Well I too am looking for feedback regarding the one and two cylinder versions. I very much look forward to knowing how to build the larger version. Thanks folks.
Well I too am looking for feedback regarding the one and two cylinder versions. I very much look forward to knowing how to build the larger version. Thanks folks.
Looking to buy a DeBreather,,,,,,,, thats whereI am....
yea....too good to be true.... GD it.... :(
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For what it's worth, one of the reasons I signed up here was to reply to this post.
Ultimately it's the efficacy of the device that matters, and since you are the designer/builder your opinion counts most. I, for one, am deeply grateful that you're doing this, and hope you publish soon.
Meditation guide
Always was, is, and always shall be.
- Jun 22, 2020
- 6,089
Can I just clarify the mechanism of what makes this effective? What exactly is this doing, removing oxygen? Carbon dioxide? or both?
And what you are breathing in is whatever is in a plastic bag?
And what you are breathing in is whatever is in a plastic bag?
Have you been to the website? I imagine you have since you say you've talked to Richard.
According to the website
HOW IT WORKS
When we breathe normal "air," 80% consists of nitrogen and approximately 20% consists of oxygen. If the percentage of nitrogen were to increase for any reason, our brains would receive less oxygen and we would reach a point where the effects of this deficit, known as hypoxia, would become apparent. We would become light-headed, for example, and we would eventually lose consciousness if the oxygen concentration were to drop below 12%.
If the percentage of oxygen were to continue to fall below 7%, we would not be receiving enough oxygen to maintain the cellular functions of the brain and we would die. And in the absence of carbon dioxide, our bodies would not send us an obvious signal of danger – we would not feel short of breath, for example. We would not feel panic or any concern at all. In fact, hypoxia is often accompanied by a feeling of euphoria. It is a condition well-known to pilots who are warned against its silent dangers.
The R2D Rebreather creates a hypoxic environment by recirculating the air within the unit. The limited supply of oxygen is processed and consumed as it is converted into CO2 by the user's respiratory system. That CO2 is passed through two canisters filled with soda lime granules that absorb it so that CO2 is not re-circulated. Thus, each time the user inhales and exhales, the concentration of oxygen declines and the percentage of nitrogen increases. Depending on the respiration rate, hypoxia will lead to unconsciousness within 2-3 minutes. Death will inevitably follow as the oxygen concentration continues to fall to an unsustainable level.
This very simple approach to producing hypoxia is scientifically based and proven. It requires no outside assistance; if you properly don the mask, you can carry out your decision to end your life — peacefully, painlessly, and with dignity. The choice is yours. And if keeping that power to choose in your own two hands is important to you, then perhaps the R2D Rebreather is the solution you've been looking for.
GoodPersonEffed
Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
- Jan 11, 2020
- 6,727
I think, then, that the bag acts as a lung. The soda lime canisters filter out the CO, and as oxygen in the bag decreases, it is supposed to be displaced with nitrogen, leading to hypoxia.
This is the theory, but not what I experienced in application.
I experienced significant expansion of my lungs, quickly followed by and in conjunction with increasing physical distress, which I documented on this thread. I did not experience the hyperventilation effects of a plastic bag, which would be rapid short breaths (I have experienced this before and I know with confidence what it feels like for me). Nor did I experience hypoxia, which should be pleasant and not physically alarming. The distress I experienced was physical alarm at the introduction of something other than nitrogen, and I have no way of knowing what that was as I have no instruments to detect it, nor a pulse oximeter to detect changes in oxygen levels. I can only assume it was not, at the least, pure nitrogen, as I did not have the predictable response. Nor did I have the hyperventilation response of CO2.
This thread is getting confusing now too, because of some of it being about the R2D and some of it being about a version that someone is building a prototype of. Could we separate threads?
He is going to create a new thread with the specifics on how to build your own.
EDIT: I guess I'm wrong ! It was asked that a new thread be created.
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Meditation guide
Always was, is, and always shall be.
- Jun 22, 2020
- 6,089
It sounds like you were breathing carbon dioxide according to my experience with that. co2 causes an alarm reaction.
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GoodPersonEffed
Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
- Jan 11, 2020
- 6,727
Would you please describe the context of that experience? Such as breathing into a plastic bag, or perhaps a different context.
Meditation guide
Always was, is, and always shall be.
- Jun 22, 2020
- 6,089
Yes. A panic reaction is how the body responds to that. It sounds as if the canisters weren't working as planned.
I never saw the website for the debreather. I just saw that notice it's not available now.
