Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[DeadHead]

If I order a tank of oxygen-free nitrogen and a regulator in the UK, from a source named in the PPH, am I likely to run into any issues or will it be delivered without question? This might have been asked before but I wondered what the current status is on ordering such things, as I know there has been a crackdown on ordering SN recently. It's going to cost me the best part of £200 so I don't want to waste money I don't have. I've already lost money ordering SN that got intercepted. Thanks.

Many of those sources no longer sell to residential addresses, trade only. After much searching I found one that sells to residential addresses. Delivery was a pain, but it arrived. Another user here ordered from same place straight after I did and had a better delivery experience. You need to read the small print. The place I was originally going to order from had a clause hidden away that said if you didn't return the cylinder within a specified time frame, they would charge you.

 

[David8886]

To Use:

If I found all this on the internet, I'm sure you can, but maybe these will address a few of the questions I've encountered here.

Start by sitting upright in a chair. My understanding is that you should not be lying down, and that you want to be confident you won't fall over when you black out, as any final twitching with your head rumpling the bag against whatever you are lying on might displace the bag enough to allow the inert gas to escape.

I have heard fears of convulsions with this method, but I have also heard —more plausibly— that accounts of convulsions are more accurately associated with sedated-suffocation (a predecessor to this inert gas technique) rather than to inert gas asphyxiation. However, a few final twitches are possible as the electrical activity in the brain fades, and it would be tragic to have the attempt ruined by not taking the simple precaution of being sitting up and stable.

To feel confident that any post-mortem twitching will not knock the cylinder over and jerk the tube out of the exit bag, secure the cylinder to the leg of your chair. I use a piece of webbing; duct tape or a length of cord would work.

If you wear glasses, as I do, remove them. They will be a hindrance when you need to pull the gas-filled bag down over your face, and will allow space for air to remain in the bag.

To pre-fit the drawcord, pull the bag down over your head and face. Tighten the elastic drawcord around your neck so that it's snug, but not cinched tight. You should be able to fit your fingers under it.

Lift the bag up off your face so that the drawcord is now around your temples and just above your eyebrows, below your ears and around the back of your neck, like a shower cap. After adjusting the drawcord to your neck, it will feel tight around your head; this is good.

Scrunch ALL the air out of the bag. The more air you can remove, the faster the inert gas will take effect. If you ignore this step, your attempt will likely fail.

At this point the end of the hose should be inside the bag. I have long hair, so I secure the end of the hose at the back of my head with a hair elastic. Others have taped the end of the hose securely to the inside of the bag with more micropore tape.

If you have long hair, like I do, make sure it is bundled up inside the exit bag, not sticking out under the drawcord.

With the regulator closed, open the valve of the cylinder. There will be a sharp hiss as the regulator fills.

Open the regulator and adjust the flow of gas to 15Lpm. The gas flowing through the tube was surprisingly loud to me, and a bit distracting. Someone here kindly recommended earplugs, which I may do on my next attempt. Or I may listen to music; I doubt earbud wires will displace the drawcord.

The bag will gradually inflate above your head. It will take a minute or two to reach full inflation.

As the bag is inflating, take deep breaths, exhaling fully, to purge as much CO2 as possible from the depths of your lungs.

When the bag is inflated and you're ready, exhale as completely as possible and hold your lungs empty. Slide the bag down over your face and settle the elastic comfortably around your neck. Finally, inhale as deeply as possible; breathe slowly and deeply.

Can you add related pictures to each part

 

[outrider567]

As far as I know, the recommended purity is 2.8 (99.8%). A higher degree of purification can be used, but a lower degree should not be used

Anything 99.0% and above is acceptable and lethal, as per Greenberg

hello everyone, thank you for the advice. My apologies if someone already ask this question.
I have my n2 setup ready. I've tested the setup to fill the bag, and it inflated fully in about 2 minutes, didn't seem to have any leaking.
but I don't have oxygen detector to test the n2 purity or o2 inside the bag. Found this one online but it's too costly for me.

