Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[DeadManLiving]

After some additional research, I found liquid nitrogen is very easily obtained in the US. It's about $4/liter and you need ideally 10 - 15 liters to saturate a small enclosed space. The containers cost $200 - $300+ but can be purchased cheaper used. This hasn't been used by many people to ctb which is why it's still readily available. In terms of reliability and simplicity of setup, it should theoretically score highly. If more people actually try it, we will be more confident, but then it will also go the way of SN and become a legend of the past that no one can access anymore. I guess this is just the inevitable cycle all these methods go through as they get discovered.

At this point, the most ideal thing I can imagine, is rapidly decanting 10 liters liquid nitrogen, into a wide, flat container (like a metal pan or something), in medium-sized weatherproof tent. If you keep your body low to the ground, there's practically no chance you won't be out in seconds flat. It seems more foolproof that the mask/bag avenue, which it seems like people have a propensity to mess up some detail and abandon the method.

Yeah LN2 is the most effective bespoke method at this time. I mean the current scientific consensus and warning is that you never transport a Dewar of LN2 in an elevator. If you using an elevator the tank has to go up and down without anybody inside because if it spills you're 100% dead.

Your math and calculations on a vehicle cabin or accurate. About 20 L of LN2 spilled inside a vehicle cabin will be enough to double its internal pressure or replace the entire atmosphere two times over. You'll be dead in a few breaths or two. You could also do it in a tent and just lay down on the floor since the cool nitrogen gas will settle to the bottom and you'll die in the blanket plume peacefully. It's effectively a poor man's sarcopod. I have read many media reports of this method that were later retracted simply because of how effective it is. I mean you just spill it and you're dead. The important thing is to just keep it bespoke because of enough people catch on then we might see some restrictions on purchasing.

 

[ElusiveFreedom]

Hello, I didn't find any option for 600l of N2 in my area (EU, Czechia, Ostrava) but I found 700l He for baloons. What kind of stuff should I ask the shop to find out if it'll be sufficient?

 

[Tommen Baratheon]

Thanks for all answers last time.

I have now done several exit bags. But there can be two problem when I test them. (Only bags over head. No nitrogen.)
1. Plastic often stick to mouth and nose when I breath.
2. I do not feel CO2 or lack of O2.

Will pressure from nitrogen flow solve problem 1?
Is problem 2 sign that air is leaking in = drawcord not tight enough? Or did I not test long enough? After how much time should I feel CO2 or lack of O2?

Thanks again.

1. Some people wear a face mask to avoid this.
2. This is the advantage of inert gas: your body is deprived of oxygen, but your brain won't notice, so you won't gasp for air.

If you're testing /with/ gas (bag on top of your head, open gas, fill bag, hold breathe, bag over your head, close gas, breathe in) you should be out in 3 minutes max

 

[viadolorosa]

1. Some people wear a face mask to avoid this.
2. This is the advantage of inert gas: your body is deprived of oxygen, but your brain won't notice, so you won't gasp for air.

If you're testing /with/ gas (bag on top of your head, open gas, fill bag, hold breathe, bag over your head, close gas, breathe in) you should be out in 3 minutes max

Thanks. But the problem I see is this:

I do not feel CO2 or lack of O2. This can mean that CO2 leaks out and O2 comes in.
If this is true, N2 can leak out and O2 come in during ctb attempt with gas. Then failure is risk.
Conclusion: Exit bag must be tighter around neck.

Is this correct reasoning? Or is it normal to not feel CO2 after 10-20 deep breathings in bag?

And forgive my bad english.

 

[I_go_in]

Is there literally any risk in the full mask scuba method with Nitrogen? It seems like investing a few 100 bucks to have a 100% certain way to die peacefully is worth it. How could it possibly fail? Surprised it isn't used more in more advanced countries.

 

[kudaphillips]

Thanks. But the problem I see is this:

I do not feel CO2 or lack of O2. This can mean that CO2 leaks out and O2 comes in.
If this is true, N2 can leak out and O2 come in during ctb attempt with gas. Then failure is risk.
Conclusion: Exit bag must be tighter around neck.

Is this correct reasoning? Or is it normal to not feel CO2 after 10-20 deep breathings in bag?

And forgive my bad english.

Yes o2 can get In the bag when it's over your head when the gas is off . But the way this method functions , is that the flow of gas creates a positive pressure inside the bag which won't let outside air inside . You can feel this and assure yourself if you test it out , you feel the air rushing out the bottom of the bag .

You don't want the bag too tight , just snug. Certainly not an air tight fit.

