Venting Human rights violation: China at it again.

[Imaginos]

It wasn't just down to what the US did their either, it was what had happened before as well, there were mass graves everywhere and etc. If these things do exist, it would be no surprise it would exist somewhere barbaric like that.

Fair enough, but wherever the USA has gone, atrocities have followed. Whether in South America where they backed/trained numerous right wing death squads from El Salvador to Chile, toppling duly elected governments of the people to install ruthless dictators (such as the grotesque Pinochet) that executed and "disappeared" countless innocents, but were otherwise compliant with US interests. The USA literally flattened NK during the Korean war and killed millions of people, they enthusiastically supported the mass killings committed in Indonesia in the mid 60s, they illegally bombed Cambodia during the Vietnam war and, on that note, burned and torched countless villages within Vietnam and essentially acted no better than Nazi Sturmabteilung. It's staggering to think how much innocent blood is coated on the USA flag. How many ghosts and cursed places they've created during their entire very bloody existence.

Mỹ Lai massacre: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mỹ_Lai_massacre

Illegal bombing of Cambodia: https://www.counterpunch.org/2014/08/01/cambodia-and-western-fabrication-of-history/

Indonesian genocide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965–66

US involvement in regime change in Latin America: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America

Near annihilation of NK by the USA during Korean war:

 

[Endeavour]

Fair enough, but wherever the USA has gone, atrocities have followed. Whether in South America where they backed/trained numerous right wing death squads from El Salvador to Chile, toppling duly elected governments of the people to install ruthless dictators (such as the grotesque Pinochet) that executed and "disappeared" countless innocents, but were otherwise compliant with US interests. The USA literally flattened NK during the Korean war and killed millions of people, they enthusiastically supported the mass killings committed in Indonesia in the mid 60s, they illegally bombed Cambodia during the Vietnam war and, on that note, burned and torched countless villages within Vietnam and essentially acted no better than Nazi Sturmabteilung. It's staggering to think how much innocent blood is coated on the USA flag. How many ghosts and cursed places they've created during their entire very bloody existence.

Mỹ Lai massacre: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mỹ_Lai_massacre

Illegal bombing of Cambodia: https://www.counterpunch.org/2014/08/01/cambodia-and-western-fabrication-of-history/

Indonesian genocide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965–66

US involvement in regime change in Latin America: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America

Near annihilation of NK by the USA during Korean war:

Yeah but some of them probably deserved it

Especially the foreigners.

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

China is certainly guilty of its fair share of human rights violations. Between the big 3 however (China, Russia, and the USA), they're all pretty much as bad as each other. The world, and doubly so for the people that actually have to live inside these countries, would be much better off if these irredeemably oppressive states disappeared overnight. Having said that, next to China, the USA is the most eavesdropped on, wire tapped, and surveilled population in human history. Its militarized police forces more resemble a domestic army, than an actual civil service. They run black sites across the globe where acts of torture are regularly conducted. Whether at the now infamous Guantanamo Bay, or at just as heinous sites present in places like Abu Ghraib and Bagram. The pentagon and their political duopoly poses the greatest threat to world security bar none.

USA Greatest Threat to World Peace: https://www.indepthnews.net/index.php/opinion/3227-u-s-is-greatest-threat-to-world-peace

USA Voted Most Dangerous Country On The Planet: https://www.axios.com/the-biggest-g...ina-c3230b2c-447e-472a-b9dc-5b2a2e2b3117.html

To this day, the US wants Julian Assange's head on a platter. And all for the crime of trying to report the truth to the people and holding those in power to account. Julian Assange was the creator of wikileaks and was integral in revealing the thousands of war crimes committed by the US armed forces in the middle east and elsewhere. Most infamous of which being the release of the "collateral murder" video, where a US gunship was authorized to gun down innocent journalists, along with children who were nearby. Bradley Manning who released this information to wikileaks was tortured by the US for years and was often kept in solitary confinement. Last time I checked, he was thrown back into jail for not be willing to testify against Julian, who is now awaiting extradition to the USA where they will most probably execute him under the espionage act. China is bad with its human rights violations, that much is certain, but the USA is right there with them. They both ought to be wiped off the face of the planet.

