Breeders

[Mr2005]

How are humans better than zebras? What criteria do you use to define what "better" even is? Right now I think I would prefer to be a zebra on a planet full of other zebras. I've never heard of zebras murdering or torturing other living things because they think it's fun, but humans do it all the time.

I thought they meant the lions. Personally I think we'd be better off having some predator to worry about that isn't ourselves. It actually makes sense since it has to eat. With humans it's personal. Zebras aren't sat around on suicide forums discussing whether it's wrong to breed. They fuck like there's no tomorrow

 

[Fedrea]

I think this thread really shows a divide on this forum between people who believe life and the world in general are hopeless.


And those who believe life is often great for many but they want to ctb as things have gone wrong for them.

 

[person123]

I think this thread really shows a divide on this forum between people who believe life and the world in general are hopeless.


And those who believe life is often great for many but they want to ctb as things have gone wrong for them.

Life is wonderful!

Had things gone well for me, I would read a lot about quantum physics, math. Doing sports. Playing computer games. All sorts of stuff. Fucking is also on the list, and when I would get old, I would get euthanasia. Besides, now is the best time to be alive, technological singularity is on the horizon. Life is gonna be awesome for future generations.

 

[Mr2005]

I think this thread really shows a divide on this forum between people who believe life and the world in general are hopeless.


And those who believe life is often great for many but they want to ctb as things have gone wrong for them.

One of my problems with the world is how often people confuse the two or how often they just believe what they want even when it's not right or detrimental to others. As if it wasn't divisive enough already I'll mention Trump. He's a reflection of those things. Bad for the country meaning bad for him. The world cannot revolve around every single one of us individually. Every day would take years

 

[Stavrogin]

I think some don't understand that there is actually such a thing as philosophical Pessimism, and one can reason towards that position whether they're having a 'good' time on this earth or not.

 

[person123]

Fuck pessimism, life is amazing.

 

[Mr2005]

I think some don't understand that there is actually such a thing as philosophical Pessimism, and one can reason towards that position whether they're having a 'good' time on this earth or not.

They're very unlikely to unless given reason. I'm probably the reverse of that. I don't find it easier to believe it's all pointless. In fact I'd end it now so why do they keep going?

 

[Stavrogin]

Some, but most logically end up at that point by working from particular presuppositions (I'm talking about philosophers here). They keep going because of SI, or existential pondering's; to quote Emil Cioran, 'It is not worth the bother of killing yourself, since you always kill yourself too late'.

They're very unlikely to unless given reason. I'm probably the reverse of that. I don't find it easier to believe it's all pointless. In fact I'd end it now so why do they keep going?

 

[agentgeez]

Fuck pessimism, life is amazing.

I don't exactly mean to ruin other people's perspective on life and their happiness, but I think optimism and dismissal of pessimists/nihilists can be dangerous. I'm reminded of the phrase "Let them eat cake", in that people who are afforded the ability to be happy in life will not understand the perspective of pessimists and think there is something wrong with them or their way of thinking for being the way they are. Thus offering unhelpful or unworkable advice for a problem that they averted from the start. The reverse is likely true in that pessimists think optimists are insane for being the way they are, but in that sense it doesn't really matter since optimists don't have anything wrong, and if they do, they have the correct mental tools to handle it. Invalidating a pessimist's view on life, especially on a suicide forum, seems inconsiderate of their problems and, in a way, their entire life. People think the way they do for a reason and their suffering is very real. You may think life is wonderful or at least has the potential to be and that's perfectly fine, but there's a lot more to consider and this is why others may think life is not good and will not be good for future generations, or at least a fair amount of them.

 

[person123]

I don't exactly mean to ruin other people's perspective on life and their happiness, but I think optimism and dismissal of pessimists/nihilists can be dangerous. I'm reminded of the phrase "Let them eat cake", in that people who are afforded the ability to be happy in life will not understand the perspective of pessimists and think there is something wrong with them or their way of thinking for being the way they are. Thus offering unhelpful or unworkable advice for a problem that they averted from the start. The reverse is likely true in that pessimists think optimists are insane for being the way they are, but in that sense it doesn't really matter since optimists don't have anything wrong, and if they do, they have the correct mental tools to handle it. Invalidating a pessimist's view on life, especially on a suicide forum, seems inconsiderate of their problems and, in a way, their entire life. People think the way they do for a reason and their suffering is very real. You may think life is wonderful or at least has the potential to be and that's perfectly fine, but there's a lot more to consider and this is why others may think life is not good and will not be good for future generations, or at least a fair amount of them.

