I hate the notion that having kids is something that must happen

[LastDayOnEarth]

Not only that but as cruel as it sounds, not everyone deserves to have kids, not everybody deserves to bring life into the world. Some people are failures and should never be given the chance to reproduce.

In different times, not everyone would be given the chance, I wish my parents never had a chance to have me

 

[starboy2k]

dumbasses can have a child, but it takes intelligent and nurturing parents to raise them in the fuckass world

 

[SDB]

dumbasses can have a child, but it takes intelligent and nurturing parents to raise them in the fuckass world

Brilliant parents can produce offspring bad parents can make amazing offspring its kore complex than that

 

[Dejected 55]

It should always be personal choice. Some people have kids when they shouldn't... other people don't have kids but would have been great parents. Often you can't even tell, because people who seem like decent people are shit at raising kids... and people you might think of as shit people actually do a good job of raising kids. Nobody knows... but we do know if everyone stopped having kids, then humanity dies out in a couple of generations. And the less people who have kids, the more likely the shit parents are the ones who have them on average.

 

[ginadu]

I didn't want them. I didn't have them

 

[Bishop]

Your body your choice

 

[witchcraft]

Childhood was the last time I was happy. Yes, I am aware even that is fortunate, not a universally shared experience.

I don't think I will ever be happy again. I feel as though I was set-up, primed for insurmountable disappointment. For a while I was inculcated by the responsibility / duty / find-your-purpose grifters, until I discovered that it simply wasn't sustainable. I either didn't realize it or repressed the realization, but responsibility / duty / purpose does not substitute happiness, nor did it provide me with happiness. Burned out on that.

The closest I've got to feeling like I did in childhood was while I was in university. That's because it was actually an insulated environment, even if it's dressed to seem more mature or grown-up.

If life were a masquerade, I've seen behind the mask of enough people, overheard enough whispers in private to know what people are really like, and what this is really all about. I cannot unknow it, I cannot unsee it.

The idealist in me wishes that I'd have kids and they would grow up successful, adapt readily to the changes of maturing and have an overall good time in the world. But there's no way to guarantee this. You can try your hardest to be the best parent you possibly can, to not repeat the mistakes of your own parents or the other parents around you, and your children can still end up like me or other people on this forum.

dumbasses can have a child, but it takes intelligent and nurturing parents to raise them in the fuckass world

Yup, plenty of people having kids that shouldn't. Plenty of seriously abusive and manipulative people in relationships. Thoughtless, careless people having eleventy children, which they expect to raise each other or be raised by the village, the nanny state, and an educational system that is more like a daycare where very little learning happens.

 

[FuneralCry]

It truly is so terrible, I see it as so terrible and cruel how humans cause all this dreadful unnecessary torture by imposing this existence that there was never a need for at all with no limit as to how much agony one can feel.

This existence should just never be imposed and it's the most terrible tragedy how it was especially as never suffering at all was perfection, to suffer in this torturous, dreadful existence truly is an abomination and I'll just always see it as a mistake to suffer in this existence, all that existence ever does is cause suffering, it's so horrible how humans actually choose to force the pain and torture of existing onto others.

 

[darksouls]

society is perverse and disgusting,
I would never bring children into this sick world

 

[Pluto]

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

warning I talk about pain and torture in the post below. but this is reality and I didn't create pain but life the brain and those that impose life do create pain

picture red hot glowing coils on a stove 1000 degrees Fahrenheit

what's worth placing ur hand on those coils and holding it there 10 seconds?

to me nothing

think about accidentally touching an extremely hot stove. u pulled back instantly the pain was so bad.

your hand was in contact with the hot stove for only 1/4 of a second.

but imagine if you couldn't pull back. if ur hand was forcefully held for 3 seconds, 10 seconds, a minute? the pain would increase exponentially every 1/4 second

now visualize ur whole skin placed on a scalding hot steel griddle as in the brazen bull torture, 1000 degrees Fahrenheit

what is worth even 3 seconds of that extreme torture?

is watching a video or eating food worth even 10 seconds of such intolerable pain? I don't think so . what about 10 minutes whites is the same about of time . so pain outweighs pleasure by many times . to me by a billion times.

to me nothing is worth even 1 second of that torture

its the brain creating this excruciating pain

how can something be good or desired that can cause u to suffer such unbearable pain

people think they can imagine how bad the brazen Bull torture is but they can't

pain is a billion times worse than people know or remember , including me

what right goes anyone have to impose a torture chamber = the brain onto any human? or to gaslight or brainwash others into doing so.