Collateral Murder:

Julian Assange: https://scheerpost.com/2021/01/04/chris-hedges-the-empire-is-not-done-with-julian-assange/

The USA, through the NSA, has the most advanced surveillance apparatus in the world. Not even Eastern Germany's infamous Stasi state comes close to matching it, which you can see illustrated in films like The Lives of Others.

By the way, I'm not saying that China isn't awful. Of course it is. The USA, for the last 70/80 years, has designed a world where monsters have now risen to supplant them. At the end of the day, it's not far fetched to say that it's primarily the USA who is to blame for everything that is wrong in the world today. They oversaw decades of geopolitical barbarism and now the chickens are coming home to roost.

While we're on the topic of people's rectums though, US torturers at Abu Ghraib would often smear human feces on prisoners for fun. The personnel at this base were most amused by this and would regularly take photos of them in compromising positions, along with doing many other sadistic acts like stripping the prisoners naked and making them climb on top of each other in a pyramid, or sticking guns in their mouths/asses, or just playing with them as if they were their own personal human toys.

Abu Ghraib Torture and Prisoner Abuse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse

No one in the US military was ever punished for any of this, by the way. At leas not to the extent they ought to have been for committing literal war crimes and other crimes against humanity. From the collateral murder, to Abu Ghraib. Just like with cops and wanton police brutality, the US turns a blind eye to any and all evil it otherwise directly/indirectly supports and encourages.

you are very naive if you think the 3 countries you list are as bad as one another.

two of those countries have consistent net outward migration and one of them does not. That's an objective fact based way of seeing how people worldwide perceive quality of life and personal autonomy within their borders.

 

[Imaginos]

@Imaginos Tell her about the nukes.

Here is actually a very informative conversation discussing the likelihood of how even a modern day cold war, carried out via cyber attacks and economic sanctions, could very easily lead to a hot war where nuclear armageddon would suddenly be a very real and, of course, imminently terminal factor in our survival as a species:

Richard Falk: I think there are grave dangers of either sliding into a new Cold War by unwitting interactions, especially with China, and possibly with Russia. More complex opposing alignments could also take shape, for instance, an alignment that features the U.S. and India on one side and China and Russia on the other. Such an encounter would likely be less ideological than the Cold War that broke out after World War II and also less preoccupied about the outbreak of an all-out nuclear war. The next cold war is likely to be more focused on economic rivalry, cyber dimensions of conflict and major regional wars involving Iran, the Korean Peninsula, or India/Pakistan. In this regard, what might start as a cold war has a greater prospect of producing major hot wars as there could be present less of a self-deterrent. In this altered global setting, there are risks arising from what I would call 'nuclear complacency, underestimating the risks and catastrophic results of nuclear war.

Source: https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/0...ydides-trap-a-conversation-with-richard-falk/

you are very naive if you think the 3 countries you list are as bad as one another.

two of those countries have consistent net outward migration and one of them does not. That's an objective fact based way of seeing how people worldwide perceive quality of life and personal autonomy within their borders.

China is a nakedly totalitarian police state, while the other two cover it up with overtures to their bankrupt and corporate captured democracies allowing their populations "freedom of movement", but very little else. Peek behind the curtain however, and yes, they are all just as bad as one another. Julian Assange, Edward Snowden, and Thomas Drake, can tell you how well the USA treats those who exercise their freedom of speech. Let's also not forget Standing Rock and the protests against DAPL, where attacks dogs were let loose on innocent people and that were also later blasted with water cannons in sub zero temperatures, at the behest and approval of the US government. And this was under Obama, by the way. Same with when bulldozers were brought in to unlawfully clear away Occupy Wall St. camps in Zucotti park and elsewhere. This just goes to show how well the USA respects a people's right to assembly, which is to say they don't. Again, I'm not saying China isn't a fascist hellhole because it most certainly is. The people, everyday people, are the ones who always lose here. All of the aforementioned big 3 impose their own brand of tyranny on their populations. It'd be better if they all just disappeared tomorrow and left the rest of the world to live in peace (assuming that's even possible). That's the only point I'm trying to make here.

