Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[Amish]

No
99% or higher is what's recommended .
Better chance of failure when you go under this

Ok thanks

What justification could I give for buying pure helium, knowing that I don't work in the industry. Same question for argon nitrogen.

I'm also afraid of looking like a complete beginner and attracting suspicion when I pick up the gas cylinder from the depot and load it into a car without necessarily having the right equipment. Do you have any advice?

 

[kudaphillips]

Ok thanks

What justification could I give for buying pure helium, knowing that I don't work in the industry. Same question for argon nitrogen.

I'm also afraid of looking like a complete beginner and attracting suspicion when I pick up the gas cylinder from the depot and load it into a car without necessarily having the right equipment. Do you have any advice

Argon 100% for welding I know. Nitrogen is only used for laser welding , which is kind of obscure, so I'd maybe do a little research if you want to have a story . Industrially these gases are uses as displacing gases to displace oxygen for whatever purpose . it could be best to just say I'm picking it up for a friend of a fam8ly member and he wants 99.99 nitrogen not sure what he uses it for etc

 

[limeoctave]

Ok thanks

What justification could I give for buying pure helium, knowing that I don't work in the industry. Same question for argon nitrogen.

I'm also afraid of looking like a complete beginner and attracting suspicion when I pick up the gas cylinder from the depot and load it into a car without necessarily having the right equipment. Do you have any advice?

as i know, nitrogen is used for pressure testing of refrigerators and AC, also, I heard that it can be used in brewery and for the wine, but im not sure

i'd also say that it's not for me, and i was asked to buy it with high purity

and be careful with the valve and secure the cylinder well in the car

 

[Amish]

So I did my research and discovered that nitrogen can be used to serve draught beer. It's used for stouts. I can use an event or a wedding as an excuse to say that we're going to serve draught beer, if someone bothers me to collect the gas.


I have another question:
This type of regulator is calibrated for Ar/CO2. Do you think I can still use it on a nitrogen bottle and convert the 15l/min to Ar/Co2, or won't it be accurate enough?



There's a regulator for nitrogen with flow rate, but it's 6x more expensive. Do you think the 15l/min needs to be very precise or is a margin of error ok?

 

[kudaphillips]

So I did my research and discovered that nitrogen can be used to serve draught beer. It's used for stouts. I can use an event or a wedding as an excuse to say that we're going to serve draught beer, if someone bothers me to collect the gas.


I have another question:
This type of regulator is calibrated for Ar/CO2. Do you think I can still use it on a nitrogen bottle and convert the 15l/min to Ar/Co2, or won't it be accurate enough?

View attachment 143272

There's a regulator for nitrogen with flow rate, but it's 6x more expensive. Do you think the 15l/min needs to be very precise or is a margin of error ok?

Argon regulators work fine . 15 lpm for argon is prob around 17-18 lpm for nitrogen since it's heavier . There is a conversion table 8n this thread somewhere maybe another member has it.

 

[limeoctave]

Argon regulators work fine . 15 lpm for argon is prob around 17-18 lpm for nitrogen since it's heavier . There is a conversion table 8n this thread somewhere maybe another member has it.

1.19 is coefficient i guess

Exit bag and inert gas megathread

There's probably no need to do a blackout test if you're confident the inert gas purity is high: I guess the pulse oximeter hooked up to your finger(as opposed to an oxygen sensor hooked up to the gas regulator) is handy for checking that your O2 levels are falling if you test the hood: It's...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[reno883]

Hello,
i am a new member and have been working on the topic of exit bags and nitrogen for some time, i made an exit bag and would like to hear your opinions as to whether it is okay for this method and used rubber band and adhesive tape for this,
fixed the elastic band with a knot, on my neck adjusted and left a small splat 2-3 fingers

 

[devils~advocate]

Hello,
i am a new member and have been working on the topic of exit bags and nitrogen for some time, i made an exit bag and would like to hear your opinions as to whether it is okay for this method and used rubber band and adhesive tape for this,
fixed the elastic band with a knot, on my neck adjusted and left a small splat 2-3 fingers

Looks workable. Did you follow a guideline to make this? There are few out there that go step by step on how to produce one.
There are many documented cases of this method being used. It is one of the several methods that is discussed by the International Exit group.

