Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[LifeIsAChore11]

Maybe it's the gas.I don't know if there is a test for nitrogen. My regulator seems fine though I got it for 300 pound brand new.

Did you order ultra high purity? Someone told me they might be putting shit in the gas to ruin CTBs now but IDK if he's right or not.

 

[Emmanuel108]

It was food grade nitrogen 99.99 so they said.
I will retry it soon but this time maybe with somebody. To make sure that I'm doing the right thing.

 

[GasMonkey]

Hello guys,

I have tried this method to ctb but it didn't work. I waited for 3 minutes and I didn't even pass out. Can somebody tell me what I'm doing wrong. Thank you

You were breathing oxygen for sure, you can't survive 3 minutes breathing on a 0% oxygen environment. Check the purity of your gas with an O₂ analyzer. Also you can easily see if the thing is working with an oxymeter.

 

[hatehypocrisy]

I just tried this method with SCUBA, I'm failed! I adjusted the gas flow to the maximum of 15, but after I put SCUBA on my face, I found it very difficult to breathe, I forced myself to breathe for a minute later, because of the strong feeling of suffocation I had to stop.

 

[Emmanuel108]

You were breathing oxygen for sure, you can't survive 3 minutes breathing on a 0% oxygen environment. Check the purity of your gas with an O₂ analyzer. Also you can easily see if the thing is working with an oxymeter.

I was agree for sure. Maybe the gas company made a mistake. How does the analyser work?

 

[GasMonkey]

I just tried this method with SCUBA, I'm failed! I adjusted the gas flow to the maximum of 15, but after I put SCUBA on my face, I found it very difficult to breathe, I forced myself to breathe for a minute later, because of the strong feeling of suffocation I had to stop.

Wrong setup.

SCUBA doesn't work on constant flow, it works with a demand valve (like SlovakGuy used). You can't just get a SCUBA mask a connect it to a hose at 15 LPM, that flow rate is for the ExitBag. The constant flow air purifiers with masks operate at a much higher flow rate (over 60 LPM).

It's better to use SCBA with an air-to-nitrogen adapter if you are in a region where such adapter exists (like DOGMA67 and me did) or if it doesn't, using a N₂ pressure regulator with a quick coupling. There is also the Canadian source selling full ready to use CTB kits but it is more expensive.

How does the analyser work?

 

[Emmanuel108]

Wrong setup.

SCUBA doesn't work on constant flow, it works with a demand valve (like SlovakGuy used). You can't just get a SCUBA mask a connect it to a hose at 15 LPM, that flow rate is for the ExitBag. The constant flow air purifiers with masks operate at a much higher flow rate (over 60 LPM).

It's better to use SCBA with an air-to-nitrogen adapter if you are in a region where such adapter exists (like DOGMA67 and me did) or if it doesn't, using a N₂ pressure regulator with a quick coupling. There is also the Canadian source selling full ready to use CTB kits but it is more expensive.


View attachment 103235

Thank you very much. Ur the best.

 

[hatehypocrisy]

Wrong setup.

SCUBA doesn't work on constant flow, it works with a demand valve (like SlovakGuy used). You can't just get a SCUBA mask a connect it to a hose at 15 LPM, that flow rate is for the ExitBag. The constant flow air purifiers with masks operate at a much higher flow rate (over 60 LPM).

It's better to use SCBA with an air-to-nitrogen adapter if you are in a region where such adapter exists (like DOGMA67 and me did) or if it doesn't, using a N₂ pressure regulator with a quick coupling. There is also the Canadian source selling full ready to use CTB kits but it is more expensive.

I bought some equipment and spent a lot of money, but I seem to be wasting money on the wrong stuff all the time. So it's better if I use exit bag instead SCUBA? Or if I have a 60lpm regulator?

 

[GasMonkey]

What SCUBA equipment do you have? I'd say that a well fine-tuned SCUBA with a comfortable mask is better than the manually crafted ExitBag, it was used by SlovakGuy, likely by @Diver_K_A, and by @LetzteAusfahrt to assist suicide. To use SCUBA apart from the mask you need a regulator (1st stage) and demand valve (2nd stage).

How have you managed to connect the SCUBA mask to a constant flow regulator?

Or if I have a 60lpm regulator?