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GoodPersonEffed
Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
- Jan 11, 2020
- 6,727
I note that I asked you a direct, reasonable question, to which you did not directly respond. You said yes as if you agreed, but it was an act of unwillingness to agree, and a redirection. I respectfully redirect this convenient back to the focus as it was clearly stated, post 1182. Are you willing to directly respond to it?
Panic response can be expressed in a variety of ways, so your response is too vague to argue against or agree with what I stated in detail. I note that you present as if you're agreeing, but to what I don't know, because it is not agreement with what I specifically said, and you are not providing specifics to determine that it directly related to my clearly detailed experience.
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TrailerTrash
Just Passing Through
- Oct 10, 2019
- 240
Ok folks ...... I'm not done adding the pictures to the construction sections, but am posting the first two thirds of the guide so people can ask questions and/or offer improvement suggestions. Please keep sarcastic and non-helpful comments to yourself.
1.0 The TrailerTrash ReBreatherDuring the final months of life, the author of this guide has researched many methods to achieve a painless death and concluded that very few provide a reliable, calm, clean, and non-garish exit from the bonds of earthly life. This guide is not intended to recommend or encourage suicide methods, but instead provides technical background and plans for building a ReBreather, which deprives a user of oxygen (hypoxia) for a peaceful death. The ReBreather design has been tested by the author using a pulse oximeter, which showed significant oxygen deprivation during the test period without discomfort. Based on the initial test results, a user should begin to drift towards unconsciousness within 15-20 minutes and ultimately achieve death within 50-60 minutes. All usage results and times depend on the User's health, breathing rate, quality of ReBreather assembly, and components used in the ReBreather's construction.
Readers of this guide may certainly feel free to criticize the components and methods selected for the ReBreather design and construction, but the goal was to provide a simple way for ReBreather builders with basic "hobby" skills to construct a ReBreather without having to find too many special parts and/or fittings, unless and only when such items were absolutely necessary. Anyone building a ReBreather can always purchase more esthetically pleasing components and the design can be implemented in alternate ways depending on what materials are available.
1.1 What Is A ReBreather
A ReBreather is a breathing apparatus containing the granular substance called "soda lime", which absorbs carbon dioxide CO2 in the user's exhaled breaths and permits rebreathing (recycling) of breaths without feeling the physiological panic that occurs when CO2 increases in the rebreathed air after each breath. The human body does not react with the same alarm to excess nitrogen – if it did, humans would be in a constant state of panic since earth's air is mostly nitrogen.
As the ReBreather is used, the user's oxygen level (oxygen saturation or "O2 sat") continues to fall while nitrogen remains, and the user becomes hypoxic. Reports describing how human bodies react during hypoxia vary and can be researched if so desired, but this topic is beyond the scope of this guide.
Before discussing parts and construction of the ReBreather, Sections 1.2 through 2.6 provide some technical background about various topics so builders can better understand the ReBreather's design and function.
1.2 Tidal Volume
The normal resting tidal volume TV (air volume breathed in/out during a single breath) for healthy adult humans is +/- 500 milliliters (ml) and normal respiratory frequency RF (or respiratory rate) is +/- 12 breaths per minute. Depending on health and other factors, TV may range from 300 ml to 800 ml and RF may also be higher or lower. The ReBreather described in this guide is designed based on a 600 ml TV and 12 RF. Warning: ReBreather builders cannot measure their own TV or RF accurately because breathing immediately changes once a Builder pays attention to it. A ReBreather builder's breathing estimates can easily be 2-3 times different than his/her real numbers at rest. This is a common mistake so it's best not to overanalyze breathing characteristics or worry if either TV or RF differ from the ReBreather design values because the ReBreather design has enough capacity and flexibility to work for all users.
1.3 Earth's Air and CO2
Nitrogen makes up the majority (+/- 78 percent) of the air humans' breath even though the human body does not use the gas. The second most abundant gas is oxygen (+/- 21 percent in air during inhale and +/- 16 percent during exhale). Third is argon at +/- 1 percent followed by carbon dioxide (+/- 0.04 percent in air during inhale and +/- 4 percent during exhale). Humans also exhale water vapor, a byproduct of cellular respiration, at a rate that varies depending on each person's particular physiology, health, and other factors.
So how much CO2 do humans exhale with each breath? Again, although each human's TV varies, this is actually an easy one! As previously mentioned, exhaled air contains roughly 4 percent CO2, while inhaled air contains roughly 0.04 percent. Assuming a tidal volume of 600 ml and 4 percent CO2 exhale value gives (600 ml) * (0.04) = 24 ml of CO2 per exhaled breath.
