DeBreather purchase, too good to be true?

[mediocre]

So.. @mediocre . Did u change ur mind about using it? Is the outer bag in condition that you can reseal it?
if you are planning to use it.. will u let us know?

I did freak out a bit and put everything back in the box. I will have to either reseal the bag or wait to buy new soda canisters. Or I may use it within 3 days.

I'll definitely post here first before I do it.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I did freak out a bit and put everything back in the box. I will have to either reseal the bag or wait to buy new soda canisters. Or I may use it within 3 days.

I'll definitely post here first before I do it.

You won't have to buy new canisters, just new soda lime to refill them with.

 

[Notabadguy]

If you don't use, just reseal it again with an iron.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Be sure to place fabric over the plastic or it will just melt to the iron and the surface you're ironing it on.

 

[mediocre]

Is there somewhere that r2d explained how to reseal the bag?

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Is there somewhere that r2d explained how to reseal the bag?

No.

Edit: Not that I'm aware of.

 

[NextBusLeaving]

The empty bag attached to the device is a counterlung. It must be there to absorb the ebb and flow of the user breathing as tidal volume fluctuates and also to give you an initial air supply so you dont have to breathe in deeply then immediately exhale. This is why it is blocked with foam, to allow it an initial inflation level.

 

[Thatdude]

How do you convert something like this to work with this Amazon product ASIN B01476QW8G
I don't own one, but at this point I would pay a bit to just end my life peacefully. What bugs me about this however is it's about the cost of a gun and this is just one part of the setup. And IDK if this will work

NOTE I don't know much of anything when it comes to scuba gear

 

[NextBusLeaving]

Idk anything about scuba gear but i built a virtual replica of the R2D device for around $120.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

How do you convert something like this to work with this

I don't own one, but at this point I would pay a bit to just end my life peacefully. What bugs me about this however is it's about the cost of a gun and this is just one part of the setup. And IDK if this will work

NOTE I don't know much of anything when it comes to scuba gear

Since this thread is about the ReBreather product by R2D and Respiro, I think your question would be better addressed in a different thread, or perhaps creating a new one. There are a few members who seem to have had some skill and expertise in building debreathers, maybe use the site search with that term?

Edit: I think I may have misread. Are you saying you want to use this mask with the ReBreather product?

 

[Living sucks]

Idk anything about scuba gear but i built a virtual replica of the R2D device for around $120.

Forgive me if I'm incorrect but didn't you already have a mask available to use? For someone building their own they need to purchase a mask

 

[Thatdude]

Edit: I think I may have misread. Are you saying you want to use this mask with the ReBreather product?

Both. I'm getting tired of waiting for them to go back on the market, but if I get my hands on one. Then I need to make sure it works.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Both. I'm getting tired of waiting for them to go back on the market, but if I get my hands on one. Then I need to make sure it works.

Hence the title of the thread: Too good to be true? Not being a smartass or trying to negate you. Just recognizing that we're all pretty much in the same boat. It's going to require a lot of patience to wait for those who will actually report to this forum or to EI, or it will require the balls to risk trying it untested, or giving up on it and finding a different method.

Personally, I've had one in my possession for a couple of weeks, but that's only one small step. I bought it out of desire for a peaceful method, I happened to order at just the right moment in this shit show of a release, and I did so knowing I may have been throwing my money away; I got it just to have the option, and it's certainly a desirable option on the face of it, but now what?

Like many of us, I'm frustrated with the packaging, and I already knew that when I ordered. I have to commit to taking the risk if I open it -- either move forward quickly to attempt, or abandon it. Soda lime is not available for online ordering in my country. I can't spend much time testing and getting comfortable with the mask since it's sealed in with the whole unit, and I'm not confident about resealing it with an iron. So the pressure is on that I need to work up in advance the nerve, not only to try it, but to follow through with a less desirable backup method if it fails. That's a lot of emotional gearing up and mental preparation!

