Discussion Assisted suicide, VAD, Pegasos, Dignitas...

[befree]

Do you know who else said they sent a deposit and didn't hear back? This is happening to me! And I am worried they have scammed me.

I know Pegasos. Pegasos is a serious accociation ! Stop spreading false rumors. If you haven't received an answer yet, you should contact Pegasos and ask why the processing is taking so long. May be you haven´t sent in all required documents. However this forum should not be used to harm Pegasos reputation.

 

[dropintheocean]

Do you know who else said they sent a deposit and didn't hear back? This is happening to me! And I am worried they have scammed me.

Hi, they will answer you. Just be patient and send an email to ask gave they received your deposit and application. Are you applying due to a physical illness?

Sorry to hear that--How long has it been since you sent the deposit? Sometimes they take a long time to respond back

Hi, have you applied or going to?

 

[outrider567]

Hi, they will answer you. Just be patient and send an email to ask gave they received your deposit and application. Are you applying due to a physical illness?

Hi, have you applied or going to?

No, my CTB will be at home, where she and I had our best times together

 

[dropintheocean]

No, my CTB will be at home, where she and I had our best times together

Ok, thanks for sharing! Best wishes!

 

[Seeking_Peace]

Has anyone here actually been approved by Pegasos? What was the turnaround time? Also, I wouldn't apply for mental illness as you're just burning the processing fee. From my research, regarding mental health reasons, being over 50 would give you better chances of approval. Physical conditions that are terminal aren't age dependent.

 

[dropintheocean]

Has anyone here actually been approved by Pegasos? What was the turnaround time? Also, I wouldn't apply for mental illness as you're just burning the processing fee. From my research, regarding mental health reasons, being over 50 would give you better chances of approval. Physical conditions that are terminal aren't age dependent.

Some here have bern approved but those I know are not active anymore and did have severe physical illness. Would love to hear if someone approvedis here still?

 

[Seeking_Peace]

Some here have bern approved but those I know are not active anymore and did have severe physical illness. Would love to hear if someone approvedis here still?

Pegasos' approvals are more open-minded with quality of life being the determining factor. Application decision time 4-8 weeks. I'm still waiting for sufficient medical paperwork before applying.

 

[Talvikki]

Worrying News from Switzerland:

The Swiss Medical Association has released new guidelines for Swiss doctors which will make it more difficult for foreigners to obtain a VAD in Switzerland.

In a series of moves aimed at 'medicalising' a non-medical Criminal Code which allows anyone to help anyone else to die (as long as one's motives are altruistic), the Swiss Medical Association has placed new obligations on Swiss doctors.

These restrictions include:
- 2 interviews with prospective VAD applicants, 2 weeks apart
- No more VAD for 'healthy' people, regardless of age
- Confirmation of Capacity & Autonomous wishes by independent 3rd party

How these new guidelines will be adhered to by the Swiss assisted suicide groups remains to be seen.

 

[befree]

Bad news. Where and when did you read it ? Can you send a link ?

I found these links, but it´s in german:

Ärzteorganisationen wollen Sterbehilfe erschweren und ernten Kritik

Zwei Ärzteorganisationen wollen die Richtlinien ändern und somit Hürden schaffen für Ärzte und leidende Menschen. Schweizer Sterbehilfeorganisationen kritisieren die neuen Richtlinien in fünf Punkten.

www.fm1today.ch

Ärzteorganisationen wollen die Suizidhilfe erschweren – kath.ch

Medienmitteilung: Die Ärzteorganisationen FMH und Schweizerische Akademie der Medizinischen Wissenschaften (SAMW) wollen ihre "Richtlinien" zur Suizidhilfe verschärfen: Für betroffene Mensch

www.kath.ch

 

[Talvikki]

The Swiss Option Just Got Harder - The Peaceful Pill Handbook

The Swiss Option Just Got Harder because the Swiss Medical Association has changed its guidelines for doctors.

www.peacefulpillhandbook.com

 

[Seeking_Peace]

Independent 3rd party is ridiculous. Hey doc, can you sign off that I'm conscious of my decision to die? Sure, police are on the way LOL. What Dr is going to sign off on that without referring you to a ward.

 

[befree]

Independent 3rd party is ridiculous. Hey doc, can you sign off that I'm conscious of my decision to die? Sure, police are on the way LOL. What Dr is going to sign off on that without referring you to a ward.

The required opinion of a third party is the worst point. This point will make it impossible for many people to get VAD. And especially if you are in full health, hardly a third party will give the ok.

 

[Seeking_Peace]

The required opinion of a third party is the worst point. This point will make it impossible for many people to get VAD. And especially if you are in full health, hardly a third party will give the ok.

Agreed, I can't imagine many conditions now that will qualify for vad under these changes. I need to start making friends with doctors...

 

[dropintheocean]

Oh god, what does that all mean in practise? Is this all carried out immediately? Anyone knows? I dont speak german.