 

[kudaphillips]

Hello,
i am a new member and have been working on the topic of exit bags and nitrogen for some time, i made an exit bag and would like to hear your opinions as to whether it is okay for this method and used rubber band and adhesive tape for this,
fixed the elastic band with a knot, on my neck adjusted and left a small splat 2-3 fingers

View attachment 143553

Looks workable like DA said…I would definitely buy a fastener/ toggle. I think a guy a few pages back was having big problems getting it to work , had no toggle,…though he also didn't hav elastic which it looks like you do.
So I think workable, but could be better. Also can't really tell how big it is, needs to be turkey oven bag size

 

[Schmopo]

After getting a better sized double joiner to connect from the tube to EEBD tube, I now have got airflow into the mask. One issue I found is there's a deliberate(?) leak point from the regulator itself. There's a hole in the nut point that gets attached to the cylinder and it bleeds the N.

Is this normal or do I need to cover it somehow or buy a different regulator?

 

[reno883]

@devils~advocate, @kudaphillips,
thank you for your feedback, i got the instructions for the exit bag from a book that i bought from Amazon,
later i found this forum and also a video on how to make the exit bag, the bag is a turkey bag

 

[devils~advocate]

After getting a better sized double joiner to connect from the tube to EEBD tube, I now have got airflow into the mask. One issue I found is there's a deliberate(?) leak point from the regulator itself. There's a hole in the nut point that gets attached to the cylinder and it bleeds the N.

Is this normal or do I need to cover it somehow or buy a different regulator?

Ive noticed this hole in the threads on a few adapters as well. I believe it is for pressure relief. But it serves no purpose for this use.
I'd say try to get another adapter or regulator. One could use a sealant that is made for high pressure pneumatic parts and threads.
In your case, Im not sure what can be used....maybe some sort of tape could be used to block/cover the hole...a tape that has a high adhesion & resistance to tearing.

 

[justme1]

no


yes

at least mine (Draeger Saver CF)

if i remember correctly, when I closed the hole in the hose and tried to inhale, a vacuum was created, and the air did not enter the hood through the valve and elastic on the neck, even a little

@limeoctave

I have a drager hood (https://www.tmsup.com/products/drager-cf-saver-hood-assembly-se-drager-3359265), which I think... is the same you have. I thought I had a solid / ready to go setup, but then I read a post today (which I cannot find now) that has me concerned. The person was quoting a prior post (perhaps from gasmonkey) wherein it was noted you need some sort of relief valve (akin to an on-demand breather because a constant flow setup was prone to failure. Do you have any further info. re: this topic? As noted, I think / thought I had everything together, but that has me concerned. Thanks!
I'm hoping to get some clarification re: my plan please.

I have:

- a drager hood (https://www.tmsup.com/products/drager-cf-saver-hood-assembly-se-drager-3359265). The hood has an inlet hose, a snug facemask inside, a nice rubberized elastic seal around the neck area, and appears to have a small valve to expell expressed air (though I can't actually feel the air coming through).

- a size 40 industrial grade N2 container. I can't get 100% confirmation this is the 99.9 purity. I got it from Airgas, and I can see it's the industrial-grade (not the food grade). Assuming the purity is okay, I think the 40 is sufficient from my research here.

- I got an argon regulator, and additional components to link everything together, and didn't find any leaks when I did so.

My two main concerns:
1. Pertains to the N2. Is it "pure" enough? Do I have sufficient supply? I "think" I'm okay on both, but would love feedback.

2. The mask setup. I've recently seen some posts indicating a need for an on-demand valve (like with a scuba setup) or some sort of reservoir. I understand how an on-demand valve works, but I "thought" the setup I put together was generally thought to be sufficient (based on reading posts). I'm now having some second thoughts whether I'd run into an issue. I haven't tested the setup, aside from putting an oxygen sensor in the mask, sealing it, and confirming the reading did promptly drop when I turned on the N2. My understanding is the real issue comes down to whether the particular setup is going to avoid the SI.

I'd love some feedback on any of these concerns. Thanks!

 

[limeoctave]

I have a drager hood (https://www.tmsup.com/products/drager-cf-saver-hood-assembly-se-drager-3359265), which I think... is the same you have.