2.1 Soda Lime CO2 Absorption and Quantity
Based on soda lime manufacturer data and assuming a properly filled and well-designed canister used to hold it, 100 grams (g) of soda lime can absorb approximately 15 L (15,000 ml) of CO2 before the concentration of CO2 in the air passing through it will exceed 1 percent. In medical settings the allowable amount is often 0.5 percent, and this is often named "clinical breakthrough" or "breakpoint". From Section 1.3, if each exhaled breath contains 24 ml of CO2 and 100 g can absorb 15,000 ml then 15,000/24 = 625 breaths. Assuming 12 breaths per minute from Section 1.2 means 100 grams of soda lime could last 625/12 = 52 minutes. All of this assumes no significant "wall effect" or "channeling" occurs in the soda lime canister, which will be discussed in Section 2.5.
For reference, in anesthesia machines and for an 8-hour capacity, many soda lime canisters hold approximately 1 kg. (2.2 pounds) and the average and maximum amount of CO2 produced by an adult under anesthesia is 12 L to 18 L per hour.
Obviously, the ReBreather user doesn't need 8 hours of CO2 absorption capacity, BUT there are other considerations that determine the amount of soda lime needed and 100 g is NOT enough. The first consideration is called "residence time" (time of contact between CO2 in the User's breaths and the soda lime), which manufacturers state needs to be at least one (1) second. To ensure sufficient residence time, manufacturers recommend that the void space (space between soda lime granules in the canister) equal or exceed the users estimated TV (600 ml design target) to ensure CO2 has sufficient time in contact with the soda lime for maximum absorption efficiency. Although variable depending on physical characteristics of the brand of soda lime purchased, the void space of fresh soda lime is approximately 50 percent of a filled canister's volume, which means a ReBreather needs at least 600 ml / 0.5 = 1,200 ml of soda lime.
Two other factors also affect the amount of soda lime needed. As the exhaled air passes through the soda lime: 1) part of the soda lime converts to carbonate, and 2) moisture begins to fill the void space and granule pores, which reduces efficiency. The result is that the effective canister void space is reduced at the rate of +/- 60 ml an hour per 1,000 ml of soda lime. To compensate for known factors, the ReBreather canister design holds approximately 1,400 ml of soda lime to ensure the user's TV does not exceed the soda lime canister's available void space during use.
The soda lime canister of the ReBreather described in this guide is 12 inches long and made of 3-inch PVC pipe. Because 3-inch PVC pipe has a net internal diameter of 3 inches, the volume of the 12-inch cylinder is 1,390 ml, which essentially satisfies the 1,400 ml design goal. Based on an average soda lime density of 0.9 g/ml and 1,400 ml desired volume, ReBreather builders will need to purchase approximately: (0.9) * (1,400) = 1,260 g or 2.8 pounds of soda lime. The author of this guide purchased a 3-pound bag.
2.2 Soda Lime Handling Safety
Soda lime dust can cause irritation to the respiratory system; therefore, a viral-bacterial filter is incorporated into the ReBreather design to prevent dust-induced laryngospasm, bronchospasm, or later pneumonia if the user changes his/her mind. There's no sense in being worse off after an attempt and so this design feature was incorporated.
Direct skin contact with soda lime can cause irritation and if this happens builders will need thoroughly wash the affected area with large amounts of water.
Eye contact with soda lime can cause severe irritation and if this happens builders will need to flush their eyes immediately with water for 15 or more minutes.
If soda lime is swallowed it can cause burns of the mucous membranes of the mouth, throat, esophagus, and stomach. If this happens, do not induce vomiting, but instead administer large quantities of water or milk.
The point of this Section is that ReBreather builders need to keep their soda lime away from children or inquisitive people and wear gloves, eye protection, and a basic dust mask when handling it to fill the ReBreather's soda lime canisters. DON'T worry unnecessarily though. Soda lime isn't nuclear waste to be feared, it's only a semi-caustic irritant.
2.3 Soda Lime Storage
Soda lime should be stored in a clean, dry environment and avoid allowing it to come in contact with other chemicals, acid, or water.
Sealed packages of soda lime are usually well protected against loss of granule moisture (moisture is necessary for proper functioning and incorporated into the granules by manufacturers) and usually have a shelf life of two to three years from the date of manufacture; however once opened, packages of soda lime are vulnerable to moisture loss, unless they are promptly and carefully resealed.
