Method Carbon monoxide megathread

[406blue]

I'd like to know roughly how long it takes to kill. I don't usually have much time home alone, so need to plan ahead. Cause I have no idea on time I need.
Example situation;
1kg lumpcoal in a small car.
1-2 hours? 4+ hours?

35 ppm (0.0035%) Headache and dizziness within six to eight hours of constant exposure
100 ppm (0.01%) Slight headache in two to three hours
200 ppm (0.02%) Slight headache within two to three hours; loss of judgment
400 ppm (0.04%) Frontal headache within one to two hours
800 ppm (0.08%) Dizziness, nausea, and convulsions within 45 min; insensible within 2 hours
1,600 ppm (0.16%) Headache, increased heart rate, dizziness, and nausea within 20 min; death in less than 2 hours
3,200 ppm (0.32%) Headache, dizziness and nausea in five to ten minutes. Death within 30 minutes.
6,400 ppm (0.64%) Headache and dizziness in one to two minutes. Convulsions, respiratory arrest, and death in less than 20 minutes.
12,800 ppm (1.28%) Unconsciousness after 2–3 breaths. Death in less than three minutes.


A guy here did a test in his car with 1kg and his meter maxed out to 1000ppm in a minute, so i assume it can get up to 3000ppm at least for longer periods in the same space. I don't know what his car was or how he burned his coals etc and i wasn't there when he did it.

 

[406blue]

Few question:
1. Technically, do you need to burn off the black stuff on the outside before going inside? Or could you burn it off inside? Ik it gives off smoke but I'm wondering hypothetically because I'm not sure if its carbon or not lol
2. If the coals crumble will they still produce CO? Assuming the conditions are alright
3. Why do you have to wait for the coals to cool off? Why not just bring them inside right after chimney starter? Ik they're hot but again hypothetical.
Thanks a ton everyone.

All these questions are answered, or replied to if you go through this thread from the beginning.

 

[Deutschv2]

All these questions are answered, or replied to if you go through this thread from the beginning.

No

 

[406blue]

No

Yes, start from page one. Try to concentrate.

 

[Deutschv2]

Yes, start from page one.

No

 

[DreamFreedom]

35 ppm (0.0035%) Headache and dizziness within six to eight hours of constant exposure
100 ppm (0.01%) Slight headache in two to three hours
200 ppm (0.02%) Slight headache within two to three hours; loss of judgment
400 ppm (0.04%) Frontal headache within one to two hours
800 ppm (0.08%) Dizziness, nausea, and convulsions within 45 min; insensible within 2 hours
1,600 ppm (0.16%) Headache, increased heart rate, dizziness, and nausea within 20 min; death in less than 2 hours
3,200 ppm (0.32%) Headache, dizziness and nausea in five to ten minutes. Death within 30 minutes.
6,400 ppm (0.64%) Headache and dizziness in one to two minutes. Convulsions, respiratory arrest, and death in less than 20 minutes.
12,800 ppm (1.28%) Unconsciousness after 2–3 breaths. Death in less than three minutes.


A guy here did a test in his car with 1kg and his meter maxed out to 1000ppm in a minute, so i assume it can get up to 3000ppm at least for longer periods in the same space. I don't know what his car was or how he burned his coals etc and i wasn't there when he did it.

Thankyou v much for the simple answer.

 

[Joannf]

I've got a feeling nobody will be able to answer me here but I have a question regarding hydrostatic head of tents. I see people say "at least 3000mm for burning charcoal" but I'm really curious how the permeability to water of something links to the permeability of gas, namely CO. It's all well and good saying "at least 3000mm" as a wild guess just because it's very waterproof but I have a feeling permeability of gas may be more complicated.

The tents I'm looking at are made from polyester with taped seams so I'm curious if this would affect the permeability. I wouldn't suggest using a tent with an outer flysheet because this is the part that is waterproof and so sealing the bottom of the fly sheet would be tough, and CO sinks in air so if the bottom of the tent isn't sealed it would likely dissipate too quickly and not fill the tent.

Several things come to mind, 1st the inner tent will let the gas diffuse, CO will not rise to the top but spread evenly, you would be well advised to add some sort of foil... 2nd you want some more headroom, get a bigger tent ! The idea of curling around a heat source freaks me out and might spoil a peaceful, pleasurable death ;) 3rd as to nausea, that should be the case when concentrations rise VERY slowly... I had an incident with a generator running in the hall years ago, and the door fell closed so that when I came in there from another room, there was a CO accumulation of unknown quality... I just sort of weakened and my knees started giving before I realized what was going on, and using the momentum I managed to open the door and stumble outside, to take a couple of breaths and return to switch off the generator. So that was a realistic close encounter. No fear !