The Brazen Bull: A Cruel Instrument of Ancient Greek Torture and Execution

BY THE ARCHAEOLOGIST EDITOR GROUP

www.thearchaeologist.org

imo I don't know who could be happy if they knew the truth about how bad pain is . and how one could fall into a trap of unbearable pain. add to that I'm a constantly needy slave , a brain which is a torture chamber, an animal that has to work all the time only to exist under threat of extreme torture, just a bag of cells but can suffer pain so bad it's a trillion times worse than I can imagine

 

[K14~♡]

I wanna share my thoughts too but idk how to phrase it in way that won't make me sound anti-natalistic ToT

I don't believe having children is wrong, but some arguments just makes me mad. "Yes they're stuck in poverty and can't even afford their own daily needs and will most likely make their kids work for them at an early age, but they should still be allowed to have children." "Yea they have a severe hereditary disability/illness that affects their ability to care for themselves and needs a caregiver; it's likely for their child to be born with it too but they should still be allowed to have kids." "The parents live with this difficulty but they're happy, their child can live happily too." "Bringing life into this world is a joyful and beautiful thing, no one should be deprived of that."
They're only thinking of the parents, not the life they'll bring in

 

[marilosingit]

all i ever want in this life is a daughter but i would never ever ever let that happen, if i was to get pregnant i would ctb. i can see my possible future self as the cool alternative mom gentle parenting my babies to be amazing empathetic people, however this world isn't built for gentle empathetic people. i would know. there's too much mental/chronic illness/cancer etc as well as addicts in my family. i feel anti-selfish for knowing i could never really have that life, i keep my daughter safe by keeping her inside of me forever. many others my age i know of are having babies right now and the idea makes me sick, how could you bring another sentient being into a world that isn't made for anyone but nepo pedos?? it's sick

 

[Spit On My Grave]

every nation in the world has the same goals

 

[RussianBusCatcher]

Not only that but as cruel as it sounds, not everyone deserves to have kids, not everybody deserves to bring life into the world. Some people are failures and should never be given the chance to reproduce.

In different times, not everyone would be given the chance, I wish my parents never had a chance to have me

hi. i want to ask a question and i apologize because it doesnt match with your thread but still, could you tell me a little about your hanging setup. like what is the width of your rope, what material is this, do you place anything between rope and neck. im hanging soon and i need to collect as much info as possible. sorry for any mistakes

 

[Spit On My Grave]

Women are programmed to celebrate their first children genetically and socially

 

[Off_Switch]

Your body your choice

Not a choice for the child being created though. That is the cruel aspect of it. Unless the child has good luck. But most don't. They just get born into an average life of suffering.

 

[divinemistress87]

I think I'm becoming an Antinatalist

 

[Dejected 55]

Not a choice for the child being created though.

I always hate this explanation. How would the child get a choice? IF the child did get a choice it would have to be from God or some other entity outside of humanity, and not the parents... because the parents don't get a choice over what child they get either. Do you think the parents of sadistic serial killers/rapists got a choice over having that child?

Nobody gets a choice over being born or not. It just seems like an absurd assertion to me. Blame your parents for what they say/do to you or blame society for the same... but blaming them for your mere existence is a stretch. The flip side of this could also be argued since all the children that are never born because they were aborted didn't get a choice to be born. Maybe the next Einstein or genius or the kindest person ever was aborted but didn't get a choice to stay alive.

The assertion cuts both ways.

And, people can and should decide whether or not they want to have kids. I have zero problems with anyone who doesn't want to have kids. I'm just saying maybe the arguments for or against kids should be kept to things we actually get to decide and not the fantastical notion of being asked if we want to live or die before we are born and since we aren't asked that (as far as we know) blaming the parents.

