Thank you both
@Cloud Busting and
@UsagiDrop for replying to me. I really appreciate it.
First gonna reply to
@UsagiDrop
Thank you for asking us, even though it seems like you're going through a tough time yourself. I'm hanging in there so I'm doing okay, although I kind of relate to what you said earlier, I'm pretty exhausted by depression right now.
I see. Being exhausted by depression sucks and is painful. Do you know what caused the depression to happen? Either way, I hope you get better from it soon and find happiness.
First of all, I wanna say that you are not some incompetent and shitty thing. You're a person that's struggling to play the hand you've been dealt, because unfortunately, this game of life isn't fair. Regardless of that though, I think any of those things would be hard to deal with for even the most well adjusted normie; not having any meaningful/fulfilling relationships, not having a job and not being able to support oneself, not finding happiness, satisfaction or even contentment in life, those are all tough things to go through. For you, there are other things compounding it as well, creating a unique situation that nobody should blame you for struggling with.
Hmm, I get what you mean but is being an incompetent and shitty thing mutually exclusive to struggling with a bad hand I've been dealt? Sure, when I was a kid, maybe it wasn't my fault for being unable to handle things as I should have received more care from parents but, as I'm now an adult, I have to take responsibility to help myself... and I'm not, at least not actively. What I do is just passive. But, yes, I do imagine that those normies would be suicidal too if they were to experience a life like mine
There's nothing wrong with or about you and I hope that you will come to be softer with yourself. There are a lot of things in life that we just can't tackle alone, so you don't have to "save yourself." I think it's like pulling yourself out of a ditch; you will have to do most of the heavy lifting to climb out, but it's so much easier and much more possible with people on the outside that are also helping to pull you up by that rope. That's why community is important, so, I'm really happy you've found your way here, and welcome to the thread!
There's something wrong with everybody as perfection is impossible. How can there be nothing wrong with me? I'm flawed like everybody else albeit I may have slightly more flaws than them. Though the part about having a community to help makes me feel more relieved. I think I internalised the whole "you have to save yourself" quote way too much and way too literally. Thank you all for being here and for providing support to us all
I think we talk a lot about cycles in here, all of us must be stuck in one of them, one way or another. I can definitely understand the whole laziness into depression never ending whirlpool of doom thing because I go through that a lot too with cleaning and maintaining jobs.
It really sucks. Even if I were to get a job, the problem now would be to maintain it. I feel like we'll always be stuck in a cycle of some sort
Is there a reason, other than the laziness and feeling incompetent, that you think you can't improve? And if you don't mind answering, what areas do you think you need to improve in? From your post I'm getting that you want to improve in terms of self esteem, having relationships with others, and finding a job to support yourself, but perhaps there are other areas? I think both of those things you talked about boil down to working on putting yourself out there, which is hard when you don't have the self-esteem to do it, and I know that from experience right now because the job hunt is eating me alive. But sadly, although this answer is one we never want to hear (or at least I don't lol), the only way to stop a cycle is to break out of it and try something different. I know you feel like you can't take the baby steps, but why is that?
Hmm, I'm not even too sure if there are other reasons. Maybe I'm not motivated enough? I'm sure there is an answer I have but my mind just doesn't have access to it right now. As for the areas I need to improve in, that's more straightforward for me to answer. Short answer, I need to improve in being an actual human. Long answer, I need to improve with gaining skills for independence (such as life skills), I need to improve my socialising skills by consuming more media that I could use to talk about, by stopping being too anxious to speak, to speak slower (as I speak way too quickly for people to understand me) and to stop stuttering a lot. I also need to improve on my anhedonia and find some sort of interest that I could rely on. I also need to improve resilience as I give up way too easily, I also need to improve on my speed at how I do things. I'm way too slow in general and I'd spend 3 hours on a task that most people could easily spend just 1 hour on.
I don't even know how to break out of this cycle. The only way I can think of is interacting with random people in my lectures but that isn't even a little step to me but rather a massive one. I'm that fucked. I don't even see little steps that I could take
I think you took a baby step already by reaching out and posting in here; you're attempting to make a connection with others and you're asking for help and support. That is already a great thing! I'm happy that you felt safe to do that.
