Discussion Assisted suicide, VAD, Pegasos, Dignitas...

[DyingMiND]

I think on the Pegasos website it states that if you have a neurological condition, you still need a psychiatric evaluation. Is this true? Sorry if this has already been answered, but can you get a Pegasos psychiatrist to attest to your "sound mind"? I think a previous post said that may cost another 1000 CHF.

 

[dropintheocean]

I think on the Pegasos website it states that if you have a neurological condition, you still need a psychiatric evaluation. Is this true? Sorry if this has already been answered, but can you get a Pegasos psychiatrist to attest to your "sound mind"? I think a previous post said that may cost another 1000 CHF.

Yes, you might need one. I think its up to them to decide if they need/want this evaluation.

 

[Euthanza]

I like the Sarco invention. Plus it serves as a casket for burial. My question is how is he testing the kinks before release? Haha

The cost to make a Sarco is still too high, they stated it clearly in the FAQ.

Test on me then I'm waiting for the release date, hope it will be more affordable because it's non medical and can be used by many.

 

[assisted]

Anyone here is going to apply for assisted suicide in Switzerland or somewhere else?

I want to, how about you?

Send me a PM if you want.

For what?

 

[plshlpme]

Anyone applied/approved for VAD in Switzerland?

 

[betternever2havbeen]

I'm wondering why would someone prefer such an expensive and complicated method when you can order the stuff online? But maybe there is a reason, I don't know

I didn't know it was possible to get the same stuff online (and it appears to be getting trickier with seizures and wellness checks) until a couple weeks ago. In all my searching for ways to CTB I don't remember it ever coming up that you could actually order and use it yourself until I found this site (thank you SaSu!)

It's also quite expensive as well (although not compared to Dignitas of course) Personally if possible I suppose I'd rather it be all official and they made sure I was dead and there was no coming back. I know the risk is miniscule with N done properly but it's just that complete insurance. I don't have a lot of confidence in myself or my ability to do anything right so I'd rather leave it in someone else's hands! However I'm healthy so I can't go to Dignitas anyway, but it was going to be something I would look into the minute I got anything that could end up terminal.

 

[September Salt]

I didn't know it was possible to get the same stuff online (and it appears to be getting trickier with seizures and wellness checks) until a couple weeks ago. In all my searching for ways to CTB I don't remember it ever coming up that you could actually order and use it yourself until I found this site (thank you SaSu!)

It's also quite expensive as well (although not compared to Dignitas of course) Personally if possible I suppose I'd rather it be all official and they made sure I was dead and there was no coming back. I know the risk is miniscule with N done properly but it's just that complete insurance. I don't have a lot of confidence in myself or my ability to do anything right so I'd rather leave it in someone else's hands! However I'm healthy so I can't go to Dignitas anyway, but it was going to be something I would look into the minute I got anything that could end up terminal.

The law enforcement activity that you mention seems to be too high to reliably order N yourself these days in many countries. The Swiss option is legal so you don't have to worry about that.

 

[betternever2havbeen]

@September Salt yeh it sucks the minute I find out about it it's suddenly too risky to get...I don't like the idea of buying anything illegal-it's obviously different than other substances but it still feels wrong. I'd do it in a heartbeat though if I knew I could get it without it getting seized or police involved since desperate times and all that...

 

[September Salt]

@betternever2havbeen I'd do it too but once LE gets involved, things are guaranteed to get worse. There are shitty stories in other recent threads…

 

[betternever2havbeen]

@September Salt I know I'm following them all, I really hope they find a way round it and it'll be safe to order in a few weeks or months.

 

[Tortured Existence]

I've started and stopped the process of applying to Pegasos a couple times during the past year. When it comes down to it, dealing with airports and LONG flights is just too much. I was doing it for the same reason as others, the assurance that I'll be dead. Plus I liked the thought of not being alone.

In case this wasn't posted in this thread, here are the FAQ. (I could've posted it before myself and forgot).

https://pegasos-association.com/faqs/

 

[KQuotientW]

My mother was from a European country where VAD is legal. However, she became an Australian citizen and her country of origin doesn't allow dual citizenship, therefore revoked. I looked into it then found out that I can't go to that country, which is not Switzerland, because of the dual citizenship thing. I don't have any family to identify or support me anyway. Stopped talking to them years ago. They really do make it difficult. Instead, I'll be here on my property, with kangaroos and native birds, me drunk and sedated, waiting for CO to take me.

 

[DyingMiND]

Thought I'd share this with all of you.

From exit international about VAD, 2 weeks in Switzerland, specific medical condition with prognosis, no "healthy" people.

It's seems as if maybe the clinics (administration) don't have to abide by such rules, but the physicians themselves have to follow a specific code of conduct. Just more disappointing news.

https://www.exitinternational.net/foreigners-fret-over-stricter-swiss-rules-on-assisted-suicide/

 

[Tortured Existence]

Thought I'd share this with all of you.