As far as waiting for others to report on it...I keep stepping back and consider it from my personal perspective. My first concern is me, not others. If I commit to reporting about it, that means doing a goodbye thread, and taking the time to report if it fails, assuming I'm even capable of doing so. My ctb is about me, not everyone else. I'm not motivated to be a hero about this. So as much as I want others to nut up and try it for my benefit, I certainly can't expect it, nor bitch that no one has. (Not saying that anyone has such expectations or is bitching, nor negating them as if knocking down a straw man. Just stating that I'm aware of my natural, human, selfish desire, and of the concurrent reality that no one exists to serve my benefit any more than I exist to serve others' -- that's the personal perspective I keep stepping back to.) Also, if I were to have another member report about the attempt on my behalf, there's no one I trust enough to do so, and I personally would be skeptical if I read any second-hand reports (or first-hand for that matter, but even more skeptical of second-hand).

Right now my perspective is that, at this point in time, the onus is on the individual to decide for themselves whether to take the risk and try it. It's a very personal decision, and it's wise to weigh out all of the pros and cons for oneself, as with any method, though most have documentation available to be able to make a more informed decision in favor of attempting other methods. There's so much sketchiness surrounding this product, with no evidence save one member's potentially dubious report that his unit was a dud, that imo it's natural and wise to have a healthy fear of it. Who tf wants to be a guinea pig and risk severe brain damage? That doesn't just take balls, imo that may perhaps take a near disability if one has such a deficit of healthy self-preservation.

Anyhow, this was more of a vent than anything, in conversation with the whole thread, not a rant directed at who I quoted. Like committing to and attempting to ctb isn't frustrating enough, we've got this dangling carrot that is luring us with the seduction of a peaceful and quick exit (it could even be euphoric ffs), but what cost might the seduction exact from those who dare to grab the carrot?

 

[NextBusLeaving]

Nope, I used a $9 off the shelf medical mask i bought on Amazon.

 

[Notabadguy]

Hence the title of the thread: Too good to be true? Not being a smartass or trying to negate you. Just recognizing that we're all pretty much in the same boat. It's going to require a lot of patience to wait for those who will actually report to this forum or to EI, or it will require the balls to risk trying it untested, or giving up on it and finding a different method.

Personally, I've had one in my possession for a couple of weeks, but that's only one small step. I bought it out of desire for a peaceful method, I happened to order at just the right moment in this shit show of a release, and I did so knowing I may have been throwing my money away; I got it just to have the option, and it's certainly a desirable option on the face of it, but now what?

Like many of us, I'm frustrated with the packaging, and I already knew that when I ordered. I have to commit to taking the risk if I open it -- either move forward quickly to attempt, or abandon it. Soda lime is not available for online ordering in my country. I can't spend much time testing and getting comfortable with the mask since it's sealed in with the whole unit, and I'm not confident about resealing it with an iron. So the pressure is on that I need to work up in advance the nerve, not only to try it, but to follow through with a less desirable backup method if it fails. That's a lot of emotional gearing up and mental preparation!

As far as waiting for others to report on it...I keep stepping back and consider it from my personal perspective. My first concern is me, not others. If I commit to reporting about it, that means doing a goodbye thread, and taking the time to report if it fails, assuming I'm even capable of doing so. My ctb is about me, not everyone else. I'm not motivated to be a hero about this. So as much as I want others to nut up and try it for my benefit, I certainly can't expect it, nor bitch that no one has. (Not saying that anyone has such expectations or is bitching, nor negating them as if knocking down a straw man. Just stating that I'm aware of my natural, human, selfish desire, and of the concurrent reality that no one exists to serve my benefit any more than I exist to serve others' -- that's the personal perspective I keep stepping back to.) Also, if I were to have another member report about the attempt on my behalf, there's no one I trust enough to do so, and I personally would be skeptical if I read any second-hand reports (or first-hand for that matter, but even more skeptical of second-hand).