The moisture in soda lime will also expand when frozen and result in some granule fragmentation and excessive dust; therefore, packages which have been subjected to repeated freeze/thaw cycles should be examined closely for dust and discarded if questionable.
Regardless of which soda lime is chosen, make sure it is sealed and clearly labelled with an expiration date. The author of this guide purchased soda lime in 2020 and it expires in 2023.
2.4 The Wall Effect and Channeling
In accordance with basic hydraulic principles, airflow through the ReBreather's soda lime canister (User's breaths) will want to pass through pathways of least resistance. Pathways of least resistance within the canisters form as a result of the wall effect and channeling, which will most likely occur in excess if the soda lime canisters are hastily or unevenly packed. The result of too much wall effect and/or channeling is that a significant portion of airflow through the ReBreather's soda lime canister will bypass the soda lime leaving much of its CO2 unabsorbed.
The wall effect is the travel of airflow along the inside periphery of the canister. Builder's will always have some wall effect because soda lime granules on the outer layer are in contact with the smooth canister wall, and the open space between these pellets and the wall is greater than elsewhere within the canister because no protuberances from other pellets are available to fill or partly fill the hollows. Hence, the flow resistance along the inside wall of the canister is less and the airflow preferentially travels along this path.
Channeling is another pattern of non-homogeneous air flow and occurs when the soda lime is unevenly packed into the canister, which leaves pockets between the granules for air to more easily pass through. One of the reasons manufacturers recommend soda lime canister length-to-diameter ratios of at least 1.5 to 1 is that it creates a broader band of soda lime through which the airflow must pass, which helps reduce channeling.
If the ReBreather does not appear to be working because the user can feel the body's CO2 alarm response and/or feels no difference as he/she starts to use it then either a system leak or excess wall effect and/or channeling is suspected and the canister should be inspected to ensure proper soda lime packing or refilled with fresh soda lime. Proper filling of the soda lime canister is explained in Section 2.6 of this guide.
2.5 Dead Space
Before proceeding with construction details, the topic of dead space is VERY important to review first. Dead space is the total free/open space within the ReBreather through which the user's breaths pass and/or are contained during use. If breaths remain stagnate because of excess dead space, the ReBreather simply will not work. This is because each inhale/exhale breathing cycle only fills dead space and does not pass back and forth through the soda lime. Breathing tubing length(s), the mask, filters, and soda lime canister voids all contribute to the total amount of dead space and MUST be minimized. Dead space adds up quickly – if a ReBreather design uses 36 inches of standard 22mm breathing tubing then almost 350 ml of a user's +/- 500 ml TV didn't go anywhere except into the tubing. For 48 inches of breathing tubing the volume is +/- 470 ml or almost the total TV! The total estimated ReBreather dead space increases further once the mask and filter material dead spaces are added. If there's too much dead space then breaths will hardly ever (or never) reach the soda lime, which means the user's doing nothing more than breathing back and forth into plastic parts with very little desired reduction in CO2.
The single breathing tube used for the ReBreather design in this guide is both short and expandable to minimize dead space. All other components were also selected based on minimizing dead space, low cost, general availability, and ease of assembly.
2.6 Filling the ReBreather Soda Lime Canister
Efficient removal of CO2 is largely dependent upon the proper packing of soda lime in the canister. The ReBreather design uses a cylindrical canister because, as previously mentioned, studies have shown that if the shape of the canister is complex then uniform distribution of airflow through the soda lime can be difficult to achieve. The ReBreather design also includes a small void space at the top of the canister, which is recommended to aid in distribution of airflow over the top of the soda lime. The canister should be filled with +/- 1 inch of soda lime at a time and then gently shaken to settle the granules and ensure none of them are clumped together. Don't shake the granules to death – it's not a martini. Repeatedly fill the canister in this fashion until filled to within 1/4 inch of the cylinder's top edge. Don't attempt to mechanically press/smash the soda lime granules into the canister, this will damage the soda lime and create more soda lime dust.
The ReBreather design and parts were selected to provide the least possible resistance to air flow. Most airflow resistance is due to the mask, tubing, and fittings selected by the ReBreather builder and the soda lime canister accounts for only +/- 30 percent of all resistance. According to available literature, manufacturers have made numerous attempts over the years to reduce air flow resistance through their soda lime canisters by trying various canister shapes, but ultimately abandoned these attempts in favor of simple cylinder-shaped canisters.