View attachment 123945


Is there other less costly way to test the o2 level, or can I do without? thanks in advance

hello everyone, thank you for the advice. My apologies if someone already ask this question.
I have my n2 setup ready. I've tested the setup to fill the bag, and it inflated fully in about 2 minutes, didn't seem to have any leaking.
but I don't have oxygen detector to test the n2 purity or o2 inside the bag. Found this one online but it's too costly for me.

View attachment 123945


Is there other less costly way to test the o2 level, or can I do without? thanks in advance

Just get an oximeter and test your oxygen drop on yourself, take 4 or 5 deep breaths, take the hood off and then watch your oxygen level drop to 50 or lower

hello everyone, thank you for the advice. My apologies if someone already ask this question.
I have my n2 setup ready. I've tested the setup to fill the bag, and it inflated fully in about 2 minutes, didn't seem to have any leaking.
but I don't have oxygen detector to test the n2 purity or o2 inside the bag. Found this one online but it's too costly for me.

View attachment 123945


Is there other less costly way to test the o2 level, or can I do without? thanks in advance

Just get an oximeter and test your oxygen drop on yourself, take 4 or 5 deep breaths, take the hood off and then watch your oxygen level drop to 50 or lower

Apologies if this has been mentioned before, but I watched a video by Vice that claimed that once you pull the bag down and breathe in the inert gas, you should lose consciousness withing a FRACTION OF A SECOND, so basically immediately (as long as you exhale and hold your breath for a minute before you pull the bag down, I believe).

Why does it seem that people are taking much longer than that to pass out? It allows SI to kick in and it's the major cause for failed attempts, it looks like. Are people just not holding their breath for a minute before pulling the bag down?

'Fraction of a second'! A total lie---It takes about 10 breaths to pass out, at least 30 seconds--I don't know who this 'Vice' is, but just ignore him, and read Greenberg's posts on pages 40 to 70 on the Mega Thread

 

[Username1]

Можете ли вы подробнее рассказать о необходимости такой высокой чистоты?

I remember seeing this value many times in answers to the gas purity question. So I just repeated it. Perhaps cleaner gas might help in a situation where air somehow gets into the hood, perhaps it would leave less chance of air intrusion being critical to the ctb. Perhaps this is more relevant to ExitBag and to a lesser extent EEBD than it is to SCBA. But I don't know how air currents behave and whether cleanliness in the 96-99% range might be an important factor in some situations.

There isn't any reason to get any purity under 2.8 (99.8%), that's basically the minium you see in any gas shop.
A 2.8 cylinder was used by @LetzteAusfahrt to assist suicide.

Все, что 99,0% и выше, приемлемо и смертельно, согласно Гринбергу

Speaking of Greenberg, I asked if anyone had his saved blog, but no one replied or private messaged me. I'd like to read it. If anyone has it, please send it to me.

Просто возьмите оксиметр и проверьте падение кислорода на себе, сделайте 4 или 5 глубоких вдохов, снимите капот, а затем посмотрите, как ваш уровень кислорода падает до 50 или ниже.

I incidentally about a month ago put on a homemade ExitBag with no inert gas flow that I tightened down hard and pressed my hand against my neck to keep ambient air out. I used an oximeter. I was just expending O2 and storing CO2, I was interested to see how it felt. As I remember I took the ExitBag off when the oximeter showed 44%, I took it off because I was afraid I might pass out and die. I was breathing very fast, it was uncomfortable, but I controlled myself and could have lasted a little longer. I had a little headache afterwards.

 

[Intoxicated]

Perhaps cleaner gas might help in a situation where air somehow gets into the hood, perhaps it would leave less chance of air intrusion being critical to the ctb. Perhaps this is more relevant to ExitBag and to a lesser extent EEBD than it is to SCBA. But I don't know how air currents behave and whether cleanliness in the 96-99% range might be an important factor in some situations.

I didn't consider EEBD and SCUBA methods in detail, but it's easy to explain how air can enter an exit bag with the suggested design. When you breathe in, you reduce the pressure inside the bag, and the gas flow of 15 - 20 LPM coming from the gas tank may be insufficient for keeping it at 1 atm or above at such moments, then the ambient air will be sucked in through the holes which serve for evacuation of gases from the bag. For example, if we inhale 0.5 L in 1 second, this corresponds to temporary flow of -30 LPM which won't be compensated by +20 LPM from the cylinder.

