Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[Sun n showers]

Hi everyone.

I initially planned to use argon and bought an argon regulator marked in cfh. Then I changed the gas to nitrogen based on further study. Based on what I've read here, nitrogren through an argon regulator should be set to 21 lpm, which converts to 44 cfh. Is that accurate?

Hi are you still here?

 

[ExpiredLion]

Is there any page in this thread that mention the type of bag to get? I have tried getting turkey bags in the "clingwrap" section but those bags are super thin. Not only do I not think it will be adequate because of that, but due to the thinness I can't actually thread the elastic through it since it just slips in my other hand as I try to push it further.

 

[September Salt]

Just checking that a nitrogen tank can safely be stored in my living room when not in use? I know the valve needs to be turned off, etc.

 

[Aardvark]

My experience was that I soon began to feel tingling in my hands, as if they were falling asleep. A short moment later I began to get dizzy, and my vision went grey around the edges. Each of the three times I have attempted this method, that's as far as I got before I flinched and removed the bag.

I did not experience any pain whatsoever, and no real discomfort aside from the mild tingling in my hands.

I do not believe I have suffered any ill effects from three aborted attempts. I had a bit of a cough for a couple days after my third attempt, but I can't say for sure whether that was attributable to the N2. It concerns me only in that this method demands that you be able to breathe freely in order for it to be effective, and I don't want to have ruined my chances to use it later, when I have summoned my courage.

My greatest difficulty is that I have been very stressed during my attempts, and could not keep my breathing steady and deep. This undoubtedly lengthened the amount of time it should have taken for me to black out.

In the stress of the situation, I experienced time dilation —in other words, I can't tell you how long it took for me to feel dizzy; it might have been five seconds, it might have been a minute and a half. It wasn't very long —but it was long enough for me to flinch.

From my experience, this is as painless, comfortable, and potentially peaceful a way to ctb as it is rumored to be. The only drawbacks that I can see are that it requires a lot of equipment —cylinder, regulator, hose, bag— and that there is a surprising amount of time for your survival instinct to kick in, or for second thoughts.

As I wrote at the beginning, I hope other forum members can fill in some of the blanks I have left —specifically, I have seen a lot of questions about tank sizes outside the US that I cannot answer.

I don't wish anyone good luck at catching the bus. I wish we could all find our way to a joyous and satisfying life that would make death an unfortunate reality rather than a longed-for relief. But all of us here know that the Fates aren't always that kind, and so I wish you all the most peaceful relief from your pain that you can find, and if that peace is brought by Death, I hope Death comes gently.

Thank you so much for taking the time to put this guide together for us. I've read the exit bag method in the PPeH and some of the details you've shared are missing from that document. You've certainly answered pressing questions that I was unable to find the answers to anywhere else. Much appreciated.

 

[Jrmull1993]

Just checking that a nitrogen tank can safely be stored in my living room when not in use? I know the valve needs to be turned off, etc.

Yes it can as long as it's away from any heat source that can heat the gas and increase internal tank pressure.

 

[Aardvark]

I was just putting the point of painfull or not painfull across. It got up and put its head right back in to get the food over and over, no bag used.

I saw that video on a BBC website as they did the story on it. Scientists were testing which gas euthanize animals with. Apples were set up in a feeding trough that the pig had to stick its head into in order to reach the apples. First was carbon dioxide. The pig stuck its head in but was repelled the CO2. The next feeding trough had N2 and the pig stuck its head in eating away at the apples until it collapsed within seconds. It fell outside the feeding trough from oxygen deficiency and because it was in fresh air it recovered again, only to put its head back into the same feeding trough to continue eating the apples. This demonstrated a few things:
1) The N2 did not hurt the pig or repel it like the CO2 did
2) The pig did not realise that the gas was dangerous and went back to the same feeding trough as soon as it had recovered, indicating that the N2 was NOT unpleasant for the pig
3) There was no pain for the pig

 

[September Salt]

Yes it can as long as it's away from any heat source that can heat the gas and increase internal tank pressure.

Do I have to worry about hot summer days? The AC is often but not always on. Thanks.

 

[Aardvark]

I still have a little trouble understanding. Are we better doing the nitrogen tank in the car? Also when we become unconscious will we be trying to rip the bag off?

I would not try and do it in a car. There are just too many ways that the N2 could escape from the vehicle...

Please watch out. When the plastic bag get touched your mouth and nose because of deep breathing, you have no positiv effect of the innert gas. Some people get failed because of this.

If you have your flow rate set to 15L/min, that should be sufficient to keep the bag inflated

I should ask as well, what will the body look like after this is done? One of the main reasons I went against hanging is because I saw how horrible the body looked after. I don't expect to look amazing or anything, but it would be nice to know a little bit.