Builders can construct a single- or double-cylinder ReBreather. There's really no right answer and both versions will work. Some builders may prefer two smaller cylinders versus one larger cylinder based on how he/she plans to store, hide, transport, or position the ReBreather during use.
This guide focuses on constructing the single-cylinder version, which was more efficient during testing – likely due to reduced "dead space" and increased depth/quantity of soda lime through which the breaths passed.
BUILD SECTIONS WITH PHOTOS WILL FOLLOW SOON
1.0 The TrailerTrash ReBreather
Readers of this guide may certainly feel free to criticize the components and methods selected for the ReBreather design and construction, but the goal was to provide a simple way for ReBreather builders with basic "hobby" skills to construct a ReBreather without having to find too many special parts and/or fittings, unless and only when such items were absolutely necessary. Anyone building a ReBreather can always purchase more esthetically pleasing components and the design can be implemented in alternate ways depending on what materials are available.
1.1 What Is A ReBreather
A ReBreather is a breathing apparatus containing the granular substance called "soda lime", which absorbs carbon dioxide CO2 in the user's exhaled breaths and permits rebreathing (recycling) of breaths without feeling the physiological panic that occurs when CO2 increases in the rebreathed air after each breath. The human body does not react with the same alarm to excess nitrogen – if it did, humans would be in a constant state of panic since earth's air is mostly nitrogen.
As the ReBreather is used, the user's oxygen level (oxygen saturation or "O2 sat") continues to fall while nitrogen remains, and the user becomes hypoxic. Reports describing how human bodies react during hypoxia vary and can be researched if so desired, but this topic is beyond the scope of this guide.
Before discussing parts and construction of the ReBreather, Sections 1.2 through 2.6 provide some technical background about various topics so builders can better understand the ReBreather's design and function.
1.2 Tidal Volume
The normal resting tidal volume TV (air volume breathed in/out during a single breath) for healthy adult humans is +/- 500 milliliters (ml) and normal respiratory frequency RF (or respiratory rate) is +/- 12 breaths per minute. Depending on health and other factors, TV may range from 300 ml to 800 ml and RF may also be higher or lower. The ReBreather described in this guide is designed based on a 600 ml TV and 12 RF. Warning: ReBreather builders cannot measure their own TV or RF accurately because breathing immediately changes once a Builder pays attention to it. A ReBreather builder's breathing estimates can easily be 2-3 times different than his/her real numbers at rest. This is a common mistake so it's best not to overanalyze breathing characteristics or worry if either TV or RF differ from the ReBreather design values because the ReBreather design has enough capacity and flexibility to work for all users.
1.3 Earth's Air and CO2
Nitrogen makes up the majority (+/- 78 percent) of the air humans' breath even though the human body does not use the gas. The second most abundant gas is oxygen (+/- 21 percent in air during inhale and +/- 16 percent during exhale). Third is argon at +/- 1 percent followed by carbon dioxide (+/- 0.04 percent in air during inhale and +/- 4 percent during exhale). Humans also exhale water vapor, a byproduct of cellular respiration, at a rate that varies depending on each person's particular physiology, health, and other factors.
So how much CO2 do humans exhale with each breath? Again, although each human's TV varies, this is actually an easy one! As previously mentioned, exhaled air contains roughly 4 percent CO2, while inhaled air contains roughly 0.04 percent. Assuming a tidal volume of 600 ml and 4 percent CO2 exhale value gives (600 ml) * (0.04) = 24 ml of CO2 per exhaled breath.
2.0 Soda Lime
Soda lime has several applications for CO2 absorption – such as diving and anesthesia – and has been used successfully for decades. Some brand name examples of soda lime CO2 absorbent produced in granular form include: Atrasorb Dive, Amsorb, Sofnolime, Dragersorb, SodaSthesia, and Sodasorb, but many other brand names can be found. Some references do not recommend Amsorb based on studies indicating it has lower CO2 absorption performance. Soda lime granules are manufactured in various shapes and sizes, but several references indicate the optimal size for ReBreather/anesthesia use is 2.5 mm or between 4 and 8 mesh. Search the internet regarding soda lime to learn more about soda lime mesh sizing. The author of this guide purchased SodaSthesia from a reputable seller, but soda lime can be purchased online from many sellers.2.1 Soda Lime CO2 Absorption and Quantity
Based on soda lime manufacturer data and assuming a properly filled and well-designed canister used to hold it, 100 grams (g) of soda lime can absorb approximately 15 L (15,000 ml) of CO2 before the concentration of CO2 in the air passing through it will exceed 1 percent. In medical settings the allowable amount is often 0.5 percent, and this is often named "clinical breakthrough" or "breakpoint". From Section 1.3, if each exhaled breath contains 24 ml of CO2 and 100 g can absorb 15,000 ml then 15,000/24 = 625 breaths. Assuming 12 breaths per minute from Section 1.2 means 100 grams of soda lime could last 625/12 = 52 minutes. All of this assumes no significant "wall effect" or "channeling" occurs in the soda lime canister, which will be discussed in Section 2.5.
