I'm considering, just considering, Pegasos:

[AnnaJaspers]

You are reported.

Terrific. Looking forward to the outcome!

 

[TowerUpright]

Terrific. Looking forward to the outcome!

Can we all take a breather, here??

I see the passion here. And I honestly think FightingSioux is doing his best to dispense information he feels many people would benefit from.

My Dad used to say, if you can't say something nice about someone, don't say anything at all. Let's just step away... Please??

 

[MeltingHeart]

Can we all take a breather, here??

I see the passion here. And I honestly think FightingSioux is doing his best to dispense information he feels many people would benefit from.

My Dad used to say, if you can't say something nice about someone, don't say anything at all. Let's just step away... Please??

That was a reasonable & kind message. Sorry about the nasty and sarcastic response you got. Seemed kind of a little uncalled for. Oh well.
I don't understand where all the vitriol came from in this thread. When all OP did was literally post some information from an actual website. As far as I can deduce I can see nothing that seems like troll behaviour from them & certainly nothing that seems pro-life either. Maybe things can too easily be misconstrued online as there is no room for nuance & tone of voice. But the expression the pot called the kettle black did spring to mind.

 

[fightingsioux]

Anyway....

I'm still communicating with Pegasos, still seriously considering it. I think that it's an interesting organization, and something that many people seem to have interest in.

Let's continue our civilized discussion.

 

[Ark]

Have to agree with Meltingheart and a few others. I am actually appreciative of everything the OP has shared and researched to share in this thread. I have not found a single line that would make me think the OP is a troll or pro lifer. Actually I have read a few posts from the OP trying to end the issue humbly. The attacks against the OP seem personal in nature to me and seem to have no basis in his posts in thus thread. Thank you for the effort to learn all this and share it with us @fightingsioux

 

[ThingWithFeathers]

Dear pro-trolling person (yes, you),

This forum is pro-choice only when it comes to choosing between the right to live and the right to complete suicide. When it comes to showing decency and respect to each other as members, we do not have a choice, we are required to be pro-decency and pro-respect. When multiple people are politely requesting you to be nicer to the OP then maybe they are all right that you aren't living up to the standards of behavior that the freedom to be in this forum demands.

fightingsioux is a respectable member of this community and has always contributed to the benefit of the pro-choice ideology. I am sure that with a little introspection, as a pro-choice advocate yourself, you would find that you are seriously hurting the strength of our community by causing unnecessary commotion in this intelligent conversation repeatedly.

Please understand that neither fightingsioux nor anyone has any chip on their shoulder against you, so you need not strike us with your preemptive troll-bombs, rather the etiquette requires that you don't attempt to derail our train of thought. Suicide is a serious matter and we would rather like to exchange our thoughts about it in peace.

With love,
your pro-choice fellow

 

[fightingsioux]

Have to agree with Meltingheart and a few others. I am actually appreciative of everything the OP has shared and researched to share in this thread. I have not found a single line that would make me think the OP is a troll or pro lifer. Actually I have read a few posts from the OP trying to end the issue humbly. The attacks against the OP seem personal in nature to me and seem to have no basis in his posts in thus thread. Thank you for the effort to learn all this and share it with us @fightingsioux

I thank you. I do my best to be honest, friendly, respectful. Sometimes I tease people a bit, but in good fun.

I've posted at least twice about my lifelong advocacy of assisted dying, my membership in Exit International and my strong belief in their philosophy: "Every adult of sound mind has the right to implement plans for the end of their life so that their death is reliable, peaceful and at a time of their choosing. Exit believes that control over one's life & death to be a fundamental human right."

I literally don't know what else to say.

Interruptions will happen, let's try and resume our discussion of the topic. I'm very interested in hearing what people think about Pegasos, and the entire subject of VAD (voluntary assisted dying). By the way, just for me, I prefer that term to "assisted suicide".

Thanks again for your kind support.