At rest the flow rate needed would be lower probably, but I have never seen a N₂ regulator which such a high flow rate, the highest I have seen was 34 LPM.

 

[hatehypocrisy]

What SCUBA equipment do you have? I'd say that a well fine-tuned SCUBA is better than the manually crafted ExitBag, it was used by SlovakGuy, likely by @Diver_K_A, and by @LetzteAusfahrt to assist suicide. To use SCUBA apart from the mask you need a regulator (1st stage) and demand valve (2nd stage).

How have you managed to connect the SCUBA mask to a constant flow regulator?


At rest the flow rate needed would be lower probably, but I have never seen a N₂ regulator which such a high flow rate, the highest I have seen was 34 LPM.

I took some pictures of the equipment, but I don't know why I can't upload it here.

At rest the flow rate needed would be lower probably, but I have never seen a N₂ regulator which such a high flow rate, the highest I have seen was 34 LPM.

So if this is the case, nitrogen cannot be used with SCUBA because there is no large enough regulator?

this one

And this one.
I have both regulators.

And this SCUBA

 

[GasMonkey]

That's not SCUBA, that's a snorkeling mask.

So you have crafted a constant flow setup like the one from onewayroad? It should work with enough flow rate to sustain inhalation. An higher flow rate than the ExitBag is needed since the mask has a very low inner volume so it doesn't have a big reserve of gas like with the Bag.

The first regulator that you have has some caveats that you should know.

The second regulator is a pressure regulator. I think it could have an interesing use in this setup, imagine that you set it up to give an output of 1.2 bar (a positive pressure over the ambient's one), so when you inhale the demand for gas will increase, which will make the regulator to increase the gas output to maintain the 1.2 bar, it could act like a semi demand valve. It goes from 1 to 40 bar so I'm not sure how sensitive/precise that regulator would be maintaining a 1.XX bar pressure, maybe one with a lower range would work better. It's the first time that I have the idea of using a pressure regulator directly to maintain a positive pressure inside a mask (without a demand valve).

 

[hatehypocrisy]

That's not SCUBA, that's a snorkeling mask.

So you have crafted a constant flow setup like the one from onewayroad? It should work with enough flow rate to sustain inhalation. An higher flow rate than the ExitBag is needed since the mask has a very low inner volume so it doesn't have a big reserve of gas like with the Bag.

The first regulator that you have has some caveats that you should know.

The second regulator is a pressure regulator. I think it could have an interesing use in this setup, imagine that you set it up to give an output of 1.2 bar (a positive pressure over the ambient's one), so when you inhale the demand for gas will increase, which will make the regulator to increase the gas output to maintain the 1.2 bar, it could act like a semi demand valve. It goes from 1 to 40 bar so I'm not sure how sensitive/precise that regulator would be maintaining a 1.XX bar pressure, maybe one with a lower range would work better. It's the first time that I have the idea of using a pressure regulator directly to maintain a positive pressure inside a mask (without a demand valve).

So is my equipment complete? If I want to use a snorkeling mask, can I attach it to a second regulator? If they are working properly, how should I adjust the regulator?

 

[hatehypocrisy]

What if I make a big Exit bag out of a 80cm*75cm bag? Which regulator should I use? And do I just need to connect to the jar with a hose and insert the other end directly into the Exit bag?

 

[k1w1]

First of all, what gear do you have? Demand valve and mask?

Hey mate, your posts on this are top notch. The tech aspect of this method creates hassles for some people but it's not rocket science. Would you save me the search and have a link to the fabrication method here or elsewhere? I'd be grateful. Best.

 

[GasMonkey]

So is my equipment complete?

You would need to test it, it's an unexplored idea using a snorkeling mask with a pressure regulator.

What if I make a big Exit bag out of a 80cm*75cm bag?

Try to make it with approximate measurements to the PPeH ExitBag.

Which regulator should I use?

The flow regulator at 15 LPM.

And do I just need to connect to the jar with a hose and insert the other end directly into the Exit bag?

O₂ tube connected to the regulator with the other end sticked inside the bag with the output at the top.


Check the Inert Gas chapter on the PPeH.

Would you save me the search and have a link to the fabrication method here or elsewhere?

