Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[Kapsyl]

How big of a tank is recommended for Nitrogen at 25lpm?

25/kom X 30min = 750 liters, i would recommend around 1000l for testing your setup without sacrificing time.

Something which is bothering me that I can barely find success stories with inert gas method despite it is expected to be the most peaceful way.
I saw Vizzy's and LetzteAusfahrt's setup for example and in the end they went by a different method.
What could be the flaw in these methods, why did they abandon it?

Onomatopoeia recently successfully CTB with scuba method and Pph list exit bag as one of the recommended methods. The coffin pod in Switzerland also work in the same principle with high success rate.

So there is nothing wrong with the mechanics of the method but rather the execution of it. I will admit I've seen a lot of problems with the exit bag lately and I'm not sure why.

I've yet to test my inert gas method but I'm pretty confident in it, my worries are mostly around how peaceful it is not the lethality.

 

[roku6]

Quote vizzys method please

Goodbye Thread - CTB Today

I don’t know it is divine intervention or not, nothing can stop me from ctb, it can delay my process but I am doing it anyways Thank you for your thoughts ❤️ i'm sure we'll all be sticking around until the very last to make sure that u have the send off u deserve. thank u for staying with us...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[Alex Fermentopathy]

my worries are mostly around how peaceful it is not the lethality.

As a survivor I can say that it's a very peaceful. I just made a few breaths and passed out.

 

[winterparty]

Goodbye Thread - CTB Today

I don’t know it is divine intervention or not, nothing can stop me from ctb, it can delay my process but I am doing it anyways Thank you for your thoughts ❤️ i'm sure we'll all be sticking around until the very last to make sure that u have the send off u deserve. thank u for staying with us...

sanctioned-suicide.net

He seems to be right. So @GasMonkey was all wrong about how @Vizzy killed himself?


It's getting stranger here than I thought. I was able to access vizzys profile for a minute and now I don't?

 

[Tears in Rain]

Something which is bothering me that I can barely find success stories with inert gas method despite it is expected to be the most peaceful way.
I saw Vizzy's and LetzteAusfahrt's setup for example and in the end they went by a different method.
What could be the flaw in these methods, why did they abandon it?

This method isn't that popular on here compared to other methods like SN.
Plus not everyone posts a goodbye thread.

@Vizzy seemed to take SN and use an EEBD hood with nitrogen also.
In his goodbye thread he said he took SN, but there was news stories from Thailand of an EEBD hood ctb (where he was living), which people here said was him.

In the last maybe 3 months I've only seen 3 inert gas goodbye threads:
@onomatopoeia SCUBA & nitrogen
@Banan321 exit bag & nitrogen
@pphinquiry SCBA & nitrogen

I previously linked a couple of other goodbye threads on the following thread:

Successful gas cases

How many successful cases with gas are there in this forum? I think gas money was successful but who else? I only remember a few cases where it didn't work and there was no explanation for it...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Other goodbye threads I came across:
@SadRiceBall26(nitrogen & exit bag)

Good Night!

This is it, I think. I’ve got my N2 and exit bag ready. I’ve driven to my spot. Hopefully it’s good enough so that no one will notice me…I guess we’ll find out. I’m glad I found this website. Everyone on here has been great and very helpful. I only hope for the best on your ctb journeys...

sanctioned-suicide.net

@Wunderkind (nitrogen + SCBA)

I left on the bus â¤ï¸Thanks Sasuâ¤ï¸

I welcome everyone. If you're reading this, it means that I've been fortunate enough to successfully embark on a wonderful bus journey. This is a scheduled thread. I would like to express my deep gratitude to everyone who develops this community. Without you, it would be much more difficult for...

sanctioned-suicide.net

@Crushed_Innocence(helium + exit bag)

Goodbye SS Family: My Bus Arrives Tonight

I have 6-8 hours left. I'm a little nervous. But I generally feel at peace. I am in a beautiful location. I will be on and off the thread for the following hours right up until it is time for me to board, then I will self ban. FINALLY, I made it to the departure platform. This is the right thing...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[Pikmin]

Is a 15lpm O2 regulator good enough for Nitrogen? I ordered one recommended by another user here, I'm unable to find a Nitrogen regulator in the US. Even the $250 Nitrogen Regulators require a business license for a doctor's office or dentist. I've been trying to get one for two weeks, with no luck.