Thank you so much. I appreciate that. I can't dispute this
Now to reply to
@Cloud Busting
It's easier to focus on what we've done wrong or haven't done rather than focus on what we've done right. This is why I'm trying to write daily accomplishment lists (although I haven't been good at keeping up on them. I'm not declaring my inconsistency a failure tho. Making some here and there is better than not making any at all, even if daily lists are the true goal.) That you pointed out you had the energy to vent and seek support is a great sign!
That... is really true wow. Do you know why we're like this? I've noticed this trend in real life too as, for example, if people had a negative experience at a restaurant, they're more likely to write a negative review but, for those who had a good experience, they'd just move on with their day. I didn't even think about it until you mentioned it. Okay.. daily lists are a good idea. I think I should start making one too
People process things differently. What's easy for some is hard for others. That you have enough insight to identify your problems in the first place indicates competency, I think.
I've only partially identified my problems though. I feel like there's a lot more nuance to me than I brought out. But I'm not too sure. Maybe I'm subconsciously thinking that I got more problems than I actually have so that my issues as a whole could be valid
If pinpointing the origin of your depression helps you, go for it. For me it's a wild goose chase that gets me nowhere. I no longer care what caused my depression. Identifying my triggers so I can work on them as they arise and prevent future relapses is my personal focus. I cannot promise that will help you. I'm just sharing what currently works for me.
Hmm, I don't think I'd ever fully find out why I'm depressed. What matters now is that I am depressed. The whole trigger thing isn't applicable to me as my depression is constant instead of it going and coming back repeatedly
I have clinical anxiety, reoccurring major depression, bpd, and ocd. I used to have regular panic attacks but have learned to handle them enough to no longer qualify for panic disorder, though they still pop up occasionally. I also have heaps of trauma from my childhood and chronic low self-esteem. It sucks.
Wow, that's a lot to handle. Congrats on fixing, or nigh fixing the panic disorder tho. I wish I could do that too. But, yeah, it really does suck that we have a lot of mental issues to go through. But hopefully we get through it.. we're here after all
My last nervous breakdown was incredibly rough. I cannot live like that whatsoever, so I feel you, even if our issues are different. It's either recovery or ctb for me. I have no other options.
I relate to that. I think my ideal situation is where I recover early and then ctb as I'm about to reach old age where my body decays and is fragile... well more fragile than current me who is also fragile. I don't think I can recover 100% as fixing my current issues would lead to other issues arising but maybe, just maybe, I could recover somewhat. Hopefully you all recover too
Not everyone possesses the level of self-awareness you have. I'm impressed. I know how frustrating it can be to have cognizance of your problems yet feel hopeless or helpless to change them. Exposure therapy is hard and painful. It took me years of practice and lots of effort to muster up the will to do it for it to be effective for me. In my case I was lucky to have support. You don't have a support network to help you expose yourself to your fears, so it's especially rough in your case. I hope you can find a solution one day, and that this space is a safe place for you to brainstorm and vent.
Me and self awareness feels like an oxymoron. Exposure therapy does seem good but I don't even know where to start with it. It's like you said, I don't have a support network (not even family that I could rely on) so it's difficult. I've been through quite a bit of mental health worksheets that I could find online and most of them recommend to talk to an old friend or something. But I don't even have that. I hope I find a solution too though I know that it's unlikely for this solution to just appear in front of me magically. I have to actively search for it
Rejection is devastating. In the past, I've given up applying because I kept getting rejected and felt so defeated. Then I would beat myself up for being lazy and feeling sorry for myself and giving up so easily. lol. The self-hate cycle is never ending. Total domino effect.
This is one hell of a domino effect indeed. I've gave up too but I need to stop giving up and try again.. but ugh it's too difficult lol
I'm not a professional and possibly lack the experience and qualifications to make such an assessment, but are you sure you are being realistic about your ability to overcome your weaknesses? If not, it sounds like low self-esteem would apply. That's up for you to determine though, as I do not know you. Also, social skills aren't always acquired naturally for many reasons. I'd say a lack of social skills is becoming more and more robust among the youth due to technological advancements. It's getting easier and easier to reside as a hermit these days.