I haven't made any concrete fabrication guide, just posts here.
For the ExitBag you have the Inert Gas chapter on the PPeH.

For SCBA you have 3 options:

1. If an air-to-nitrogen adapter exists for the standard N₂ connection of your region, use an SCBA (regulator+demand valve+mask) connected to a N₂ cylinder using the adapter.

2. If such adapter doesn't exists for the standard of your region, connect the demand valve to a N₂ pressure regulator using a quick coupler. You will need to search for the adequate quick coupler for your regulator. The pressure output on the regulator must be set to the recommended by the manufacturer of the demand valve (can be seen in the tech specs) which usually is 7.25~7.50 bar.

3. Or buy the entire kit for your region already done and ready to use from the Canadian source.

 

[Bengal]

I'm using SCBA. I have the option of doing it in my standard living room sofa style single person chair or my adjustable bed (so I can be flat down or have my upper body raised up at an angle).

I don't know how much you move around and wouldn't want the mask disrupted if I convulse or whatever and my head turns to the side.

And is strapping urself down/in necessary?

What is the best process here or does it not matter?

(Might be odd questions… but I'm odd)

 

[GasMonkey]

I don't know how much you move around

Only minor movements were observed in the Dignitas study.

wouldn't want the mask disrupted

That's impossible in a well tightened SCBA mask.

And is strapping urself down/in necessary?

Probably not, but I will strap my entire body to a long deckchair, including wrists of course.

 

[GasMonkey]

Professional ExitBag.

 

[Mare Imbrium]

You would need to test it, it's an unexplored idea using a snorkeling mask with a pressure regulator.


Try to make it with approximate measurements to the PPeH ExitBag.


The flow regulator at 15 LPM.


O₂ tube connected to the regulator with the other end sticked inside the bag with the output at the top.

View attachment 103285
Check the Inert Gas chapter on the PPeH.


I haven't made any concrete fabrication guide, just posts here.
For the ExitBag you have the Inert Gas chapter on the PPeH.

For SCBA you have 3 options:

1. If an air-to-nitrogen adapter exists for the standard N₂ connection of your region, use an SCBA (regulator+demand valve+mask) connected to a N₂ cylinder using the adapter.

2. If such adapter doesn't exists for the standard of your region, connect the demand valve to a N₂ pressure regulator using a quick coupler. You will need to search for the adequate quick coupler for your regulator. The pressure output on the regulator must be set to the recommended by the manufacturer of the demand valve (can be seen in the tech specs) which usually is 7.25~7.50 bar.

3. Or buy the entire kit for your region already done and ready to use from the Canadian source.

Is it necessary to adhere the hose bowed liked on this photo? (Photo with blue tape).

 

[bellaciao]

a member on the topic of the exit bag posted that link that I found very helpfull. It is a study on ctb with helium and a mask, by assisted suicide.
I wonder if there is other studies with the exit bag instead of a mask?
(sorry for my english)

(PDF) Assisted suicide by oxygen deprivation with helium at a Swiss right-to-die organisation

PDF | In Switzerland, right-to-die organisations assist their members with suicide by lethal drugs, usually barbiturates. One organisation, Dignitas,... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

 

[lion4000b]

Professional ExitBag.

View attachment 103401View attachment 103402
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View attachment 103408

Thats impressive. Is it for sale?

 

[GasMonkey]

Is it necessary to adhere the hose bowed liked on this photo? (Photo with blue tape).

Not really but it's probably better to have it like that for a more uniform gas distribution.

Thats impressive. Is it for sale?

Yep, it's from a well known (specially in the US) emergency equipment manufacturer; not cheap tho (comes with an air cylinder, air regulator and shit).

 

[bellaciao]

Only minor movements were observed in the Dignitas study.


That's impossible in a well tightened SCBA mask.


Probably not, but I will strap my entire body to a long deckchair, including wrists of course.

Gas monkey: Did you find other studies from dignitas on the topic, but with the exit bag instead? It is a very interesting study, but looks like it take a long time before dying. Do you think that the "professionnal exit bag" is a good option to breath out the Co2 outside of the bag?

 

[GasMonkey]

Gas monkey: Did you find other studies from dignitas on the topic, but with the exit bag instead?

No. Not like they are needed anyway.