Perhaps, increasing the flow rate of inert gas could play a bigger role in negating this design flaw than the difference between 0.2% and 2% O2 in the inert gas.

 

[FailerQt.]

Hello I want to make today or tomorrow my last day, but I have a small problem. The cord for the exit bag I ordered is way too thick and hard, difficult to stretch. It is the black one (supposed to be 8mm) on the image whi h I bought and the grey one is what I took from one of my jackets. I want to use the grey one as it's not difficult to stretch compared to the black one, but I am not sure, will it be enough? Thanks for any help and advice. I will write a purely goodbye thread when the time is right.

 

[timewarp24]

Is there a N2 supplier in the UK who will do home delivery?

I've looked at the suggested sites but due to my circumstance a pickup isn't an option.

 

[Username1]

Is there a N2 supplier in the UK who will do home delivery?

I've looked at the suggested sites but due to my circumstance a pickup isn't an option.

If someone knows the source, then according to the rules they won't be able to give it to you here. He would send you a private message, but it's not available to you yet, they will be open when you have 20 posts. You can collect them by participating in the games category.

Hello I want to make today or tomorrow my last day, but I have a small problem. The cord for the exit bag I ordered is way too thick and hard, difficult to stretch. It is the black one (supposed to be 8mm) on the image whi h I bought and the grey one is what I took from one of my jackets. I want to use the grey one as it's not difficult to stretch compared to the black one, but I am not sure, will it be enough? Thanks for any help and advice. I will write a purely goodbye thread when the time is right.
View attachment 124022

I'd go with the gray.

 

[Falling Slowly]

Why does it seem that people are taking much longer than that to pass out? It allows SI to kick in and it's the major cause for failed attempts, it looks like. Are people just not holding their breath for a minute before pulling the bag down?

It probably varies depending on the setup. SCBA and SCUBA setups would probably lead to a quicker loss of consciousness. EEBD hood and Exit bag probably takes 30-60 seconds.

I see what you're saying about it being preferable to lose consciousness quicker to try and avoid S.I., but ultimately if S.I. hits you, you have to deal with it no matter how long it takes to lose consciousness. S.I. has prevented people using 'quick' methods such as gunshot or jumping from a height. These methods only take a split second to carry out, but S.I. in the build-up has prevented some people from ctb.

Is there a N2 supplier in the UK who will do home delivery?

I've looked at the suggested sites but due to my circumstance a pickup isn't an option.

See @DeadHead 's post 8 posts above.

 

[Falling Slowly]

Speaking of Greenberg, I asked if anyone had his saved blog, but no one replied or private messaged me. I'd like to read it. If anyone has it, please send it to me.

I doubt you'll get anyone having that blog downloaded. I think Greenberg was going with a SCBA setup in the end. Someone once linked a 17 page pdf of a posters SCUBA setup. It would have some similarities to SCBA. I'm not going with SCBA or SCUBA setup, so I only skimmed through the pdf, don't know if it's any good. But I'll link it here if you want to look at it.

 

[David8886]

It probably varies depending on the setup. SCBA and SCUBA setups would probably lead to a quicker loss of consciousness. EEBD hood and Exit bag probably takes 30-60 seconds.

I see what you're saying about it being preferable to lose consciousness quicker to try and avoid S.I., but ultimately if S.I. hits you, you have to deal with it no matter how long it takes to lose consciousness. S.I. has prevented people using 'quick' methods such as gunshot or jumping from a height. These methods only take a split second to carry out, but S.I. in the build-up has prevented some people from ctb.


See @DeadHead 's post 8 posts above.

It is mentioned that if the mask did not fall, there was a possibility of brain damage
What does this text specifically refer to!
If these injuries are serious, what is the reason to use this method in euthanasia

 

[Falling Slowly]

It is mentioned that if the mask did not fall, there was a possibility of brain damage
What does this text specifically refer to!
If these injuries are serious, what is the reason to use this method in euthanasia

That guy wasn't trying to ctb, he was doing what's called a 'blackout test', to see how long it would take to lose consciousness. To do that with a SCUBA/SCBA setup, you hold the mask to your face, and turn on the gas (as opposed to strapping the mask to your face). When you lose consciousness, the mask falls away as your hand drops, so the person's mouth is no longer inhaling nitrogen.