Hi, yes, I think it's the same one I have

Do you have any further info. re: this topic?

No, I haven't read about this

If we are talking about the EEBD method, I don't know why any kind of reservoir is needed here. I think the internal reservoir of the hood is sufficient. It can be calculated, I guess. I don't know much about on-demand valve, but EEBD system works with constant flow as far as I know, and I don't even know how to combine on-demand valve and EEBD hood, and if it's even possible, and why it's needed. Or am I missing something?

I haven't tested the setup, aside from putting an oxygen sensor in the mask, sealing it, and confirming the reading did promptly drop when I turned on the N2.

Thank you for sharing

---

Oh, I see, sorry, you mean this person said that constant flow systems are prone to failure as opposed to on-demand systems, not about mixing EEBD hood and on-demand valve. I don't think so. I don't see why constant flow wouldn't work if done properly, but I'd like to see this person's arguments

 

[reno883]

I want to use this pressure reducer for nitrogen and attach a silicone hose to the outlet with 2 cable ties, is that okay?
pressure reducer Maximum pressure bottle gauge: 0-315 bar Flow rate: 0-30 liters/minute

 

[Schmopo]

Ive noticed this hole in the threads on a few adapters as well. I believe it is for pressure relief. But it serves no purpose for this use.
I'd say try to get another adapter or regulator. One could use a sealant that is made for high pressure pneumatic parts and threads.
In your case, Im not sure what can be used....maybe some sort of tape could be used to block/cover the hole...a tape that has a high adhesion & resistance to tearing.

Sadly it's not easy to find the right regulator in-stores where I am. If I tried sealing, isn't there a possible risk of the regulator shooting out from the tank or some sort of intense pressure buildup that could cause problems?

 

[devils~advocate]

Sadly it's not easy to find the right regulator in-stores where I am. If I tried sealing, isn't there a possible risk of the regulator shooting out from the tank or some sort of intense pressure buildup that could cause problems?

I wouldn't think it would be a risk. Regulators used for industrial purposes (i.e. welding, etc) don't have this small hole. And the cylinders (tanks) are pressurized at the same pressure as used for this method. Im not sure why the hole is there.....Ive seen it on underwater scuba related fittings for some reason. Im just not sure why.

 

[justme1]

Hi, yes, I think it's the same one I have


No, I haven't read about this

If we are talking about the EEBD method, I don't know why any kind of reservoir is needed here. I think the internal reservoir of the hood is sufficient. It can be calculated, I guess. I don't know much about on-demand valve, but EEBD system works with constant flow as far as I know, and I don't even know how to combine on-demand valve and EEBD hood, and if it's even possible, and why it's needed. Or am I missing something?


Thank you for sharing

---

Oh, I see, sorry, you mean this person said that constant flow systems are prone to failure as opposed to on-demand systems, not about mixing EEBD hood and on-demand valve. I don't think so. I don't see why constant flow wouldn't work if done properly, but I'd like to see this person's arguments

Thanks. The setup I put together seemed logical to me, but that comment had me concerned. Take care

 

[k1w1]

Thank you. I'm considering SCBA... feeling a time crunch but trying to learn all I can to see if it's something I can make work. It's quite expensive unfortunately.

Try the Chinese sites. Very affordable, and you can ask for it sans tank. Im investigating this at present.

The shiny metal part on the right hand side of the black wheel, is the 'reducer' or regulator for a scba system.
It brings the pressure from the cylinder down from 2200 psi to around 100 psi.
Then from there the hose from the LDV is connected to it.
View attachment 142979

Some of the LDVs have their hose directly connected to this reducer.
While other LDVs (newer ones) have this kind of quick connection at the end that allows one to attach or unattach the hose line quickly.
I think the quick connection is the V style. Ive tested it and this appears to be the case. (background info: there are several styles of quick-connect parts...industrial, automotive, high flow V, etc)

View attachment 142980

Well if you are in Europe, India (which where I got an LDV from)...I would imagine one could obtain a full scba system.
One would need to check out fire fighting groups as a possible source. They are always getting rid of used equipment.
Well since you know about TIG welding...there are regulators available that allow for micro control of the flow.

I would like to assemble something like yours. Were you able to buy the kit without the tank?