From exit international about VAD, 2 weeks in Switzerland, specific medical condition with prognosis, no "healthy" people.

It's seems as if maybe the clinics (administration) don't have to abide by such rules, but the physicians themselves have to follow a specific code of conduct. Just more disappointing news.

https://www.exitinternational.net/foreigners-fret-over-stricter-swiss-rules-on-assisted-suicide/

I sent a letter to Pegasos about this last week after seeing a new article. Their response was that they are only guidelines, not laws, and they are not going to abide by them now or ever. I was quite reassured with their response.

 

[DyingMiND]

I sent a letter to Pegasos about this last week after seeing a new article. Their response was that they are only guidelines, not laws, and they are not going to abide by them now or ever. I was quite reassured with their response.

Yeah. When this topic can't about seeing the end of May. I emailed them at that time as well and got the exact same response. That doesn't mean the physicians who work there won't follow the guidelines though.

 

[Tortured Existence]

Yeah. When this topic can't about seeing the end of May. I emailed them at that time as well and got the exact same response. That doesn't mean the physicians who work there won't follow the guidelines though.

Based on their response, and that they're still giving the green light, I'd say that the physician(s) they work with are on board and aren't going anywhere. Money talks.

 

[DyingMiND]

Based on their response, and that they're still giving the green light, I'd say that the physician(s) they work with are on board and aren't going anywhere. Money talks.

Money is one thing for sure, so I won't argue about that. However, you have to realize that when it comes to being able to practice medicine (ie. Keep your license) all physicians will abide by rules set forth by their medical authorities. If it's just a guideline for now, they will probably continue to work as they do. This article states that none of the VAD clinics will help "healthy" people to die, yet those 2 sisters who went to Pegasos from the USA were apparently healthy. So statements such as these introduce ambiguity about the ability to get accepted or not. I know Pegasos wasn't named in this article specifically, but they all would have to abide by any rules set forth.

Edit: I read this article s little closer and it states that "The guidelines will be part of the deontological code doctors have to adhere to in the future and are as follows:"

However, the article states that the FMH (who have adopted the guidelines) represents the umbrella which all Swiss Medical Associations fall under and that 90 percent of physicians belong to it.

These statements cause so much ambiguity about which clinics are doing what at this time. I think this will definitely make getting a VAD much more difficult in the near future which definitely depends on your medical condition(s).

 

[Tortured Existence]

Money is one thing for sure, so I won't argue about that. However, you have to realize that when it comes to being able to practice medicine (ie. Keep your license) all physicians will abide by rules set forth by their medical authorities. If it's just a guideline for now, they will probably continue to work as they do. This article states that none of the VAD clinics will help "healthy" people to die, yet those 2 sisters who went to Pegasos from the USA were apparently healthy. So statements such as these introduce ambiguity about the ability to get accepted or not. I know Pegasos wasn't named in this article specifically, but they all would have to abide by any rules set forth.

Edit: I read this article s little closer and it states that "The guidelines will be part of the deontological code doctors have to adhere to in the future and are as follows:"

However, the article states that the FMH (who have adopted the guidelines) represents the umbrella which all Swiss Medical Associations fall under and that 90 percent of physicians belong to it.

These statements cause so much ambiguity about which clinics are doing what at this time. I think this will definitely make getting a VAD much more difficult in the near future which definitely depends on your medical condition(s).

The physician(s) that work with Pegasos do not belong to the FMH! That's why they're SO confident.

It's the reason in every article I've read concerning this, starting in March (I think), every Swiss VAD organization is mentioned except for Pegasos. Dignitas, Like Circle, & Exit are always in the article, usually with a quote expressing their anger or disagreement about the guidelines.

I don't want people on this site who would qualify for a VAD with Pegasos to worry.

Unfortunately, before I looked into it myself, I posted a thread when the first article came out. I was totally freaked out because I started an application with them a year ago.

I'm still slowly obtaining medical records in case somehow I fail on my own or am too afraid to try.

Honestly, there's nothing that could make me feel happy except euthanising myself with their IV. (The trip there is a major bitch, however.)

 

[Lone Wanderer]

Wait… so If I'm depress I can qualify for this assisted suicide service?

 

[DyingMiND]

The physician(s) that work with Pegasos do not belong to the FMH! That's why they're SO confident.

It's the reason in every article I've read concerning this, starting in March (I think), every Swiss VAD organization is mentioned except for Pegasos. Dignitas, Like Circle, & Exit are always in the article, usually with a quote expressing their anger or disagreement about the guidelines.

I don't want people on this site who would qualify for a VAD with Pegasos to worry.

Unfortunately, before I looked into it myself, I posted a thread when the first article came out. I was totally freaked out because I started an application with them a year ago.

I'm still slowly obtaining medical records in case somehow I fail on my own or am too afraid to try.

Honestly, there's nothing that could make me feel happy except euthanising myself with their IV. (The trip there is a major bitch, however.)

