Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[Adios Amigos]

Hi, l'm in Australia too. I think we have been looking at the same website, can l pm you please?

sure

 

[my-end]

With an Argon or CO₂ detector.
A CO₂ detector would be much cheaper, put it inside a bag and fill it with your gas.
View attachment 107343

Just fyi, found a method of using limewater to detect co2. Bubble gas through limewater, it will become opaque white if co2 present.

 

[Nitrohelpasap]

The Regulator:

A regulator screws on to the cylinder and does two things: 1) it reduces the pressure in the cylinder to a useable level, otherwise the 2000psi tank pressure would just blow the exit bag off your head as soon as you opened the valve, and 2) it controls the rate of gas flow into the exit bag —specifically, it should release it at 15Lpm, which is the minimum adequate to carry away exhaled CO2 and fool your lungs into believing there's enough air.

The good news is that while gas cylinder sizes are not globally standardized, the cylinder valve threads are —and both N2 and Ar cylinders have the same threads (other gasses have different threads), so a regulator that fits on one cylinder will fit equally well on another.

You don't need to worry about being sure to choose a regulator that will reduce the pressure: they all do that. The flowmeter is the critical element of the regulator for our purposes.

Some regulators come with a "click adjust" flowmeter that is very simple, allowing you to dial in 15Lpm without needing to think about it. To the best of my knowledge, these are medical grade regulators; generally very good quality, but often a bit more expensive. Others here may know more about them, and where to acquire them, than I do.

A typical welding regulator will have two gauges: the tank pressure gauge (unimportant to us) and the flowmeter gauge.

A welding regulator's flowmeter gauge will be marked in either cubic feet per hour (Cfh), Lpm, or both. Some welding systems require a fairly low flow of inert gas, much lower than our necessary 15Lpm, and this low flow is most easily measured in Cfh. If you see a gauge marked only in Cfh, it probably will not work for our purpose. Look at the highest Cfh setting on the flowmeter and do the math, to be certain. If the gauge reads in Lpm, a glance should tell you whether the regulator provides the necessary 15Lpm flow.

Harbor Freight Tools offers a cheap CO2/Ar regulator (it also works for N2) with a flowmeter that shows flow in both Cfh and Lpm and goes high enough for our purposes. This is what I have.

The Hose:

The hose needs to be long enough to reach from the gas cylinder beside you, up into the exit bag on your head. I have found it easiest to lead the hose up my back and into the bag at the very back of my neck. It seems to disrupt the fit of the bag less right there.

Some regulators come with a hose that threads directly into the regulator body. Some regulators come with a hose-barb, onto which a length of soft tubing can be pressed. Some regulators come with neither.

For the first situation, just thread the hose into the regulator, tighten it with a wrench, and it's ready.

(Regardless of what type of threaded fitting is used, you do need to wrench-tighten this fitting: a lot of gas can leak out at this connection. If it is a brass fitting, you should not need teflon tape on the threads; the soft metal deforms enough when tightened to provide an adequately gas-tight connection.)

For the second situation, take the hose-barb to a hardware / home improvement store and purchase tubing that fits onto the barb. Once home from the hardware store, thread the barb into the regulator body, tighten with a wrench, and press the tube onto the barb. It should be a snug fit; if you're worried it's too loose, use a small hose clamp / jubilee clip to secure it in place. If it's a little too tight to get the hose into place, soak the end of the tube in very hot water to soften it and press it onto the barb. I used clear vinyl tubing. Aquarium tubing should work. Surgical tubing may not; I don't know for sure.

For the third situation, you'll need a hose-barb fitting (typically brass) that threads into the regulator body. Take the entire regulator to the hardware store and ask someone to help you fit it with a hose barb. Then proceed as for the second situation.

Cover story: as with purchasing the gas cylinder, you're using N2 for brewing, or Ar for filling partial paint cans. Why Ar? because it's heavier than air and settles down onto the paint surface inside the can. For extra confidence that they won't ask inconvenient questions, you're doing it for your father, or your brother, and you don't know why they want it for their paint locker, they just said to get a hose barb and six feet of tubing…

The Exit Bag:

There are several videos on YouTube detailing construction of exit bags. I strongly recommend watching them. That's how I learned.

