Help Exit bag - best position for the hose inside the bag

[DarkTear]

@Smilla and I had a discussion about the best position for the end of the hose inside an exit bag.

We came to the conclusion that the best position is probably the top of the bag (like in the attached picture). Why? Because the exhaled CO2 must get out of the bag. If the inert gas is streaming in from the top, it should push out the CO2 through the small gap between neck and bag.
In my opinion, it wouldn't be a good idea to place the hose end underneath of the mouth/nose because then it could be that the gas would push the CO2 to the top where it can't escape?

Small things like this can make a difference between success or failure - therefore we're looking forward to more opinions!

Thanks!

 

[Kdawg2018]

I think top is best. Tape it inside with micropore tape. Consider adding glitter or flare for your statement piece. Good luck!

 

[TiredHorse]

Clearly I'm not the ideal example, because I'm still alive.

That said, what I have done on my attempts is to run the hose up behind my shoulder, up the back of my neck, and tuck it through the (tight) hair elastic at my nape (I have long hair). This keeps the flood of gas off my face and the hissing noise behind me. It is perfectly comfortable, and has seemed unlikely to be dislodged when my head slumps, or if I twitch at all after I black out.

By anchoring the end of the tube to my head rather than to the bag, it means the tube doesn't need to move during that transition from pre-filling the bag, to down over my face. My sense is this makes it less likely for the hose to be dislodged in the process, as well as making the bag easier to manipulate.

I can't remember where I read the suggestion to run it up your back, but seems to be good advice.

 

[Smilla]

Clearly I'm not the ideal example, because I'm still alive.

That said, what I have done on my attempts is to run the hose up behind my shoulder, up the back of my neck, and tuck it through the (tight) hair elastic at my nape (I have long hair). This keeps the flood of gas off my face and the hissing noise behind me. It is perfectly comfortable, and has seemed unlikely to be dislodged when my head slumps, or if I twitch at all after I black out.

By anchoring the end of the tube to my head rather than to the bag, it means the tube doesn't need to move during that transition from pre-filling the bag, to down over my face. My sense is this makes it less likely for the hose to be dislodged in the process, as well as making the bag easier to manipulate.

I can't remember where I read the suggestion to run it up your back, but seems to be good advice.

Thank you.

My only concern is I nor Dark Tear have long hair, thus no elastic to affix the tube to.

Original plan for me was to use micropore tape and insert the hose near the top of the bag.

Would you be so kind to comment on this? Are we overthinking this?

 

[TiredHorse]

I don't think you're overthinking it at all --but I do think that at this point you've hit on the right solution: micropore tape at the top of the bag sounds very reasonable. I think that's even the standard approach in PPH --maybe? I can't recall.

The only thing I can recommend further is to now try it: tape the hose in place and run through a "drill." Start with the bag on like a shower cap, then pull it down into place over your face. Roll your head around a bit, as you're sitting in your chair, as if you're twitching post-blackout. See if the hose moves, gets knocked loose, or somehow displaces the bag. The gas coming out of the hose doesn't move it around at all --it isn't as if you have to worry about it squirting loose from gas pressure; the concern is much more about knocking the hose loose as you move the bag around getting it into place, or having the stiff hose interfere with the fit of the bag.

 

[Final Escape]

I was just goin to tape the hose to the inside of bag but I don't know now. Guess this is kind of important to get right. You need the gas to stay put till u are dead right? Which can vary from person to person.

 

[TiredHorse]

I was just goin to tape the hose to the inside of bag but I don't know now. Guess this is kind of important to get right. You need the gas to stay put till u are dead right? Which can vary from person to person.

That's what DarkTear is suggesting: tape the hose to the inside of the bag. He and Smilla are just being more specific, stating their conclusion that taping it near the top of the bag would be the best approach.

So what you were going to do is right.

Yes, you definitely need the hose to stay put, and the gas to keep flowing into the bag, until you are dead. That can vary a little bit from person to person, but my understanding is that letting 600L of gas run out --about 40min @ 15Lpm-- is more than adequate for anyone.

 

[Whatshername]

@Smilla and I had a discussion about the best position for the end of the hose inside an exit bag.

We came to the conclusion that the best position is probably the top of the bag (like in the attached picture). Why? Because the exhaled CO2 must get out of the bag. If the inert gas is streaming in from the top, it should push out the CO2 through the small gap between neck and bag.
In my opinion, it wouldn't be a good idea to place the hose end underneath of the mouth/nose because then it could be that the gas would push the CO2 to the top where it can't escape?