Hmm that's a tough question to answer as some sort of ego says that I should be competent enough to overcome my weaknesses. But I don't think I- I don't know. It's more so that I think of myself as incompetent. I don't know if I actually am. Though, since I've failed to even get in a position where I try harder to work on myself, perhaps that gives an indication that I may be worthless? I don't know and I can't know until I try my best and still fail. Even if a lack of social skills is amplifying as the generations pass, I still think their social skills are better than mine. I mean, at least the majority of them makes friends or acquaintances with one another during school. I never made an irl friend or acquaintance during my entire life. It's why I never used social media such as instagram or snapchat yet
This is so relatable. Do you think it's self-sabotage in your case? It mostly certainly is for me.
Self sabotage, hmm? Yeah, I think it is. It's more like of a self fulfilling prophecy
I don't think I relate to this actually. I don't self loathe as there is no logical reason why I should. When I say I'm pathetic to do stuff, I say that based on how I do nothing all day and just rot in my room all day. I don't think it's self loathing
I get so focused on my failures that it pushes me lower, and then I have no energy to do anything. Hence the cycle repeats.
Relatable. This is where the daily accomplishment list could help
Breaking the cycle is hard. First, you have to believe you deserve to recover. How to do that? Sadly, I have no practical advice. Realizing the reasons I thought I deserved to die did not reflect reality was my epiphany that I don't. It just happened on accident, honestly.
I deserve to recover but I also deserve to ctb whenever I want to as my body belongs to me in the end. I don't know why I'd believe that I don't deserve to recover. I deserve recovery because I can't think of a set of criteria or scenarios in where somebody doesn't deserve to recover
One thing that helps me is radical self-acceptance, which is the idea that you ought to be kind to yourself, no matter what. Instead of should-ing yourself for not accomplishing things, or beating yourself for being in a bad place, why not meet yourself where you're at? If you're feeling that low you can't get out of bed, give yourself compassion, or just ride the wave of painful emotions. Impermanence is a thing. Everything is a constant, constantly changing. Never forget that. Accept you're just not energetic today, and allow yourself to feel that way. It's hard, but it gets easier with time.
I've indulged in self acceptance as, once again, there is no reason not to. People in the world are cruel and there are only a few kind people around like you and everybody else here. I have to be kind to myself because logic dictates so. Nonetheless, unlike the "deserve to recover" thing above, this is easy to not abide to as I feel shitty when I'm behind on studies again and I feel like I'm pathetic for not studying. Studying is just an example that occurred to me recently, there are others too of course. Impermanence is fine. But when I miss out weeks of studies or spend weeks not improving myself, it becomes less impermanent and more of a concern, so much so to where i feel shitty again for not working on my issues earlier. Hmm, this question feels strange but just how long is impermanence anyway? If you were to quantify it, what would you say?
Anhedonia is a hell I wouldn't wish on my own worst enemy. What's the point in living if nothing in life gives you pleasure? Existing as an empty husk isn't living, is it?
Precisely. It's just surviving and it sucks
Have you considered seeking outside help? If you don't have access (waiting lists are obscenely long in many places atm) or cannot afford it, no one can fault you for that. If you don't want to take a risk because it doesn't always work, that's fair too.
I have. I'm currently referred for therapy but, like you said, waiting times are super long. I'm actually therapy critical tbh. I don't think that this outside help would help. But, hey, since I'm already referred to them, I may as well do it and then it'd be apparent that they don't really help. I'm in the UK and, well, the mental health services here are absolute shit. I have to get better without relying on them
Maybe look into vocational rehab. My autistic sister landed a temporary gig that way. Temp agencies can also help and often times, a seasonal position can lead into a permanent offer.
I don't even know if the UK has a vocational rehab. Also, I don't even know if I can get a seasonal position to begin with. As of right now, I don't think I can as I got no work experience as well as no skills either
Thank you both
@Cloud Busting and
@UsagiDrop for replying to me. I really appreciate it.