The guy was just surprised how quickly he lost consciousness, and he"s just warning people not to fool around with the setup (i.e. if you're not ctb'ing). If you did the blackout test with the mask attached, and were found after a few mins, (i e. not long enough to ctb), then the risk is that you could have brain damage.

Obviously if the mask doesn't fall, and you're inhaling the inert gas for long enough, you will ctb.

 

[Yuna is My Waifu]

Well at least we know it works good, its a nice thought.

 

[k1w1]

hello everyone, thank you for the advice. My apologies if someone already ask this question.
I have my n2 setup ready. I've tested the setup to fill the bag, and it inflated fully in about 2 minutes, didn't seem to have any leaking.
but I don't have oxygen detector to test the n2 purity or o2 inside the bag. Found this one online but it's too costly for me.

View attachment 123945


Is there other less costly way to test the o2 level, or can I do without? thanks in advance

Yeah, theyre costly. What about a fingertip oxygen sensor Anyone mention that?

Hello I want to make today or tomorrow my last day, but I have a small problem. The cord for the exit bag I ordered is way too thick and hard, difficult to stretch. It is the black one (supposed to be 8mm) on the image whi h I bought and the grey one is what I took from one of my jackets. I want to use the grey one as it's not difficult to stretch compared to the black one, but I am not sure, will it be enough? Thanks for any help and advice. I will write a purely goodbye thread when the time is right.
View attachment 124022

what is wrong with clear plastic medical/other hose? That weave covered one will be too thick. Let us know how you get on.

I read somewhere Alabama is now using this instead of N.

Alabama would try torching its victims a la the Spanish inquisition if they could. There have been several well publicised fails using various chemical concoctions. Not to mention that the catheters were inserted by non-medical staff. Damn....keeping someone on death row for years is a misery in itself. I suppose we will have to wait and see what the venerable old senators come up with. One thing is certain, anyone considering this method should get their Nitrogen ASAP as there'll be a rash of press on the topic with potential implications for availability.

 

[David8886]

That guy wasn't trying to ctb, he was doing what's called a 'blackout test', to see how long it would take to lose consciousness. To do that with a SCUBA/SCBA setup, you hold the mask to your face, and turn on the gas (as opposed to strapping the mask to your face). When you lose consciousness, the mask falls away as your hand drops, so the person's mouth is no longer inhaling nitrogen.

The guy was just surprised how quickly he lost consciousness, and he"s just warning people not to fool around with the setup (i.e. if you're not ctb'ing). If you did the blackout test with the mask attached, and were found after a few mins, (i e. not long enough to ctb), then the risk is that you could have brain damage.

Obviously if the mask doesn't fall, and you're inhaling the inert gas for long enough, you will ctb.

So you mean that if we are rescued during suicide and before complete death, there is a possibility of brain damage due to oxygen reaching the brain.
1- What is the percentage of this happening
2- How much time is required to die with helium and nitrogen
3- Does helium or nitrogen gas have to be 100% pure
4- Is this type of death painless

 

[Yuna is My Waifu]

So you mean that if we are rescued during suicide and before complete death, there is a possibility of brain damage due to oxygen reaching the brain.
1- What is the percentage of this happening
2- How much time is required to die with helium and nitrogen
3- Does helium or nitrogen gas have to be 100% pure
4- Is this type of death painless

All this stuff has been answered multiple times already in the topic.

 

[David8886]

All this stuff has been answered multiple times already in the topic.

please send me link thanks

 

[Falling Slowly]

So you mean that if we are rescued during suicide and before complete death, there is a possibility of brain damage due to oxygen reaching the brain.
1- What is the percentage of this happening
2- How much time is required to die with helium and nitrogen
3- Does helium or nitrogen gas have to be 100% pure
4- Is this type of death painless

Well, I'm not an expert on inert gas deaths/ctb, but yes, if you're unconscious long enough and rescued before ctb, then there is that possibility. It's not guaranteed, but instead of your brain receiving oxygen, it will be receiving near 100% nitrogen/other inert gas. This causes a thing called hypoxia, which can potentially damage the brain.