 

[befree]

Oh god, what does that all mean in practise? Is this all carried out immediately? Anyone knows? I dont speak german.

The new regulations already apply. https://www.sams.ch/dam/jcr:3154cd58-a2bf-4d2a-b11c-27a46174bbe0/guidelines_sams_dying_and_death.pdf
You need a approval by a independent(!) third party.

The PPH is in English.

The Swiss Option Just Got Harder - The Peaceful Pill Handbook

The Swiss Option Just Got Harder because the Swiss Medical Association has changed its guidelines for doctors.

www.peacefulpillhandbook.com

Imagine you go to your doctor and say you would like to have his independent ok for VAD. You could end up in psychiatry.

 

[dropintheocean]

The new regulations already apply. https://www.sams.ch/dam/jcr:3154cd58-a2bf-4d2a-b11c-27a46174bbe0/guidelines_sams_dying_and_death.pdf
You need a approval by a independent(!) third party.

The PPH is in English.

The Swiss Option Just Got Harder - The Peaceful Pill Handbook

The Swiss Option Just Got Harder because the Swiss Medical Association has changed its guidelines for doctors.

www.peacefulpillhandbook.com

Imagine you go to your doctor and say you would like to have his independent ok for VAD. You could end up in psychiatry.

Thanks!

What does Confirmation of Capacity and Autonomous Wishes by an Independent 3rd Party requirement exactly mean in practise? They dont clarify it. Whom would you contact and ask about it?

No one, even a terminal patient could ever get this kind of statement from their own doctor about VAD in my country. They would be considered suicidal. I live in a country where theres no euthanasia or vad.

The Swiss Option Just Got Harder - The Peaceful Pill Handbook

The Swiss Option Just Got Harder because the Swiss Medical Association has changed its guidelines for doctors.

www.peacefulpillhandbook.com

Hi, thanks for sharing! Do you happen to know more about this what I ask above? Thanks! :)

 

[befree]

Capacity means the mental ability. Autonomous wishes means that this is your own free will. Whom would you contact ? A doctor.

 

[ben7]

Contacted Pegasos and they say these are "only guidelines" and these guidelines do not have to be followed, so nothing has changed - am confused now - anyone know more?

 

[Nova]

Yes this is rather worrying. If it's really implemented, it would be nearly impossible to get VAD unless you are terminally ill. The only solution I see to this , is if the Sarco becomes readily available in Switzerland, as this doesn't need the approval of a doctor. See : https://www.peacefulpillhandbook.com/sarco-suicide-capsule-passes-legal-review-in-switzerland/

 

[Seeking_Peace]

Yes this is rather worrying. If it's really implemented, it would be nearly impossible to get VAD unless you are terminally ill. The only solution I see to this , is if the Sarco becomes readily available in Switzerland, as this doesn't need the approval of a doctor. See : https://www.peacefulpillhandbook.com/sarco-suicide-capsule-passes-legal-review-in-switzerland/

I like the Sarco invention. Plus it serves as a casket for burial. My question is how is he testing the kinks before release? Haha

 

[LeavingEarly]

You can pay an extra $1500 for witness

Their website has just about everything you need to know before starting app process. You have to pay $100 membership fee before you can apply.

I think you have to be over 55 for a witness through Exit International.

 

[DyingMiND]

Capacity means the mental ability

Overall, capacity includes several things. Some of these include: 1. Does one understand the nature of one's diagnosis, disease or illness? 2. Does one understand treatment options, if any, for said illness. 3. Does one understand what may happen if he/she decides not to take or undergo treatment? Etc. These are the basics of having mental capacity. It's just knowledge that one must fully understand before deciding that he or she has capacity. This is different than competence. Competence is somewhat similar but involves a court and judge. These are issues discussed in cases such as if someone had harmed somebody send then sent to jail. The individual may say, or their attorney, that they lacked the competence to understand their actions because of their mental state at the time of their crime. Did they understand between what is right vs wrong? So capacity has to do more with understanding things and that the person can make informed decisions even though they may detrimental to their health.

I think you have to be over 55 for a witness through Exit International.

This whole thing about an independent third party is confusing me. What do they want this 3rd party to say exactly? That you understand the consequences of your actions? Does that mean it should come from a psychiatrist?

Also, I'm still confused as to whether or not you need to be diagnosed with a terminal condition. Why should you especially if you have a condition causing you severe pain and suffering? Looking at one if the posts above, someone states that they called pegasos and that it's "just a recommendation". It seems clear by the post on exit international the answers to these questions are unclear and ambiguous.

I tried to email pegasos with a bunch of questions but they have not mailed me back yet.

Frustrating to say the least.