 

[Fragile]

Fair enough, but wherever the USA has gone, atrocities have followed. Whether in South America where they backed/trained numerous right wing death squads from El Salvador to Chile, toppling duly elected governments of the people to install ruthless dictators (such as the grotesque Pinochet) that executed and "disappeared" countless innocents, but were otherwise compliant with US interests. The USA literally flattened NK during the Korean war and killed millions of people, they enthusiastically supported the mass killings committed in Indonesia in the mid 60s, they illegally bombed Cambodia during the Vietnam war and, on that note, burned and torched countless villages within Vietnam and essentially acted no better than Nazi Sturmabteilung. It's staggering to think how much innocent blood is coated on the USA flag. How many ghosts and cursed places they've created during their entire very bloody existence.

Mỹ Lai massacre: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mỹ_Lai_massacre

Illegal bombing of Cambodia: https://www.counterpunch.org/2014/08/01/cambodia-and-western-fabrication-of-history/

Indonesian genocide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965–66

US involvement in regime change in Latin America: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America

Near annihilation of NK by the USA during Korean war:

Never ask what the US did without asking what the communists did first.

As bad as the world is with the US invasive foreign policies, and I'm not saying that they are saints, at all, in more than one way they saved the west from a system that has killed and continues to kill and enslave exponentially more people than even monsters like hitler did in their day. even if they did it with their own greed in mind, the world would be a much darker place if communism had prevailed.
There's also the fact that it was entirely communism fault that the power struggle became so extreme, the bolshevik revolution has brought far more terror and conflicts than anything the US could ever hope to do.

It's also extremely naive to even consider the idea that latin america would be any better with left-wing politicians on top, just look at venezuela, a failed socialist state ruined the country with the most oil reserves in the world,they had standards of living that were close to europe in the 90's and people so smart that it breaks my hearth every day when I see them doing menial and dehumanizing jobs in the streets of my country. But venezuelans asked for social justice and socialism, and they got it.

 

[Imaginos]

Never ask what the US did without asking what the communists did first.

Well, for one thing, I never said that communism was superior. I'm not saying that you said that I did either, but I just feel like that bears stating. Both capitalism and communism have been responsible for hundreds of millions of dead as a result of their geopolitical machinations and neither have a right to claim they're better than the other. In D&D terms, I'm what you'd call true neutral and I utterly condemn them both for each of the many crimes they're guilty for. For what it's worth, I consider myself apolitical and do not believe that humanity is, or will ever be, capable of anything more than utter barbarism, no matter what "ism" it chooses to follow/create. The other points you mentioned are highly debatable (all I'm interested in is the truth, regardless of politics, nothing more), but I'd rather just leave it at this because, honestly, I don't really care. Broadly speaking, the human experiment has run out of time, so everything else is essentially moot.

If you ask me, our species needed a parental guardian of some kind. Something to guide us along and treat us like the infantile child race that we actually are. Our political ideologies are like the random cooings and blurbs of a brain damaged toddler. Similar to how you don't let an infant play with a gun, perhaps some higher entity could've acted as a check on ourselves and our so many self-destructive tendencies. Think in terms of a benevolent alien civilization, or a mass super computer designed to effectively serve as the adult in the room and able to prevent us humans from accidentally shooting our own brains out. Too late for that, I'm afraid.

