I still have two questions about amitriptyline on my heart ❤

[Kera]

Hello,

as a Otto regularconsumer, I have limited access to prescription drugs for ctb.

SN is no longer an option for me. I only have amitriptyline as dragees (coated tablets).

So I wanted to take propranolol with amitriptyline as well as domperidone, zopiclone and Tavor.

I take domperidone 24 hours before.
24g Propranolol crushed (finely ground) with water.

Amitriptyline is the problem. I wanted to take amitriptyline as a booster because I don't have verapamil.

According to my research, coated tablets must not be crushed because their coating protects the stomach lining. If this coating is no longer intact, the tablet dissolves in the stomach and not in the small intestine. The active ingredient would be destroyed in the stomach and thus become ineffective.

Some active pharmaceutical ingredients used in medicines react very sensitively to acids. On contact with gastric acid, these substances begin to decompose. This is not desirable in every respect. The coating of the coated tablets is made of shellac, for example, and ensures that the medicine passes through the stomach and only develops its effect in the intestine.

My dragées are coated with shellac, sugar etc.

Now the intended use is different.
I'm concerned that the active substance will go to waste or be destroyed in the stomach when the mortar is used. And thus the amitriptyline is ineffective.
Do you see it the same way?

In case I can't crush amitriptyline (5g, 100 dragées), I learned from a user:
Pills are not just about the drug, but also about some fillers added to the drug. And if you take enough of them, these fillers form a solid ball in your stomach called a bollus.

Wozz states:
Sometimes a very large amount of tablets needs to be taken. 6 g of antidepressant would be 240 tablets of 25 mg each. It is therefore advisable to grind them finely and mix them with pudding or yoghurt.

Sometimes capsules or coated tablets are prescribed. The former can be opened and their contents scattered. Coated tablets cannot be crushed or opened; they must be swallowed whole with yoghurt or pudding.

Düber replaces pudding with applesauce.

Yes, now I'm a bit confused?

Would 100 dragées also already lead to a bolus, whether with or without applesauce?

If so, how many dragees would be safe?

Or is only 24g propranolol without amitriptyline enough?

I wanted still to swallow 20 Zopiclone (150mg) film tablets and 4 Tavor (4mg) whole.

I am not an expert. Even though I have done a lot of research, in the end there are still a few questions? unanswered. I can't ask the doctor or pharmacist. I would be very grateful for any answers!

 

[toofargone6969]

That does seem like a fuckton of pills and could definitely form the masses you're talking about. I think its best to crush them into powder to avoid that. I'm not sure of your other questions but it's likely the crushed extended release pills will just hit you faster. Need to do more research if you can. That seems like a fuck ton of propranolol. Maybe Lower the amount if mixing with ami. The sleeping pills could be useful but maybe just enough to really knock out. I think a high amount is good for OD but too much can lead to vomiting and internal damage potentially. I'd do some more reading on the ami method and prop method.

 

[Wants-To-End]

According to my research, coated tablets must not be crushed because their coating protects the stomach lining. If this coating is no longer intact, the tablet dissolves in the stomach and not in the small intestine. The active ingredient would be destroyed in the stomach and thus become ineffective.

but, i think its impossible to swallow that many tablets, Even PPeH Book asks to crush the Amitriptyline Tablets before Taking it (or) " do you planned for any other way " ? , i would like to know

 

[Kera]

That does seem like a fuckton of pills and could definitely form the masses you're talking about. I think its best to crush them into powder to avoid that. I'm not sure of your other questions but it's likely the crushed extended release pills will just hit you faster. Need to do more research if you can. That seems like a fuck ton of propranolol. Maybe Lower the amount if mixing with ami. The sleeping pills could be useful but maybe just enough to really knock out. I think a high amount is good for OD but too much can lead to vomiting and internal damage potentially. I'd do some more reading on the ami method and prop method.

but, i think its impossible to swallow that many tablets, Even PPeH Book asks to crush the Amitriptyline Tablets before Taking it (or) " do you planned for any other way " ? , i would like to know

Thank you very much for your answers :)

Yes, that's right, it's a lot of pills.