 

[Ark]

I have been reading Pegosos site lately also. I would never be able to afford it but applaud the fact they seem to be trying to be more accepting than others. Maybe that is to get more paying customers but honestly who cares? If it makes it so more people can have their dream CTB than I appreciate them regardless.

 

[fightingsioux]

Dear pro-trolling person (yes, you),

This forum is pro-choice only when it comes to choosing between the right to live and the right to complete suicide. When it comes to showing decency and respect to each other as members, we do not have a choice, we are required to be pro-decency and pro-respect. When multiple people are politely requesting you to be nicer to the OP then maybe they are all right that you aren't living up to the standards of behavior that the freedom to be in this forum demands.

fightingsioux is a respectable member of this community and has always contributed to the benefit of the pro-choice ideology. I am sure that with a little introspection, as a pro-choice advocate yourself, you would find that you are seriously hurting the strength of our community by causing unnecessary commotion in this intelligent conversation repeatedly.

Please understand that neither fightingsioux nor anyone has any chip on their shoulder against you, so you need not strike us with your preemptive troll-bombs, rather the etiquette requires that you don't attempt to derail our train of thought. Suicide is a serious matter and we would rather like to exchange our thoughts about it in peace.

With love,
your pro-choice fellow

Thank you so much for that from-your-heart post.

I have been reading Pegosos site lately also. I would never be able to afford it but applaud the fact they seem to be trying to be more accepting than others. Maybe that is to get more paying customers but honestly who cares? If it makes it so more people can have their dream CTB than I appreciate them regardless.

No question that they're a business, but I honestly believe that everyone there--from the doctors to the rest of the staff--genuinely want to help a certain population in need.


They are trying to be as accepting as they can, to me the big difference between them and the 9 or so states in the U.S. that have legalize some form of assisted dying is that at Pegasos one does not have to be terminally ill.

Another point is that I've found that many American have the mistaken idea that Europe is some sort of "Easy Death Disneyland". Of course, this is not true. Switzerland has many laws, rules & regulations about this, and just like here in the U.S., they have to work within the framework of those laws.

I have been reading Pegosos site lately also. I would never be able to afford it but applaud the fact they seem to be trying to be more accepting than others. Maybe that is to get more paying customers but honestly who cares? If it makes it so more people can have their dream CTB than I appreciate them regardless.

No question that they're a business, but I honestly believe that everyone there--from the doctors to the rest of the staff--genuinely want to help a certain population in need.


They are trying to be as accepting as they can, to me the big difference between them and the 9 or so states in the U.S. that have legalized some form of assisted dying is that at Pegasos one does not have to be terminally ill.

Another point is that I've found that many American have the mistaken idea that Europe is some sort of "Easy Death Disneyland". Of course, this is not true. Switzerland has many laws, rules & regulations about this, and just like here in the U.S., they have to work within the framework of those laws.

 

[Asta]

@fightingsioux - Thanks for all your research on Pegasos and for sharing the info!
@smole - That's sounds like a great plan - I wish you success!

 

[Lotus1818]

Terrific. Looking forward to the outcome!

Well that's the end of her

 

[fightingsioux]

.

I have

.

First contact Pegasos, tell them about your situation. Then contact Exit, tell them.

 

[a_strange_day]

I'm not sure I feel it's okay to involve another person in killing me, even if they're willing to. Is having to push my own little IV wheel enough to convince me I'm really doing it on my own? Hm. Maybe?

Interesting view. Maybe it's just my cynical view talking here but In this case I personally wouldn't care about involving another person since they are very well paid to do it. I mean it's not like I'm asking some small town doc to do it for free and out of compassion for me. Dignitas - Life Circle and now Pegasos = 7500$ for a glass of pentobarbital so...

But that's just me being an oddball. It sounds like a good place, even though it's awfully expensive. Can we write and ask if they'd consider a bulk rate if we all sign up together? 8]

3 deaths for the price of 2. Some have already started so why not.