The body will look just like it did before you use the EB and were still alive. There is no discoloration of the skin, fingernails, etc. You look absolutely normal. So normal in fact that if the EB, N2 cylinder and all other evidence are removed by a friend prior to being "discovered", your death would even likely fool an autopsy. Death by N2 is EXTREMELY difficult to determine and causes of death are cited as "cause unknown" or if you were very ill, it might be ascribed to your illness.

Stupid question, but do you think I could fill it up with nitrogen? When I ordered the tank for cyber weld, it gave me the option to fill it up with either argon or nitrogen.

Not all gas cylinders have the same fittings for the attachment of regulators. I think that Argon and Nitrogen do use the same fittings, but please check that first.

 

[Aardvark]

To the right of Greenbergs thumbnail picture on this site is his user name, read what is under his user name, and type that into a search engine. So much useful information on there to be read. Thank you Greenberg.

Wondered what colour our skin would be? Grey/ blue from lack of oxygen? I'm a European white person.

There will be NO change to your skin colour at all.

 

[Jrmull1993]

Do I have to worry about hot summer days? The AC is often but not always on.

If you planning to CTB in September (as your username illudes to) you'll be fine.

Don't allow the sunlight to reflect directly on it. If it's in a room where a person can tolerate the temperature, than the tank will be fine.

 

[youareforgiven]

Hi guys,

After reading a lot of comments and the PPeH i have a few questions. I hope you guys can help me with my questions.

I ordered the Europe Regulator kit and the Non-Rebreather Gas Mask from EM The Europe Regulator kit contains:
- Flow Regulator
- EEDB Hood Large

I am now in the process of buying Nitrogen what kind of gives me anxiety. I see on the MD regulator that the pressure should not exceed 180 bar. Is this also the case for the EM regulator that i ordered? Most nitrogen that is being sold in my country contains 200 bar pressure.

Is it also correct that i can measure the pressure with the Regulator i bought? Seems to be if i check the picture.

I see that i need about 600 liters of Nitrogen. Is the calculation that simple that i you have 5 liters with a pressure of 200 bar, that this equils 1000 liters (5x200)? Does the Cubit Foot not matter then?

My next question is about checking the purity of the gas. The one that is mentioned in the PPeH is the CY-12C. Is this still a good device or would you advise another?

Last question (seems to be a debate about It). What is the best bag?
- the "turkey" bag
- EEDB hood
- NRB mask.
- Another(?)

Sorry for asking a lot of questions, but this would help me a lot.

Thank you in advance,
Youareforgiven

Mod edit: sources abbreviated

 

[GasMonkey]

Last question (seems to be a debate about It). What is the best bag?
- the "turkey" bag
- EEDB hood
- NRB mask.
- Another(?)

The best (by a very wide margin) is SCBA/SCUBA. It's the Gold Standard in the industry to breath a gas from a cylinder while being completely isolated from the external gas (air), used daily by firefighters and divers with unmatched reliability.

 

[Aardvark]

https://productsofdesign.sva.edu/blog/masters-thesis-sincerely

Check that site, there should be a couple videos on there, super interesting to me

Many thanks for posting a link to that site. Very interesting with a few useful takeaways!

 

[Aardvark]

Also I've no idea how much gas the Polish ebay tank contains. It does say it's 1.6m3 which is 56.5 cubic feet. So it seems like a lot, but I am however utterly clueless.

A 1.6m3 tank translates to 1600 litres. At the required rate of 15L/minute, this tank will supply N2 for 107 minutes or 1 hour and 47 minutes. This is more than sufficient, even assuming some leakage

 

[youareforgiven]

The best (by a very wide margin) is SCBA/SCUBA. It's the Gold Standard in the industry to breath a gas from a cylinder while being completely isolated from the external gas (air), used daily by firefighters and divers with unmatched reliability.

Hi Gasmonkey.

Thank you for the reply. Okay clear.

And between the three i mentioned, the self made bag, EEDB or the NRB, do you have knowledge/information about what is best?

A 1.6m3 tank translates to 1600 litres. At the required rate of 15L/minute, this tank will supply N2 for 107 minutes or 1 hour and 47 minutes. This is more than sufficient, even assuming some leakage

Hi Aardvark,

I have a question about the calculation. It seems a bit confusing, because some suppliers share different information. I just found N2 with the following details.

Capacity: 8 liters
Pressure: 150 bars
Gas quantity: 1,5m3

Can you explain to me how to make the calculation?