 

[outrider567]

Something which is bothering me that I can barely find success stories with inert gas method despite it is expected to be the most peaceful way.
I saw Vizzy's and LetzteAusfahrt's setup for example and in the end they went by a different method.
What could be the flaw in these methods, why did they abandon it?

Vizzy used Nitrogen at 20 LPM to CTB, he got most of his equipment from China

 

[Tears in Rain]

Is a 15lpm O2 regulator good enough for Nitrogen? I ordered one recommended by another user here, I'm unable to find a Nitrogen regulator in the US. Even the $250 Nitrogen Regulators require a business license for a doctor's office or dentist. I've been trying to get one for two weeks, with no luck.

No, that O2 regulator won't fit a nitrogen cylinder. In the U.S., nitrogen cylinders use a CGA 580 connection. It's also the connection for argon and helium cylinders there, so you could use an argon or helium regulator with flowmeter. But not an O2 regulator.

CGA Fitting Reference | CONCOA

A CGA fitting is the standardized system for the attachment of a compressed gas cylinder to the required regulator or transfer line. Examples of CGA fittings would be CGA-580 for Non-flamable, Non-oxidizing gases such as Nitrogen, Argon, or Helium. CGA-590 is used for compressed air and CGA-326...

www.concoa.com

 

[Pikmin]

No, that O2 regulator won't fit a nitrogen cylinder. In the U.S., nitrogen cylinders use a CGA 580 connection. It's also the connection for argon and helium cylinders there, so you could use an argon or helium regulator with flowmeter. But not an O2 regulator.

CGA Fitting Reference | CONCOA

A CGA fitting is the standardized system for the attachment of a compressed gas cylinder to the required regulator or transfer line. Examples of CGA fittings would be CGA-580 for Non-flamable, Non-oxidizing gases such as Nitrogen, Argon, or Helium. CGA-590 is used for compressed air and CGA-326...

www.concoa.com

I have an adapter for a CGA580, and it does fit on my cylinder. I was wondering if the flow rate would be okay, because as far as I know, I won't get 15lpm with the oxygen regulator, it will be like 13.5lpm. I don't know if that calculation is correct, so I'm hoping someone who knows might be able to tell me if it's closer or not to 15lpm, and if it's safe. Or, preferably, where to get a click-style nitrogen regulator that doesn't require me to be a doctor or dentist.

 

[Tears in Rain]

I have an adapter for a CGA580, and it does fit on my cylinder. I was wondering if the flow rate would be okay, because as far as I know, I won't get 15lpm with the oxygen regulator, it will be like 13.5lpm. I don't know if that calculation is correct, so I'm hoping someone who knows might be able to tell me if it's closer or not to 15lpm, and if it's safe. Or, preferably, where to get a click-style nitrogen regulator that doesn't require me to be a doctor or dentist.

Well if you have an adapter, then it's fine to use. Going by a conversion chart I linked in a previous post, setting the oxygen regulator to 15 LPM gives a nitrogen flowrate of 16 LPM(15 X 1.06). There's not much of a difference between the density of oxygen and nitrogen.

I think there was a bit of confusion before, from previous posts I read, about the conversion rate for using nitrogen with an argon flowmeter. But it seemed eventually people settled on the conversion rate of 1.19. You multiply the argon regulator litres per minute(LPM) reading by 1.19 to give the actual nitrogen flowrate.
So:
- 12.5LPM on argon flowmeter gives ~15litres LPM nitrogen flow
- 15LPM on argon flowmeter gives ~ 18LPM nitrogen flow
- 20 LPM on argon flowmeter gives ~ 24 LPM nitrogen flow

Or do the opposite, and multiply the nitrogen flowrate you want by 0.84, to give the argon regulator rate you need to set.
E.g. -15(LPM nitrogen flowrate you want) * 0.84 = ~12.5 (argon LPM regulator setting).
- 25(LPM nitrogen flowrate you want) * 0.84 = ~ 21(argon LPM regulator setting).
Etc.