 

[dropintheocean]

Overall, capacity includes several things. Some of these include: 1. Does one understand the nature of one's diagnosis, disease or illness? 2. Does one understand treatment options, if any, for said illness. 3. Does one understand what may happen if he/she decides not to take or undergo treatment? Etc. These are the basics of having mental capacity. It's just knowledge that one must fully understand before deciding that he or she has capacity. This is different than competence. Competence is somewhat similar but involves a court and judge. These are issues discussed in cases such as if someone had harmed somebody send then sent to jail. The individual may say, or their attorney, that they lacked the competence to understand their actions because of their mental state at the time of their crime. Did they understand between what is right vs wrong? So capacity has to do more with understanding things and that the person can make informed decisions even though they may detrimental to their health.

This whole thing about an independent third party is confusing me. What do they want this 3rd party to say exactly? That you understand the consequences of your actions? Does that mean it should come from a psychiatrist?

Also, I'm still confused as to whether or not you need to be diagnosed with a terminal condition. Why should you especially if you have a condition causing you severe pain and suffering? Looking at one if the posts above, someone states that they called pegasos and that it's "just a recommendation". It seems clear by the post on exit international the answers to these questions are unclear and ambiguous.

I tried to email pegasos with a bunch of questions but they have not mailed me back yet.

Frustrating to say the least.

I think someone here said that pegasos relies mostly on right to die model and other vad clinics more on medical model. What does it mean in practise? You dont need to have a terminal diagnosis to get accepted by them. But we dont know how strict they are with diagnosis. Seems to me that its quite impossible to get vadif you are healthy and young. Maybe if you are really old theres a chance. But if you are under 70 looks like you need to have some illness that causes suffering but it doesnt need to be terminal. How severe illness, I dont know. This is my impression.

 

[befree]

Depending on the illness, the third party must be a psychiatrist or another doctor/specialist. You never needed to be diagnosed with a terminal condition at Pegasos. And regardless to the new guideline, which is not a law, the Swiss law says you do not have to be ill at all for VAD.

"the post on exit international the answers to these questions are unclear and ambiguous"....Right. That´s why I don´t trust Exit International and the PPH anymore. Too many things remain unclear and don´t seem sufficiently researched.

 

[DyingMiND]

I think someone here said that pegasos relies mostly on right to die model and other vad clinics more on medical model. What does it mean in practise? You dont need to have a terminal diagnosis to get accepted by them. But we dont know how strict they are with diagnosis. Seems to me that its quite impossible to get vadif you are healthy and young. Maybe if you are really old theres a chance. But if you are under 70 looks like you need to have some illness that causes suffering but it doesnt need to be terminal. How severe illness, I dont know. This is my impression.

I thought that Pegasos didn't accept those without a medical diagnosis before but, someone else on this forum told me they did. But now with this new policy, I feel that they will require that you need one even if it's not terminal. I agree with you about this "severity" concept because who can determine your degree if pain and suffering. Also, if you have physicians who are not properly diagnosing or describing your disease, illness or impairment then you're basically screwed. Also, this third party evaluation seems strange to me. Are they expecting a physician, a lawyer or your buddy to say you are having significant decline in capacity to do things or just that you gave a "sound mind"? I don't know. I wish I could just fly over there, jump in the sarco machine end drift off.

 

[befree]

"if you have physicians who are not properly diagnosing or describing your disease, illness."
"they expecting a physician, a lawyer or your buddy to say you are having significant decline in capacity to do things or just that you gave a "sound mind"?"

Again, the third party has to be an INDEPENDENT psychiatrist or another doctor/specialist. So not YOUR psychiatrist or another doctor/specialist, friend or lawyer and not a person who works for the VAD association. Independent and third are the key words.

But since Pegasos says that nothing changes with them, this should only apply to the other VAD associations.

 

[dropintheocean]

"if you have physicians who are not properly diagnosing or describing your disease, illness."
"they expecting a physician, a lawyer or your buddy to say you are having significant decline in capacity to do things or just that you gave a "sound mind"?"

Again, the third party has to be an INDEPENDENT psychiatrist or another doctor/specialist. So not YOUR psychiatrist or another doctor/specialist, friend or lawyer and not a person who works for the VAD association. Independent and third are the key words.

But since Pegasos says that nothing changes with them, this should only apply to the other VAD associations.

Yes, it is confusing since the new guidelines dont share who the third party should be. They even say it doesnt need to be a physician.

But like you said since pegasos said these dont change a thing I guess we dont need to worry about it if one is applying vad with pegasos. If applying to other clinics they could have other policies.

 

[befree]

"If applying to other clinics they could have other policies."
All the other VAD associations in Switzerland (and Germany) allways had different policies. So I really think we don´t have to worry about Pegasos.

 

[Nova]

I think you have to be over 55 for a witness through Exit International.

Where did you see this "55 yo" condition ? Is it official or an assumption ?

 

[Seeking_Peace]

Where did you see this "55 yo" condition ? Is it official or an assumption ?

You have to be 50 or older to get a witness. They might make an exception for younger folks if you have als or extremely debilitating terminal disease. Exit states age requirements on their site.