 

[Fragile]

Well, for one thing, I never said that communism was superior. I'm not saying that you said that I did either, but I just feel like that bears stating. Both capitalism and communism have been responsible for hundreds of millions of dead as a result of their geopolitical machinations and neither have a right to claim they're better than the other. For what it's worth, I consider myself apolitical and do not believe that humanity is, or will ever be, capable of anything less than utter barbarism, no matter what "ism" it chooses to follow/create. The other points you mentioned are highly debatable (all I'm interested in is the truth, regardless of politics, nothing more), but I'd rather just leave it at this because, honestly, I don't really care. Broadly speaking, the human experiment has run out of time, so everything else is essentially moot.

For what is worth, I agree with you on many things, and find your perspective very valuable and interesting.

What I was trying to say with my post, to put it very bluntly, is that I'd much rather get fucked by capitalism than getting raped to death by communism.

 

[Amumu]

yeah, this is what led them to colonization and slavery and this this what is leading the destruction of nature and authoritarian healthcare. This closed minded inherent to their culture, destroying others in the guise of doing what's « best » and « making the world a better place ».

For slavery it's completely false, human rights are clearly opposed to them.

For colonisation human rights don't justify it.

Human rights are universal by definition. They have nothing to do with nature and authoritarian healthcare.

No offense, but it's true in a hell lot of way. also, there is a difference between considering other cultures as retards, and destroying them as a result of this thinking.

If you're referring to American Neoconservative scumbags, yes they're scumbags.

The USSR and the US are responsible for modern islamism due to the 1979 USSR - Afghanistan war.

But again human rights don't justify wars either (2003, 2011, etc.)

of course I'm biased. Most humans are retard, but Chinese and Russians didn't hurt me or my culture personally. So I have tend to have less resentment towards them (even tho it's clear China doesn't care about climat change and stuff like that)

If you're referring to the Muslim world :

Are you aware that China is currently torturing millions of Muslims? Are you aware that the USSR invaded Afghanistan in 1979?

Seriously there is a strange propaganda which distorts the facts nowadays.

 

[KleinerWolf]

 

[Ashley_1988]

Could be possible that the individual in charge of the testing regime is a homosexual ?

That commend was totally unnessecery and not funny at all. Homophobia is nothing i care for, I hate it! And even if ur comemnd was meant to be funny- it is not ! pleace next time leave those remarks out...

 

[aneurysm]

For slavery it's completely false, human rights are clearly opposed to them.

For colonisation human rights don't justify it.

Human rights are universal by definition. They have nothing to do with nature and authoritarian healthcare.



If you're referring to American Neoconservative scumbags, yes they're scumbags.

The USSR and the US are responsible for modern islamism due to the 1979 USSR - Afghanistan war.

But again human rights don't justify wars either (2003, 2011, etc.)



If you're referring to the Muslim world :

Are you aware that China is currently torturing millions of Muslims? Are you aware that the USSR invaded Afghanistan in 1979?

Seriously there is a strange propaganda which distorts the facts nowadays.

I take back everything I said, then. you have convinced me.

 

[Makko]

Human rights are universal by definition.

Human rights are a western invention used to justify political and military interventions wherever they please under the slogan of protecting human rights. "To protect your human rights, we're removing your government and substituting our own. Aren't you thankful? We're keeping the oil though."

 

[aneurysm]

Human rights are a western invention used to justify political and military interventions wherever they please under the slogan of protecting human rights. "To protect your human rights, we're removing your government and substituting our own. Aren't you thankful? We're keeping the oil though."

The fact that they think it's "universal by definition" is the most scary thing ever. Honestly. It shows how deeply it's ingrained within them to enslave/colonize others, wether concretely or subtly.

Power doesn't go away, it just morphs. And slavery and colonisation have simply morphed. They never went away. You would have to be a profound idiot to believe that slavery is a thing of the past. Yet, most people think it is.

The stupidity of humans in general knows no bound.

As for me, I completely and unapologetically reject the Western version of « human » rights. They should keep it to themselves.