First gonna reply to
@UsagiDrop
Thank you for asking us, even though it seems like you're going through a tough time yourself. I'm hanging in there so I'm doing okay, although I kind of relate to what you said earlier, I'm pretty exhausted by depression right now.
I see. Being exhausted by depression sucks and is painful. Do you know what caused the depression to happen? Either way, I hope you get better from it soon and find happiness.
First of all, I wanna say that you are not some incompetent and shitty thing. You're a person that's struggling to play the hand you've been dealt, because unfortunately, this game of life isn't fair. Regardless of that though, I think any of those things would be hard to deal with for even the most well adjusted normie; not having any meaningful/fulfilling relationships, not having a job and not being able to support oneself, not finding happiness, satisfaction or even contentment in life, those are all tough things to go through. For you, there are other things compounding it as well, creating a unique situation that nobody should blame you for struggling with.
Hmm, I get what you mean but is being an incompetent and shitty thing mutually exclusive to struggling with a bad hand I've been dealt? Sure, when I was a kid, maybe it wasn't my fault for being unable to handle things as I should have received more care from parents but, as I'm now an adult, I have to take responsibility to help myself... and I'm not, at least not actively. What I do is just passive. But, yes, I do imagine that those normies would be suicidal too if they were to experience a life like mine
There's nothing wrong with or about you and I hope that you will come to be softer with yourself. There are a lot of things in life that we just can't tackle alone, so you don't have to "save yourself." I think it's like pulling yourself out of a ditch; you will have to do most of the heavy lifting to climb out, but it's so much easier and much more possible with people on the outside that are also helping to pull you up by that rope. That's why community is important, so, I'm really happy you've found your way here, and welcome to the thread!
There's something wrong with everybody as perfection is impossible. How can there be nothing wrong with me? I'm flawed like everybody else albeit I may have slightly more flaws than them. Though the part about having a community to help makes me feel more relieved. I think I internalised the whole "you have to save yourself" quote way too much and way too literally. Thank you all for being here and for providing support to us all
I think we talk a lot about cycles in here, all of us must be stuck in one of them, one way or another. I can definitely understand the whole laziness into depression never ending whirlpool of doom thing because I go through that a lot too with cleaning and maintaining jobs.
It really sucks. Even if I were to get a job, the problem now would be to maintain it. I feel like we'll always be stuck in a cycle of some sort
Is there a reason, other than the laziness and feeling incompetent, that you think you can't improve? And if you don't mind answering, what areas do you think you need to improve in? From your post I'm getting that you want to improve in terms of self esteem, having relationships with others, and finding a job to support yourself, but perhaps there are other areas? I think both of those things you talked about boil down to working on putting yourself out there, which is hard when you don't have the self-esteem to do it, and I know that from experience right now because the job hunt is eating me alive. But sadly, although this answer is one we never want to hear (or at least I don't lol), the only way to stop a cycle is to break out of it and try something different. I know you feel like you can't take the baby steps, but why is that?
Hmm, I'm not even too sure if there are other reasons. Maybe I'm not motivated enough? I'm sure there is an answer I have but my mind just doesn't have access to it right now. As for the areas I need to improve in, that's more straightforward for me to answer. Short answer, I need to improve in being an actual human. Long answer, I need to improve with gaining skills for independence (such as life skills), I need to improve my socialising skills by consuming more media that I could use to talk about, by stopping being too anxious to speak, to speak slower (as I speak way too quickly for people to understand me) and to stop stuttering a lot. I also need to improve on my anhedonia and find some sort of interest that I could rely on. I also need to improve resilience as I give up way too easily, I also need to improve on my speed at how I do things. I'm way too slow in general and I'd spend 3 hours on a task that most people could easily spend just 1 hour on.
I don't even know how to break out of this cycle. The only way I can think of is interacting with random people in my lectures but that isn't even a little step to me but rather a massive one. I'm that fucked. I don't even see little steps that I could take
I think you took a baby step already by reaching out and posting in here; you're attempting to make a connection with others and you're asking for help and support. That is already a great thing! I'm happy that you felt safe to do that.
