Anyone else here due to being an “incel”?

[Dr Iron Arc]

Again, l did not compare incels to nazis, nazis were used to illustrate the very obvious point that you don't need to subscribe to the ideology espoused by people because they created something you use. Nobody who uses this site should be made to feel as if they should express gratitude to incels by extension. This is such an unambiguously correct position I'm frankly impressed that you can somehow spin it into a further incoherent copypaste narrative of persecution.

Huh? I'm not trying to spin it into anything. Once again I'm mostly agreeing with you and only trying to add on to it further. My bad if it seems otherwise. If I'm reading correctly though (and I'm probably not) that guy wasn't even trying to say members should be grateful to incels as disgusting as that sounds. He seemingly meant that incels creating a suicide website merely shows a correlation between the two which is what makes it understandable from his perspective and that it's still a valid cause of suffering even though he's still wrong. Is it an objectively wrong take? Of course. Incels suffering is a good thing and the more they suffer, the more the rest of the world benefits.

It was completely right of you to attack him for it because anything remotely positive being tied to incels is deplorable in and of itself and once again I have to applaud you for fighting the good fight and crushing incels and their sympathizers with pure logic. I still think incels are worse than Nazis though.

I'm the stupid incel so my positions might seem ambiguous to you and for that I must apologize. Like I said I really wasn't trying to spin anything, just trying to support you in your noble endeavors.

 

[Chinaski]

Huh? I'm not trying to spin it into anything. Once again I'm mostly agreeing with you and only trying to add on to it further. My bad if it seems otherwise. If I'm reading correctly though (and I'm probably not) that guy wasn't even trying to say members should be grateful to incels as disgusting as that sounds. He seemingly meant that incels creating a suicide website merely shows a correlation between the two which is what makes it understandable from his perspective and that it's still a valid cause of suffering even though he's still wrong. Is it an objectively wrong take? Of course. Incels suffering is a good thing and the more they suffer, the more the rest of the world benefits.

It was completely right of you to attack him for it because anything remotely positive being tied to incels is deplorable in and of itself and once again I have to applaud you for fighting the good fight and crushing incels and their sympathizers with pure logic.

I'm the stupid incel so my positions might seem ambiguous to you and for that I must apologize. Like I said I really wasn't trying to spin anything, just trying to support you in your noble endeavors.

Ngl I'm not reading all that shit because l already know it's going to be tenth "actually I'm agreeing with you [breaks fourth wall, winks at audience]" post you've dropped in this thread but l do appreciate the effort you keep making, don't forget to drop the creepy heart react before quote-replying with a (somehow even lengthier) variation on the same tired Ferris Bueller riff.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Ngl I'm not reading all that shit because l already know it's going to be tenth "actually I'm agreeing with you [breaks fourth wall, winks at audience]" post you've dropped in this thread but l do appreciate the effort you keep making, don't forget to drop the creepy heart react before quote-replying with a (somehow even lengthier) variation on the same tired Ferris Bueller riff.

I only drop heart reacts because I know you hate hugs but I'll change to a different one if that's what you really want. Sorry

I still think you're misinterpreting my actions though which I once again apologize for. I'm genuinely just trying to help you bash incels because we deserve it.

 

[come to dust]

Huh? I'm not trying to spin it into anything. Once again I'm mostly agreeing with you and only trying to add on to it further. My bad if it seems otherwise. If I'm reading correctly though (and I'm probably not) that guy wasn't even trying to say members should be grateful to incels as disgusting as that sounds. He seemingly meant that incels creating a suicide website merely shows a correlation between the two which is what makes it understandable from his perspective and that it's still a valid cause of suffering even though he's still wrong. Is it an objectively wrong take? Of course. Incels suffering is a good thing and the more they suffer, the more the rest of the world benefits.

It was completely right of you to attack him for it because anything remotely positive being tied to incels is deplorable in and of itself and once again I have to applaud you for fighting the good fight and crushing incels and their sympathizers with pure logic. I still think incels are worse than Nazis though.