But as regards your questions:
1) no idea
2) The peaceful pill handbook says 5-10 mins
3) As near to 100% as possible. I think the figure people usually give is > 99. @intoxitated says > 98% should be ok (see his post above, post #4,149 )
4) Meant to be, according to the PPH. And Dignitas(Swiss right-to-assisted-dying organisation) who did the inert gas method on one occasion.

I came across a piece about a South Korean man who went to a hospital, 5 days after he attempted to ctb via nitrogen and a plastic bag. Not sure exactly what his setup was, or how much gas he had. The paper just said he lost consciousness, then regained it a few hours later (I presume he didn't have enough gas to ctb).
Anyway, he showed up at the hospital with symptoms of diplopia (double vision), headache, and numbness and cramping in his hands. A CT scan showed no abnormalities; an MRI scan showed some high signal intensity in parts of his brain. But his symptoms improved, and he was released after 15 days, with no apparent damage to his brain.
Again, hard to know if he just had enough nitrogen to lose consciousness, but maybe didn't have enough to ctb. It's here if you want to look at it.

In 2008, Dignitas did an inert gas trial of 4 people (they usually use pentobarbital when doing assisted suicide), where they hooked up helium to a face mask. The times it took to lose consciousness, and die, are shown here:


They said the reason the fourth person took a lot longer to ctb (~40 mins versus ~5-9 mins for the others), was probably because her mask was not as tight-fitting. As euthanasia is illegal there (as opposed to assisted suicide), the attendants could not adjust the person's mask to ensure its tightness. (all of it was filmed for the police, as assisted suicide often is by Dignitas).

Pic of type of mask used:


Full pdf study paper on that Dignitas trial can be downloaded free from here.

 

[David8886]

Well, I'm not an expert on inert gas deaths/ctb, but yes, if you're unconscious long enough and rescued before ctb, then there is that possibility. It's not guaranteed, but instead of your brain receiving oxygen, it will be receiving near 100% nitrogen/other inert gas. This causes a thing called hypoxia, which can potentially damage the brain.

But as regards your questions:
1) no idea
2) The peaceful pill handbook says 5-10 mins
3) As near to 100% as possible. I think the figure people usually give is > 99. @intoxitated says > 98% should be ok (see his post above, post #4,149 )
4) Meant to be, according to the PPH. And Dignitas(Swiss right-to-assisted-dying organisation) who did the inert gas method on one occasion.

I came across a piece about a South Korean man who went to a hospital, 5 days after he attempted to ctb via nitrogen and a plastic bag. Not sure exactly what his setup was, or how much gas he had. The paper just said he lost consciousness, then regained it a few hours later (I presume he didn't have enough gas to ctb).
Anyway, he showed up at the hospital with symptoms of diplopia (double vision), headache, and numbness and cramping in his hands. A CT scan showed no abnormalities; an MRI scan showed some high signal intensity in parts of his brain. But his symptoms improved, and he was released after 15 days, with no apparent damage to his brain.
Again, hard to know if he just had enough nitrogen to lose consciousness, but maybe didn't have enough to ctb. It's here if you want to look at it.

In 2008, Dignitas did an inert gas trial of 4 people (they usually use pentobarbital when doing assisted suicide), where they hooked up helium to a face mask. The times it took to lose consciousness, and die, are shown here:
View attachment 124236

They said the reason the fourth person took a lot longer to ctb (~40 mins versus ~5-9 mins for the others), was probably because her mask was not as tight-fitting. As euthanasia is illegal there (as opposed to assisted suicide), the attendants could not adjust the person's mask to ensure its tightness. (all of it was filmed for the police, as assisted suicide often is by Dignitas).