Small things like this can make a difference between success or failure - therefore we're looking forward to more opinions!

Thanks!

View attachment 4438

CO2 is heavier than air/nitrogen/helium. It's not going to sit at the top, it will descend towards the gap at the neck. I think you can place the hose wherever it's comfortable for you as long as it's properly secured/taped inside the bag. This is my chosen method too, I'm also trying to figure out technical aspects to get it right. (Like how do I figure out if the tank I see on websites is enough, the flow regulator adequate, etc...I'm stupid for these things)

 

[TiredHorse]

Honestly, I suspect that between the turbulence of breathing and the turbulence of in-flowing gas, there'll be enough intermixing of inert gas and CO2 that the weight of the different gasses won't make much difference as regards flushing away the CO2. The importance will be in keeping a steady flow of fresh IG (15Lpm) into the bag to flush away the contaminated IG make sure that the CO2 remains dilute.

I'm also trying to figure out technical aspects to get it right. (Like how do I figure out if the tank I see on websites is enough, the flow regulator adequate, etc...I'm stupid for these things)

Figuring out tank size can be difficult. There's a bit about it in the Exit Bag and Inert Gas Megathread, but I wish there were more. If you're in the US, you want a minimum of a 20 cubic foot (cf) tank; I bought a 40cf just to be sure and have been glad of it, as I've flinched several times now and wasted a bit of gas each time.
Again, if you're in the US, this is the regulator I bought: https://www.harborfreight.com/regulator-gauge-94841.html The critical element is the flowmeter, which reads in liters per minute (Lpm), and you can see that it will give you the necessary 15Lpm.

 

[Whatshername]

Thank you, you're probably right about the mixing of gases. I have read through the Inert Gas Megathread, and it was quite helpful in many aspects (thanks for that thread too). I'm not in the US, but I'll find a way. I'll pester you with questions when I think I found the right thing :)

 

[Singing In The Rain]

Maybe you could tie or tape the hose to an elastic head band some how and then put the bag over the hose. Just an idea...

How do you ensure the bag doesn't stick to your face when breathing? I was thinking of wearing a baseball cap. Would that help?

 

[Deleted member 1768]

Honestly, I suspect that between the turbulence of breathing and the turbulence of in-flowing gas, there'll be enough intermixing of inert gas and CO2 that the weight of the different gasses won't make much difference as regards flushing away the CO2. The importance will be in keeping a steady flow of fresh IG (15Lpm) into the bag to flush away the contaminated IG make sure that the CO2 remains dilute.

Figuring out tank size can be difficult. There's a bit about it in the Exit Bag and Inert Gas Megathread, but I wish there were more. If you're in the US, you want a minimum of a 20 cubic foot (cf) tank; I bought a 40cf just to be sure and have been glad of it, as I've flinched several times now and wasted a bit of gas each time.
Again, if you're in the US, this is the regulator I bought: https://www.harborfreight.com/regulator-gauge-94841.html The critical element is the flowmeter, which reads in liters per minute (Lpm), and you can see that it will give you the necessary 15Lpm.

https://maxdogbrewing.com/ try this,,,mouse trouble...sorry.

 

[Singing In The Rain]

@DarkTear your exit bag looks well made. I hope to make one similar tomorrow. Could you please tell me the dimensions of the bag you have in the photo? What size bag is recommended?

 

[TiredHorse]

How do you ensure the bag doesn't stick to your face when breathing? I was thinking of wearing a baseball cap. Would that help?

I was worried about that too, but it turns out to not be a problem at all. When you inflate the exit bag above your head, and then pull it down over your face, it stays pretty well inflated and doesn't touch your face. The inflowing N2 then keeps it inflated.

I thought about using a brimmed hat, but realized the first time I ran a drill with the bag that it wouldn't work. First of all, wearing a brim makes it much more difficult to get the N2-filled bag down over my face in a smooth motion --I realized it was best if I removed my glasses, even. Then, even if I managed it, there might be a pocket of air trapped under the brim that would then dilute the N2.

But since the bag stays inflated and off my face, it turned out not to matter. The inflowing gas even keeps the bag from fogging up, which is nice.