I'm the stupid incel so my positions might seem ambiguous to you and for that I must apologize. Like I said I really wasn't trying to spin anything, just trying to support you in your noble endeavors.

Yes, you read my point correctly. Chinaski didn't

 

[Chinaski]

Yes, you read my point correctly.

this site was created by incels, so we have them to thank for that.

My mistake, l obviously misread the bit where you said "we have [the incels] to thank" to mean "we have [the incels] to thank", when clearly you did not mean "we have [the incels] to thank" but instead meant something other than what was expressed clearly and directly in the post, thank you for clarifying.

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

Tbf he's right and you're wrong, you talk about being "hardwired" as if to deny a man sex is akin to denying him water or oxygen, again suggesting that there is no suffering quite like that of men who don't get sex when tbqh the sense of grief, loss, sorrow and emptiness which comes after the separation from a loved one is not something which can be drawn in parralel in this way. In fact I'd say that drawing this comparison as an equal is to actually diminish that grief somewhat, l know incels are very sensitive towards "invalidating comments" and as such it would do you no harm to be respectful of the fact that other people have problems which cannot be measured against not having sex.

No it really isn't. This thread has seen a significant propelling of the suffering, persecution and the overall claim to victim status of men who don't get sex above pretty much anybody else, comparing your predicament to that of a paraplegic is a bit off imo.

Based on the antipathy/indifference you've demonstrated, it kinda is. Sure… maybe it's extreme, but… it kinda fits the narrative.

If you're an incel who struggles in not only sex and relationships, but opportunities with having a job, or a social life all because of looks, with people gaslighting and telling you it's your "evil" personality, or find some other way to dismiss you, like trivializing it down to sex, then yeah…

 

[come to dust]

My mistake, l obviously misread the bit where you said "we have [the incels] to thank" to mean "we have [the incels] to thank", when clearly you did not mean "we have [the incels] to thank" but instead meant something other than what was expressed clearly and directly in the post, thank you for clarifying.

Yeah, you can thank the 2 incels who made this forum. I mean, if you're that mad that you don't appreciate the two incels whi made the site then you're just blinded by hatred. But that was not my main point which you conveniently sidestepped by only quoting that one sentence.

 

[Chinaski]

Based on the antipathy/indifference you've demonstrated, it kinda is. Sure… maybe it's extreme, but… it kinda fits the narrative.

"lt kinda is" what exactly? I mean, which point in the quoted post are you attempting to address here because it is not clear. You are right to observe my indifference fwiw, l mean why should l honestly give a fuck if the next man isn't getting laid?

You're also spilling the discussion over to job opportunities, social activity etc which are not problems exclusive to the sexually deprived male and should not be seen as such. You're replying to a post l made in reply to a comment about sex and sex only, in a thread about men who are *involuntarily celibate*, and attempting to now state that it's actually not just about sex at all, but about a wider social stigma and yeah, frankly l have little time for the notion that unprepossessing men with little in the way of personal charm are amongst the most disadvantaged within society, principally because it's objectively not true.

 

[YourNeighbor]

So many on here suffer physical and mental illness to the point where killing oneself is a real prospect. Then there are those who belittle this suffering and equate their lack of sex with the worst forms of agony. Enough already.

And the term "incel" is a joke. If one identifies as an "incel," there is nothing involuntary about their "celibacy." Anyone identifying with such a level of misogyny and entitlement to use women as sex objects is unlikely to have a meaningful relationship with women--that's obvious and a conscious choice.

If anyone is suffering from loneliness, wishes to have a meaningful and intimate relationship, and has trouble making such connections, the only solution is to work on developing the traits and practices that make human connection more likely.

 

[come to dust]

The lack of empathy in this thread blows my mind. Everyone is accepting of suffering and right to die unless the reason someone wants to die is because they can't havse sex. When that's the reason, we should just belittle them instead or patronise them in a pro life way.

I want to die because I have a chronic physical illness. But that doesn't mean I can't respect someone else wanting to die for another reason e.g. lack of sex.