For reference, in anesthesia machines and for an 8-hour capacity, many soda lime canisters hold approximately 1 kg. (2.2 pounds) and the average and maximum amount of CO2 produced by an adult under anesthesia is 12 L to 18 L per hour.
Obviously, the ReBreather user doesn't need 8 hours of CO2 absorption capacity, BUT there are other considerations that determine the amount of soda lime needed and 100 g is NOT enough. The first consideration is called "residence time" (time of contact between CO2 in the User's breaths and the soda lime), which manufacturers state needs to be at least one (1) second. To ensure sufficient residence time, manufacturers recommend that the void space (space between soda lime granules in the canister) equal or exceed the users estimated TV (600 ml design target) to ensure CO2 has sufficient time in contact with the soda lime for maximum absorption efficiency. Although variable depending on physical characteristics of the brand of soda lime purchased, the void space of fresh soda lime is approximately 50 percent of a filled canister's volume, which means a ReBreather needs at least 600 ml / 0.5 = 1,200 ml of soda lime.
Two other factors also affect the amount of soda lime needed. As the exhaled air passes through the soda lime: 1) part of the soda lime converts to carbonate, and 2) moisture begins to fill the void space and granule pores, which reduces efficiency. The result is that the effective canister void space is reduced at the rate of +/- 60 ml an hour per 1,000 ml of soda lime. To compensate for known factors, the ReBreather canister design holds approximately 1,400 ml of soda lime to ensure the user's TV does not exceed the soda lime canister's available void space during use.
The soda lime canister of the ReBreather described in this guide is 12 inches long and made of 3-inch PVC pipe. Because 3-inch PVC pipe has a net internal diameter of 3 inches, the volume of the 12-inch cylinder is 1,390 ml, which essentially satisfies the 1,400 ml design goal. Based on an average soda lime density of 0.9 g/ml and 1,400 ml desired volume, ReBreather builders will need to purchase approximately: (0.9) * (1,400) = 1,260 g or 2.8 pounds of soda lime. The author of this guide purchased a 3-pound bag.
2.2 Soda Lime Handling Safety
Soda lime dust can cause irritation to the respiratory system; therefore, a viral-bacterial filter is incorporated into the ReBreather design to prevent dust-induced laryngospasm, bronchospasm, or later pneumonia if the user changes his/her mind. There's no sense in being worse off after an attempt and so this design feature was incorporated.
Direct skin contact with soda lime can cause irritation and if this happens builders will need thoroughly wash the affected area with large amounts of water.
Eye contact with soda lime can cause severe irritation and if this happens builders will need to flush their eyes immediately with water for 15 or more minutes.
If soda lime is swallowed it can cause burns of the mucous membranes of the mouth, throat, esophagus, and stomach. If this happens, do not induce vomiting, but instead administer large quantities of water or milk.
The point of this Section is that ReBreather builders need to keep their soda lime away from children or inquisitive people and wear gloves, eye protection, and a basic dust mask when handling it to fill the ReBreather's soda lime canisters. DON'T worry unnecessarily though. Soda lime isn't nuclear waste to be feared, it's only a semi-caustic irritant.
2.3 Soda Lime Storage
Soda lime should be stored in a clean, dry environment and avoid allowing it to come in contact with other chemicals, acid, or water.
Sealed packages of soda lime are usually well protected against loss of granule moisture (moisture is necessary for proper functioning and incorporated into the granules by manufacturers) and usually have a shelf life of two to three years from the date of manufacture; however once opened, packages of soda lime are vulnerable to moisture loss, unless they are promptly and carefully resealed.
The moisture in soda lime will also expand when frozen and result in some granule fragmentation and excessive dust; therefore, packages which have been subjected to repeated freeze/thaw cycles should be examined closely for dust and discarded if questionable.
Regardless of which soda lime is chosen, make sure it is sealed and clearly labelled with an expiration date. The author of this guide purchased soda lime in 2020 and it expires in 2023.