 

[Joannf]

I was meaning to use the inside of the car as a closed space

Car is perfect, you can even choose a romantic place, cars are relatively air tight.

 

[Joannf]

Once its really blasted and red, tip it into a tray or bucket and let it mellow out and relax for a while, it'll stop being so hot once its out the chimney. Grey and calm. Good.
It'll work, it can't not do. It's science. And the good thing is it'll keep giving off co for many hours, 5 to12.
It's the death method that keeps on giving even after you're long dead and don't require anymore. No other method I know of keeps doing that.

Maybe we should also consider that CO gas is highly explosive if it gets into contact with fire (or glowing coals) ?

 

[Nik]

Maybe we should also consider that CO gas is highly explosive if it gets into contact with fire (or glowing coals) ?

This is worrying me too. I searched, and this is the first link I found, https://chemistry.stackexchange.com...hich-temperature-does-carbon-monoxide-explode
Still researching.

 

[Deutschv2]

Yes, start from page one. Try to concentrate.

406blue, Today at 12:11 PM
Last edited: Today at 12:44 PM

 

[406blue]

Maybe we should also consider that CO gas is highly explosive if it gets into contact with fire (or glowing coals) ?

I've never heard of an incident when a car or tent someone was in exploded from CO being ignited, but plenty where people have done ctb. I think if the charcoal was hot enough to ignite CO ie flaming it would still be smoking as well and you wouldn't want to put it in there in the first place. The risk seems to be from an ignition source, not the actual heat. Accidental deaths with charcoal are because people bring the bbq inside because they think it's 'gone out' and just a little warm. In a car it might be a good idea to switch off the ignition.

 

[Pastdue]

I've put a bucket bbq in car after flames and smoke died down, coals glowing and run ppm test. Car gets saturated with carbon monoxide very quickly. I'd probably need to take something to keep calm as it smells funny and loosing conciousness isn't exactly a fun experience unless it with opioids.

edit: I will say that you won't get 10000 ppm from a bbq grill. However 10000 ppm is like pure carbon monoxide and will kill you in a few minutes, bbq will take around 20-1hr probably at the concentration it puts out so need to do somewhere isolated. Don't want to get found and sent to the mental hospital, I've been in one of those and they don't give a shit about their patients. They lie to you and you have to deal with the other patients waking up and screaming in the night, as if my insomnia wasn't bad enough.

 

[Joannf]

This is worrying me too. I searched, and this is the first link I found, https://chemistry.stackexchange.com...hich-temperature-does-carbon-monoxide-explode
Still researching.

I would assume... that when you get the coals inside (from outside), and they're glowing and producing the CO, this happens because the oxygen in the air is consumed at their surface and being turned INTO CO, so that no free oxygen remains in the immediate vicinity... or in other words, because the explosive reaction we are talking about would need lots of free oxygen, my GUESS is that there is little oxygen remaining, especially in the vicinity of the heat source. Or in still other words, and this would actually be the decisive factor, I HOPE that the oxygen in the air would more happily react with the carbon in the coal than with the O in CO ?

 

[406blue]

I've put a bucket bbq in car after flames and smoke died down, coals glowing and run ppm test. Car gets saturated with carbon monoxide very quickly. I'd probably need to take something to keep calm as it smells funny and loosing conciousness isn't exactly a fun experience unless it with opioids.

edit: I will say that you won't get 10000 ppm from a bbq grill. However 10000 ppm is like pure carbon monoxide and will kill you in a few minutes, bbq will take around 20-1hr probably at the concentration it puts out so need to do somewhere isolated. Don't want to get found and sent to the mental hospital, I've been in one of those and they don't give a shit about their patients. They lie to you and you have to deal with the other patients waking up and screaming in the night, as if my insomnia wasn't bad enough.

i think there is a fine line between taking something to calm down and not so much that you lose the plot. That experience in the hospital sounds bad.

 

[406blue]

I have been trying to look into the pros and cons of using briquettes or natural charcoal but can't seem to find much online.