 

[Endoflifer]

Hi fellow despondents (I presume)! I have everything I need but now have to start assembling and it makes me nervous. I'm so afraid I'll botch something or that there will be a leak and I'll be back to square one again. Right now I have another question regarding the cylinder itself. Looking up guidelines for installing the regulator I keep coming across warnings that you should always keep the cylinder upright and properly secured with a chain or belt, and never to move it with the regulator attached. Because if anything happens, the cylinder will be out of control and may break through walls. I mean, my god. Mine is 5 L, but still, I suppose the pressure inside is enough to cause a lot of damage. How seriously do you all take these warnings and how do you store and secure the cylinder?

 

[kudaphillips]

Hi fellow despondents (I presume)! I have everything I need but now have to start assembling and it makes me nervous. I'm so afraid I'll botch something or that there will be a leak and I'll be back to square one again. Right now I have another question regarding the cylinder itself. Looking up guidelines for installing the regulator I keep coming across warnings that you should always keep the cylinder upright and properly secured with a chain or belt, and never to move it with the regulator attached. Because if anything happens, the cylinder will be out of control and may break through walls. I mean, my god. Mine is 5 L, but still, I suppose the pressure inside is enough to cause a lot of damage. How seriously do you all take these warnings and how do you store and secure the cylinder?

They have to have this type of warnings to cover their ass. You could probably drop your cylinder from 6 feet and it would be fine . Doesn't mean you should take the precautions thiugh, and obviously don't do anything like that .

There's no reason to store the cylinder with the regulator hooked up , but you could it's not a big deal . I'd wager to guess no one in this thread has ever personally had a cylinder explode or anything like that . I'd worry more about the procedure and bag construction and SI rather than dangers of storing the cylinder

 

[Endoflifer]

Thanks for replying! Yes, I worry about those things as well, but first things first, I have to make sure the gas will flow, so handling the cylinder ('cracking' it when first using it, for example) and hooking up the regulator and hose and checking for leaks are my initial concerns right now, and they are more than enough already!

 

[Endoflifer]

I'm actually going to start by making the exit bag. I do have a question about the hose. I got an aquarium hose that seems to fit tightly onto the hose barb that came with the regulator. Internal diameter is 6 mm. That should be fine, right? Much appreciated!

 

[littleadonis]

1. What size range for the bag is OK? PPeH says 35x50 cm. Any other suggestions?

I wouldn't go smaller than the recommendation. My reasoning is that at a minimum you need more gas in the bag than your lung volume. (about 5 liters) Otherwise when you inhale it might pull air in from outside. Then you need safety factor and enough gas to dilute any exhaled co2. I have made a test bag following the PPeH recommendation and inflated it using a bike air pump and it felt like a good size.

I'm not sure if there is any downside to a larger bag other than it will take longer to inflate at the start.

Where did you hear this? I was just about to buy a 35x43cm oven bag that I thought would be more than enough.

 

[exitingtothevoid]

Where did you hear this? I was just about to buy a 35x43cm oven bag that I thought would be more than enough.

I actually didn't hear it anywhere, it came from thinking about how this works. Imagine you have a bag that is only slightly larger than your head. Maybe it only holds 1l of gas when fully inflated with your head in it. If you fully exhale before pulling the bag down, then try to inhale the full 5l that your lungs can hold, you'll need 4l more gas than is in the bag. That 4l has to come from somewhere. Either it'll pull 4l of air though the neck opening, or you'll suck the bag down around your nose and mouth.

But it's hard to say how small is too small without measuring the free volume of the bag on your head. 35x43cm still seems big enough, I guess?

 

[littleadonis]

35x43cm still seems big enough, I guess?

I went with the 43x55cm one instead.

 

[kudaphillips]

I actually didn't hear it anywhere, it came from thinking about how this works. Imagine you have a bag that is only slightly larger than your head. Maybe it only holds 1l of gas when fully inflated with your head in it. If you fully exhale before pulling the bag down, then try to inhale the full 5l that your lungs can hold, you'll need 4l more gas than is in the bag. That 4l has to come from somewhere. Either it'll pull 4l of air though the neck opening, or you'll suck the bag down around your nose and mouth.

But it's hard to say how small is too small without measuring the free volume of the bag on your head. 35x43cm still seems big enough, I guess?

This is def discussed in pph. My understanding is the smaller bag allows more co2 build up.
In a larger bag, you won't notice any CO2 buildup. That's why the larger bags are recommended.

 

[blacksand]

Are there examples of this working with young-ish and healthy people?

When I browse the Wikipedia list of suicides I see a lot of carbon monoxide (esp. East Asian music/film stars) but very few exit bags.

Unless being young can let you survive breathing a 0% oxygen environment then yes it will kill you stone dead just like anyone else.