2.4 The Wall Effect and Channeling
In accordance with basic hydraulic principles, airflow through the ReBreather's soda lime canister (User's breaths) will want to pass through pathways of least resistance. Pathways of least resistance within the canisters form as a result of the wall effect and channeling, which will most likely occur in excess if the soda lime canisters are hastily or unevenly packed. The result of too much wall effect and/or channeling is that a significant portion of airflow through the ReBreather's soda lime canister will bypass the soda lime leaving much of its CO2 unabsorbed.
The wall effect is the travel of airflow along the inside periphery of the canister. Builder's will always have some wall effect because soda lime granules on the outer layer are in contact with the smooth canister wall, and the open space between these pellets and the wall is greater than elsewhere within the canister because no protuberances from other pellets are available to fill or partly fill the hollows. Hence, the flow resistance along the inside wall of the canister is less and the airflow preferentially travels along this path.
Channeling is another pattern of non-homogeneous air flow and occurs when the soda lime is unevenly packed into the canister, which leaves pockets between the granules for air to more easily pass through. One of the reasons manufacturers recommend soda lime canister length-to-diameter ratios of at least 1.5 to 1 is that it creates a broader band of soda lime through which the airflow must pass, which helps reduce channeling.
If the ReBreather does not appear to be working because the user can feel the body's CO2 alarm response and/or feels no difference as he/she starts to use it then either a system leak or excess wall effect and/or channeling is suspected and the canister should be inspected to ensure proper soda lime packing or refilled with fresh soda lime. Proper filling of the soda lime canister is explained in Section 2.6 of this guide.
2.5 Dead Space
Before proceeding with construction details, the topic of dead space is VERY important to review first. Dead space is the total free/open space within the ReBreather through which the user's breaths pass and/or are contained during use. If breaths remain stagnate because of excess dead space, the ReBreather simply will not work. This is because each inhale/exhale breathing cycle only fills dead space and does not pass back and forth through the soda lime. Breathing tubing length(s), the mask, filters, and soda lime canister voids all contribute to the total amount of dead space and MUST be minimized. Dead space adds up quickly – if a ReBreather design uses 36 inches of standard 22mm breathing tubing then almost 350 ml of a user's +/- 500 ml TV didn't go anywhere except into the tubing. For 48 inches of breathing tubing the volume is +/- 470 ml or almost the total TV! The total estimated ReBreather dead space increases further once the mask and filter material dead spaces are added. If there's too much dead space then breaths will hardly ever (or never) reach the soda lime, which means the user's doing nothing more than breathing back and forth into plastic parts with very little desired reduction in CO2.
The single breathing tube used for the ReBreather design in this guide is both short and expandable to minimize dead space. All other components were also selected based on minimizing dead space, low cost, general availability, and ease of assembly.
2.6 Filling the ReBreather Soda Lime Canister
Efficient removal of CO2 is largely dependent upon the proper packing of soda lime in the canister. The ReBreather design uses a cylindrical canister because, as previously mentioned, studies have shown that if the shape of the canister is complex then uniform distribution of airflow through the soda lime can be difficult to achieve. The ReBreather design also includes a small void space at the top of the canister, which is recommended to aid in distribution of airflow over the top of the soda lime. The canister should be filled with +/- 1 inch of soda lime at a time and then gently shaken to settle the granules and ensure none of them are clumped together. Don't shake the granules to death – it's not a martini. Repeatedly fill the canister in this fashion until filled to within 1/4 inch of the cylinder's top edge. Don't attempt to mechanically press/smash the soda lime granules into the canister, this will damage the soda lime and create more soda lime dust.
3.0 ReBreather Construction
The ReBreather described in this guide consists of a simple anesthesia mask (many mask choices are available for purchase online), standard 22 millimeter (mm) diameter tubing from an anesthesia "breathing circuit" purchased off eBay, home heating/cooling filter material and bacterial/viral air filter, soda lime, soda lime cylinder made of PVC pipe/fittings, and a latex-free artificial lung (a.k.a. breathing bag – either 750 or 1 L volume). The reason the breathing bag is latex free is that users may have an unknown latex allergy, which is unpleasant if the allergy is significant and could impede use of the ReBreather for the desired period of time.The ReBreather design and parts were selected to provide the least possible resistance to air flow. Most airflow resistance is due to the mask, tubing, and fittings selected by the ReBreather builder and the soda lime canister accounts for only +/- 30 percent of all resistance. According to available literature, manufacturers have made numerous attempts over the years to reduce air flow resistance through their soda lime canisters by trying various canister shapes, but ultimately abandoned these attempts in favor of simple cylinder-shaped canisters.