Kind regards,
Youareforgiven

 

[GasMonkey]

And between the three i mentioned, the self made bag, EEDB or the NRB, do you have knowledge/information about what is best?

EEDB is the best because is also designed to breath a gas from a cylinder while being isolated from the external gas, the NRB is NOT explicity designed to protect you from the external gas, and the manually crafted bag must only be used if you don't have money to buy any gear.

Gas quantity: 1,5m3

That's 1500 L.

Can you explain to me how to make the calculation?

1,5 * 1000 = 1500

Is this also the case for the EM regulator that i ordered? Most nitrogen that is being sold in my country contains 200 bar pressure.

EM regulators support up to 206 bar.

Is it also correct that i can measure the pressure with the Regulator i bought? Seems to be if i check the picture.

Yep, they have a pressure gauge.

Is the calculation that simple that i you have 5 liters with a pressure of 200 bar, that this equils 1000 liters (5x200)?

Yeah you get the approximate amount of uncompressed gas with that formula.

My next question is about checking the purity of the gas. The one that is mentioned in the PPeH is the CY-12C. Is this still a good device or would you advise another?

It's good, is the one recommended in the PPeH (they have tested it on EXIT), I have it too.

 

[youareforgiven]

EEDB is the best because is also designed to breath a gas from a cylinder while being isolated from the external gas, the NRB is NOT explicity designed to protect you from the external gas, and the manually crafted bag must only be used if you don't have money to buy any gear.


That's 1500 L.


1,5 * 1000 = 1500


EM regulators support up to 206 bar.


Yep, they have a pressure gauge.


Yeah you get the approximate amount of uncompressed gas with that formula.


It's good, is the one recommended in the PPeH (they have tested it on EXIT), I have it too.

Hi Gasmonkey,

Thank you for your reply!! It helpes me a lot.

Okay, about the EEBD, I read something about that the only issue with this is dat it needs more N2 to fill up in comparison to a turkey bag, do you know if it is correct? Then i need to take that with my calculations for ordering gas.

Do you know it there is a minimum amount of pressure for the EM regulator or does that not matter? Could be 75 bars and still is good?

Okay one final question about the calculation. If I take the example of the previous post
(Capacity 8L, pressure 150 bar, quantity 1,5m3) you say that that is 1500 liters(1,5x1000) BUT if I follow the other calculation (150 bar x 8L) that would be 1200 liters of uncompressed gas. There is a difference of 300 liters between the two calculations. What is this difference?

Thanks again this takes away a lot of stress.

Kind regards,
Youareforgiven

 

[GasMonkey]

What is this difference?

Probably a bad rounding by the vendor, 1.5m³ is too much for a 8L 150bar cylinder.
The exact formula is Psi pressure * Water volume / 14.7

I have a 10L 200bar 4.0 (99.99%) cylinder from 4m4z0n, and a 2L 200bar 2.8 (99.8%) for testing.

I read something about that the only issue with this is dat it needs more N2 to fill up in comparison to a turkey bag

I don't think there is a noticeable difference between the volume of the bag and the hood. Hoods are tested with a higher flow than 15 LPM tho, the ones I have seen had a recommended flow of 35 LPM, but that's thought to be used in movement.

In the PPeH there is a video of Philip testing a 3M hood at 25 LPM.
https://odysee.com/HoodTestingNitrogen:f

 

[youareforgiven]

Probably a bad rounding by the vendor, 1.5m³ is too much for a 8L 150bar cylinder.
The exact formula is Psi pressure * Water volume / 14.7

I have a 10L 200bar 4.0 (99.99%) cylinder from 4m4z0n, and a 2L 200bar 2.8 (99.8%) for testing.


I don't think there is a noticeable difference between the volume of the bag and the hood. Hoods are tested with a higher flow than 15 LPM tho, the ones I have seen had a recommended flow of 35 LPM, but that's thought to be used in movement.

In the PPeH there is a video of Philip testing a 3M hood at 25 LPM.
https://odysee.com/HoodTestingNitrogen:f

Ok thanks for the information!!

Then I think that i have to revised my calculations. I thought that 15LPM was the optimal gas flow. If it is 25/35 LPM, then I need at least 1000/1400 liters of Nitrogen if i understand you correct. This is getting complicated haha (no offense).

Do you know if there is anyway I can know for sure to have that LPM with the EEDB bag?

 

[GasMonkey]

This is getting complicated haha

That's why SCBA/SCUBA is the best, with SCBA there are no complications at all, the demand valve supplies you exactly the gas that you need without wasting any gas, and the CO2 is expelled through dedicated valves, it's the ultimate bus ticket.

Do you know if there is anyway I can know for sure to have that LPM with the EEDB bag?