Consider... maybe your soul/spirit was given the choice to be born or not... with the caveat that once you decide to be born, you will have no memory from before your birth. So, maybe you did choose.

 

[Off_Switch]

I always hate this explanation. How would the child get a choice? IF the child did get a choice it would have to be from God or some other entity outside of humanity, and not the parents... because the parents don't get a choice over what child they get either. Do you think the parents of sadistic serial killers/rapists got a choice over having that child?

Nobody gets a choice over being born or not. It just seems like an absurd assertion to me. Blame your parents for what they say/do to you or blame society for the same... but blaming them for your mere existence is a stretch. The flip side of this could also be argued since all the children that are never born because they were aborted didn't get a choice to be born. Maybe the next Einstein or genius or the kindest person ever was aborted but didn't get a choice to stay alive.

The assertion cuts both ways.

And, people can and should decide whether or not they want to have kids. I have zero problems with anyone who doesn't want to have kids. I'm just saying maybe the arguments for or against kids should be kept to things we actually get to decide and not the fantastical notion of being asked if we want to live or die before we are born and since we aren't asked that (as far as we know) blaming the parents.

Consider... maybe your soul/spirit was given the choice to be born or not... with the caveat that once you decide to be born, you will have no memory from before your birth. So, maybe you did choose.

...and I "hate" the "God", divine "entity" and "spirit" explanations just as much, which just might be the most baseless arguments lacking empirical evidence of them all.

Personally, I base my belief on what I see and experience in this real world conscious existence. I take into consideration my lack of recollection of pre-existence. If the divine wants to change my mind, it needs to do it a tangible way that I can see and experience. Prove that it is there. So far, that hasn't happened. And I am sure many here would say the same.

When I see two NYC crackheads having a baby, I don't think myself, "oh that crack baby might be the next Nobel Prize winner." Or "good thing everyone is having children. This increases the odds that the next Einstein will be born", even though there's like 1 million or more lives of suffering created for every 1 Einstein."

Parents may not be able to control whether their child is a serial killer, but they can definitely control the chances of having any kind of bad or suffering children by...simply not having children.

People that continue to be in denial of the real probability of being born into a life of suffering never cease to amaze me. Especially if they have found their way here to SS.

 

[Dejected 55]

...and I "hate" the "God", divine "entity" and "spirit" explanations just as much, which just might be the most baseless arguments lacking empirical evidence of them all.

Personally, I base my belief on what I see and experience in this real world conscious existence. I take into consideration my lack of recollection of pre-existence. If the divine wants to change my mind, it needs to do it a tangible way that I can see and experience. Prove that it is there. So far, that hasn't happened. And I am sure many here would say the same.

When I see two NYC crackheads having a baby, I don't think myself, "oh that crack baby might be the next Nobel Prize winner." Or "good thing everyone is having children. This increases the odds that the next Einstein will be born", even though there's like 1 million or more lives of suffering created for every 1 Einstein."

Parents may not be able to control whether their child is a serial killer, but they can definitely control the chances of having any kind of bad or suffering children by...simply not having children.

People that continue to be in denial of the real probability of being born into a life of suffering never cease to amaze me. Especially if they have found their way here to SS.

I'm an atheist, so I don't believe in God or afterlife or before-life... I just put that in there as an option for people who do. But... given your non-belief in God... how do you propose you could have been given a choice to be born then? I mean, if you don't believe in God or spirit/soul beyond life on Earth... there's literally no way you could be given a choice to be born or not, right? So... on the one hand you say you base your belief only on things you can see and experience, but on the other you seem to want there to be an existence before birth wherein you could have been given a choice, no?

So... given you and I must believe similarly that you have no existence before life and no existence after death... you can't possibly be given a choice to be born or not. There's no way possible to do that... so you get what you get, same as everyone else.