Ahh. Thanks for explaining. I didn't know they aren't associated with the FMH. How did you find that info out?

I started early too but put it off for different reasons. The main one was that I am suffering from a disease process which my doctors are failing to put down on paper. Long story. But the medical reports I have are sparse and, what they have written, appears as if my issues are not substantial enough to warrant a VAD. My condition is causing rapid deterioration with regards to mobility, pain etc.

So, I'm left wondering if I should even bother trying with Pegasos.

 

[jk9761]

Only 2 of the 7 VAD associations in Switzerland do not accept foreigners. We already had the whole discussion several times.

you seem to know alot about how pegasos works . do you think if I can prove I have early stage dementia I can get approved. I going to their offices in October after I attend the exit workshop in london . After i read their website saying you dont need to be terminally to get a VAD , bcz of this I quit my job , sold my car ,etc and was ready to go but when i contacted them they asked for my medical records and acted like they can't really do anything if I am not terminally ill . Thanks for any input .

 

[Priestess]

I contacted dignitas. They said you have to join and pay a membership fee first, then you have to pay about £4K for them to even consider helping you, and if they decide they won't help they still keep the money. You also have to provide medical evidence of your conditions and treatments you've tried.

 

[befree]

you seem to know alot about how pegasos works . do you think if I can prove I have early stage dementia I can get approved. I going to their offices in October after I attend the exit workshop in london . After i read their website saying you dont need to be terminally to get a VAD , bcz of this I quit my job , sold my car ,etc and was ready to go but when i contacted them they asked for my medical records and acted like they can't really do anything if I am not terminally ill . Thanks for any input .

Each application is decided on a case by case basis. If X was accepted for dementia or tinnitus, it doesn't have to mean that Y will be accepted as well.
You don´t have to be terminally ill. There are many health conditions that could be accepted. But there is never a guarantee. If you are rejected you will lose CHF 1.500,-. CHF 3.500,- of the CHF 5.000,- down payment will be refunded.

 

[jk9761]

Each application is decided on a case by case basis. If X was accepted for dementia or tinnitus, it doesn't have to mean that Y will be accepted as well.
You don´t have to be terminally ill. There are many health conditions that could be accepted. But there is never a guarantee. If you are rejected you will lose CHF 1.500,-. CHF 3.500,- of the CHF 5.000,- down payment will be refunded.

yes , i know . lose 2000 total . 500 for the doctor to come see see you . thanks.

 

[rationaltake]

yes , i know . lose 2000 total . 500 for the doctor to come see see you . thanks.

So do you actually have to go to Switzerland for the psychiatric assessment?

 

[befree]

So do you actually have to go to Switzerland for the psychiatric assessment?

You didn´t ask me, but I can answer this question. Yes, you have to travel to Switzerland for an expert opinion by an independent (!) psychiatrist. This costs appr. CHF 1.000,- + travel expenses. This is only necessary if you indicate only or also a mental condition in the application or if there are doubts regarding the mental capacity. The chance of being accepted with a mental health condition is very low, unless the mental illness is caused by a physical illness.

 

[rationaltake]

You didn´t ask me, but I can answer this question. Yes, you have to travel to Switzerland for an expert opinion by an independent (!) psychiatrist. This costs appr. CHF 1.000,- + travel expenses. This is only necessary if you indicate only or also a mental condition in the application or if there are doubts regarding the mental capacity. The chance of being accepted with a mental health condition is very low, unless the mental illness is caused by a physical illness.

Thanks. That's helpful.

I just followed your helpful link in a previous post to Life Circle. Life Circle is the gateway organisation to Eternal Spirit.

As in you join Life Circle and then apply to Eternal Spirit who deal with the VAD side.

Eternal Spirit stipulate that you need to be accompanied by a family member friend or aquaintance to identify you.

Pegasos as has been mentioned say you can join Exit International and pay them to send someone to accompany you.

 

[jk9761]

So do you actually have to go to Switzerland for the psychiatric assessment?

i would think so bcz their doctor has to prescreen first to see if they can accept you .

 

[rationaltake]

i would think so bcz their doctor has to prescreen first to see if they can accept you .

Yes. I think you're right.

It basically seems to involve a lot of money and a lot of organisation.

You also need to put the right things on the application.

For older people it might be helpful to join Exit International as it seems they have a connection with Pegasos.

 

[befree]

As in you join Life Circle and then apply to Eternal Spirit who deal with the VAD side.

Eternal Spirit stipulate that you need to be accompanied by a family member friend or aquaintance to identify you.

Pegasos as has been mentioned say you can join Exit International and pay them to send someone to accompany you.

Eternal Spirit and Life Circle work together. The VAD is performed by Life Circle.
Yes, Swiss law requires that someone identifies you after death. You can join Exit Int. and the may be able to send someone to identify you. But this is not allways possible. You would have to pay for all expenses for the person who identifies you (travel expenses, hotel...etc.).