 

[summers]

Could be possible that the individual in charge of the testing regime is a homosexual ?

That's both childish and unnecessary.

 

[aneurysm]

Also, don't get me wrong. Like I said, Chinses and Russians are also imbeciles. But the West wins in term of imbecility. They're the one who start everything. Who birth the most dangerous/destructive technologies, ideologies, then Asians just copy them and end up surpassing them since they are more intelligent and humble. And Africans... Africans are just useless sheeps. Wise in their soul but weak in their will.

Humanity in general is disgusting. But it all starts with the West.

 

[Fragile]

The fact that they think it's "universal by definition" is the most scary thing ever. Honestly. It shows how deeply it's ingrained within them to enslave/colonize others, wether concretely or subtly.

Power doesn't go away, it just morphs. And slavery and colonisation have simply morphed. They never went away. You would have to be a profound idiot to believe that slavery is a thing of the past. Yet, most people think it is.

The stupidity of humans in general knows no bound.

As for me, I completely and unapologetically reject the Western version of « human » rights. They should keep it to themselves.

Also, don't get me wrong. Like I said, Chinses and Russians are also imbeciles. But the West wins in term of imbecility. They're the one who start everything. Who birth the most dangerous/destructive technologies, ideologies, then Asians just copy them and end up surpassing them since they are more intelligent and humble. And Africans... Africans are just useless sheeps. Wise in their soul but weak in their will.

Humanity in general is disgusting. But it all starts with the West.

Indeed, uyghurs and people from hong kong have never, ever protested and demanded that their basic rights should be respected, they understand that they have to suffer and die because they are not westerners. They deserve to not have rights, now go to the re-education camp!



In all honesty, I've never read such hypocritical, historically illiterate and laughable comments.

 

[Makko]

They deserve to not have rights,

If anything is historically illiterate, it's thinking that in any political context, people can "deserve" things, and that any imagined "deserving" has any material impact on anything.

 

[aneurysm]

hypocritical, historically illiterate

it's compliment. I mean, coming from you.

 

[saltshaker]

I question the value of thinking about this kind of stuff more often these days. If you go looking into the void, to try and discover how truly fucked up things are, you'll find it. It'll be just as bad as you always feared.

But what practical use do you have for knowing this information? Can you stop these atrocities? No. Will knowing about them benefit you in any way? No. Will you be able to get anyone else to give a fuck? No.

I've spent a lot of time trying to uncover these facts and i'm certainly no better off for it. I envy the oblivious people who think their government has their best interest at heart. Take the blue pill.

 

[Fragile]

If anything is historically illiterate, it's thinking that in any political context, people can "deserve" things, and that any imagined "deserving" has any material impact on anything.

Many ancient societies from all over the world have had rules on how each individual should treat others, it's true that some east Asian societies had an emphasis on collectivism rather than the individualism that the west is known for, but it's important to know that these ideas have materialized many times through history in political, religious and even geographical changes.

The concept of "deserving" is not as new as you may think. Early middle eastern societies started the practice of protecting some basic form of human rights by punishing the ones who infringed upon them, an eye for an eye is an extremely old concept that originated in Mesopotamia. Then these concepts evolved when they reached the Mediterranean and they were the base of the greco-roman world, one of the most prosperous periods of time and it was mostly thanks to the rights of the citizens, everyone in the west copied them because of how successful they were.

Then they faded away when the dark ages began, and after almost a millennia, these concepts resurged in the renaissance.

Now, we have an extremely globalized society where we can communicate with almost everyone. individual rights, freedoms, liberty are very alluring concepts and many people want them for themselves.

They are NOT colonialism as that other person said, I'm sorry and I don't use this word very often, but it's completely retarded to think that they are. It's literally human nature to want better life conditions, seeing these rights and values in other people sucks when we don't have them. That's the reason why it's so hard to emigrate out of communist countries, and why us latinos have the meme that cuban-americans are the best swimmers in the world.