I know there are different kinds of natural charcoal depending on the variety of wood used.. softwood, hardwood. I imagine hardwood charcoal will burn for longer and generate more heat. Most briquettes seem to be about 85 percent carbon from sawdust and residue from the timber industry, the rest being binding agents like wheat and starch.

My impression is that cheap natural charcoal will be in small pieces and made from softwood and will burn and release its co relatively quickly and so a larger quantity than the kilo usually recommended might be necessary.

Any input on this subject would be appreciated.

 

[Retched]

dumb question maybe, but one of those disposable bbqs? Do they work?

It seems the public are all too unaware of the dangers of these disposable BBQs.

"They spew out carbon monoxide for 12 hours after they have been used and there have been numerous cases of people losing their lives or nearly losing their lives.

 

[sini]

mo

I've put a bucket bbq in car after flames and smoke died down, coals glowing and run ppm test. Car gets saturated with carbon monoxide very quickly. I'd probably need to take something to keep calm as it smells funny and loosing conciousness isn't exactly a fun experience unless it with opioids.

edit: I will say that you won't get 10000 ppm from a bbq grill. However 10000 ppm is like pure carbon monoxide and will kill you in a few minutes, bbq will take around 20-1hr probably at the concentration it puts out so need to do somewhere isolated. Don't want to get found and sent to the mental hospital, I've been in one of those and they don't give a shit about their patients. They lie to you and you have to deal with the other patients waking up and screaming in the night, as if my insomnia wasn't bad enough.

 

[sini]

This is not what I wanted to reply. Just want to ask if anyone have CO analyser/meter that can test 0-10000ppm and generator? I think that by the time the generator stops completely due to lack of oxygen, CO would be 10000ppm or higher.

Only test I read said the amount of cyanide in car after the test, said that man who died 3/4 parts full generator in car didn't suffer after generator stopped and said it was too risky to test CO after 1000ppm from the car (I guess testers didn't want smoke/damage to their analyser and didn't want to leave it in car) But I don't know. It gets to 1000ppm in 30 seconds in tent.

I found only sellers from China with way too long shipping time. Extech etc. stopped selling portable CO meters that can measure above 1000ppm and many professional analysers cost thousands.

 

[sini]

Sorry about my writing mistakes. Man died in car with generator 3/4 parts full of gasoline. It was left on and stopped by itself due to lack of oxygen.

Generator produces same amount of CO than 200 cars.

 

[sini]

Forensic Science International
Volume 236, March 2014, Pages e19-e21
Case Report
Suicidal carbon monoxide poisoning using a gas-powered generator
Author links open overlay panelKatharinaBlässerMichaelBohnert
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.forsciint.2013.12.016Get rights and content

Abstract
Purpose
The presented case deals with an unusual suicide by carbon monoxide poisoning. In a car parked in a highway rest area, the body of a middle-aged man was found. In the open trunk of the car there was a gas-powered generator which was switched on, but no longer running. The tank was three quarters full. At autopsy, bright-red livores, cherry-pink fingernails, cherry-red blood and salmon-red skeletal musculature were found. According to the toxicological analysis performed during autopsy, the COHb content in the corpse blood was 68%.

Methods
To reconstruct the event, the emergency generator was started again in the man's car. By means of measuring probes placed in the interior of the car, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide and oxygen were measured and recorded in a concentration–time curve; the concentration of cyanide was measured at the end of the experiment.

Results
The lower explosion limit of 500 ppm CO was reached after 30 s already. For technical reasons, no further values could be recorded. After about 14 min the engine started stuttering with approximately 14 vol.% of oxygen in the air, but continued to run at a lower speed until the experiment was stopped after 25 min. The final concentration of cyanide was 7.5 ppm.

Conclusion
In view of the rapid CO increase in the interior of the vehicle it is to be assumed that the victim lost consciousness very fast.

 

[GoingSoonish]

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone has done any ppm testing that accounts for opening and closing the door to get inside the vehicle. I will be using a meter to see what the ppm level is before i get in. I can of course do some testing on the day but i am curious to see if the information is already out there.

Is it better to get inside with the coals and wait for the ppm to rise? In this scenario i would eventually lose consciousness from pills and alcohol (such as to avoid the effects of low exposure as it builds up).

Thanks in advance.

 

[Deivis]

By the way, CO is highly explosive if mixed with oxygen or air. A source on chemistry site says: "If mixed with air in a proportion between 12 and 75% it is explosive".

