from pro-choice to pro-life?

[thaelyana]

hey! I've been wondering about something. has getting better ever made you shift from a pro-choice mindset to a more pro-life one? like , did you actually feel that change inside?

keep taking care of yourselves and keep healing

 

[RadiantNumber]

I think such person would be quickly banned, especially when they would try to flood suicide discussion board with pro-life messages

 

[Pluto]

 

[thaelyana]

I think such person would be quickly banned, especially when they would try to flood suicide discussion board with pro-life messages

Surely, yes. But what I was really thinking about is someone who, after getting better, started to see things differently, maybe things we can't quite see yet, in the state we're currently in. I guess I'm trying to find some kind of hope in life, lol.
Someone who ends up thinking that no one truly deserves an end like that, or who starts to feel deeply that there's something worth holding onto in life, even in its most fragile forms ? This kind of shift in perspective does exist, doesn't it?
Ty

 

[RadiantNumber]

Surely, yes. But what I was really thinking about is someone who, after getting better, started to see things differently, maybe things we can't quite see yet, in the state we're currently in. I guess I'm trying to find some kind of hope in life, lol.
Someone who ends up thinking that no one truly deserves an end like that, or who starts to feel deeply that there's something worth holding onto in life, even in its most fragile forms ? This kind of shift in perspective does exist, doesn't it?
Ty

Maybe, there are some of such people here i don't know, I speak from the other side

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

Surely, yes. But what I was really thinking about is someone who, after getting better, started to see things differently, maybe things we can't quite see yet, in the state we're currently in. I guess I'm trying to find some kind of hope in life, lol.
Someone who ends up thinking that no one truly deserves an end like that, or who starts to feel deeply that there's something worth holding onto in life, even in its most fragile forms ? This kind of shift in perspective does exist, doesn't it?
Ty

There are plenty of ex-suicidal anti-suicide advocates out there. People who say "I'm so glad I didn't CTB back then, because I'm so grateful to be living now." They claim that while depressed, they were not able to think clearly and their judgement was clouded. They then come to believe that other suicidal people would see the beauty in life if they would just get the help they need and come out of their stupor.

I think this quote puts it well:
"You don't think in depression that you've put on a grey veil and are seeing the world through the haze of a bad mood. You think that the veil has been taken away, the veil of happiness, and that now you're seeing truly [...] you think that truth is a fixed thing [...] You can exorcise the demons of schizophrenics who perceive that there's something foreign inside them. But it's much harder with depressed people because we believe we are seeing the truth. [...] Only one remark was really helpful through all of this. A friend said, 'It won't always be like this. See if you can just remember that. It's like this right now, and it won't always be like this.'"

I don't find any of this convincing, but YMMV.

 

[Kalista]

Surely, yes. But what I was really thinking about is someone who, after getting better, started to see things differently, maybe things we can't quite see yet, in the state we're currently in. I guess I'm trying to find some kind of hope in life, lol.
Someone who ends up thinking that no one truly deserves an end like that, or who starts to feel deeply that there's something worth holding onto in life, even in its most fragile forms ? This kind of shift in perspective does exist, doesn't it?

that shift in perspective is possible and it exists.

however, choice is not some concept that can be changed just because someone started feeling better as it is inherent, consistent, and exists outside of personal opinions. what's changing is that person's 'frame of mind', not choice itself.
based on how you're interpreting 'pro-choice,' it is not automatically a path to suicide. it's simply that, a choice. a choice that every single person in this world has. whether to continue living or to choose to die no matter the circumstance.

being pro-choice respects the person's decisions, their autonomous right.
a shift from pro-choice to pro-life becomes a closed-minded perspective, and ignores and dismisses the inherent choice an individual has. furthermore, it aims to manipulate that decision with external optimism to make themselves feel better -- people thinking they know what's best for the individual as if they truly know their pain when they truly don't. while it's not always a bad thing, it is, however, what the person doesn't want or need in many situations if they're choosing to die. forcing this kind of thinking -- "there's something worth holding on to" -- to someone is false hope to many and shouldn't be used in a generalized manner like many in here annoyingly already do. taking a neutral stance is the best position to be in if individual choice is to be absolutely respected. otherwise it isn't and it becomes what others want, not the person choosing to die.

overall, just because someone is beginning to feel better does not mean that person can make others feel the same. each person's upbringing and current situation is different, each person has different pain thresholds, each person has different wants and needs. these are things that should never be ignored just because someone started to feel something positive in their life.

 

[CatLvr]

Absolutely not.

I was pro-choice LONG before a suicidal thought ever crossed my mind.

It doesn't matter who. It doesn't matter why. All that matters is the right to choose to end your life whenever you want, for whatever you want, should be THE one basic human right we all honor. In my opinion, of course. No one should have the right to decide if your reason for wanting to leave this life is "okay".