Originally I only wanted to take propranolol as a monotoxication.

But mixed cocktails are supposed to be more toxic. Hence propranolol as the main substance. The tablets, finely ground, as a powder in a glass of water.

Ami is supposed to enhance the effect of propranolol. Amis have a thick sugar layer, are not sustained-release tablets, actually not suitable for crushing, as already explained above. And that's where opinions differ.

The amitriptyline in coated form are from a German pharmaceutical industry. Here I'm afraid that they don't have as toxic an effect as they did 15 years ago, and that's why they're in coated form and not as tablets. And if I crush the tablets now.....!?

Otherwise, my thoughts were:
Swallowing 50 Ami coated tablets whole
or propranolol without Ami??

 

[John Ryder]

Here I'm afraid that they don't have as toxic an effect as they did 15 years ago, and that's why they're in coated form and not as tablets. And if I crush the tablets now.....!?

Would this not imply crushing would increase the toxic effect, which is what you want? I mean I know you and I talked about this and you gave your reasoning on the ami dragees, but the very fact ami is available as uncoated tablet would suggest bypassing the shell by mortaring wouldn't be an issue for the proper effect. After all it's the same med inside. Not to mention crushing is the only reliable way to avoid the bolus risk. I hope you're able to figure it out Kera. It's frustrating

 

[Kera]

Would this not imply crushing would increase the toxic effect, which is what you want? I mean I know you and I talked about this and you gave your reasoning on the ami dragees, but the very fact ami is available as uncoated tablet would suggest bypassing the shell by mortaring wouldn't be an issue for the proper effect. After all it's the same med inside. Not to mention crushing is the only reliable way to avoid the bolus risk. I hope you're able to figure it out Kera. It's frustrating

Thank you very much for your detailed reply and your efforts :) I am sorry that you feel upset.

It looks like I asked too many details. I just wanted to get other opinions. It could yes be that someone is familiar with biochemistry/pharmacy.

It's not uncommon for a drug addict to know more about mixed toxicities than a pharmacist.

I would always follow a proven guide and wouldn´t change or add anything, if I could.

 

[QueenOfSpades]

I've also read Jessica Düber's ebook "Selbstbestimmtes Sterben" and remember that she advises NOT to crush dragees and swallow them as a whole. Wouldn't it be too risky to ignore this? I hope I'll get crushable Amitriptyline pills as this will be my method too.

 

[John Ryder]

Thank you very much for your detailed reply and your efforts :) I am sorry that you feel upset.

Oh, not upset at all. Sorry if you got that impression, I know English isn't your first language

 

[Kera]

Oh, not upset at all. Sorry if you got that impression, I know English isn't your first language

Every now and then my mobile phone corrects what I type. It suggests something else and takes it over if I'm not paying attention. Instead of being frustrated, is then upset. Which is what I am then ;) I'll have to pay attention to that again in the future. Sorry

I've also read Jessica Düber's ebook "Selbstbestimmtes Sterben" and remember that she advises NOT to crush dragees and swallow them as a whole. Wouldn't it be too risky to ignore this? I hope I'll get crushable Amitriptyline pills as this will be my method too.

Thank you very much :) Hmm, I thought so too. That's why she recommends swallowing the dragees whole with applesauce in the case of a very large amount.
But one hopes that is not the case. Accordingly, it could be that the German pharmacy deliberately produces dragees to make suicide more difficult.
Whether Düber, Wozz or Lings, (PPH I don't know) talks about the bolus. And I see that as a big risk.

 

[Kera]

but, i think its impossible to swallow that many tablets, Even PPeH Book asks to crush the Amitriptyline Tablets before Taking it (or) " do you planned for any other way " ? , i would like to know

-> Because already both my meds Reached 25 grams, Will adding 5 more grams of Meds in to it cause Problem

Still propranolol as main substance with amitriptyline.