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

"lt kinda is" what exactly? I mean, which point in the quoted post are you attempting to address here because it is not clear. You are right to observe my indifference fwiw, l mean why should l honestly give a fuck if the next man isn't getting laid?

You're also spilling the discussion over to job opportunities, social activity etc which are not problems exclusive to the sexually deprived male and should not be seen as such. You're replying to a post l made in reply to a comment about sex and sex only, in a thread about men who are *involuntarily celibate*, and attempting to now state that it's actually not just about sex at all, but about a wider social stigma and yeah, frankly l have little time for the notion that unprepossessing men with little in the way of personal charm are amongst the most disadvantaged within society, principally because it's objectively not true.

Well… I imagined what OP was talking about wasn't solely about sex. And looks tend to play a role in that more than you think. Sometimes you can be the best of the best, but someone else will be chosen due to having better looks or nepotism. I won't lie, the inability to get involved with someone is a huge factor, but with all the other negatives tend to drive the nail further in the coffin.

And what makes it objectively untrue? Because the notion is popular among the majority who couldn't understand what it's like to be an incel?

 

[Chinaski]

So many on here suffer physical and mental illness to the point where killing oneself is a real prospect. Then there are those who belittle this suffering and equate their lack of sex with the worst forms of agony. Enough already.

Absolutely this. One of the biggest fallacies on this website is that we are all suffering and therefore that suffering is equal when it is absolutely fucking not, for all the talk of "invalidating" the suffering of others there is nothing more invalidating than seeing men who don't get sex be allowed to even pretend that celibacy is a problem equal to suffering from debilitating physical or mental illness, or a chronic and severe pain condition. This is absolutely inappropriate imo and whilst l certainly don't think a hierarchy of suffering would be beneficial it would certainly help if people here could at least retain a sense of perspective and remembered that some people on here are struggling with what are objectively much greater problems than men who don't get sex.

 

[YourNeighbor]

The lack of empathy in this thread blows my mind. Everyone is accepting of suffering and right to die unless the reason someone wants to die is because they can't havse sex.

"Incels" aren't unable to have sex. They choose to cut off the possibility of doing so by adopting hate and repelling the goal they supposedly seek, then make themselves out to be martyrs. Don't be daft--it is a conscious choice to label oneself an "incel."

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

There is also another problem… When you lack love, or social support, and get lonely, you're bound to have physical health problems as time goes by. Debilitating ones.

"Incels" aren't unable to have sex. They choose to cut off the possibility of doing so by adopting hate and repelling the goal they supposedly seek, then make themselves out to be martyrs. Don't be daft--it is a conscious choice to label oneself an "incel."

But not every incel is hateful. Some actually try to remain their best selves despite all the shit they've had thrown at them. Sure, it's a struggle not to give into the darkness, but yeah… it doesn't make it impossible.

 

[come to dust]

Absolutely this. One of the biggest fallacies on this website is that we are all suffering and therefore that suffering is equal when it is absolutely fucking not, for all the talk of "invalidating" the suffering of others there is nothing more invalidating than seeing men who don't get sex be allowed to even pretend that celibacy is a problem equal to suffering from debilitating physical or mental illness, or a chronic and severe pain condition. This is absolutely inappropriate imo and whilst l certainly don't think a hierarchy of suffering would be beneficial it would certainly help if people here could at least retain a sense of perspective and remembered that some people on here are struggling with what are objectively much greater problems than men who don't get sex.

This is very much a you problem. I have a debilitating physical illness and that's the only reason I'm going to CTB but it really doesnt bother me if other people want to die or feel they are suffering because of reasons relating to sex. I'm not here to compete with them and I don't think anyone else should either.

 

[Chinaski]

This is very much a you problem. I have a debilitating physical illness and that's the only reason I'm going to CTB but it really doesnt bother me if other people want to die or feel they are suffering because of reasons relating to sex. I'm not here to compete with them and I don't think anyone else should either.