Right now my perspective is that, at this point in time, the onus is on the individual to decide for themselves whether to take the risk and try it. It's a very personal decision, and it's wise to weigh out all of the pros and cons for oneself, as with any method, though most have documentation available to be able to make a more informed decision in favor of attempting other methods. There's so much sketchiness surrounding this product, with no evidence save one member's potentially dubious report that his unit was a dud, that imo it's natural and wise to have a healthy fear of it. Who tf wants to be a guinea pig and risk severe brain damage? That doesn't just take balls, imo that may perhaps take a near disability if one has such a deficit of healthy self-preservation.

Anyhow, this was more of a vent than anything, in conversation with the whole thread, not a rant directed at who I quoted. Like committing to and attempting to ctb isn't frustrating enough, we've got this dangling carrot that is luring us with the seduction of a peaceful and quick exit (it could even be euphoric ffs), but what cost might the seduction exact from those who dare to grab the carrot?

It's indeed the key question, what happens if there is a leak once you're unconsciouss? Do you respire again? If you respire again, you might end up with brain damage.

 

[NextBusLeaving]

When i tested mine, which was a virtual copy of the R2D design, I did it sitting up and just holding the mask with my hand because I was unsure what would happen and I didnt want to suddenly pass out and die just testing it.

With this rather uncomfortable position maintained, I managed with a few small corrections to the mask position to reduce my pulse oximeter reading from 98-99% to 82% in a matter of minutes.

Anything in the 70s is technically hypoxia and clearly the experiment worked. Had I just drank some alcohol and laid down on the couch and relaxed I have no doubt I wouldnt be responding to you right now.

 

[Notabadguy]

Nope, I used a $9 off the shelf medical mask i bought on Amazon.

And such a cheap mask is better than the one provided by R2D? It doesn't seem so.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

It's indeed the key question, what happens if there is a leak once you're unconsciouss? Do you respire again? If you respire again, you might end up with brain damage.

See Richard's response to @idonk that's been shared a couple of times in this thread. I re-shared it in the past week and directly commented on this particular concern. Hope it helps.

______________

Hey, @NextBusLeaving, it would be helpful if you could hit reply or quote so it's more obvious what your comments follow or refer to. You don't have to, of course, but it's not always obvious what they follow, especially if someone posts a new comment while you're still writing, or someone could be ignoring the member you're quoting and not be able to see that there's continuity. Do as you wish, of course, not trying to be controlling, only making a request that you're perfectly within your right to dismiss with no need for defense or explanation.

 

[Notabadguy]

When i tested mine, which was a virtual copy of the R2D design, I did it sitting up and just holding the mask with my hand because I was unsure what would happen and I didnt want to suddenly pass out and die just testing it.

With this rather uncomfortable position maintained, I managed with a few small corrections to the mask position to reduce my pulse oximeter reading from 98-99% to 82% in a matter of minutes.

Anything in the 70s is technically hypoxia and clearly the experiment worked. Had I just drank some alcohol and laid down on the couch and relaxed I have no doubt I wouldnt be responding to you right now.

But what woul happen if there would have been a leak once you were unconsciouss?

See Richard's response to @idonk that's been shared a couple of times in this thread. I re-shared it in the past week and directly commented on this particular concern. Hope it helps.

I read it, but I don't think he's clear enough regarding my concern.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

But what woul happen if there would have been a leak once you were unconsciouss?

I read it, but I don't think he's clear enough regarding my concern.

From the way he stated it, which makes sense though I don't know if it's true...

Leak while still breathing --> will be able to re-oxygenate and recover

If respiration stops...death is already in progress...leak makes no difference as respiration has been arrested...death is imminent within minutes unless rescued...brain damage has already occurred and brain death is in progress.

Does this address the concern? If not, what is the specific concern?

 

[Notabadguy]

Yes, if that's true the Debreather is my method. It makes sense, how can we know if that,s true? Is it really impossible to return to breath by yourself once the breathing has been arrested?

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Yes, if that's true the Debreather is my method. It makes sense, how can we know if that,s true? Is it really impossible to return to breath by yourself once the breathing has been arrested?