Builders can construct a single- or double-cylinder ReBreather. There's really no right answer and both versions will work. Some builders may prefer two smaller cylinders versus one larger cylinder based on how he/she plans to store, hide, transport, or position the ReBreather during use.
This guide focuses on constructing the single-cylinder version, which was more efficient during testing – likely due to reduced "dead space" and increased depth/quantity of soda lime through which the breaths passed.
BUILD SECTIONS WITH PHOTOS WILL FOLLOW SOON
Last edited:
GoodPersonEffed
Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
- Jan 11, 2020
- 6,727
I look forward to that thread. I hope it's a separate one so that the focus is clear, as this thread is about the R2D product, which has a limited following as well as a different focus.
If that was your intention, please know I mean only to ensure clarity, no intention to be bossy, no assumptions made you weren't going to do that, and no disrespect toward you. I am indeed genuinely looking forward to reading what you will present and the ensuing conversation.
Edit: I see you edited your comment and did present your documentation here. I hope you'll create a new thread for the reasons I stated.
TrailerTrash
Just Passing Through
- Oct 10, 2019
- 240
Thinking new thread will occur for posting of entire guide when completed. Many people have PM's stating they were monitoring this thread at this time ... hence the post here. Feel free to repost this partial guide text in other locations if so desired. Thank you for the respectful response.
Hopefully the entire guide will be done in just a few more days.
GoodPersonEffed
Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
- Jan 11, 2020
- 6,727
Only respect intended. Glad you received it as such.
Also respectfully, I think it's derailing to this thread to post the discussion here. This thread is only about the R2D product. I hope you'll reconsider and start a separate thread with the focus of editing your guide, as Stan did when he worked on the draft of the SN guide.
TrailerTrash
Just Passing Through
- Oct 10, 2019
- 240
Yes, I am not going to post anything further regarding the guide on this thread. Any future posts will be made to the new thread.
GoodPersonEffed
Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
- Jan 11, 2020
- 6,727
Sorry, that wasn't clear. Are you going to make a new thread for input and editing, and follow up with a second new thread with the final version of the guide?
I'm confused. The video is on the website as is the contact for the seller. It's a very short website, in order to see the video you had to skip reading the paragraphs i posted
TrailerTrash
Just Passing Through
- Oct 10, 2019
- 240
I'm wondering the same thing. I'm only able to spend a little time on these threads due to health issues, so it would be good to have the name of these new threads posted here initially. It's all very promising.
With the R2D device there are 3 lengths of tubing .....
Does this mean the dead space will be too large ? Especially if a person is v small
Or do the one way valves have an effect ?
could this be a reason for failure
Does this mean the dead space will be too large ? Especially if a person is v small
Or do the one way valves have an effect ?
could this be a reason for failure
Meditation guide
Always was, is, and always shall be.
- Jun 22, 2020
- 6,089
Could someone explain how what is in those canisters remove carbon dioxide? And once that is done, we would then be sucking the remaining gas, mostly nitrogen, back through the same canisters? Is that how it works?
GoodPersonEffed
Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
- Jan 11, 2020
- 6,727
I suggest an online search of rebreathers (wiki has a good article), as well as for how soda lime works in anasthesia to stop CO retention. There's good information out there and it's easy to find. A debreather differs from a rebreather only in that there is no supplemental oxygen supply. The ReBreather can actuall be fitted with oxygen to make it a rebreather rather than a debreather, and if you read the product website it's explained that supplemental O2 is required but not offered for purchase from them. The product also has the same warning. Therefore, they're not technically selling a death device and calling it a debreather, even though they have videos that demonstrate how to use it to die.
Meditation guide
Always was, is, and always shall be.
- Jun 22, 2020
- 6,089
Thanks but I'm hoping someone actually answers my question here.
Would we be sucking up the remaining gas through the canisters? Or is our intake breath somehow routed through without going through the canisters?
Try googling high altitude training. That is essentially what this is.
Yomyom
Darker dearie, much darker
- Feb 5, 2020
- 923
Incorrigible77777
I was born human and I'm sorry for that. ——太宰 治
- Jul 9, 2020
- 229
TrailerTrash,
Do you know when the rest of the guide will be posted? Or maybe can post a quick DIY guide or parts list until you're finished.
Thanks
Do you know when the rest of the guide will be posted? Or maybe can post a quick DIY guide or parts list until you're finished.
Thanks
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