Ask K (the guy from EM).

 

[befree]

That's why SCBA/SCUBA is the best, with SCBA there are no complications at all, the demand valve supplies you exactly the gas that you need without wasting any gas, and the CO2 is expelled through dedicated valves, it's the ultimate bus ticket.

I fully agree. In my opinion the inert gas scuba method is the most reliable and one of the most peaceful methods. I would even say the most peaceful and most reliable method as a legal alternative to N. Thousands of people worldwide use the scuba equipment every day. Basically, the only difference is that you connect an inert gas cylinder instead of an oxygen cylinder with an adapter. Everything else works perfectly automatically. Everything you need is legally and easy to get.

 

[youareforgiven]

That's why SCBA/SCUBA is the best, with SCBA there are no complications at all, the demand valve supplies you exactly the gas that you need without wasting any gas, and the CO2 is expelled through dedicated valves, it's the ultimate bus ticket.


Ask K (the guy from EM).

That's why SCBA/SCUBA is the best, with SCBA there are no complications at all, the demand valve supplies you exactly the gas that you need without wasting any gas, and the CO2 is expelled through dedicated valves, it's the ultimate bus ticket.


Ask K (the guy from EM).

Okay and do you know what is the best / easiest gear on EM for Europe? I see different ones, but I find it hard to know which one I should pick.

Maybe I should ask this K guy then, How do I find him on this forum? I have been looking back on this discussion but can't find any K and how to DM somebody(if possible)

Thank you very much again gasmonkey.

 

[GasMonkey]

Maybe I should ask this K guy then

K is the engineer that runs EM, you can contact him in the "Contact Us" section of EM's web. He should have the recommended flow value for the EEDB hood.

what is the best / easiest gear on EM for Europe? I see different ones, but I find it hard to know which one I should pick.

EM has SCBA kits, in EU you must pick the 477 one, it's called 477 because the EU N2 connector is the DIN 477 Nr.10

EM is the "premium option", the easier to get and assemble, but the most expensive one. As a cheaper alternative you can get the SCBA or SCUBA parts separately, this latter option will require the use of an air-to-nitrogen adapter, since it will use an air regulator instead of a nitrogen one.

Both SCBA and SCUBA have the same operating principle, the regulator reduces the cylinder pressure (200 bar) to about 7.5~10 bar, which is sent to the demand valve, that reduces it again in a dynamic way that always maintains a positive pressure inside the mask (so it's physically impossible for the external air to enter the mask). The differece is that SCUBA is made for a water environment (SCBA for gaseous environment) and the SCUBA regulator usually doesn't have a pressure gauge (SCBA always has a pressure gauge).

EM kit ("premium" option):


SCBA parts (cheaper option):


SCUBA parts by befree (cheaper option):
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/how-to-ctb-by-using-nitrogen-gas.93809/#post-1667048

 

[dreamofsheep]

Could a turkey bag exit hood be improved with a nebulizer mask inside to direct the flow of nitrogen to the nose and mouth and blow exhaled carbon dioxide out?

 

[outrider567]

Probably a bad rounding by the vendor, 1.5m³ is too much for a 8L 150bar cylinder.
The exact formula is Psi pressure * Water volume / 14.7

I have a 10L 200bar 4.0 (99.99%) cylinder from 4m4z0n, and a 2L 200bar 2.8 (99.8%) for testing.


I don't think there is a noticeable difference between the volume of the bag and the hood. Hoods are tested with a higher flow than 15 LPM tho, the ones I have seen had a recommended flow of 35 LPM, but that's thought to be used in movement.

In the PPeH there is a video of Philip testing a 3M hood at 25 LPM.
https://odysee.com/HoodTestingNitrogen:f

Interesting---Maybe I'll do 25 LPM instead of 15(certainly works faster), although K said 15 LPM is still ok with the EEDB hood

 

[youareforgiven]

K is the engineer that runs EM, you can contact him in the "Contact Us" section of EM's web. He should have the recommended flow value for the EEDB hood.


EM has SCBA kits, in EU you must pick the 477 one, it's called 477 because the EU N2 connector is the DIN 477 Nr.10

EM is the "premium option", the easier to get and assemble, but the most expensive one. As a cheaper alternative you can get the SCBA or SCUBA parts separately, this latter option will require the use of an air-to-nitrogen adapter, since it will use an air regulator instead of a nitrogen one.