 

[Singing In The Rain]

Good to know @TiredHorse. What dimensions is recommended for the bag? Does the bag need to be strong? I'm assuming oven bags would be reasonably durable for the job...

 

[TiredHorse]

Good to know @TiredHorse. What dimensions is recommended for the bag? Does the bag need to be strong? I'm assuming oven bags would be reasonably durable for the job...

I used a turkey-sized oven bag: good size and plenty strong. I'm kind of a turkey, so it seemed appropriate...

 

[Kdawg2018]

I used a turkey-sized oven bag: good size and plenty strong. I'm kind of a turkey, so it seemed appropriate...

Don't forget to brine ;)

 

[Smilla]

Don't forget to brine ;)

Not necessary if you are Jewish and thus a kosher turkey ;).

 

[Singing In The Rain]

CO2 is heavier than air/nitrogen/helium. It's not going to sit at the top, it will descend towards the gap at the neck. I think you can place the hose wherever it's comfortable for you as long as it's properly secured/taped inside the bag. This is my chosen method too, I'm also trying to figure out technical aspects to get it right. (Like how do I figure out if the tank I see on websites is enough, the flow regulator adequate, etc...I'm stupid for these things)

Do you know if co2 is heavier than argon? --which is what I'll be using. Or vise versa?

 

[Whatshername]

I had to google that :) Apparently, it is.

 

[TiredHorse]

Don't forget to brine ;)

Not necessary if you are Jewish and thus a kosher turkey ;).

Um. Guess I'd better make up some brine... Are you all telling me I should go soak my head? ;-)

Do you know if co2 is heavier than argon? --which is what I'll be using. Or vise versa?

If I had to guess, I'd say Ar is heavier --but I honestly wonder if calculating the weight to quite this degree might be overthinking the process. With 15Lpm flushing the bag, I would imagine that should be plenty to dilute the CO2 and flush it away regardless of which IG is being used.

ETA: @Whatshername not only beat me to it, but was more definitive, too.

 

[Singing In The Rain]

Cool thanks guys.

 

[DarkTear]

@DarkTear your exit bag looks well made. I hope to make one similar tomorrow. Could you please tell me the dimensions of the bag you have in the photo? What size bag is recommended?

The exit bag in the photo has a size of 35cm x 38cm / 14" x 15". It does fit over my head but it could be a bit bigger, therefore I'll also make a larger one.
The PPH recommends a size of 35cm x 50cm / 14" x 20".

 

[dyingtodie]

Too tired/suicidal to read the thread, but "five last acts" is available on scribd (1st month free). It has very, very specific info related to your query. I've found great reassurance in studying the helium chapter and it answered all of my questions. Best of luck.

 

[Singing In The Rain]

The exit bag in the photo has a size of 35cm x 38cm / 14" x 15". It does fit over my head but it could be a bit bigger, therefore I'll also make a larger one.
The PPH recommends a size of 35cm x 50cm / 14" x 20".

Thank you. I have attempted making a bag of 50cm x 50cm. It seems wide enough but not tall enough (I probably rolled the bottom the bag up too much though).

I'm trying to work out how much space is needed in the bag around your head? Does anyone know?
My one doesn't seem to have a lot of space in it. I'm thinking of getting a bigger bag.

 

[TheCrow]

https://maxdogbrewing.com/ try this,,,mouse trouble...sorry.

I bought their kit, and it's really nice. It comes in a really nice black painted wooden box with fitted foam around the regulator inside. It's grossly overpriced, but it kind of makes ctbing seem more official and ceremonious.

 

[Smilla]

I bought their kit, and it's really nice. It comes in a really nice black painted wooden box with fitted foam around the regulator inside. It's grossly overpriced, but it kind of makes ctbing seem more official and ceremonious.

I have the same regulator. It's my avatar. I loved the box too!

 

[TheCrow]

I have the same regulator. It's my avatar. I loved the box too!

HA! Omg, I didn't even realize that! I thought it was the Virgin Mary! Wtf is wrong with me?!! Haha. It's SO nice, isn't it? I'm so glad I treated myself.

 

[Smilla]

HA! Omg, I didn't even realize that! I thought it was the Virgin Mary! Wtf is wrong with me?!! Haha. It's SO nice, isn't it? I'm so glad I treated myself.

Lol. Im glad too!

 

[dyingtodie]

1st class bus ride. :) Sounds divine.