 

[Berlin76]

It's also a balancing act with one of my misgivings about using a service like this one: I'm not sure I feel it's okay to involve another person in killing me, even if they're willing to. Is having to push my own little IV wheel enough to convince me I'm really doing it on my own? Hm. Maybe?

But that's just me being an oddball. It sounds like a good place, even though it's awfully expensive. Can we write and ask if they'd consider a bulk rate if we all sign up together? 8]

You always have the option with any organization to take the nembutal yourself. They just bring the powder and mix it with water and give it to you .

It's also a balancing act with one of my misgivings about using a service like this one: I'm not sure I feel it's okay to involve another person in killing me, even if they're willing to. Is having to push my own little IV wheel enough to convince me I'm really doing it on my own? Hm. Maybe?

But that's just me being an oddball. It sounds like a good place, even though it's awfully expensive. Can we write and ask if they'd consider a bulk rate if we all sign up together? 8]

You always have the option with any organization to take the nembutal yourself. They just bring the powder and mix it with water and give it to you .

 

[tom90]

"Does Pegasos accept young, depressed or suicidal people?
Pegasos does not accept young people with depression or other severe mental illness. Rather, Pegasos will refer such applications to counselling services such as those published on the Pegasos website."

Let's say that I can afford go to Switzerland, but I don't understand this. What kind of people do they accept?

I don't want to send application and pay 5000€ for nothing.

 

[Soul]

First off, I'm appalled that my post about my own goofball semi-misgivings about using a service like Pegasos led to @AnnaJaspers attacking @fightingsioux. That's crazy.

Interesting view. Maybe it's just my cynical view talking here but In this case I personally wouldn't care about involving another person since they are very well paid to do it. I mean it's not like I'm asking some small town doc to do it for free and out of compassion for me. Dignitas - Life Circle and now Pegasos = 7500$ for a glass of pentobarbital so...

I agree. My notion that I might prefer a DIY exit is just something I ponder sometimes. The reasons listed by @AnnaJaspers in favor of the form of VAD offered by Pegasos and Dignitas are certainly valid and I hope I didn't offend anyone considering that route. I'd consider it too if I could afford it.

Hence my proposal we request a bulk rate for monthly Group Outings of SanSui members. @Roger, I believe we'd find far more fun ways to pass the time than old glossies in a waiting room. 8]

 

[Idorus]

"Does Pegasos accept young, depressed or suicidal people?
Pegasos does not accept young people with depression or other severe mental illness. Rather, Pegasos will refer such applications to counselling services such as those published on the Pegasos website."

Let's say that I can afford go to Switzerland, but I don't understand this. What kind of people do they accept?

I don't want to send application and pay 5000€ for nothing.

They do not accept the mentally ill, that is clear. But what do they mean - bit reading through their site here - that those should "work together" with them? Is there hope for them when they get the advice to first undergo ECT for example so that they can then finally be qualifed for their service? (like in my country)

You can lose up to 1500.

 

[fightingsioux]

They do not accept the mentally ill, that is clear. But what do they mean - bit reading through their site here - that those should "work together" with them? Is there hope for them when they get the advice to first undergo ECT for example so that they can then finally be qualifed for their service? (like in my country)

You can lose up to 1500.

Best to email them directly, they are very responsive. Don't beat around the bush, ask straight questions about your concerns, you'll get straight answers.

 

[acute]

I'm also looking into Pegasos.

I don't know if they would accept me because I'm "only" 26 years old and a condition that will not kill me in the future (tinnitus).

 

[astro]

So they don't accept young people with mental illness but they accept people with mental illness in general? What is the age limit for you to qualify as young?

 

[Berlin76]

So they don't accept young people with mental illness but they accept people with mental illness in general? What is the age limit for you to qualify as young?

In general your brain grows till you are 25 years old so also your personality. After that age everything set.

 

[MaybeMaybeKnot]

It does seem like a good organization...but expensive and so out of reach for many who could use it. There should be something like it here in the U.S., available to all adults of a sound mind, at a reasonable cost. We're still hung up on the Puritan religious ethic that some non-existent, invisible, mythological entity forbids you from taking your own life!