It's not a "me" problem. You complain earlier about "muh empathy in this thread muh h8rs" and l quite agree with you - this thread has seen celibacy equated with paraplegia, celibate men touted as a priority over the chronically ill for MAID, celibacy given equal status to grief and loss of a loved one, celibate men as recurring victims of a systemic societal persecution, and probably more besides if l could be arsed to check.

Each time this is done it is absolutely diminishing the problems faced by those suffering the conditions that are used as equivalences to celibacy and absolutely highlights where the empathy deficit lies.

 

[Superdeterminist]

So many on here suffer physical and mental illness to the point where killing oneself is a real prospect. Then there are those who belittle this suffering and equate their lack of sex with the worst forms of agony. Enough already.

And the term "incel" is a joke. If one identifies as an "incel," there is nothing involuntary about their "celibacy." Anyone identifying with such a level of misogyny and entitlement to use women as sex objects is unlikely to have a meaningful relationship with women--that's obvious and a conscious choice.

If anyone is suffering from loneliness, wishes to have a meaningful and intimate relationship, and has trouble making such connections, the only solution is to work on developing the traits and practices that make human connection more likely.

I'm happy for you if you don't experience distress from this domain of life - you would be lucky in that regard. Not everyone is so lucky; there have been real cases of ctb over this. As well, I think it's unfair to equate the idea to misogyny. I don't see how there's anything anti-women about being sad/frustrated due to a lack of intimacy or relationship experience. This is really the core idea of it. It's not a male-exclusive thing, or even a hetero-exclusive thing.

 

[Al Cappella]

See, for me, I'd even go so far as not judging that someone believes their life is in the toilet because they're "ugly" and not getting laid. I mean, I wonder, sure—but I'm not going to say (out loud) that one form of suffering is worse than another. Although, I mean really—I've gone for more than a decade sans sex and intimate connection—and personally I think being eaten by a shark would be worse.

But. When some bloke not getting any decides he's going to align himself with a group of violent misogynists, then argue "hey, they're not all bad; they've all been horribly victimized!", well that's a solid "no" from me. I mean Jesus, you have the FBI and RCMP, etc watching those forums to get a handle on radicalized nut jobs! End of.

 

[Superdeterminist]

"Incels" aren't unable to have sex. They choose to cut off the possibility of doing so by adopting hate and repelling the goal they supposedly seek, then make themselves out to be martyrs. Don't be daft--it is a conscious choice to label oneself an "incel."

Of course, nobody ever goes without involuntarily, because after all, we live in a perfectly just world...right? Everything is right there for the taking, so as long as we check the boxes (?) and complete the designated steps (?), no doubt everything will be just swell, for all...wait.

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

But. When some bloke not getting any decides he's going to align himself with a group of violent misogynists, then argue "hey, they're not all bad; they've all been horribly victimized!", well that's a solid "no" from me. I mean Jesus, you have the FBI and RCMP, etc watching those forums to get a handle on radicalized nut jobs! End of.

The only reason incels often get labeled as such is because of the minority. It's the few people who fucked up the definition. Just like 8chan communities, where it's only frowned upon because someone decided to go and shoot up walmart. Perhaps we should round up all the SS users with suicide fetishists, all because of a few lurkers, or one person who was in ASH was a suicide fetishist.

Point is, an incel is an incel. Nothing more.
A racist/misogynist/misandrist/homophobe/heterophobe/predator/whatever bullshit can he an incel, but not all incels fit the many mentioned labels. They can just be normal people who just don't fit in the looks department.

 

[YourNeighbor]

Of course, nobody ever goes without involuntarily, because after all, we live in a perfectly just world...right? Everything is right there for the taking

As I wrote, anyone who chooses a philosophy where sex is a thing of "taking" (sounds a bit rapey, no?) and chooses to identify as a woman-hating entitled victim, the lack of intimate connection can't be described as involuntary. It's a voluntary choice to identify as an "incel."

The only reason incels often get labeled as such is because of the minority. It's the few people who fucked up the definition.