I'm wondering, if its possible to do a test blast? You'd just go to the countryside, setup a tent, seal it, put as much pre-cooked charcoals as you can inside, and put a candle *high* above. Because CO is heavier than air, it will leak down and slowly displace the air. You might want to leave a small hole on the roof. Just wait outside for an hour or so.

In theory, if this 10-12% concentration is attainable, the tent will eventually explode. Giving you the fact that 12% is more than enough since even 1% is already lethal.

What do you think?

 

[sini]

No way. You will not get those measures with charcoals. Like others said it may not even reach 1%.

 

[sini]

You will not get that high readings with generators etc. either. They always stop working with lack of air way before that. Lack of air affects charcoals too and you can't fit so much charcoals to get really high readings.

 

[sini]

It's not that easy to make CO with acids without right tools. One should have meter to measure it and watch out that those vapors don't ruin that expensive meter. One may get almost no CO and broken 500-3000$ meter.

 

[sini]

It's not that easy to make CO with acids without right tools. One should have meter to measure it and watch out that those vapors don't ruin that expensive meter. One may get almost no CO and broken 500-3000$ meter.

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone has done any ppm testing that accounts for opening and closing the door to get inside the vehicle. I will be using a meter to see what the ppm level is before i get in. I can of course do some testing on the day but i am curious to see if the information is already out there.

Is it better to get inside with the coals and wait for the ppm to rise? In this scenario i would eventually lose consciousness from pills and alcohol (such as to avoid the effects of low exposure as it builds up).

Thanks in advance.

I could post privately about it but don't know how to do it.

 

[sini]

I could post privately about it but don't know how to do it.

I liked your message, you can click my profile in your info then and if you message me I guess I can message back?

 

[Joannf]

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/i-have-failed-with-carbon-monoxide-method.673/#post-8554

This guy used Weber briqs and failed. I don't get it, it seemed like he did everything right, used a chimney starter, brought them in after the smoke has gone etc. I've been having my doubts because of this. Could the car have not been sealed enough? Or maybe you still have to "tough it out" if you suddenly wake up/still awake before finally losing consciousness.

He left the coals to burn to ash and then tried to use them... I've been testing briquettes these last days and they may need half an hour to get ready, then you have to act fast and get them inside and expect them to work for another half hour.
Take double the coals/briquettes you need - do everything double - two lots, to starters, also use lighting fluid from above to make sure they all ignite equally. Then, it's just a matter of timing. How hard can it be ?

 

[Joannf]

I found this somewhere, but the link has expired.

Conventional wisdom says lump burns hotter than briquets, but the folks at Cooks Illustrated claimed conventional wisdom to be wrong. They took two typical six quart chimneys and filled one with lump and one with briquets. They fitted two identical grills with seven digital thermometer probes each, and learned that by volume, not weight, and volume is how most of us measure charcoal, especially if we use a chimney, the two burned about the same for about 30 minutes, but after that the briquets held heat longer and the lump turned to ash faster.

We don't know if the lump produced more CO during its shorter life. On bags of charcoal there might be a reference to carbon content. I had one with 85 percent, the rest i assume is binding agent, which seems to fairly benign like starch or sugar. There are probably some additives as well to encourage burning.

Everything that burns badly (glowing, or yellow-red flame) produces CO... I

I have been trying to look into the pros and cons of using briquettes or natural charcoal but can't seem to find much online.

I know there are different kinds of natural charcoal depending on the variety of wood used.. softwood, hardwood. I imagine hardwood charcoal will burn for longer and generate more heat. Most briquettes seem to be about 85 percent carbon from sawdust and residue from the timber industry, the rest being binding agents like wheat and starch.

My impression is that cheap natural charcoal will be in small pieces and made from softwood and will burn and release its co relatively quickly and so a larger quantity than the kilo usually recommended might be necessary.

Any input on this subject would be appreciated.

It seems that anthracite coal has the highest carbon content with 87% - average charcoal will have 80% (I googled it), some briquettes probably less because there ARE briqs that start burning faster than others, hinting at helpers mixed in, thus lowering the content. And it rarely says ANYTHING but "high quality" on the packs... I bought 15 kgs charcoals in Portugal and they are giant lumps. They also have 5 kgs briqs at 2.99 local produce or British at 4.99 for 1.4 kgs (!) - the Brit briqs burn faster, meaning they probably mixed some shit inside - most people want this stuff to ignite fast, they want to grill not die ;) I'm still testing...