I want to die, but life is amazing. I am talking about awesome lives, not about my life.

 

[rhiino]

Besides, now is the best time to be alive, technological singularity is on the horizon. Life is gonna be awesome for future generations.

It is the worst time to be alive. It is the Dark Ages of modernity. Life is gonna be awful for future generations, they have to deal with the destruction of the ecosystem that is currently taking place, there will be wars for ressources and so forth. People will suffer even more than today and already today it is tremendous how many people get mentally ill or kill themselves because life is just not as amazing as you think for most people.

I cannot understand how anybody would look at the world, open their eyes and come to the conclusion that it is the best time to be alive.

 

[person123]

It is the worst time to be alive. It is the Dark Ages of modernity. Life is gonna be awful for future generations, they have to deal with the destruction of the ecosystem that is currently taking place, there will be wars for ressources and so forth. People will suffer even more than today and already today it is tremendous how many people get mentally ill or kill themselves because life is just not as amazing as you think for most people.

I cannot understand how anybody would look at the world, open their eyes and come to the conclusion that it is the best time to be alive.

Ecosystem will be fine, there will be no wars, and mental illnesses will be cured even before birth, through genetic engineering.

 

[Stavrogin]

Ecosystem will be fine, there will be no wars, and mental illnesses will be cured even before birth, through genetic engineering.

And that's the moment humanity truly dies.

 

[person123]

And that's the moment humanity truly dies.

What do you mean?

 

[Stavrogin]

What do you mean?

The day heaven is realised on earth, is the day tragedy makes its exit. Without tragedy man is nothing - soulless.

 

[person123]

The day heaven is realised on earth, is the day tragedy makes its exit. Without tragedy man is nothing - soulless.

I don't agree. I think the meaning of life is in studying the world. Being happy is also a science, that can be studied. Read the Moral Landscape by Sam Harris.

 

[Stavrogin]

I don't agree. I think the meaning of life is in studying the world. Being happy is also a science, that can be studied. Read the Moral Landscape by Sam Harris.

Empirical facts about the world say nothing about human meaning, read Hume. Can you define happiness for me, so I know what you mean?

 

[whywere]

Totally agree! I am 64 and my parents kicked my out at 18. My dad spent those i8 years using me as a punching bag, finally hit him back and out I go. Got married, BUT NEVER kids ever. Now my "parents" have passed on and left my older brother and younger sister a boat load of money and me ZERO. My wife is totally fine with money aspect and if I move on. That is why if I do pull the trigger big deal. "Breeders" are spot on. You sir are a GENIUS.

 

[person123]

Empirical facts about the world say nothing about human meaning, read Hume. Can you define happiness for me, so I know what you mean?

I can't define it. But I know it, when I see it. There are many things you can't define with words. Neil Degrasse Tyson is a happy guy.

Totally agree! I am 64 and my parents kicked my out at 18. My dad spent those i8 years using me as a punching bag, finally hit him back and out I go. Got married, BUT NEVER kids ever. Now my "parents" have passed on and left my older brother and younger sister a boat load of money and me ZERO. My wife is totally fine with money aspect and if I move on. That is why if I do pull the trigger big deal. "Breeders" are spot on. You sir are a GENIUS.

You're doing the right thing, let happy people procreate, while depressive people go extinct. Then everyone will be happy.

 

[Stavrogin]

That's not helpful at all, I don't know what you are talking about now unfortunately. That's very unempirical of you as well, for someone who is a Sam Harris and Neil Degrasse Tyson fan.

I can't define it. But I know it, when I see it. There are many things you can't define with words. Neil Degrasse Tyson is a happy guy.

You're doing the right thing, let happy people procreate, while depressive people go extinct. Then everyone will be happy.