I have not seen anyone ever label anyone else as an incel, let alone that happening "often." One only sees people label *themselves* as incels. Here, those people present themselves as suffering victims of God knows what. There are ways to connect intimately with others. Adopting a mantle of misogyny is not one such way. Anyone who adopts this label is not "involuntarily" celibate.

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

As I wrote, anyone who chooses a philosophy where sex is a thing of "taking" (sounds a bit rapey, no?) and chooses to identify as a woman-hating entitled victim, the lack of intimate connection can't be described as involuntary. It's a voluntary choice to identify as an "incel."

I have not seen anyone ever label anyone else as an incel, let alone that happening "often." One only sees people label *themselves* as incels. Here, those people present themselves as suffering victims of God knows what. There are ways to connect intimately with others. Adopting a mantle of misogyny is not one such way. Anyone who adopts this label is not "involuntarily" celibate.

Nonetheless, even if you were to call yourself as something else, like "forever alone" that would still make you an incel. In a nutshell, you can be against incels, so far to the point as to be a member of IncelTears, or be entirely "bluepilled" and still be an incel.

Some of us who don't even know the word as and refer to ourselves as being foreveralone, still can be an incel, the funny thing is, before they even know the word, they know that "foreveralone" isn't entirely accurate.

Also, for the record, a lot of incels are actually quite humble. But it's a shame this im14andthisisdeep tier quote seems to fit the narrative.


As for where I fit in, that's hard to say. I acknowledge my own faults and I try to better myself. And I've kinda given up on searching for love, and any meaningful connection. I'm fortunate enough to have some deep connection with a few people (here's to hoping it lasts ), all I can do is just focus on muself. Live under my self-interests a little more. I won't be happy, but happiness is subjective and fickle. My goal is satisfaction.

 

[Yann]

It's not the only reason but yeah, not so much sex but more so romantic affection. I wish I could experience that part of life too. No one really wants to have anything to do with me even friends. It's obvious I am a "low value" person and it makes me feel awful. I also want to feel special, wanted, loved, interested in.

Yeah. The worst part is giving attention, empathy, and love to others over and over again and receiving nothing in return because nobody loves or respects you. People consider me a low value person but aren't afraid to use me.

I think loving and being kind to other people, all people, is a gift to both yourself and the other person. That being said, a lifetime of giving and not getting anything back eventually depletes you of everything you have. I really relate to your sentiment. I just want to even know what it feels like to be really loved by someone.

 

[Life_isover128]

What an absolutely infuriating feeling to be dismissed and invalided so much. Think I'm blocking all the gas lighters

 

[come to dust]

It's not a "me" problem. You complain earlier about "muh empathy in this thread muh h8rs" and l quite agree with you - this thread has seen celibacy equated with paraplegia, celibate men touted as a priority over the chronically ill for MAID, celibacy given equal status to grief and loss of a loved one, celibate men as recurring victims of a systemic societal persecution, and probably more besides if l could be arsed to check.

Each time this is done it is absolutely diminishing the problems faced by those suffering the conditions that are used as equivalences to celibacy and absolutely highlights where the empathy deficit lies.

You really need to stop creating a hierarchy of suffering.

Guess what: there are some paraplegics who actually want to live *shock*

Some paraplegics want to live and some want to die. Some celibates want to live and some want to die. We're not here to act as judge and jury over what criteria are valid for someone to live or die. It's a personal decision.

You're absolutely no better than someone trying to claim that incels deserve "priority" in euthanasia. (suicidal incels have severe mental issues anyway: depression, body dysmorphic disorder etc)

 

[Chinaski]

You really need to stop creating a hierarchy of suffering.

Guess what: there are some paraplegics who actually want to live *shock*

Some paraplegics want to live and some want to die. Some celibates want to live and some want to die. We're not here to act as judge and jury over what criteria are valid for someone to live or die. It's a personal decision.