After getting a better sized double joiner to connect from the tube to EEBD tube, I now have got airflow into the mask. One issue I found is there's a deliberate(?) leak point from the regulator itself. There's a hole in the nut point that gets attached to the cylinder and it bleeds the N.

Is this normal or do I need to cover it somehow or buy a different regulator?

On mine, the nut with the hole screws down over the threads, to which I added some thread tape...it is airtight. Looks like we have a similar regulator....built in flow meter>?
This may be of use to anyone setting up a nitrogen setup, particuarly with an EEBD hood. I had been informed that 15lpm was the correct flow, so bought a .9 cu mtr tank. I found after a few tests etc that I'd ripped through just under half & that I needed 25lpm for comfort. ....0.9 cubes is about 20mins at 25lpm. The gas swap people were very cool and I only had to pay 100 bucks difference to swap to 1.9 cu mtr. filled. Massive tank, feeling way more confidant. I am a motorcyclist and Nitro is used in tyres as the particles are larger so it doesnt leech or cause perishing as oxygen does. This is a sound reason to purchase the stuff. Best wishes.

 

[peacefuldeath2017]

Will the elastic draw chord completely sinch around the hose or will there be a gap that needs to be addressed to prevent airflow into the bag?

 

[Blockz]

People, it's not so complicated

Read the PPH

i have read the PPH but im still struggling to understand how to construct everything together and what tools & equipment is necessary for a successful build im based in the UK please pm me dont write on here

 

[kudaphillips]

Will the elastic draw chord completely sinch around the hose or will there be a gap that needs to be addressed to prevent airflow into the bag?

It's not gonna be air tight. It's not supposed to be. Yes where the tube meets the elastic will be a little gap

i have read the PPH but im still struggling to understand how to construct everything together and what tools & equipment is necessary for a successful build im based in the UK please pm me dont write on here

there's a few videos in this thread that are great. Asian guy, dude with the double helium tanks , Betty

What parts are you struggling with

 

[Blockz]

It's not gonna be air tight. It's not supposed to be. Yes where the tube meets the elastic will be a little gap

there's a few videos in this thread that are great. Asian guy, dude with the double helium tanks , Betty

What parts are you struggling with

i pm'd you i think better to speak in private

 

[SonicFan1994]

Good find. Would still need some sort of 1st stage pressure reducer.
But I would think that shouldnt be hard to find.
The hose connection on the ldv is a quick connect kind. I think it would be the high flow (Euro) kind. Type V style (the major D manuf ldv are)
Then its just connecting that to the regulator/reducer. Regulator would need to have an outflow of at least 100 psi.


View attachment 142968

Would air slip through the mask somewhere? And what exactly are those type of mask called? CPac?

 

[devils~advocate]

Would air slip through the mask somewhere? And what exactly are those type of mask called? CPac?

Air should not slip into the mask. Its made to be air tight, in this case for Fire Fighters. This mask is part of whats called "SCBA" Self contained breathing apparatus.

Try the Chinese sites. Very affordable, and you can ask for it sans tank. Im investigating this at present.

I would like to assemble something like yours. Were you able to buy the kit without the tank?

On mine, the nut with the hole screws down over the threads, to which I added some thread tape...it is airtight. Looks like we have a similar regulator....built in flow meter>?
This may be of use to anyone setting up a nitrogen setup, particuarly with an EEBD hood. I had been informed that 15lpm was the correct flow, so bought a .9 cu mtr tank. I found after a few tests etc that I'd ripped through just under half & that I needed 25lpm for comfort. ....0.9 cubes is about 20mins at 25lpm. The gas swap people were very cool and I only had to pay 100 bucks difference to swap to 1.9 cu mtr. filled. Massive tank, feeling way more confidant. I am a motorcyclist and Nitro is used in tyres as the particles are larger so it doesnt leech or cause perishing as oxygen does. This is a sound reason to purchase the stuff. Best wishes.

Let me know what you find out from any Chinese websites...Im curious what they offer.

Yes you can obtain all the parts individually. Im not even sure if you can get it with a tank. Those cylinders are made for oxygen anyway.
The individual parts are offered used, but they are still in working order. A lot cheaper than a new kit.