 

[thaelyana]

that shift in perspective is possible and it exists.

however, choice is not some concept that can be changed just because someone started feeling better as it is inherent, consistent, and exists outside of personal opinions. what's changing is that person's 'frame of mind', not choice itself.
based on how you're interpreting 'pro-choice,' it is not automatically a path to suicide. it's simply that, a choice. a choice that every single person in this world has. whether to continue living or to choose to die no matter the circumstance.

being pro-choice respects the person's decisions, their autonomous right.
a shift from pro-choice to pro-life becomes a closed-minded perspective, and ignores and dismisses the inherent choice an individual has. furthermore, it aims to manipulate that decision with external optimism to make themselves feel better -- people thinking they know what's best for the individual as if they truly know their pain when they truly don't. while it's not always a bad thing, it is, however, what the person doesn't want or need in many situations if they're choosing to die. forcing this kind of thinking -- "there's something worth holding on to" -- to someone is false hope to many and shouldn't be used in a generalized manner like many in here annoyingly already do. taking a neutral stance is the best position to be in if individual choice is to be absolutely respected. otherwise it isn't and it becomes what others want, not the person choosing to die.

overall, just because someone is beginning to feel better does not mean that person can make others feel the same. each person's upbringing and current situation is different, each person has different pain thresholds, each person has different wants and needs. these are things that should never be ignored just because someone started to feel something positive in their life.

Thank you your answer is great!! Thank you the question was running a lot in my head

Absolutely not.

I was pro-choice LONG before a suicidal thought ever crossed my mind.

It doesn't matter who. It doesn't matter why. All that matters is the right to choose to end your life whenever you want, for whatever you want, should be THE one basic human right we all honor. In my opinion, of course. No one should have the right to decide if your reason for wanting to leave this life is "okay".

I agree with you, it's nice of you to have answered me!! It was very annoying to think about that lol, when I asked the question to the AI I was stupidly answered!! "UH YES! AND WE MUST NOT CTB " THANK YOU!

 

[lost_one]

I think there is a big difference between getting better, wanting to live, "recovery" and turning pro-life.

I think like others have said that you can theoretically turn pro-life when you get better, but I find that question a bit silly, cause I think you don't need to be pro-life to recover. And be pro-choice is exactly that, is to support people and what they want, and support people if they want to live and get better too. It's just accepting that people should have the right to choose for themselves, it is autonomy.

You can, like you said belive that there is something worth holding on to in life, and still be pro-choice, you found that, you want to live and we support that, that is why we have a recovery section on this website. Shifting one's perception is hard, but not impossible, but don't confuse you choosing to live and find meaning even in suffering with forcing others to do the same.

(edit: typos, so many...)
Good luck

 

[thaelyana]

I think there is a big difference between getting better, wanting to live, "recovery" and turning pro-life.

I think like others have said that you can theoretically turn pro-life when you get better, but I find that question a bit silly, cause I think you don't need to be pro-life to recover. And be pro-choice is exactly that, is to support people and what they want, and support people if they want to live and get better too. It's just accepting that people should have the right to choose for themselves, it is autonomy.

You can like you said belive that there is something worth holding on to in life, and still be pro-coice, you found that, you want to live and we support that, that is why we have a recovery section on this website. Shifting one's perseption if hard, but not impossible, but don't confuse you choosing to live and find meaning even in suffering to forcing others to do the same.

Good luck

Thank you very much! it helps to think

 

[GhostInTheMachine]

I personally hate the terms pro-life and pro-choice in this context. I understand it's shorthand, but frankly it's really stupid. I prefer pro-mercy and anti-mercy, because at the end of the day the choice isn't about life and death, it's about suffering and not suffering. There's a prevailing attitude here that life is this unsalvageable experience that can only be "resolved" by dying, but I think that's really closed-minded thinking. For most people here, if their life circumstances (physical, emotional, material, etc) were remarkably improved, they wouldn't be strongly advocating that people just kill themselves. Does that make them "pro-choice"? I wouldn't say so, it's just that they no longer have a strong desire to essentially be mercy killed.

Instead the question should be "Do you believe those who suffer should be allowed the mercy of death"? Thus, are you pro-mercy or anti-mercy?

 

[thaelyana]

I personally hate the terms pro-life and pro-choice in this context. I understand it's shorthand, but frankly it's really stupid. I prefer pro-mercy and anti-mercy, because at the end of the day the choice isn't about life and death, it's about suffering and not suffering

I will inquire about this; thank you

 

[Praestat_Mori]

For most of my life, I've not been suicidal. However, sometimes I got notice of some "celebrities" in the news who took their life. I've never understood how someone could do this, but it was always clear that they had their personal reasons, and I clearly had no influence on this - it's their choice, not mine. I didn't think about it further.

Despite not being suicidal myself for most of my life, it was always clear to me that I might end up in a kind of critical situation myself where suicide is an option. That includes failure, severe health issues or even other circumstances that make suicide more preferable than to go on living for many different reasons.

Since I joined SS more than 2 years ago, my general situation hasn't improved in the sense of solving the core problem that makes me suicidal, but the situation has calmed down, and everything has settled on a fragile bottom, so to say. I won't ever change my mind about pro-choice bc imo there's always an uncontrollable reason behind each suicide. Any life form is programmed to live at all costs, but we humans can consciously decide and make a choice - however, dying by our own hands is a difficult task even with the most peaceful method.

I believe, most suicidal people would prefer a permanent and positive solution to their problems that makes them suicidal instead of suicide.