You're absolutely no better than someone trying to claim that incels deserve "priority" in euthanasia. (suicidal incels have severe mental issues anyway: depression, body dysmorphic disorder etc)

Yeah you're totally missing the point here for like, the fifth fucking time and l honestly cba with this shit at this stage, my points were quite clear.

What an absolutely infuriating feeling to be dismissed and invalided so much. Think I'm blocking all the gas lighters

The switch to corny victim performance is absolutely embarrassing, it's fucking impossible to engage on any level with people who seem to demand endless pity and then double down on the nsuseating persecution play when they don't get it.

 

[Red Scare]

Absolutely this. One of the biggest fallacies on this website is that we are all suffering and therefore that suffering is equal when it is absolutely fucking not, for all the talk of "invalidating" the suffering of others there is nothing more invalidating than seeing men who don't get sex be allowed to even pretend that celibacy is a problem equal to suffering from debilitating physical or mental illness, or a chronic and severe pain condition.

And what if their celibacy is the result of debilitating physical or mental illness, or a chronic and severe pain condition? That just seems like ableism to me.

As a widower I find myself in similar a position where I feel like I will be alone for the rest of my life, and like I won't ever really have that sort of connection with another person for the rest of my life, it's depressing as hell. I can only imagine how someone must feel who has never known what it's like to be in love.

I hate sleeping alone, waking up alone, coming home to an empty place and having no one to enjoy spending time with, eating alone, going out alone. I can totally relate to that. I expect to be alone myself, for at least the rest of my life (which I honestly hope is not very long). I can only imagine what someone feels like who has never had anyone like that in their lives. Loneliness is one of the driving factors behind my own depression. There is so much I took for granted about being in a relationship like that, I don't think I would judge someone because they are depressed or suicidal about never having been in love

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

And what if their celibacy is the result of debilitating physical or mental illness, or a chronic and severe pain condition? That just seems like ableism to me.

As a widower I find myself in similar a position where I feel like I will be alone for the rest of my life, and like I won't ever really have that sort of connection with another person for the rest of my life, it's depressing as hell. I can only imagine how someone must feel who has never known what it's like to be in love.

I hate sleeping alone, waking up alone, coming home to an empty place and having no one to enjoy spending time with, eating alone, going out alone. I can totally relate to that. I expect to be alone myself, for at least the rest of my life (which I honestly hope is not very long). I can only imagine what someone feels like who has never had anyone like that in their lives. Loneliness is one of the driving factors behind my own depression. There is so much I took for granted about being in a relationship like that, I don't think I would judge someone because they are depressed or suicidal about never having been

You... I like you. I'm happy you get it. And I'm sorry for your loss, as generic as that line may be. Even though there's a chance you wouldn't want to risk losing another again, or if you don't want to be with someone out of respect of your late husband/wife, I hope you can find another chance to love again while you're still alive.

You've definitely hit the nail on the head on the having no one to go to when you get home part; that's pretty much what it feels like. Even though I have no idea what it's like to have someone, I feel as though it would give me a sense of purpose, however small it may be.

 

[Chinaski]

And what if their celibacy is the result of debilitating physical or mental illness, or a chronic and severe pain condition? That just seems like ableism to me.

Wait, this is ableism now too? Is there anything you unsufferable wetwipes will not try and illegitimately claim from others, jfc.

Short answer is that when soneone is suffering from chronic pain, a debilitating illness, sex is less a priority, to the point of it not even being a consideration amongst the other issues. This is such an obvious point that doesn't even need stating, yet you will persist in pretending that not getting laid is absolutely equal to crippling agony. This nonsense is absolutely pathetic and fully deserving of ridicule.

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

Wait, this is ableism now too? Is there anything you unsufferable wetwipes will not try and illegitimately claim from others, jfc.

Short answer is that when soneone is suffering from chronic pain, a debilitating illness, sex is less a priority, to the point of it not even being a consideration amongst the other issues. This is such an obvious point that doesn't even need stating, yet you will persist in pretending that not getting laid is absolutely equal to crippling agony. This nonsense is absolutely pathetic and fully deserving of ridicule.

Such beef... it's hysterical...