No. Once respiratory arrest has occurred, it would take external resuscitative efforts, and there is already brain damage. If one has only lost consciousness and their breathing has slowed but not arrested, then they will start taking in oxygen again.

But perhaps there is something in between. If there is a leak but not enough oxygen gets in, then perhaps the brain will be starved of oxygen, in which case, what would happen next? I am not a doctor, but would it not be something like brain damage, which would more slowly but still lead to respiratory arrest, once the part of the brain that controls the autonomic action is damaged?

 

[Notabadguy]

No. Once respiratory arrest has occurred, it would take external resuscitative efforts, and there is already brain damage. If one has only lost consciousness and their breathing has slowed but not arrested, then they will start taking in oxygen again.

But perhaps there is something in between. If there is a leak but not enough oxygen gets in, then perhaps the brain will be starved of oxygen, in which case, what would happen next? I am not a doctor, but would it not be something like brain damage, which would more slowly but still lead to respiratory arrest, once the part of the brain that controls the autonomic action is damaged?

Yes, that between is a concern, if that between even exists. I'm no doctor either.

 

[enjolras]

But perhaps there is something in between. If there is a leak but not enough oxygen gets in, then perhaps the brain will be starved of oxygen, in which case, what would happen next? I am not a doctor, but would it not be something like brain damage, which would more slowly still lead to respiratory arrest once the part of the brain that controls the autonomic action is damaged?

Getting Out of Thin Air - Scienceline

Study alerts Everest climbers to pay attention to early warning signs of cerebral edema.

scienceline.org

Brain Post: Mountain Climbing Kills Brain Cells - SnowBrains

A paper by Douglas Fields called "Into Thin Air: Mountain Climbing Kills Brain Cells" was published in 2008. If you climb mountains you need to read it.

snowbrains.com

(Many more)

The injury danger appears to be real. But it's also tempting to imagine that there is? definitely a point of no return expanding to other vital signs. Avoiding rescue (extended time) remains the numero uno concern.

 

[NextBusLeaving]

And such a cheap mask is better than the one provided by R2D? It doesn't seem so.

Its essentially the same mask. Inflatable for seal, etc. The R2D mask is merely an anaesthesia mask. Mine is a CPR mask. Both designed for a tight seal and no extra valves like a CPAP mask has.

But what woul happen if there would have been a leak once you were unconsciouss?

I read it, but I don't think he's clear enough regarding my concern.

If there is a leak while unconscious you should simply recover consciousness as you would if someone was choking you and stopped or if you failed at partial.

There is a point, analog not digital, where you die but even with some recovery of air it will happen. Your body is not made to function with less than optimal oxygen for very long.

But what woul happen if there would have been a leak once you were unconsciouss?

Same as an exit bag or CO. Id either have woken up or, if breathing had already stopped, I'd have died.

See Richard's response to @idonk that's been shared a couple of times in this thread. I re-shared it in the past week and directly commented on this particular concern. Hope it helps.

______________

Hey, @NextBusLeaving, it would be helpful if you could hit reply or quote so it's more obvious what your comments follow or refer to. You don't have to, of course, but it's not always obvious what they follow, especially if someone posts a new comment while you're still writing, or someone could be ignoring the member you're quoting and not be able to see that there's continuity. Do as you wish, of course, not trying to be controlling, only making a request that you're perfectly within your right to dismiss with no need for defense or explanation.

Sorry, didnt remember to hit Quote AND reply. I kept wondering why my posts werent quoting but i was using the reply window at the bottom of page instead of the link lol. Relearning the forum as I have been away.

One thing I will say, if you are doing this method as a DIY, don't overthink it. I see so many people trying to buy scuba masks etc. Look at what R2D has put out and realize it is cheaply made by whatever Chinese company gave them the best deal.

Also, Life is risk. Buy the ticket, take the ride. It is not meant for us to try to end it prematurely - so there are consequences with every method. Risk of serious injury or permanent damage exists with everything from a gun to a rope to an OD. This is actually quite forgiving compared to a face transplant or a life on dialysis because you blew out your kidneys with OTC meds.