Yeah. We both know the right's fetish for legislative morality.

 

[HopingForAnEnd]

Hey, new user here whose been lurking for a while and wanted to share my experience with Pegasos.

I've been looking at Swiss assisted dying organizations in the past but their wording made it very clear that I wouldn't be able to utilize them, due to my age and having "only" mental illnesses.

Catching this thread and reading through their site and FAQ I was getting hopeful that this could be my chance for a safe and peaceful death, but sadly I was rejected. I wrote them and told them about my situation, I'm 27 years old and have had anxiety for all my life, been depressed for around 15 and had crippling OCD for around 8 years. Been through many institutions, "professionals" and taken my fair share of medication with no improvement. Also told them about knowing that suicide is the only way out for me and that I've done a lot of research to make sure they realize I'm making a rational choice. I got an answer within a day that sadly crushed my hopes:

Hi Patrick,
Thank you for your email.
Given your relatively young age and mental illness, we are sorry but Pegasos would not be able to assist you for a VAD at the current time.
Instead we would be obliged to refer you to counselling.
We are very sorry we cannot help you. We are under tremendous political pressure to help young people to live on, rather than providing assistance to die.
Kind regards,
Peg

I felt pretty sad, disappointed and a bit angry about the blunt rejection. I know that these kinds of organizations are under pressure and it's not their fault that the laws are so backwards, but when I read through their page it felt like they would be different. It's not like I'm 18 years old and had depression for a year, I've been struggling with this stuff all my life so it's not a spur of the moment thing, so I thought my situation would be enough, maybe at least them asking me for more information/trying to work something out with me. As it stands though it feels like they got my hopes up for nothing.

Just to be clear: I'm not saying people with a similar situation to me should give up on them and not even bother. Writing them an email on their "contact" tab is free, no need for registration or payment or anything, and I got an answer within a day. It's just that their site might give certain people (young with mental illness, like me) false hope and wrong expectations, and being rejected after getting ones hope up is pretty cruel. I hope they change the wording on their site in the future to better reflect peoples chances with them.

As for me, this experience made me realize that waiting for some external savior is not gonna work out and I gotta take this into my own hands. It really seemed too good to be true, and it was.

 

[not4us]

wanted to share my experience with Pegasos.

thank you for sharing, it is very helpful

 

[Susan Caswell]

It's the new Swiss voluntary assisted dying organization, closely associated with Exit International.

Yes, it's expensive, for many--if not most--prohibitively so. I'm lucky, I can afford it. Their service is $10,000; with airfare and other expenses, would be about $12,000. I've copied some info from their website that I thought might interest people here.

What is Pegasos?
Pegaos Swiss Association is a voluntary assisted dying (VAD) organization based in Basel, Switzerland. Pegasos believes that it is the human right of every rational adult of sound mind, regardless of state of health, to choose the manner and timing of their death.
Cost of VAD

Service
TOTAL	10,000
Assessments and administration	3,000
VAD Appointment, incl. Medical Consultation's	4,300
Funeral Services etc.	2,150
Post VAD Administration	550

Do you need to be terminally ill to come to Pegasos?
No, it is not necessary to be terminally ill to be accepted for a VAD at Pegasos.

Does Pegasos accept young, depressed or suicidal people?
Pegasos does not accept young people with depression or other severe mental illness. Rather, Pegasos will refer such applications to counselling services such as those published on the Pegasos website.

Do you accept young people?
At Pegasos we accept applications from adults over the age of 18 years only.

Do you accept people with mental illness?
Mental illness is a vexed issue. At Pegasos we believe that you can still have mental capacity even if you suffer from long term depression. The most important thing is to tell us of your mental illness and then we can work with you for the best outcome.