And... those crackheads you don't want to have kids... that's fair, I suppose, to suggest they might not be good parents... but then do you know their parents? A lot of people on the street didn't grow up homeless, but rather grew up in a home with one or two parents. Maybe their parents did things wrong, maybe they didn't... but you might be surprised, their parents might have been people you would say were "fit" to be parents... but then their kids grow up to be crackheads you think aren't deserving of having kids.

People don't work like you think.. Pretty people don't have only pretty kids. Ugly people don't have only ugly kids. Smart people don't have only smart kids. Dumb people don't have only dumb kids. Genetics is a funny thing that you can't predict some of the outcomes... then of course the nature vs nurture argument comes into play.

It's a crapshoot. Many of us wish we were never born... but IF you could have asked us somehow magically before birth, what would we have to go on? At that stage how would we know whether or not we would have a good life until we are here failing or succeeding? There's no way to know at that point in our lives. So you'd just be guessing who gets to be born and who doesn't based on nothing.

And, yeah... the world is kind of crap... that's why I want to die too... but I draw the line at saying someone is irresponsible for bringing people into the crap world because as I've said before... we don't know who might have a shot at making things better in the future. It might also get worse... but randomly deciding who gets to have kids or not isn't likely to be a good thing because arguably those of us here to make that decision are part of the crap world so maybe our judgement on who gets to live or not isn't infallible, no?

 

[LastDayOnEarth]

hi. i want to ask a question and i apologize because it doesnt match with your thread but still, could you tell me a little about your hanging setup. like what is the width of your rope, what material is this, do you place anything between rope and neck. im hanging soon and i need to collect as much info as possible. sorry for any mistakes

Basically I got a 12mm rope, it was 100ft so had to cut it down to make it usable to about 20ft. I don't necessarily have an anchor point just yet, I was just testing it

I used a pillow cover under the rope so it wouldn't hurt much on my neck, I've ran a few tests and so far it has worked. I don't let myself pass out just yet but I feel the effects

 

[Off_Switch]

It's a crapshoot.

Do you know how I prevent myself from losing money at the Casino? I just simply don't go to the Casino. Could I walk out with a fortune? Perhaps. Am I likely to? The odds that the house prescribes suggests no.

You admitting that procreation is a reckless gamble is the only part of your subsequent response that caught my attention during my very cursory read of it. I was able to determine pretty quickly that you didn't understand what I was trying to say, nor do you seem like someone that would genuinely be willing to try. You're just going to keep issuing me sny rebuttals.

All I can say that is that coming here to SS and trying to totally write off anti-natalist beliefs is crazy work. Don't bother responding any further. I won't read anymore of your responses, nor will I care.

 

[dust-in-the-wind]

I am almost 57. I consciously chose not to have children in my younger days because I am mentally ill and would have made a horrible mother. I also didn't want to pass down my shitty brain genetics to another living being only to have them suffer as I have. Instead I rescued many cats and dogs throughout my life and also volunteered at my local animal shelter.
In the end I have no regrets and feel I made a smaĺl difference in this cruel world.

 

[Dejected 55]

Do you know how I prevent myself from losing money at the Casino? I just simply don't go to the Casino. Could I walk out with a fortune? Perhaps. Am I likely to? The odds that the house prescribes suggests no.

You admitting that procreation is a reckless gamble is the only part of your subsequent response that caught my attention during my very cursory read of it. I was able to determine pretty quickly that you didn't understand what I was trying to say, nor do you seem like someone that would genuinely be willing to try. You're just going to keep issuing me sny rebuttals.

All I can say that is that coming here to SS and trying to totally write off anti-natalist beliefs is crazy work. Don't bother responding any further. I won't read anymore of your responses, nor will I care.

I've said multiple times that it is completely okay for anyone to not want to have children. You somehow want children to have a choice over being born or not while also not believing in before/afterlife, and I'm just saying that makes no sense.

Nobody should have children if they don't want to and nobody should chide them for that... just like if someone wants a child nobody should attack them for that either. I'm not the one attacking others and saying they are stupid or irresponsible merely for wanting children or that children should get a choice over being born even though they don't yet exist at that point to make such a choice.

 

[volo]

For us the troubled, it's better not to have them. It only creates other damaged beings who will suffer as well.