Pic of type of mask used:
View attachment 124239

Full pdf study paper on that Dignitas trial can be downloaded free from here.

thank you so so much

 

[WrongWayGoBack]

I ordered this one. It looks to come with the regulator which does L/min and has enough gas for 16 minutes at 15 L/min which I hope is long enough. I plan to use just an oven bag and drive to the wilderness to do it.

Should I get a backup tank in case this one fails to do the job?

 

[Mare Imbrium]

I would take two of these bottles and connect them with a t-connector.

 

[DeadManLiving]

You're not doing anything wrong, it's just 10 seconds isn't long enough. According to those who did a blackout test, you don't feel anything, unconsciousness just hits you instantly. If you're feeling any suffocation feelings, it's due to CO2. A small bit of CO2 in the hood is normal, especially if there's no exhalation valve on it. But you shouldn't be feeling any suffocation feelings.

A CO2 scrubber on the one-way flap exhaust/vent port would / should purge all residual CO2, and O2 scrubbers inside the respirator's cavity would get it to as pure as N2 can be, if properly sealed.

As far as SI, heavy sedatives. If you can strap your self/head locked "in-place" an epic dose of benzos should knock you out hard and cold for even as long as a day. Just don't forget to activate everything and triple check beforehand.

What about NO2 laughing gas? I'd like to try dying laughing.

I'm doing Liquid Nitrogen in a confined space following the reports of industrial accidents where nitrogenized confined spaces (vehicle cabin, pipeline) resulted in death within minutes, passing out within a breath or two. Recent LN2 leak at chicken factory resulted in mass casulaties, and this was even in a wide open space. I guess since the cold vapor as it evaporates from liquid-to-gas at 1:695 and heavier partial pressure the cryogenic state saturated the atmosphere from bottom up. Plus cold nitrogen gas condenses the oxygen from your lungs (and air) besides displacing it. Most recent industrial accident at a plant report read a pipeline was purged with N2 and its end was covered with some tarp a day ago. Apparently that was enough to kill the first worker and second one who was near the endpoint passed out. The atmosphere was definately below 98% since it wasn't actively purging and the N2 couldn't have gotten that far out into the line since the source was a long way away. Plus, there was a wind draft, and the purge cycle ran 24 hours ago. Even then, that was apparently enough (I figure 94% N2 at best; the report doesn't say) but he was out in a wink.

 

[huphup]

Hi, I would like to buy a tank that is filled with N2 in Canada. It seems you need to have an account or be a company. Does anyone know of any places (preferrably online) where I could get one, or any tips? Looking for something on the smaller end that I could use in my car.

 

[huphup]

Could someone point me towards a source for a EEBD hood or something similar, I am located in Canada

 

[k1w1]

View attachment 124485

I ordered this one. It looks to come with the regulator which does L/min and has enough gas for 16 minutes at 15 L/min which I hope is long enough. I plan to use just an oven bag and drive to the wilderness to do it.

Should I get a backup tank in case this one fails to do the job?

dont post sources as it burns it down for others

View attachment 124485

I ordered this one. It looks to come with the regulator which does L/min and has enough gas for 16 minutes at 15 L/min which I hope is long enough. I plan to use just an oven bag and drive to the wilderness to do it.

Should I get a backup tank in case this one fails to do the job?

its not big enough. go 9 litres

Could someone point me towards a source for a EEBD hood or something similar, I am located in Canada

Do a search on Chinese sites. Read Vizzy's post which will point you in the right direction.

 

[ClownWorld2023]

I'm doing Liquid Nitrogen in a confined space

Have you sourced the LN2 yet and tested it?

Does it have any side effects like the room temperature rapidly dropping or even freezing?

 

[outrider567]

So you mean that if we are rescued during suicide and before complete death, there is a possibility of brain damage due to oxygen reaching the brain.
1- What is the percentage of this happening
2- How much time is required to die with helium and nitrogen
3- Does helium or nitrogen gas have to be 100% pure
4- Is this type of death painless

It will never happen with me, rescue before death would be impossible--My body won't be discovered for many days--When I text the few people I know, I only text them every few days--No one will get suspicious for many days, maybe a week

 

[jatty]

Hey guys, is it okay to use a 70% argon + 20% co2 flowmeter/ regulator for a nitrogen tank? The one I'm looking at looks (to me) exactly the same as rejected's. I'm just worried if the co2 calibration can mess up the lpm. Thanks

 

[ftm68_99]

Exit Bag and Inert Gas Basics —A very, very long post, I know, but I feel like I've fielded a lot of questions about this, so I figured I'd spell out everything I know. Others on the forum should please add to this thread whatever reliable technical information they feel is appropriate for someone attempting this method to have.