Does Pegasos help 'well' people to die?
Pegasos believes that for a person to be in the headspace of considering ending their lives, their quality of life must be qualitatively poor. Pegasos accepts that some people who are not technically 'sick' may want to apply for a VAD. But this does not mean the person is 'well'. Professor David Goodall was one of these people. He was not sick but his eye sight was failing him, as was his mobility. Old age is rarely kind. The decision to end one's life is an intensely personal one. Pegasos makes every effort to understand fully the unique circumstances of everyone who makes contact with us.

How exactly does a person die at Pegasos?
Pegasos generally uses the intravenous method of Nembutal administration. This involves having a cannula inserted into one's arm and a solution of the lethal drug fed into your body from a 'line' that is controlled by a 'tap'. However, if preferred, a person can also have the option of taking a small drink. In this case, anti-emetic (anti-vomiting) drugs will also need to be taken. Other approaches are also available. These can be discussed with Pegasos once the VAD application is approved.

How long does it take to die?
After the sodium pentobarbital starts flowing intraveneously, the person goes to sleep usually within a few seconds and dies quickly afterwards. If a person takes the Nembutal as a drink, the process is a bit longer.

Can I choose the actual method for my VAD?
Yes, Pegasos is all ears when it comes to a person's individual preferences. The options are an intravenous infusion or a small drink.

How do I control the actual VAD myself?
If you have elected intravenous administration of the Nembutal, you need to be able rotate the small wheel that opens the IV line that will be attached to the cannula in your arm. If you have weakness in your fingers or limited movement in your hands and and arms, then Pegasos has developed an ingenious device that requires a simple bump to start the infusion. This can be operated with one's arm, body or even feet. A slight turn of the head also works and even with your tongue. If you have chosen to drink the drugs, the least you will need to be able to do is swallow. If you do not have movement of your arms, you must be able to suck the liquid through a straw. If you do have movement of your arms then this method should present no problems for you.

If I choose to drink the drugs, is there a risk that I will vomit?
As there is always a risk of vomiting with anything we put in our mouths, to ensure that vomiting does not affect your VAD, Pegasos will provide highly-effective, anti-emetic drugs.

What happens after I die?
After your VAD, Pegasos will call the authorities who will attend our clinic. These officials will be friendly and very sensitive to the fact that you have just lost someone you loved very much. Once the authorities are satisfied that your death was voluntary and was initiated by you, Pegasos will call the funeral home who will come and collect your body. Your ashes will be available five days later. Your ashes can be either mailed home to your family or collected by your designated contact person.

Thank you for all this I am hoping they will help me urgently now ive deafening tinnitus 4 noises both ears 2 years 5 months cant live with it keep hoping it will stop or go to level i can stand never thought id have to do this i was so healthy well and happy. Have you applied does it take long to be approved

 

[LivingToLong]

I'd like to believe they'd accept me (in good physical health, debatable mental health but certainly nothing diagnosed) but I somehow don't think they would. It seems a reasoned preference to die wouldn't be quite enough.

 

[tom90]

It seems that they are no different from any other associations.
No wonder that their faq is so hard to understand.

 

[fightingsioux]

Thank you for all this I am hoping they will help me urgently now ive deafening tinnitus 4 noises both ears 2 years 5 months cant live with it keep hoping it will stop or go to level i can stand never thought id have to do this i was so healthy well and happy. Have you applied does it take long to be approved

Applied and accepted, making plans now.

Every person is different, each with their unique circumstances. You'll get clearer, more definite answers if you email them directly with all questions. They're prompt and friendly with their replies, kind and understanding, you'll usually deal with the same real human being--not some automated reply.

Best of luck.

 

[epic]

Applied and accepted, making plans now.

You got accepted to Pegasos ?

 

[Jean4]

Applied and accepted, making plans now.

Every person is different, each with their unique circumstances. You'll get clearer, more definite answers if you email them directly with all questions. They're prompt and friendly with their replies, kind and understanding, you'll usually deal with the same real human being--not some automated reply.

Best of luck.

Congratulations!! So you made your decision. I thought it was the right decision if one had the finances.