Here's the conversion chart people previously used.
View attachment 131937

They give an example, using helium with an argon flowmeter. The website used standard cubic feet per hour (SCFH). It's the same conversion for litres per minute (LPM).
Their final result should say 'Actual Helium Flow', not 'Actual Argon Flow'. That was a mistake on their part:

View attachment 131927

Can you accurately flow a different gas through a flow control device not calibrated for the same gas?

www.harrisproductsgroup.com

If you're still worried about it, then you may be more comfortable using a nitrogen regulator with nitrogen. You have 3 options:
1)Nitrogen regulator with floating ball flowmeter(Litres per minute (LPM) or Standard cubic feet per hour (SCFH), which can be converted to LPM:

View attachment 131930

2)Nitrogen regulator with litres per minute gauge:
View attachment 131931

3)Nitrogen click-style regulator:
View attachment 131933

 

[Pikmin]

Well if you have an adapter, then it's fine to use. Going by a conversion chart I linked in a previous post, setting the oxygen regulator to 15 LPM gives a nitrogen flowrate of 16 LPM(15 X 1.06). There's not much of a difference between the density of oxygen and nitrogen.

Thank you!

 

[color_me_gone]

When all I'm inhaling is helium, do I even exhale CO2?

Yes you do still exhale CO2, here's why:

You blood supply always holds a reserve of oxygen.
It does not go to zero as soon as you begin inhaling inert gas.
As long as your blood still has some O2 in it, you will continue to exhale some CO2.
The process continues until you no longer have enough O2 in your blood to sustain life.
The reserve oxygen is why you don't become unconscious right away,
and also why you don't die right away.

 

[thegoldengirls]

So, I've received my eebd hood and it looks so small, even more smaller compared to the pictures on the seller's page. The thought of put it on is daunting. I feel bad doing this to a private seller in a third world country, but I have to return it. I've spent so much much money, I can't afford to keep this if I won't be using it.
I'm feeling discouraged, and I think I may just take the jump and upgrade to Scba method. I'll just put it on a credit card. It would be worth it, especially if it's as superior and reliable as alot of posters say they are.
I have my eye on a Neptune 3 package,
So, I've been reading the Scba threads.

 

[Tears in Rain]

So, I've received my eebd hood and it looks so small, even more smaller compared to the pictures on the seller's page. The thought of put it on is daunting. I feel bad doing this to a private seller in a third world country, but I have to return it. I've spent so much much money, I can't afford to keep this if I won't be using it.

The hood can seem a bit tight to put on initially, but they're designed to have the inner mask snug on the mouth.

But if its off-putting to have a hood on your head, you may as well send it back.

I'm feeling discouraged, and I think I may just take the jump and upgrade to Scba method. I'll just put it on a credit card. It would be worth it, especially if it's as superior and reliable as alot of posters say they are.
I have my eye on a Neptune 3 package,
So, I've been reading the Scba threads.

Is that Neptune III that you are referring to the SCUBA diving package? That's different to the SCBA(self contained breathing apparatus) firefighter gear.
You'll need a SCUBA adapter for the cylinder.

I guess the mask might be less claustrophobic for you than an exit bag or hood.

 

[Pikmin]

Can I just use some 3/8ths plastic tubing from the hardware store? I have everything except a hose.

 

[Tears in Rain]

Can I just use some 3/8ths plastic tubing from the hardware store? I have everything except a hose.

I've never bought plastic tubing, but someone previously posted the following:


Hardware stores in some countries sell vinyl tubing, same thing.

 

[Pikmin]

I wanted to share my experience buying Nitrogen from Airgas in the US.

The employees didn't know if the nitrogen they carried was 99 percent, so I had to wait 40 minutes for them to get in contact with the distributor. While I was waiting, I was getting interrogated about why I needed 99 percent, and lower purities would be fine. I anticipated some questioning, spoke about plastic welding. They then seriously questioned me about how nitrogen is used to weld plastic, I said it's basically like a shielding gas, and they finally let it go. It was super uncomfortable to just bullshit two employees for so long. Honestly after getting home, the whole experience was just so taxing and uncomfortable I don't want to CTB as bad right now lol. I'm sure I'll feel depressed again soon.