The short version of what you want is a turkey roasting bag —available in the supermarket, in with the zip-locks and cling wrap— with an elastic drawcord worked into a turned hem, and a cord-lock to adjust the drawcord's tension.

I used 3/8" elastic cord. I purchased both it and the cord lock at a sewing and crafts store (JoAnn's).

To construct the turned hem you'll need micropore (surgical) tape, available at a pharmacy in the first aid section. It's the right tape to use because it will reliably stick to the material of the bag itself. Sometimes it isn't labeled as "micropore." Ask a clerk if you can't find it.

Cover story: you were asked to re-stock the family first aid kit with micropore tape and you don't recognize any of the brands available.

Using an elastic drawcord is important: it needs to fit snugly around your neck, but not seal tightly. It must still be flexible enough for the flow of inert gas, lightly pressurizing the exit bag, to push past the elastic and flush away the CO2 you're exhaling. Don't use a non-elastic drawcord or do something like duct tape the bag to your neck; you don't want to create a seal, just a restriction.

Quick question - sorry - I have got the elasticated shoe laces (drawcord) for my hood - would these not work?
And - if i may ask, forgive my ignorance here. If i exhale all the CO2 from my lungs prior to putting the bag over my head - full the bag with only Nitrogen, would I still need the little gap? I cant afford to be brain damaged so i need to get this right. I was planning on duct tapping or using the drawcord tighly from the elasticated shoe lases.

 

[Das Nichts]

Quick question - sorry - I have got the elasticated shoe laces (drawcord) for my hood - would these not work?
And - if i may ask, forgive my ignorance here. If i exhale all the CO2 from my lungs prior to putting the bag over my head - full the bag with only Nitrogen, would I still need the little gap? I cant afford to be brain damaged so i need to get this right. I was planning on duct tapping or using the drawcord tighly from the elasticated shoe lases.

Drawcord should work as long as it fits through your toggle.

You start filling the bag (which taxes approx 2 minutes), do some quick ex/inhales (hyperventilating), after the bag is filled you exhale, put the bag on your head, secure
the drawcard with the toggle while leaving a gap and start inhaling the N2.

It unrealistic that your are able to breath out all the oxygen in your lungs, the gap must be there so that CO2 is removed from the bag!
Please do read the PPH or PPeH and watch the doing it with chi video. (Pinned Threads in this forum) to get a better understanding of the method.

 

[tams]

I am in the process of reading this whole thread. So far I have acquired a 55 CF Nitrogen tank. I have ordered a flow meter/regulator, and I was wondering how confident I should be with it? It is for Argon, so I know it needed to be set at a higher LPM, anywhere from 18-23 is what I have being seeing. I have attached a photo of the one I ordered for reference. My other question is that I plan to CTB at home. In live in a condo where there is occupied units on both the right and left side of me. Is it possible the N2 will leak through the walls and cause a concern for the other residents? Obviously I wanna avoid that. I am planing to open the windows if necessary to at least lessen that risk. But I wanna know what others think first so that if I need to, I can make other arrangements. Thanks.

 

[BougainvilleaBlooms]

Let me be sure I have this right because this was a bit confusing for me
Tank:
- Can be bought at welding or brewing stores
- Must be 40cf (or 20cf at least)
- Get at AirGas because of the lack of certifications

Regulator:
- Should release at 15(lmp)
- still confused



Hose: I'm confused are the "situations" steps or different ways on how to do the hose?

 

[tams]

Let me be sure I have this right because this was a bit confusing for me
Tank:
- Can be bought at welding or brewing stores
- Must be 40cf (or 20cf at least)
- Get at AirGas because of the lack of certifications

Regulator:
- Should release at 15(lmp)
- still confused

View attachment 107872

Hose: I'm confused are the "situations" steps or different ways on how to do the hose?
View attachment 107873

I believe the regulator just tells the pressure in the tank, you need a flow meter to set the flow at 15LPM. I bought a regulator/flow meter combo, but not sure if it will work properly yet. The hose can be attached to the flow meter via the barbed connection. It seems to be recommended to find a just basic hose that can be attached to the flow meter and taped to the inside of the EB.