 

[oono]

Is there literally any risk in the full mask scuba method with Nitrogen? It seems like investing a few 100 bucks to have a 100% certain way to die peacefully is worth it. How could it possibly fail? Surprised it isn't used more in more advanced countries.

There is a guide on this forum for the SCUBA method, made by user "befree". This is personally the method I want to use.

 

[Placo]

Lately I've been fine but after reading the news of a boy who died because of laughing gas I'm getting the idea of having a suicide in the drawer with this method, at least you die laughing, but I imagine the complexity is considerable and I don't live alone.

 

[Endoflifer]

Sorry to bother you all again, this time it's a question about hyperventilating for the exit bag method. Someone said it wasn't strictly necessary, but I'm a smoker and don't want to wait too long before the lights go out, so aside from not smoking for two days prior, I also intend to do the two minutes of hyperventilating beforehand. Now it makes sense to me that it should be done while the bag is inflating on top of your head, which should also take a couple of minutes (including the time to wash out remaining air). But I haven't seen any confirmation of this. Could anyone pitch in? Frankly speaking the idea of hyperventilating beforehand is a bit off-putting to me, as it definitely makes for a much more energizing and therefore nerve-wracking experience (as if it won't be already). I used to do some Wim Hof breathing, which combines a form of hyperventilating with retention, and the retention part is actually very soothing and relaxing. But unfortunately that's exactly the part that makes for a buildup of CO2, so I'm afraid that's not an option :(

 

[kudaphillips]

Sorry to bother you all again, this time it's a question about hyperventilating for the exit bag method. Someone said it wasn't strictly necessary, but I'm a smoker and don't want to wait too long before the lights go out, so aside from not smoking for two days prior, I also intend to do the two minutes of hyperventilating beforehand. Now it makes sense to me that it should be done while the bag is inflating on top of your head, which should also take a couple of minutes (including the time to wash out remaining air). But I haven't seen any confirmation of this. Could anyone pitch in? Frankly speaking the idea of hyperventilating beforehand is a bit off-putting to me, as it definitely makes for a much more energizing and therefore nerve-wracking experience (as if it won't be already). I used to do some Wim Hof breathing, which combines a form of hyperventilating with retention, and the retention part is actually very soothing and relaxing. But unfortunately that's exactly the part that makes for a buildup of CO2, so I'm afraid that's not an option :(

I hate hyperventilating also, did a lot of wim hoff. In my opinion I think 2 full minutes of it is overkill .

I think Ill do it for 20-30 seconds so that I can have less desire to breath after the exhale , whie I pull the bag down , strap my hands , and give any ambient air that got in during the pull down time to blow out before I take the big breath

 

[littleadonis]

Guys, if people might have problems with the bag leaking, why not put one bag on top of another? What I'm saying is, make one exit bag and then put a second oven bag over it. It's harmless and unimpeding, it's easy, it makes the method more reliable, and oven bags are cheap and come in packs anyway. Why not just put one unmade bag over a made bag?

 

[kudaphillips]

Guys, if people might have problems with the bag leaking, why not put one bag on top of another? What I'm saying is, make one exit bag and then put a second oven bag over it. It's harmless and unimpeding, it's easy, it makes the method more reliable, and oven bags are cheap and come in packs anyway. Why not just put one unmade bag over a made bag?

Interesting idea . I don't see a problem with it . Only thing is I haven't heard of bag leaking being an issue . Even if there were micro holes in the bag I think it would still function , air wouldn't get in because of the positive pressure .
Think about it … there's basically holes in the bottom of the bag around your neck , it's not air tight . But anything to feel more comfortable. Why not .

I did my usually daily attempt and chickened out as usual and got mad and tried to rip the bag and I honestly couldn't . The bags are freaking durable . Theyr Meant to cook a turkey at 350 degrees for several hours .

 

[littleadonis]

Only thing is I haven't heard of bag leaking being an issue .

I have seen at least three claims in the small amount of time I've been on the site without looking for them where a person complained that the method didn't work and that they didn't even feel themselves going unconscious. They blamed it on the manufacturers lying about the purity but I and others postulated that it might be a leak in the bag or a different problem with the setup.

Even if there were micro holes in the bag I think it would still function , air wouldn't get in because of the positive pressure .
Think about it … there's basically holes in the bottom of the bag around your neck , it's not air tight .

As far as I understand it, the nitrogen is lighter than the air and co2 so the gravity along with the pressure from the gas flow coming from a hose that should be near the top of the inside of the bag should lead to the n2 purging all the regular air and co2 downwards and out the bag.