 

[joeschmo]

I wanted to share my experience buying Nitrogen from Airgas in the US.

The employees didn't know if the nitrogen they carried was 99 percent, so I had to wait 40 minutes for them to get in contact with the distributor. While I was waiting, I was getting interrogated about why I needed 99 percent, and lower purifies would be fine. I anticipated some questioning, spoke about plastic welding. They then seriously questioned me about how nitrogen is used to weld plastic, I said it's basically like a shielding gas, and they finally let it go. It was super uncomfortable to just bullshit two employees for so long. Honestly after getting home, the whole experience was just so taxing and uncomfortable I don't want to CTB as bad right now lol. I'm sure I'll feel depressed again soon.

Being from the U.S. this is some really helpful information. My plan was to pick 3 locations and simply give them a short "it's for brewing beer" response, and if they kept asking I would just leave and try the other 2 locations. Chances are one of them will simply sell the gas without questioning.
Curious though, what state and store was it? If you can't say it here then PM me if you like.

 

[needout]

Anyone struggling with the method due to si kicking in and removed the hood after a few seconds even though you know it's your only way out? guilt or adrenaline rush to stop trying it?fear of it going wrong or the mess you leave behind.

 

[Pikmin]

Anyone struggling with the method due to si kicking in and removed the hood after a few seconds even though you know it's your only way out? guilt or adrenaline rush to stop trying it?fear of it going wrong or the mess you leave behind.

I haven't attempted yet, but as far as I know, if you're doing it as the PPeH suggests, you should pass out within a few breaths - not 30 seconds, but like 10 seconds or less. They explicitly say 1-2 breaths. They recommend putting the bag over your head - think of a chef's hat, and hyperventilate for two minutes while the bag is filling with inert gas. Once the bag is fully inflated over your head, exhale completely - all of the air out of your lungs, pull the bag down and cinch it closed around your neck. Take very deep breaths, and you should pass out very fast.

 

[Justnotme]

I wanted to share my experience buying Nitrogen from Airgas in the US.

The employees didn't know if the nitrogen they carried was 99 percent, so I had to wait 40 minutes for them to get in contact with the distributor. While I was waiting, I was getting interrogated about why I needed 99 percent, and lower purities would be fine. I anticipated some questioning, spoke about plastic welding. They then seriously questioned me about how nitrogen is used to weld plastic, I said it's basically like a shielding gas, and they finally let it go. It was super uncomfortable to just bullshit two employees for so long. Honestly after getting home, the whole experience was just so taxing and uncomfortable I don't want to CTB as bad right now lol. I'm sure I'll feel depressed again soon.

Damn, I hate these questions..
Dude, just sell it to me, what the fuck do you want from me?
Or do you really think that I can't read on the Internet why I need nitrogen with 99% purity before buying so that I don't look suspicious?

Some unknown people think they are our judge

 

[Elzar]

Yes you do still exhale CO2, here's why:

You blood supply always holds a reserve of oxygen.
It does not go to zero as soon as you begin inhaling inert gas.
As long as your blood still has some O2 in it, you will continue to exhale some CO2.
The process continues until you no longer have enough O2 in your blood to sustain life.
The reserve oxygen is why you don't become unconscious right away,
and also why you don't die right away.

Thanks for the explanation and sorry for not answering sooner, had very little time over the last days.


Does anyone know how pure Helium must be to be viable?

Where I buy, there is Helium 4.6, which is supposed to be of a guaranteed purity of 99,996%.
Then there is Helium 2.8 (99,8% purity) and "Balloon Gas" Helium 2.0 (99,0% purity).
All of those should be enough, I guess?

And what about Nitrogen? I'm considering to just switch to nitrogen, because of the flow-meter problem with Helium.
The Nitrogen there is segmented into 5.0 (99,999%), 4.0 (99,99%) and 2.8 (99,8%).
Again, If these percentage figures are accurate, then all of them should be good enough?