Thank you so much. I appreciate that. I can't dispute this
Now to reply to
@Cloud Busting
It's easier to focus on what we've done wrong or haven't done rather than focus on what we've done right. This is why I'm trying to write daily accomplishment lists (although I haven't been good at keeping up on them. I'm not declaring my inconsistency a failure tho. Making some here and there is better than not making any at all, even if daily lists are the true goal.) That you pointed out you had the energy to vent and seek support is a great sign!
That... is really true wow. Do you know why we're like this? I've noticed this trend in real life too as, for example, if people had a negative experience at a restaurant, they're more likely to write a negative review but, for those who had a good experience, they'd just move on with their day. I didn't even think about it until you mentioned it. Okay.. daily lists are a good idea. I think I should start making one too
People process things differently. What's easy for some is hard for others. That you have enough insight to identify your problems in the first place indicates competency, I think.
I've only partially identified my problems though. I feel like there's a lot more nuance to me than I brought out. But I'm not too sure. Maybe I'm subconsciously thinking that I got more problems than I actually have so that my issues as a whole could be valid
If pinpointing the origin of your depression helps you, go for it. For me it's a wild goose chase that gets me nowhere. I no longer care what caused my depression. Identifying my triggers so I can work on them as they arise and prevent future relapses is my personal focus. I cannot promise that will help you. I'm just sharing what currently works for me.
Hmm, I don't think I'd ever fully find out why I'm depressed. What matters now is that I am depressed. The whole trigger thing isn't applicable to me as my depression is constant instead of it going and coming back repeatedly
I have clinical anxiety, reoccurring major depression, bpd, and ocd. I used to have regular panic attacks but have learned to handle them enough to no longer qualify for panic disorder, though they still pop up occasionally. I also have heaps of trauma from my childhood and chronic low self-esteem. It sucks.
Wow, that's a lot to handle. Congrats on fixing, or nigh fixing the panic disorder tho. I wish I could do that too. But, yeah, it really does suck that we have a lot of mental issues to go through. But hopefully we get through it.. we're here after all
My last nervous breakdown was incredibly rough. I cannot live like that whatsoever, so I feel you, even if our issues are different. It's either recovery or ctb for me. I have no other options.
I relate to that. I think my ideal situation is where I recover early and then ctb as I'm about to reach old age where my body decays and is fragile... well more fragile than current me who is also fragile. I don't think I can recover 100% as fixing my current issues would lead to other issues arising but maybe, just maybe, I could recover somewhat. Hopefully you all recover too
Not everyone possesses the level of self-awareness you have. I'm impressed. I know how frustrating it can be to have cognizance of your problems yet feel hopeless or helpless to change them. Exposure therapy is hard and painful. It took me years of practice and lots of effort to muster up the will to do it for it to be effective for me. In my case I was lucky to have support. You don't have a support network to help you expose yourself to your fears, so it's especially rough in your case. I hope you can find a solution one day, and that this space is a safe place for you to brainstorm and vent.
Me and self awareness feels like an oxymoron. Exposure therapy does seem good but I don't even know where to start with it. It's like you said, I don't have a support network (not even family that I could rely on) so it's difficult. I've been through quite a bit of mental health worksheets that I could find online and most of them recommend to talk to an old friend or something. But I don't even have that. I hope I find a solution too though I know that it's unlikely for this solution to just appear in front of me magically. I have to actively search for it
Rejection is devastating. In the past, I've given up applying because I kept getting rejected and felt so defeated. Then I would beat myself up for being lazy and feeling sorry for myself and giving up so easily. lol. The self-hate cycle is never ending. Total domino effect.
This is one hell of a domino effect indeed. I've gave up too but I need to stop giving up and try again.. but ugh it's too difficult lol
I'm not a professional and possibly lack the experience and qualifications to make such an assessment, but are you sure you are being realistic about your ability to overcome your weaknesses? If not, it sounds like low self-esteem would apply. That's up for you to determine though, as I do not know you. Also, social skills aren't always acquired naturally for many reasons. I'd say a lack of social skills is becoming more and more robust among the youth due to technological advancements. It's getting easier and easier to reside as a hermit these days.