The idea behind using an exit bag with inert gas is to create an atmosphere around your head that is both free of life-sustaining O2 and can carry away the exhaled CO2 that would activate your hypercapnic alarm.

The Gas:

You will need to keep the inert gas flowing at 15 liters per minute (Lpm) for 40 minutes to be confident of ending your life —in other words, you'll need a minimum of 600 liters of inert gas. In the past this would have been helium (He), but due to the uncertain availability of genuinely pure He, the best current options are nitrogen (N2) and argon (Ar). Both are reliably available in pure form (no air contamination) from stores that supply welders. N2 is also available from some brewery supply houses, but the purity of the gas should be confirmed to your satisfaction. Both N2 and Ar should work to ctb and are similar enough in their properties to be treated identically for use with an exit bag.

Pressurized gas cylinder sizes are not standardized across the industry, nor internationally, and it can be difficult, if not impossible, to tell how much gas they contain from a photograph on a website.

In the US, a 20 cubic foot (cf) cylinder is the smallest you should use for ctb; a 40cf will allow some margin for flinching, practicing, etc. "A 20cf" and "a 40cf", or "a 20" and "a 40" is nomenclature US welding supply houses will recognize, so asking for either should get you the desired product. A 20cf cylinder is quite small for industrial use; I've had clerks tell me, "well, we have a 40, but we'll need to special order a 20." It's up to you what you do in that situation. Personally, I have a 40cf cylinder. It has allowed me to flinch and abort my attempt three times now, and I don't need to worry about refilling it. I bought my N2 at AirGas, a national company here in the US. They do not demand any sort of professional certification for purchasing inert gas, and no more than the usual forms of ID depending on payment method.

I know nothing of gas cylinders outside the US, so if you are using other than US-typical cylinders, you'll need to call and ask to make sure whatever tank you're contemplating holds 600L of compressed gas. Hopefully knowledgeable forum members will add cylinder sizing information to this knowledge base.

Cover story: N2 and Ar are both used for welding. N2 is used in beer brewing. In my day job, I use both N2 and Ar to flood partial cans of expensive paint, to displace the O2 in the cans and prevent the paint from skinning over and going bad. It's a cost saving measure. The clerks I've bought gas from have never heard of that trick, which has meant they don't know enough to interrogate me on my motives or to try and quiz me on my welding knowledge. They have merely said, "huh! That's a new one!"

The store clerk may ask how you're carrying the pressurized cylinder "back to your shop," since pressurized cylinders can be very hazardous to transport (the valve is vulnerable to damage in an accident). I haven't had any trouble when I have told the clerk, "in the back footwell of my car, and very carefully padded!" What they really want to know is that you are aware that a pressurized cylinder is a missile waiting to explode if anything damages it, and that you know enough to not let that happen.

Is there a regulator or some sort that we would use to make sure the gas is flowing at 15 liters per minute? Thanks.

Exit Bag and Inert Gas Basics —A very, very long post, I know, but I feel like I've fielded a lot of questions about this, so I figured I'd spell out everything I know. Others on the forum should please add to this thread whatever reliable technical information they feel is appropriate for someone attempting this method to have.

The idea behind using an exit bag with inert gas is to create an atmosphere around your head that is both free of life-sustaining O2 and can carry away the exhaled CO2 that would activate your hypercapnic alarm.

The Gas:

You will need to keep the inert gas flowing at 15 liters per minute (Lpm) for 40 minutes to be confident of ending your life —in other words, you'll need a minimum of 600 liters of inert gas. In the past this would have been helium (He), but due to the uncertain availability of genuinely pure He, the best current options are nitrogen (N2) and argon (Ar). Both are reliably available in pure form (no air contamination) from stores that supply welders. N2 is also available from some brewery supply houses, but the purity of the gas should be confirmed to your satisfaction. Both N2 and Ar should work to ctb and are similar enough in their properties to be treated identically for use with an exit bag.