Now I happen to read in another thread of yours that the total dose of all drugs over 25g are a risk! I haven't heard anything about that yet. Can you tell me where you got this information from?

 

[Wants-To-End]

Still propranolol as main substance with amitriptyline.

Okay, i got it

I've also read Jessica Düber's ebook "Selbstbestimmtes Sterben" and remember that she advises NOT to crush dragees and swallow them as a whole. Wouldn't it be too risky to ignore this? I hope I'll get crushable Amitriptyline pills as this will be my method too.

I don't Understand, I already purchased my Ami-tablets consist of 18 grams Amitriptyline, brand name "Tryptomer", they all Film-Coated, so all of them are not suitable for CTB ? , or I have to swallow all 300 tablets in full size, without crushing ?

Would this not imply crushing would increase the toxic effect, which is what you want? I mean I know you and I talked about this and you gave your reasoning on the ami dragees, but the very fact ami is available as uncoated tablet would suggest bypassing the shell by mortaring wouldn't be an issue for the proper effect. After all it's the same med inside. Not to mention crushing is the only reliable way to avoid the bolus risk. I hope you're able to figure it out Kera.

That's what exactly i am thinking

 

[Kera]

I don't Understand, I already purchased my Ami-tablets consist of 18 grams Amitriptyline, brand name "Tryptomer", they all Film-Coated, so all of them are not suitable for CTB ? , or I have to swallow all 300 tablets in full size, without crushing ?

I didn't want to make anyone feel insecure.
The film-coated tablets are suitable for ctb. Otherwise Svend Lings would not have mentioned them in his list of medicines. Wozz, Lings and Düber point out that coated tablets are not divisible. They have to be swallowed whole.
I got the hint about the divisibility of the film-coated tablet, yes or no, from various sources such as pharmacy, etc.

John: "Doesn't that mean that crushing them would increase the toxic effect,"
I rather think not - it's the dose that makes the poison.
But dividing or mortaring (crushing) tablets changes the release of the active ingredient. When used for other purposes, this is an advantage because it accelerates the effect.
I see the problem more here: The coating protects the stomach lining as well as from light, air and moisture. If this coating is no longer intact, the tablet dissolves... Loss of effect and stomach problems can be the result.

Please excuse me for being too precise!!!! But, after all, it is a matter of suffering or death!

 

[gap]

I didn't want to make anyone feel insecure.
The film-coated tablets are suitable for ctb. Otherwise Svend Lings would not have mentioned them in his list of medicines. Wozz, Lings and Düber point out that coated tablets are not divisible. They have to be swallowed whole.
I got the hint about the divisibility of the film-coated tablet, yes or no, from various sources such as pharmacy, etc.

John: "Doesn't that mean that crushing them would increase the toxic effect,"
I rather think not - it's the dose that makes the poison.
But dividing or mortaring (crushing) tablets changes the release of the active ingredient. When used for other purposes, this is an advantage because it accelerates the effect.
I see the problem more here: The coating protects the stomach lining as well as from light, air and moisture. If this coating is no longer intact, the tablet dissolves... Loss of effect and stomach problems can be the result.

Please excuse me for being too precise!!!! But, after all, it is a matter of suffering or death!

Forgive me but I don't understand, if you do ctb do you care about something that the tablets can create stomach difficulties?
Not being an English native speaker maybe I don't understand well, I insist because this is my method AMI + ev. PROPRANOLOL and I don't understand what the problem is in breaking them or dissolving the tablets?

 

[Kera]

Forgive me but I don't understand, if you do ctb do you care about something that the tablets can create stomach difficulties?
Not being an English native speaker maybe I don't understand well, I insist because this is my method AMI + ev. PROPRANOLOL and I don't understand what the problem is in breaking them or dissolving the tablets?

I am not a native English speaker either.
Yes, I would very much like to ask Wozz, Lings and Düber, from whom I have heard that dragées are to be swallowed whole.

Breaking or dissolving the tablets is not the problem. It is really only about dragées. I have already commented on this several times in other threads. You can do your own research on it. But it is primarily about the effectiveness