 

[outrider567]

I am in the process of reading this whole thread. So far I have acquired a 55 CF Nitrogen tank. I have ordered a flow meter/regulator, and I was wondering how confident I should be with it? It is for Argon, so I know it needed to be set at a higher LPM, anywhere from 18-23 is what I have being seeing. I have attached a photo of the one I ordered for reference. My other question is that I plan to CTB at home. In live in a condo where there is occupied units on both the right and left side of me. Is it possible the N2 will leak through the walls and cause a concern for the other residents? Obviously I wanna avoid that. I am planing to open the windows if necessary to at least lessen that risk. But I wanna know what others think first so that if I need to, I can make other arrangements. Thanks.

I don't see how Nitrogen or Argon can get past solid walls---Anyway, you have a mask on, you're breathing in all the Argon anyway

 

[my-end]

Is it possible the N2 will leak through the walls and cause a concern for the other residents? Obviously I wanna avoid that.

Imagine a small room. Let's say 10x10 with 8ft walls. If you measure 1ft away from a wall, and imagine 1ft cubes on the whole wall, that's 80 cubic ft. You could let the whole bottle of 55 cu ft out in that room and it would likely do nothing. So as far as inert gas goes, it's easy to not harm others.

 

[Das Nichts]

Let me be sure I have this right because this was a bit confusing for me
Tank:
- Can be bought at welding or brewing stores
- Must be 40cf (or 20cf at least)
- Get at AirGas because of the lack of certifications

Regulator:
- Should release at 15(lmp)
- still confused

View attachment 107872

Hose: I'm confused are the "situations" steps or different ways on how to do the hose?
View attachment 107873

That stuff is useless for what you are trying to do. You need a regulator matching your gas (n2/argon/whatever) and you must be able
to regulate the liters per minute! It also must match the bar/kpsi of the bottle your are trying to connect.

200 bar bottle / 200 bar regulator.

The thing you posted seems to convert high pressure to pneumatic pressure.

I am in the process of reading this whole thread. So far I have acquired a 55 CF Nitrogen tank. I have ordered a flow meter/regulator, and I was wondering how confident I should be with it? It is for Argon, so I know it needed to be set at a higher LPM, anywhere from 18-23 is what I have being seeing. I have attached a photo of the one I ordered for reference. My other question is that I plan to CTB at home. In live in a condo where there is occupied units on both the right and left side of me. Is it possible the N2 will leak through the walls and cause a concern for the other residents? Obviously I wanna avoid that. I am planing to open the windows if necessary to at least lessen that risk. But I wanna know what others think first so that if I need to, I can make other arrangements. Thanks.

Inert gas is not poisonous nor flammable so it's no harm to others. As for the regulator, the consensus to get on that matches your inert gas
and can regulate litres per minute. The conversion stuff is guesswork but it might work. Up to you.

 

[BougainvilleaBlooms]

I

That stuff is useless for what you are trying to do. You need a regulator matching your gas (n2/argon/whatever) and you must be able
to regulate the liters per minute! It also must match the bar/kpsi of the bottle your are trying to connect.

200 bar bottle / 200 bar regulator.

The thing you posted seems to convert high pressure to pneumatic pressure.


Inert gas is not poisonous nor flammable so it's no harm to others. As for the regulator, the consensus to get on that matches your inert gas
and can regulate litres per minute. The conversion stuff is guesswork but it might work. Up to you.

I'm sorry. I'm new to this so the instructions confuse me without a visual aid.

 

[Das Nichts]

I

I'm sorry. I'm new to this so the instructions confuse me without a visual aid.

Mp meed to be sorry, just take your time and get the proper equipment.

Tubing is connected on the land hand side, tank is connected on the right side.
The wheel on the left side adjusts the flow rate to the correct l/pm.

 

[anonaon]

Hey guys, is there a proper way to test for CO2?

 

[GasMonkey]

Filling a small bag with a CO₂ detector inside (since they usually don't have inputs like O₂ detectors).

 

[Das Nichts]

I was looking at a lease agreement yesterday and it explicitly prohibits storing any kind of gas on
the premises. Found that funny somehow

 

[GasMonkey]

Idea: Extension hose for the SCBA setup with a Nitrogen industrial regulator.