 

[person123]

That's not helpful at all, I don't know what you are talking about now unfortunately. That's very unempirical of you as well, for someone who is a Sam Harris and Neil Degrasse Tyson fan.

I gave you a happy guy, now you define happiness. What does Neil Degrasse Tyson experience?

 

[Stavrogin]

I gave you a happy guy, now you define happiness. What does Neil Degrasse Tyson experience?

Wow...

 

[rhiino]

I gave you a happy guy, now you define happiness. What does Neil Degrasse Tyson experience?

He might appear happy to you. Depressed people can look happy on the outside and then suddenly kill themselves. You never know how happy someone really is.

 

[person123]

He might appear happy to you. Depressed people can look happy on the outside and then suddenly kill themselves. You never know how happy someone really is.

Neil Degrasse Tyson is happy, trust me, I can read peoples minds.

 

[Stavrogin]

You give up easily, no wonder you want to commit suicide.

Yes, you win. And as for the reason I quit, I'll leave you with an analogy: What would a boxer have to gain by fighting a man with no arms?

 

[person123]

Yes, you win. And as for the reason I quit, I'll leave you with an analogy: What would a boxer have to gain by fighting a man with no arms?

Who's the boxer? You, or me?

 

[Secrets1]

I don't understand SS'ders ITT thinking their feelings must apply to others, further over attributing those feeling and speaking so confidently in extremes. It ignores the middle ground where most of life exists. That contains good and bad. To dismiss people claiming content with living while carrying on about how your views or experiences are being overlooked by the "happy people" thus are not authentic is a representation of the selfish and egocentric aspect to the "anti-natalist" devotee. People DO get to decide if they want to live or not and choose their own reasons for doing so. Despite the challenges, taking ones own is an almost always option for everyone. It depends how committed you are which is a personal choice. And personal choice in numerous areas is one thing everyone here desires for suicide (method, acceptance from other people, etc.). So why does it make sense to impose our beliefs on others when it comes to life?! Despite not choosing to come into this world we are free to leave it.

 

[Lost in a Dream]

So why does it make sense to impose our beliefs on others when it comes to life?! Despite not choosing to come into this world we are free to leave it.

The reason is because bringing children into the world is something that the children themselves have no ability to consent to. They are being forced into this world with all of its problems against their will and a significant portion of them will likely end up with serious mental issues, whether their parents are good or not. That is just the way our world affects people. I have no issue with people doing whatever they want as long as it only affects them or other consenting people that agree to participate, but procreation doesn't fit in that category.

 

[Secrets1]

The reason is because bringing children into the world is something that the children themselves have no ability to consent to. They are being forced into this world with all of its problems against their will and a significant portion of them will likely end up with serious mental issues, whether their parents are good or not. That is just the way our world affects people. I have no issue with people doing whatever they want as long as it only affects them or other consenting people that agree to participate, but procreation doesn't fit in that category.

Im sorry I disagree. Having mental illness doesn't exclude someone from experiencing joy, love or a worthwhile life. I've slept on this thread for a few nights and come to the conclusion it resembles cultish horseshit much more than anything coming close to sound theory. The ferocity of certain attitudes displayed towards this subject that lack depth has absolutely contributed to my sentiment

 

[EmbraceOfTheVoid]

Im sorry I disagree. Having mental illness doesn't exclude someone from experiencing joy, love or a worthwhile life. I've slept on this thread for a few nights and come to the conclusion it resembles cultish horseshit much more than anything coming close to sound theory. The ferocity of certain attitudes displayed towards this subject that lack depth has absolutely contributed to my sentiment

My life has never been worthwhile in any sense of the word. Naive optimism involving the possibility of a child having good in their life is not justification to bring them into a world like this. Whether you want to admit it to yourself or not; nature was designed for survival and genetic fitness; not happiness. And your earlier comment about people being able to freely leave this place isn't true either. Human beings use censorship, force, intimidation, coercion, manipulation, and various forms of cruelty to prevent people from leaving this hellhole.

I have no problem with people doing whatever they want, up until the point that they start putting others in harms way.