 

[aneurysm]

It's a shame that political threads aren't welcome on this forum. They're the only thing that brings us to life, us dead souls haha.

I guess it's a matter of time until a mod intervenes? I don't feel like it's necessary tho. I don't think anyone here cares too much to the point of being triggered.

Dear mods, if you pass by, just letting you know that everyone here is perfectly calm and we're just talking. We love each others.

I know it looked like we were arguing, but I was simply disagreeing with those who were wrong.

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

If anything is historically illiterate, it's thinking that in any political context, people can "deserve" things, and that any imagined "deserving" has any material impact on anything.

it's compliment. I mean, coming from you.

But what practical use do you have for knowing this information? Can you stop these atrocities? No. Will knowing about them benefit you in any way? No. Will you be able to get anyone else to give a fuck? No.

I want a heads-up so I know when to go to work with the rope.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I'm too scared/lazy to read all the replies to this thread but this is all I have to say:

 

[Makko]

@Fragile I don't disagree with anything in your post but it's wholly theoretical. It doesn't take into account how states are built and ruled in practice. Any system is good as long as it consolidates the power of the state. In any instance where applying the rules of the system undermines the power of the state, the rules of the system won't be applied. Something else will be applied, with whatever justification looks best at the time. Hammurabi's code was like this and the concept of human rights is like this.

Noble rulers and philosophers are very good at coming up with just and fair systems, they are not so good at applying them for just and fair outcomes.

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

In any instance where applying the rules of the system undermines the power of the state, the rules of the system won't be applied. Something else will be applied, with whatever justification looks best at the time.

Or the worst case scenario— the rules are applied anyway with catastrophic consequences.

 

[Fragile]

@Fragile I don't disagree with anything in your post but it's wholly theoretical. It doesn't take into account how states are built and ruled in practice. Any system is good as long as it consolidates the power of the state. In any instance where applying the rules of the system undermines the power of the state, the rules of the system won't be applied. Something else will be applied, with whatever justification looks best at the time. Hammurabi's code was like this and the concept of human rights is like this.

Noble rulers and philosophers are very good at coming up with just and fair systems, they are not so good at applying them for just and fair outcomes.

And I don't disagree with you either, however, the societies that I mentioned are unquestionably some of the most prosperous and influential in human history, human rights are a big part of why they got to that place. It's true that they eventually decline, I mean, we are currently watching the decline of one of the mightiest societies, but they are definitely not theoretical if they worked for so long.

The real issue is not their implementation, rather, it's about how they fall due to corruption in the upper echelons of the system or foreign influence upon them.

I know it looked like we were arguing, but I was simply disagreeing with those who were wrong.

Hey, I could say the same!

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

That's both childish and unnecessary.

Not at all. Stories pop up in the media often of doctors, airport security etc that are caught running unnecessary procedures to fulfill a sexual fantasy. Political correctness may have told you otherwise , but reality remains supreme and perverted stuff happens . Reality is NON NEGOTIABLE

 

[saltshaker]

Take the blue pill.
Get a job.
And a mortgage.
Find a partner
Have a kid.
Start watching TV.
Vote 2 party.
Post your basic bitch political views on your Facebook.
Compare insurance providers.
Stop thinking about Assange.
Get invested in the way things are.
Feel a sense of national pride.
Become everything you've always hated.

This inspiring message is brought to you by your friend saltshaker. <3

 

[aneurysm]

Take the blue pill.
Get a job.
And a mortgage.
Find a partner
Have a kid.
Start watching TV.
Vote 2 party.
Post your basic bitch political views on your Facebook.
Compare insurance providers.
Stop thinking about Assange.
Get invested in the way things are.
Feel a sense of national pride.
Become everything you've always hated.

This inspiring message is brought to you by your friend saltshaker. <3

wise words. Truly.

 

[Makko]

Compare insurance providers.

You can't fool me. My insurance provider is incomparable.