 

[color_me_gone]

Does anyone know how pure Helium must be to be viable?

All those percentages would be fine.
I would be wary of the balloon helium being 99%, as there is no reason for it to be that pure.
They switched to about 80% He, 20% atmosphere to prevent ctb.
Many have not remembered to change the figures on their spec sheet.

And what about Nitrogen? I'm considering to just switch to nitrogen,

Nitrogen would be a smart move.
Since atmosphere is something like 78% nitrogen, the difference wouldn't be noticable.
The densities of Argon, Nitrogen and atmosphere are very close, making the flow meter settings not so important.
Helium is much lighter, causing flow meter accuracy problems.
Helium is currently scarce, causing a significant cost increase.

Again, If these percentage figures are accurate, then all of them should be good enough?

Yes

 

[thegoldengirls]

To make the bag less claustrophobic, I purchased dust masks from the dollar store. It helps a great deal.
During my practice run, I was able to keep the bag on, and even when I saw my oxygen level drop to 89 I did not panick. It may not seem like much, but for me, that's a big feat. The dust mask prevents the bag from touching my face when I inhale.
And as proven with my oxygen level dropping, it doesn't affect the consumption of the Nitrogen.

 

[alexlynn74]

My experience was that I soon began to feel tingling in my hands, as if they were falling asleep. A short moment later I began to get dizzy, and my vision went grey around the edges. Each of the three times I have attempted this method, that's as far as I got before I flinched and removed the bag.

I did not experience any pain whatsoever, and no real discomfort aside from the mild tingling in my hands.

I do not believe I have suffered any ill effects from three aborted attempts. I had a bit of a cough for a couple days after my third attempt, but I can't say for sure whether that was attributable to the N2. It concerns me only in that this method demands that you be able to breathe freely in order for it to be effective, and I don't want to have ruined my chances to use it later, when I have summoned my courage.

My greatest difficulty is that I have been very stressed during my attempts, and could not keep my breathing steady and deep. This undoubtedly lengthened the amount of time it should have taken for me to black out.

In the stress of the situation, I experienced time dilation —in other words, I can't tell you how long it took for me to feel dizzy; it might have been five seconds, it might have been a minute and a half. It wasn't very long —but it was long enough for me to flinch.

From my experience, this is as painless, comfortable, and potentially peaceful a way to ctb as it is rumored to be. The only drawbacks that I can see are that it requires a lot of equipment —cylinder, regulator, hose, bag— and that there is a surprising amount of time for your survival instinct to kick in, or for second thoughts.

As I wrote at the beginning, I hope other forum members can fill in some of the blanks I have left —specifically, I have seen a lot of questions about tank sizes outside the US that I cannot answer.

I don't wish anyone good luck at catching the bus. I wish we could all find our way to a joyous and satisfying life that would make death an unfortunate reality rather than a longed-for relief. But all of us here know that the Fates aren't always that kind, and so I wish you all the most peaceful relief from your pain that you can find, and if that peace is brought by Death, I hope Death comes gently.

I tried this but still felt like I was suffocating, do you think the N method just doesn't work for some, I tested and my nitrogen is 99.8-99.9% pure and I got rid of all the air in my lungs and the bag prior

 

[ham and potatoes]

Sorry if this had already been asked, but since nitrogen tanks hold a massive volume of gas, couldn't you just do something like sit in your car and crack the valve on it?
A typical welding tank holds like 150 cubic feet of gas, and that is way bigger than the interior of a car. so shouldn't the gas displace all the air in there? or am i missing something?
thanks

 

[Kapsyl]

Sorry if this had already been asked, but since nitrogen tanks hold a massive volume of gas, couldn't you just do something like sit in your car and crack the valve on it?
A typical welding tank holds like 150 cubic feet of gas, and that is way bigger than the interior of a car. so shouldn't the gas displace all the air in there? or am i missing something?
thanks

I actually answered this very question a few days ago in this very tread, but sure it's possible. The main problem is getting all the existing air out the car, if you would start with a vacuum it would be just a matter up filling the cabin up with nitrogen. But replacing the air or pushing it out the car to successfully lower the oxygen atmosphere to 1-2% inside would require huge amounts. We would have to calculate how long it would take to push out the oxygen to even guess the amounts of nitrogen. You would probably succeed losing consciousness but lower the atmosphere so low to predictably ctb I'm not sure.

