable.

It can even be seen as the ultimate rebellion, but this train of thought is a bit unhealthy. In a world where those in power seek to use you as a cog in a machine that betters their life while yours withers away, you deprive them of a cog by getting rid of yourself completely. You have made yourself immune to being exploited again, in a sense.

 

[brokeandbroken]

People want to feel good about themselves while doing the bare minimum in order to achieve that. They don't necessarily want to be good. People don't want to think about people dying as it scares them. It makes them feel guilty. Much easier to force people to suffer in silence then to do anything. Then when they die act completely shocked that the person they abandoned decided to CTB. They can then claim it is selfish and absolve themselves of any of the guilt. Because while they are alive something can be done once dead nothing they can do. They can move and continue their lives unimpeded. Much more important things to do.

CTB is complex for some it is courageous and some it isn't. For almost all it is to escape suffering. People saying I'd rather be dead then live with the inherent selfishness and fakeness of humanity any longer. CTB to me is ending suffering that cannot be changed and escaping humanity that's generally selfish and awful.