Both SCBA and SCUBA have the same operating principle, the regulator reduces the cylinder pressure (200 bar) to about 7.5~10 bar, which is sent to the demand valve, that reduces it again in a dynamic way that always maintains a positive pressure inside the mask (so it's physically impossible for the external air to enter the mask). The differece is that SCUBA is made for a water environment (SCBA for gaseous environment) and the SCUBA regulator usually doesn't have a pressure gauge (SCBA always has a pressure gauge).

EM kit ("premium" option):
View attachment 96995

SCBA parts (cheaper option):
View attachment 97006

SCUBA parts by befree (cheaper option):
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/how-to-ctb-by-using-nitrogen-gas.93809/#post-1667048

Thanks for the answer and your help!! I already ordered the EEBD hood so I think I am going to stick with that. Does anybody know if it takes longer with the EEBD hood to loose consciousness instead of the SCBA gear?
I have another general question. Are there people who have experience with buying good Nitrogen in the Netherlands / Europe? I find it pretty hard and stressfull to find one.

What I understand is that I need at least 600 liters N and at least 99% purity (which often is not mentioned, so how do I know?) and it should not exceed 206 bars of pressure, because that is the max of the EM regulator as I understand?

 

[GasMonkey]

Does anybody know if it takes longer with the EEBD hood to loose consciousness instead of the SCBA gear?

Once the hood is filled it should be about the same. That hood has an internal mask with valves for CO2 purging and it's explicity engineered for the subject matter, so it looks like a good method too.

The PPeH specifies that one must blow out ALL the air in the lungs and then take a huge DEEP breath, which causes a massive drop in O2 saturation. Philip says that with that method you lose consciousness in 1 or 2 breaths, VERY fast.

Are there people who have experience with buying good Nitrogen in the Netherlands / Europe?

4/\/\4z0|\| stickstoff

I need at least 600 liters

Depends on the flow rate that you are gonna use, the most common cylinder sizes are:
▪ 2L 200bar (400L)
▪ 5L 200bar (1000L)
▪ 8L 150bar (1200L)
▪ 8L 200bar (1600L)
▪ 10L 200bar (2000L)

Anything over 10L is not interesting coz they are too big and heavy (total overkill) but there are documented cases in the medical literature of folks who CTB'd using huge 20/30L cylinders that they dragged around to their room.

at least 99% purity (which often is not mentioned, so how do I know?)

If you don't see the the purity rating specified you can ask the seller, the most common ratings are:
▪ 2.8 (99.8%)
▪ 4.0 (99.99%)
▪ 5.0 (99.999%)
▪ 6.0 (99.9999%)

it should not exceed 206 bars of pressure

There are no N2 cylinders over 200 bar for individuals, only huge (over 50L) entrepise size ones go over 200 (usually 300 bar).

N

N is used here for Nembutal, N2 for Nitrogen.

Could a turkey bag exit hood be improved with a nebulizer mask inside to direct the flow of nitrogen to the nose and mouth and blow exhaled carbon dioxide out?

Difficult to say if it would be an improvement over the classic bag, you would have a more direct flow of N2 to the mouth but the exhaled CO2 should build up inside the bag more than using the bag alone.

 

[youareforgiven]

4/\/\4z0|\| stickstoff


Depends on the flow rate that you are gonna use, the most common cylinder sizes are:
▪ 2L 200bar (400L)
▪ 5L 200bar (1000L)
▪ 8L 150bar (1200L)
▪ 8L 200bar (1600L)
▪ 10L 200bar (2000L)

If you don't see the the purity rating specified you can ask the seller, the most common ratings are:
▪ 2.8 (99.8%)
▪ 4.0 (99.99%)
▪ 5.0 (99.999%)
▪ 6.0 (99.9999

Hi Gasmonkey,

Thanks again. Yes, so I can also order from 4/\/\4z0|\|, BUT the one that is offered has contradicting info:

It says it is a 8L, 150 bar, ~1,5M3 N2 from a Polish supplier(V). Next to that there is a sticker with number 2 on the front, but it says the purity is 99,998% (then it should be grade 4). You see this contradicting information? That's why I don't trust it, but at the same time it is the easiest one to order so I prefer it. What do you think about it?

Kind regards,
Youareforgiven

 

[GasMonkey]

Next to that there is a sticker with number 2 on the front

The purity rating should appear with a decimal, so probably that number is not the purity.

 

[Andross01]

Trying with a SCUBA mask, I find it difficult to keep the mask on because breathing the N2 is not the same as breathing air (it smells very metallic) and SI kicks in quickly. Also the heart starts beating quite fast as soon as oxygen levels in the blood drop, which is a very unpleasant experience. I notice some dizziness, but that is still far away from unconciousness. Also when unconcious, how would gas come into the mask? With shallow breathing, the gas valve of the mouth piece will probably not open anymore.