 

[Dubito]

I was looking at a lease agreement yesterday and it explicitly prohibits storing any kind of gas on
the premises. Found that funny somehow

I was looking at a lease agreement yesterday and it explicitly prohibits storing any kind of gas on
the premises. Found that funny somehow

Oh fuck. I have to check that. At least gas for cooking and heating is allowed.;)

 

[Das Nichts]

Idea: Extension hose for the SCBA setup with a Nitrogen industrial regulator.

View attachment 108245

That looks like a standard compressed air hose. Have you tried yourself If those fit ?

Oh fuck. I have to check that. At least gas for cooking and heating is allowed.;)

What's even more interesting: lease agreements pass over to those who inherit if you don't provide a death certificate within two weeks. At least in my country.

 

[GasMonkey]

Have you tried yourself If those fit ?

The ones I have seen were compatible with the typical plug-in nipple of demand valves.

 

[Das Nichts]

The ones I have seen were compatible with the typical plug-in nipple of demand valves.

Shorter would probably better though. Would be interesting to measure the output pressure.

The manual of the draeger ldv states that a minimum of 4,5 bar needs to be supplied.

 

[my-end]

Hey guys, is there a proper way to test for CO2?

I suspected that maybe I got argon/co2 mix instead of nitrogen. I tested my gas with lime water. Not the fruit but the mineral. Calcium hydroxide dissolved in water then filtered, then bubble the gas through, if it turns cloudy there's co2. I bubbled mine for over a minute, saw almost no change. Then I blew through the hose for about ten seconds and the water turned white. This is only if you can't get a co2 meter or if you just prefer otherwise.

 

[outrider567]

I was looking at a lease agreement yesterday and it explicitly prohibits storing any kind of gas on
the premises. Found that funny somehow

That is funny indeed

 

[GasMonkey]

Shorter would probably better though.

The optimal extension would be just as much as you need and no more, maybe 2m.

The hose on the demand valve with no extensions is too short.

Would be interesting to measure the output pressure.

The manual of the draeger ldv states that a minimum of 4,5 bar needs to be supplied.

With the "industrial regulator" setup you can pump has much pressure as you want, you set it in the regulator. The ones with low output pressures (1-10 bar) are very cheap, the optimal pressure for the demand valve is around 7.2 bar for most manufacturers.

 

[Das Nichts]

The optimal extension would be just as much as you need and no more, maybe 2m.

The hose on the demand valve with no extensions is too short.

With the "industrial regulator" setup you can pump has much pressure as you want, you set it in the regulator. The ones with low output pressures (1-10 bar) are very cheap, the optimal pressure for the demand valve is around 7.2 bar for most manufacturers.

I was hinting towards what could happen when someone attaches a long extension like in your picture. You know people get creative in here.

Since this setup already involves two Adapters I think it would be wise not adding another possible failure source.

 

[depressomartin.iis]

I've had a bit of time away from this. But I'm at a point were I want to CTB soon.

If I were to take the nitrogen route, apart from the bag itself. What would I need?

I have a budget of £500. Is it even possible with this much money?

Thanks

 

[anonaon]

You'll need a flow regulator, gas cylinder and an oxygen tube

 

[outrider567]

I've had a bit of time away from this. But I'm at a point were I want to CTB soon.

If I were to take the nitrogen route, apart from the bag itself. What would I need?

I have a budget of £500. Is it even possible with this much money?

Thanks

You need a flowmeter/regulator, nitrogen tank, plastic tubing

 

[depressomartin.iis]

Could i get any recommendations on specific things that i could get in my budget? I have no idea what regulators etc.. to get to be honest.

Im based in the UK

 

[seekingpeacefulend]

Thank you. Iam unable to find what 40cf is equivalent to in m3. They have 2 sizes other than big industrial tank. One is 0.93m3 , other 1.93m3. Are any of those the same as 40 cf?

 

[Das Nichts]

Thank you. Iam unable to find what 40cf is equivalent to in m3. They have 2 sizes other than big industrial tank. One is 0.93m3 , other 1.93m3. Are any of those the same as 40 cf?

Use one of the available online converters

Cubic Feet and Cubic Meters Converter (ft³ and m³)

Convert between cubic feet and cubic meters with this handy conversion tool

www.thecalculatorsite.com