 

[Notabadguy]

Its essentially the same mask. Inflatable for seal, etc. The R2D mask is merely an anaesthesia mask. Mine is a CPR mask. Both designed for a tight seal and no extra valves like a CPAP mask has.

If there is a leak while unconscious you should simply recover consciousness as you would if someone was choking you and stopped or if you failed at partial.

There is a point, analog not digital, where you die but even with some recovery of air it will happen. Your body is not made to function with less than optimal oxygen for very long.



Sorry, didnt remember to hit Quote AND reply. I kept wondering why my posts werent quoting but i was using the reply window at the bottom of page instead of the link lol. Relearning the forum as I have been away.

One thing I will say, if you are doing this method as a DIY, don't overthink it. I see so many people trying to buy scuba masks etc. Look at what R2D has put out and realize it is cheaply made by whatever Chinese company gave them the best deal.

Also, Life is risk. Buy the ticket, take the ride. It is not meant for us to try to end it prematurely - so there are consequences with every method. Risk of serious injury or permanent damage exists with everything from a gun to a rope to an OD. This is actually quite forgiving compared to a face transplant or a life on dialysis because you blew out your kidneys with OTC meds.

I don't agree. You shouldn't take any risk when you CTB. You should do it right, once obtained proper info. I don't think there is any risk whit the Rebreather if you are not rescued, but I don't know that for sure, because of that I keep asking about possible damage.

 

[NextBusLeaving]

I don't agree. You shouldn't take any risk when you CTB. You should do it right, once obtained proper info. I don't think there is any risk whit the Rebreather if you are not rescued, but I don't know that for sure, because of that I keep asking about possible damage.

I think I misstated. The act of attempting to end your life IS a risk. All efforts should be made to minimize risk; however, risk is inherent and there is no 100% foolproof guaranteed method as many on this forum can attest to.

If you are in this for 100%, you need to find a safer hobby, lol. Even contraception is only 100% accurate with abstinence.

 

[Notabadguy]

I think I misstated. The act of attempting to end your life IS a risk. All efforts should be made to minimize risk; however, risk is inherent and there is no 100% foolproof guaranteed method as many on this forum can attest to.

If you are in this for 100%, you need to find a safer hobby, lol. Even contraception is only 100% accurate with abstinence.

Crossing the road is also a risk, and still we cross them everyday, despite not being 100% safe. We should aim to those high percentages of success, like N or SN properly done. The question is if the Debreather is so safe. If the Debreather doesn't work, and the only consequence is that you just don't die, that wouldn't be a problem.

 

[NextBusLeaving]

Crossing the road is also a risk, and still we cross them everyday, despite not being 100% safe. We should aim to those high percentages of success, like N or SN properly done. The question is if the Debreather is so safe. If the Debreather doesn't work, and the only consequence is that you just don't die, that wouldn't be a problem.

Here we must rely on the accuracy of the designers. At least for now. Its a completely new method and until there are more verifiable independent tests, it comes down to: do you trust Nitschke and R2D or not?

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Here we must rely on the accuracy of the designers. At least for now. Its a completely new method and until there are more verifiable independent tests, it comes down to: do you trust Nitschke and R2D or not?

Not! For me, that's one of the biggest deterrents. It didn't keep me from making the investment of money, but I'm not confident in making the investment of my own body. The concept seems solid, but there is not yet any proof of its execution, and I've made plenty of criticisms that Richard's and PN's actions inspire my distrust and discomfort.

Again, I refer back to the title of the thread: Too good to be true? It's been valuable to me to have this space to explore that question. I want the potential peace, ease and quickness of the method so much that it's challenging for me to not override the red flags and just take the risk. If I end up in supported care with a loss of a significant portion of my intellect and physical capacity, loss of my independence and autonomy, not able to ctb and perhaps not capable of even planning a method, then I am well and truly fucked, far more than I am now.