A proper setup which creates a 0% oxygen environment will kill you in a few of minutes, that's a fact which has been known in the medical literature for decades and there is absolutely no needed to run any experiment to prove it (it would be like doing an experiment to prove that people drown underwater ). But since you are a novice on the matter I understand your curiosity about it. You should check the inert gas chapter on the PPeH.

The only reason why the Dignitas guys ran that experiment was to check how the Non-ReBreather masks perform at maintaining the 0% O₂ environment.

It is a very interesting study, but looks like it take a long time before dying.

Most subjects died in ~5mins, with cessation of breathing in ~3mins, that's a long time for you?
There was a subject who took 38mins due to problems with the seal (air leaking into the mask) because the NRB masks are not explicity designed to protect you from the external gas so they can cause issues in some circumstances where the fit or placement in the face is not optimal.

Do you think that the "professionnal exit bag" is a good option to breath out the Co2 outside of the bag?

Is not worth to try to purchase it, it's too expensive (and you would have to adapt it to work with N₂). You would be better crafting your own bag or going for the newer and better implementations like SCBA or Hoods.

 

[bellaciao]

No. Not like they are needed anyway.

A proper setup which creates a 0% oxygen environment will kill you in a few of minutes, that's a fact which has been known in the medical literature for decades and there is absolutely no needed to run any experiment to prove it (it would be like doing an experiment to prove that people drown underwater ). But since you are a novice on the matter I understand your curiosity about it. You should check the inert gas chapter on the PPeH.

The only reason why the Dignitas guys ran that experiment was to check how the Non-ReBreather masks perform at maintaining the 0% O₂ environment.


Most subjects died in ~5mins, with cessation of breathing in ~3mins, that's a long time for you?
There was a subject who took 38mins due to problems with the seal (air leaking into the mask) because the NRB masks are not explicity designed to protect you from the external gas so they can cause issues in some circumstances where the fit or placement in the face is not optimal.


Is not worth to try to purchase it, it's too expensive (and you would have to adapt it to work with N₂). You would be better crafting your own bag or going for the newer and better implementations like SCBA or Hoods.

Thank you for the precisions. Just want to say that i'm not this novice, since I have read the megathread on the topic, and members like Greenberg and Tirehorse. Also, it is important not to confuse cessation of breating (3 minutes) and terminal breath that comes after 10, 21 and 38 min.

 

[GasMonkey]

Also, it is important not to confuse cessation of breating (3 minutes) and terminal breath that comes after 10, 21 and 38 min.

The last terminal breath of subjects that didn't have issues was at 4'56", 6'30" and 8'35", which agrees with the time range that Dr Philip Nitschke has always said (5'~10').



The >38' subject had seal problems.
TL;DR: Don't use NRB. Use SCBA, Hood or Bag.

On this study of 2 subjects with ExitBag, the last terminal breaths were at 6'46" and 8'36", again within Nitschke's range.
The subjects blacked out in ~10 sec/3 breaths, congruent with the experience from Diver_K_A with his SCUBA setup.

 

[OnTheRoad]

I was planning to use a NRB mask (with reservoir bag) until I saw the PPeH discourages CPAP masks because they don't seal 100%. Seems like15 lpm would maintain positive pressure inside the mask, even while inhaling. Thoughts?

 

[GasMonkey]

I was planning to use a NRB mask (with reservoir bag) until I saw the PPeH discourages CPAP masks because they don't seal 100%.

I don't recommend it either, even tho they are plausible to CTB and likely to work, they are not explicitly designed to protect you from the external air, so they can cause issues in some circumstances where the fit or placement in the face is not optimal, like it happened to one subject in the Dignitas study.

Seems like15 lpm would maintain positive pressure inside the mask, even while inhaling.

Yeah 15 LPM works.

 

[efilist]

I don't recommend it either, even tho they are plausible to CTB and likely to work, they are not explicitly designed to protect you from the external air, so they can cause issues in some circumstances where the fit or placement in the face is not optimal, like it happened to one subject in the Dignitas study.


Yeah 15 LPM works.

Would the Canadian EEBD hood would be better than the medical mask they offer, in your estimation? Or better than the exit bag, say.

 

[GasMonkey]

Yep the EEBD hood is safer for sure.