They have been accidents were people die from gas leaks from nitrogen, but doing it with predictable results require more researched method. We don't want to be found with an empty gas cylinder inside a car with brain damage, remember as soon the nitrogen is empty regular air starts flowing supporting life.

Argon or any inert gas is not poisonous, it simply replaces the oxygen depriving you from vital components for you to survive. To use a car you would have to replace all the air inside the car and keep it out for at least 20 min to ensure ctb.

A compact car have approximately the volume of 2800 liters of air, you would need to replace all that air very quickly and successfully replace it since the car isn't airtight to make this work. Since argon is a heavy gas it will form at bottom and up in car making it even harder since the head is near the ceiling of the car. It could work but you would need ridiculous amount of inert gas to pull it off.

There is a reason the bag or scuba/hood is used, to minimize the environment you breathe from making it quicker to replace the oxygen and using way less gas.

 

[msnirvana]

Actually, it kind of *is* this complicated, especially when you're explaining a lot of different things to people. I thank you, Tired Horse, for doing this. For folks willing to read it and follow along I think it's helpful. Would be awesome if we could add some pictures to the thread. This is my method and this confirms everything I have purchased and done. It didn't seem that complicated, but for people who don't normally buy inert gases, it is nice to know what to say and what is expected when we ask for something. There have also been TONS of questions on here back and forth about laying down, sitting up, mask, bag, no bag, elastic tight, too tight, not tight enough, etc. This is good work, imo.
Also adding that for me, I plan to ctb in my car in a slightly reclining position with my seatbelt on, with the tank in the seat next to me also seat belted in. Like we're going on a little drive to neverland....

I agree with everything you just said and that sounds exactly like i was gonna do it just drive to a peaceful remote location where i wont be disturbed and in the comfort of my warm car, where as I don't live alone i cant do it at home.

 

[softflyte]

Hey, I've tried the exit bag with argon. About 30 seconds in I started feeling like I was suffocating, which is obviously not what is supposed to happen. Trying to figure out what's wrong. The bag was fully inflated. Reading about suicide bag on wiki it says this won't work because it's heavier than air and will just fall out the bottom, but I thought it would still work, as long as there was a steady flow of gas into the bag. I'm thinking that co2 is not purging cas it's lighter. Would it be a terrible idea to go very snug around the neck, and put a small hole(small enough that it would still stay inflated)in the top of the bag so co2 can exit that way? Since argon being heavier wants to settle low.

 

[Tears in Rain]

Hey, I've tried the exit bag with argon. About 30 seconds in I started feeling like I was suffocating, which is obviously not what is supposed to happen. Trying to figure out what's wrong. The bag was fully inflated. Reading about suicide bag on wiki it says this won't work because it's heavier than air and will just fall out the bottom, but I thought it would still work, as long as there was a steady flow of gas into the bag. I'm thinking that co2 is not purging cas it's lighter. Would it be a terrible idea to go very snug around the neck, and put a small hole(small enough that it would still stay inflated)in the top of the bag so co2 can exit that way? Since argon being heavier wants to settle low.

Was your regulator set to 25 litres per minute (LPM)?

Argon should be set to 25 LPM.
Also, from what a couple of others said recently with nitrogen and the exit bag, nitrogen and helium should probably be set to 25 LPM also.

In the past on here there was some disagreement about whether 15lpm was a high enough gas flow with an exit bag or hood.
Derek Humphry, who wrote Final Exit, recommended 20 LPM. Others here agreed with him.

In the Final Exit 2020 Derek Humphry says: "For the nitrogen method set the nitrogen regulator outlet gauge at 20 liters per minute (LPM)"

This is my point. It can't be a mistake to use more L/m for more flow, better than too low flow, which can end in a desaster. More flow = less CO2 and more positive pressure in the bag/helmet.

I would never use a flow smaller than 20 L/m.