 

[k1w1]

Air should not slip into the mask. Its made to be air tight, in this case for Fire Fighters. This mask is part of whats called "SCBA" Self contained breathing apparatus.

Let me know what you find out from any Chinese websites...Im curious what they offer.

Yes you can obtain all the parts individually. Im not even sure if you can get it with a tank. Those cylinders are made for oxygen anyway.
The individual parts are offered used, but they are still in working order. A lot cheaper than a new kit.

ok, ill go window shopping and post what i come up with. Yes, i have seen plenty pre-owned gear....its a smart way to aquire the components.

 

[Amish]

Technical question, please I need a specialist answer :

On a regulator, is it possible to convert pressure into flow rate with math formula? I have this type of regulator, for Nitrogen


How to convert bar into l/min ?

Or does this, put a the exit will be enough to know the flow rate ? :


Thanks

 

[Blockz]

Hi, guys I posted here yesterday as I'm new here I am also a new member and have only just using the forums and threads since yesterday, I was wondering if any of you users are from the UK, I would greatly appreciate if you could pm me sources and links to all the equipment which is required since Adam's gas doesn't deliver to my area I'm going to have to do more research but in terms of the regulator/ flow meter and the tubing and any other equipment and tools are needed to carry out this method please do send sources and links I am looking to CTB asap so please do get back to me thankyou, I have read the pph in regards to this method but the method is via the exit bag and the is through scba which is somewhat different

 

[devils~advocate]

Technical question, please I need a specialist answer :

On a regulator, is it possible to convert pressure into flow rate with math formula? I have this type of regulator, for Nitrogen

View attachment 144315
How to convert bar into l/min ?

Or does this, put a the exit will be enough to know the flow rate ? :

View attachment 144316
Thanks

I dont believe one can convert pressure into flow directly.....its two different units....and I think it is dependent on the bore size of openings, hoses, etc.
There are flow rate calculators online.....but they seem daunting to use or there is a variable that one might not know.

There are regulators that have a built in flow meter on them. Or one can add in series to the gas flow.

This particular one is in cubic feet per hour (f3/hr).......and 15 L/m = 32 f3/hr
This one is calibrated for CO2, nitrogen's flow rate is less...so to get 15 L/m this would need to be set to about 45 f3/hr for nitrogen gas.
(I might be wrong, but I think the correction factor btwn CO2 & N is about 0.70)
(This one has the cga-580 thread connection that is used in nitrogen cylinders as well)

 

[rj3542]

Hey everyone, thank you so much for this site. I have bipolar and several health issues and have been suffering for 30 years. No problems with breathing though that would prohibit this method. My life has gotten to where I just can't keep going anymore. Everything is prepared down to instructions and my will.

I've been reading threads for several weeks and have a setup for nitrogen with EEBD. I went with EEBD because of so many challenges reported with getting the tightness of the exit bag just right and loosing too much nitrogen, but I do have an exit bag I tested with oxygen while waiting for the EEBD to arrive, and it inflates well and works fine. I have it just in case.

I have tested my EEBD several times with oxygen and everything worked well. I was fine with the hood on for even a few minutes with oxygen with no problems with CO2 buildup.

I was able to modify the EEBD hood so the internal mask part fits snug on my face but I can still feel air through the exhale valve when I breathe out. My gas line connections are definitely air tight too so no leaking from the tank to the EEBD.

Today I tried my setup breathing nitrogen for the first time. I have an Argon regulator with flow meter. I tried 40 CFH (which works out to about 22 liters per minute nitrogen, as I understand it). It was easy to breathe.

Within about 5 breaths of nitrogen thought I felt lightheaded but then my heart started pounding and severe anxiety kicked in. I had to stop. I'm at peace with dying. That doesn't scare me. Suffering scares me, but I think this was more physiological. This was about 3 hours ago and I'm still feeling sleepy, fuzzy headed and have a headache. I don't think CO2 would cause those symptoms that quickly, but maybe? This is why I think it was physiological from the nitrogen. I've read all the studies posted in the various threads, several experience posts, the PPH, final exit, etc. several times. I don't think it's as easy as PHP claims though.

I was still hoping I would pass out before the serious SI kicked in.

How can I get past the SI? Has anyone been able to pass out with EEBD? I need to CTB soon before I lose my chance. Thank you for any help!