Pressurized gas cylinder sizes are not standardized across the industry, nor internationally, and it can be difficult, if not impossible, to tell how much gas they contain from a photograph on a website.

In the US, a 20 cubic foot (cf) cylinder is the smallest you should use for ctb; a 40cf will allow some margin for flinching, practicing, etc. "A 20cf" and "a 40cf", or "a 20" and "a 40" is nomenclature US welding supply houses will recognize, so asking for either should get you the desired product. A 20cf cylinder is quite small for industrial use; I've had clerks tell me, "well, we have a 40, but we'll need to special order a 20." It's up to you what you do in that situation. Personally, I have a 40cf cylinder. It has allowed me to flinch and abort my attempt three times now, and I don't need to worry about refilling it. I bought my N2 at AirGas, a national company here in the US. They do not demand any sort of professional certification for purchasing inert gas, and no more than the usual forms of ID depending on payment method.

I know nothing of gas cylinders outside the US, so if you are using other than US-typical cylinders, you'll need to call and ask to make sure whatever tank you're contemplating holds 600L of compressed gas. Hopefully knowledgeable forum members will add cylinder sizing information to this knowledge base.

Cover story: N2 and Ar are both used for welding. N2 is used in beer brewing. In my day job, I use both N2 and Ar to flood partial cans of expensive paint, to displace the O2 in the cans and prevent the paint from skinning over and going bad. It's a cost saving measure. The clerks I've bought gas from have never heard of that trick, which has meant they don't know enough to interrogate me on my motives or to try and quiz me on my welding knowledge. They have merely said, "huh! That's a new one!"

The store clerk may ask how you're carrying the pressurized cylinder "back to your shop," since pressurized cylinders can be very hazardous to transport (the valve is vulnerable to damage in an accident). I haven't had any trouble when I have told the clerk, "in the back footwell of my car, and very carefully padded!" What they really want to know is that you are aware that a pressurized cylinder is a missile waiting to explode if anything damages it, and that you know enough to not let that happen.

Sorry, I see you answered my question about the regulator in the next post.

 

[ftm68_99]

My experience was that I soon began to feel tingling in my hands, as if they were falling asleep. A short moment later I began to get dizzy, and my vision went grey around the edges. Each of the three times I have attempted this method, that's as far as I got before I flinched and removed the bag.

I did not experience any pain whatsoever, and no real discomfort aside from the mild tingling in my hands.

I do not believe I have suffered any ill effects from three aborted attempts. I had a bit of a cough for a couple days after my third attempt, but I can't say for sure whether that was attributable to the N2. It concerns me only in that this method demands that you be able to breathe freely in order for it to be effective, and I don't want to have ruined my chances to use it later, when I have summoned my courage.

My greatest difficulty is that I have been very stressed during my attempts, and could not keep my breathing steady and deep. This undoubtedly lengthened the amount of time it should have taken for me to black out.

In the stress of the situation, I experienced time dilation —in other words, I can't tell you how long it took for me to feel dizzy; it might have been five seconds, it might have been a minute and a half. It wasn't very long —but it was long enough for me to flinch.

From my experience, this is as painless, comfortable, and potentially peaceful a way to ctb as it is rumored to be. The only drawbacks that I can see are that it requires a lot of equipment —cylinder, regulator, hose, bag— and that there is a surprising amount of time for your survival instinct to kick in, or for second thoughts.

As I wrote at the beginning, I hope other forum members can fill in some of the blanks I have left —specifically, I have seen a lot of questions about tank sizes outside the US that I cannot answer.

I don't wish anyone good luck at catching the bus. I wish we could all find our way to a joyous and satisfying life that would make death an unfortunate reality rather than a longed-for relief. But all of us here know that the Fates aren't always that kind, and so I wish you all the most peaceful relief from your pain that you can find, and if that peace is brought by Death, I hope Death comes gently.

What a kind, loving and understanding final paragraph. Thank you.