Hmm that's a tough question to answer as some sort of ego says that I should be competent enough to overcome my weaknesses. But I don't think I- I don't know. It's more so that I think of myself as incompetent. I don't know if I actually am. Though, since I've failed to even get in a position where I try harder to work on myself, perhaps that gives an indication that I may be worthless? I don't know and I can't know until I try my best and still fail. Even if a lack of social skills is amplifying as the generations pass, I still think their social skills are better than mine. I mean, at least the majority of them makes friends or acquaintances with one another during school. I never made an irl friend or acquaintance during my entire life. It's why I never used social media such as instagram or snapchat yet
This is so relatable. Do you think it's self-sabotage in your case? It mostly certainly is for me.
Self sabotage, hmm? Yeah, I think it is. It's more like of a self fulfilling prophecy
I don't think I relate to this actually. I don't self loathe as there is no logical reason why I should. When I say I'm pathetic to do stuff, I say that based on how I do nothing all day and just rot in my room all day. I don't think it's self loathing
I get so focused on my failures that it pushes me lower, and then I have no energy to do anything. Hence the cycle repeats.
Relatable. This is where the daily accomplishment list could help
Breaking the cycle is hard. First, you have to believe you deserve to recover. How to do that? Sadly, I have no practical advice. Realizing the reasons I thought I deserved to die did not reflect reality was my epiphany that I don't. It just happened on accident, honestly.
I deserve to recover but I also deserve to ctb whenever I want to as my body belongs to me in the end. I don't know why I'd believe that I don't deserve to recover. I deserve recovery because I can't think of a set of criteria or scenarios in where somebody doesn't deserve to recover
One thing that helps me is radical self-acceptance, which is the idea that you ought to be kind to yourself, no matter what. Instead of should-ing yourself for not accomplishing things, or beating yourself for being in a bad place, why not meet yourself where you're at? If you're feeling that low you can't get out of bed, give yourself compassion, or just ride the wave of painful emotions. Impermanence is a thing. Everything is a constant, constantly changing. Never forget that. Accept you're just not energetic today, and allow yourself to feel that way. It's hard, but it gets easier with time.
I've indulged in self acceptance as, once again, there is no reason not to. People in the world are cruel and there are only a few kind people around like you and everybody else here. I have to be kind to myself because logic dictates so. Nonetheless, unlike the "deserve to recover" thing above, this is easy to not abide to as I feel shitty when I'm behind on studies again and I feel like I'm pathetic for not studying. Studying is just an example that occurred to me recently, there are others too of course. Impermanence is fine. But when I miss out weeks of studies or spend weeks not improving myself, it becomes less impermanent and more of a concern, so much so to where i feel shitty again for not working on my issues earlier. Hmm, this question feels strange but just how long is impermanence anyway? If you were to quantify it, what would you say?
Anhedonia is a hell I wouldn't wish on my own worst enemy. What's the point in living if nothing in life gives you pleasure? Existing as an empty husk isn't living, is it?
Precisely. It's just surviving and it sucks
Have you considered seeking outside help? If you don't have access (waiting lists are obscenely long in many places atm) or cannot afford it, no one can fault you for that. If you don't want to take a risk because it doesn't always work, that's fair too.
I have. I'm currently referred for therapy but, like you said, waiting times are super long. I'm actually therapy critical tbh. I don't think that this outside help would help. But, hey, since I'm already referred to them, I may as well do it and then it'd be apparent that they don't really help. I'm in the UK and, well, the mental health services here are absolute shit. I have to get better without relying on them
Maybe look into vocational rehab. My autistic sister landed a temporary gig that way. Temp agencies can also help and often times, a seasonal position can lead into a permanent offer.
I don't even know if the UK has a vocational rehab. Also, I don't even know if I can get a seasonal position to begin with. As of right now, I don't think I can as I got no work experience as well as no skills either
Edit: omg, I got scared that this site was going to crash and that everything I wrote would be gone. Thankfully it isn't gone
Until I reach any sort of long term plateau of shittiness, I have reason to believe that I'm capable of recovery.
[spoiler/]