I did my usually daily attempt and chickened out as usual and got mad and tried to rip the bag and I honestly couldn't . The bags are freaking durable . Theyr Meant to cook a turkey at 350 degrees for several hours .

Maybe it wasn't the bag that failed then. It might have been something like the hose leaking. It's hard to say from here.

 

[kudaphillips]

I have seen at least three claims in the small amount of time I've been on the site without looking for them where a person complained that the method didn't work and that they didn't even feel themselves going unconscious. They blamed it on the manufacturers lying about the purity but I and others postulated that it might be a leak in the bag or a different problem with the setup.

As far as I understand it, the nitrogen is lighter than the air and co2 so the gravity along with the pressure from the gas flow coming from a hose that should be near the top of the inside of the bag should lead to the n2 purging all the regular air and co2 downwards and out the bag.

Maybe it wasn't the bag that failed then. It might have been something like the hose leaking. It's hard to say from here.

ya leaks are def a concern but more in the regulator threads / hose etc. you can check for leaks in the bag by inflating it then feeling for leaks . Can check the threads and tube with soap water and check for bubbles .One of the videos demonstrated this , not Betty but another one .

But like I said I don't think I see a problem with double bagging if it makes one feel
More comfortable . But I just know the bags are fucking insanely durable , at least the brand I have . I've been at it for a couple years tons of bags tons of tests never seen one leak .

Now if you leave one out and the cat claws it or something I could see it . But I make sure nothing touches mine .

 

[littleadonis]

ya leaks are def a concern but more in the regulator threads / hose etc.

I guess a wrench is necessary then.

Can check the threads and tube with soap water and check for bubbles .One of the videos demonstrated this , not Betty but another one .

Do you have a link?

 

[kudaphillips]

Trying to post link but it's not working . The guy just inflates the bag and kinda puts pressure on it and feels with his face for leaks .

Ya def wrench needed for some regulators

 

[littleadonis]

Trying to post link but it's not working . The guy just inflates the bag and kinda puts pressure on it and feels with his face for leaks .

No I mean the video you were talking about of the guy testing the connectors and hose.

 

[Tommen Baratheon]

I'm actually going to start by making the exit bag. I do have a question about the hose. I got an aquarium hose that seems to fit tightly onto the hose barb that came with the regulator. Internal diameter is 6 mm. That should be fine, right? Much appreciated!

You can buy oxygen tubing from a pharmacy (or Amzn) as well. I think they're about 6 mm.

Where did you hear this? I was just about to buy a 35x43cm oven bag that I thought would be more than enough.

The smaller it is the more likely it's going to get stuck in your mouth while breathing. I think that's the logic behind the size.

 

[littleadonis]

What do we think is the best excuse when collecting a gas cylinder? I think saying that you're using the gas to fill tyres is the best because everyone has access to tyres presumably and anyone might desire an oxygen free environment for their tyres. Although I think it maybe best to say bike tyres?? Because car tyres are really big requiring a lot of gas and that would be contradictory to the relatively small cylinder that you're collecting.

 

[Endoflifer]

Where I live you don't need an excuse, but you can always say you're picking it up for a welding job someone else is going to carry out, so you don't need to know anything about it.

Now I've been trying out a few different bags I made and checking the setup for leaks. Turned out the regulator wasn't attached tightly enough and some leakage showed (I used leak detecting spray). After tightening the bolt more with a wrench the leakage had stopped. Now my 200 bars are already down to 185, and I haven't had the cylinder valve open for more than two minutes altogether. Even with some leakage, that seems like a steep drop to me. I have a 5-liter cylinder, so I guess I should still be fine. Is the bar pressure drop linear? Should I be worried? I don't know how to go from here, to be honest. Maybe let it flow for another few minutes and see if it still drops as quickly (and hope that it doesn't)?

 

[outrider567]

Where I live you don't need an excuse, but you can always say you're picking it up for a welding job someone else is going to carry out, so you don't need to know anything about it.

Now I've been trying out a few different bags I made and checking the setup for leaks. Turned out the regulator wasn't attached tightly enough and some leakage showed (I used leak detecting spray). After tightening the bolt more with a wrench the leakage had stopped. Now my 200 bars are already down to 185, and I haven't had the cylinder valve open for more than two minutes altogether. Even with some leakage, that seems like a steep drop to me. I have a 5-liter cylinder, so I guess I should still be fine. Is the bar pressure drop linear? Should I be worried? I don't know how to go from here, to be honest. Maybe let it flow for another few minutes and see if it still drops as quickly (and hope that it doesn't)?

I've never tested mine for leaks, no need to, because Greenberg always stated to always use a wrench to tighten it securely