Anyone else here due to being an “incel”?

[Al Cappella]

A bit about the word "incel". True, it began innocently, with a woman who simply wanted to share her experience at not having an intimate relationship for sometime—and were there others like her out there. It was not gender specific back then either.

Today, and a bunch of mass killings later, the term means something completely different, and is linked to violence against women, whether you like it or not. I would personally be inclined to come up with another word, but that's just me.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

There's clearly a significant difference between thinking someone is talking shit and thinking they should be wiped out, again l appreciate your position as a member of the most persecuted "community" on the planet depends on deliberately confusing the two but I'd like to make clear that this is not the case.

Of course, of course. I never claimed to be the most persecuted, far from it. We happen to be a persecuted community but I suppose it can be argued that it doesn't count if we deserve it. If that's what you're trying to say, well done.

 

[Seiba]

No, I am a virgin but I do not want anything to do with that term nor the ideology of looks being supreme over all else. That aside, I find it a novelty for people to claim uppermost effort in all spheres possible, but it's just the pesky looks holding them back. Minor props for acknowledging that even women can have relationship problems, but your approach to their issue is flawed. It's not the hierarchy of looks that determines if women are treated horribly or suffer. Plenty of women are abused in relationships, from domestic violence to daughters being unwillingly assaulted by step-fathers.

It's perfectly fine, and even a normal problem to want more in life in regards to your connections in the world. I would just suggest trying to evaluate yourself and why you are truly having this problem. It's easier to say there's nothing you ever could possibly do and there was never any interpersonal flaw in how you interact and engage with others over and that it's just the pesky looks that get everyone treated poorly in the end.

For reference, this is coming from someone who was homeschooled and rarely had any human interaction. I only left the house for grocery pick up and sometimes go to my grandparents only to stare at their floor. It's been this way for over ten years with very little interaction. I've came to the conclusion I would prefer fixing the problem of not being consistently engaging with material objects and otherwise getting enjoyment in them if possible. I'm not suggesting you need to come to the same conclusion, but just that other people can be fine being alone considering your framing of the uppermost suffering is being alone. What goal or pursuit would a relationship over that a friendship can't? How often you are around them? The level of dedication they would offer to you over a friendship? Considering most relationships, and a decent portion of marriages pose problems how happy would you feel if it ended or posed a problem such as cheating? Would just being in one for a brief period solve your problem? Even if it ended horribly and on bad terms? What would the interactions need to look like for you in your daily life for you to be happy with them?

A bit about the word "incel". True, it began innocently, with a woman who simply wanted to share her experience at not having an intimate relationship for sometime—and were there others like her out there. It was not gender specific back then either.
Today, and a bunch of mass killings later, the term means something completely different, and is linked to violence against women, whether you like it or not. I would personally be inclined to come up with another word, but that's just me.

A singular word for explaining away the problem isn't needed. They can just actually discuss what they think it would add to their life as a singular person. Why anyone wants to reduce themselves to a shared group object in name is beyond me. Even more so where it has be linked ideologically to shooters.

Of course, of course. I never claimed to be the most persecuted, far from it. We happen to be a persecuted community but I suppose it can be argued that it doesn't count if we deserve it. If that's what you're trying to say, well done.

I've been observing the interactions and you're just being pretty bad faith tbh. Trying to criticize a illogical mindset and otherwise show flaws in it isn't inherently trying to persecute someone. Criticism isn't a flogging or just cruelly torturing someone.

 

[Chinaski]

. I never claimed to be the most persecuted, far from it.

In suggesting incels should be second in line to the terminally ill for euthanasia purely for the joy it would supposedly bring others it could certainly be construed as you holding an inflated view of the persecution of men who don't get sex, but l suppose it's possible l read too much into that when you consider that literally nobody could genuinely believe that men who don't get sex are the most marginalised and systemically oppressed people in the world and expect that opinion to be taken remotely seriously.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I've been observing the interactions and you're just being pretty bad faith tbh. Trying to criticize a illogical mindset and otherwise show flaws in it isn't inherently trying to persecute someone. Criticism isn't a flogging or just cruelly torturing someone.

Not saying it was, I was just awestruck at how heroic he was being. I don't see it as bad faith at all but even if I am whatever that is, I don't really have faith in anything.

In suggesting incels should be second in line to the terminally ill for euthanasia purely for the joy it would supposedly bring others it could certainly be construed as you holding an inflated view of the persecution of men who don't get sex, but l suppose it's possible l read too much into that when you consider that literally nobody could genuinely believe that men who don't get sex are the most marginalised and systemically oppressed people in the world and expect that opinion to be taken remotely seriously.

Yeah I don't believe they are the most persecuted or oppressed, just the most beneficial for society to remove. I want it to be peaceful since I'm an incel myself but if you prefer they be incarcerated/tortured first or made to die less humanely that's fine with me too. I'm agreeing with you that they deserve zero sympathy and that their problems are far from the worst. In fact they cause more than they experience. Sorry my words made you think otherwise. Chalk that up to me being a stupid incel.

 

[come to dust]

If by incel you mean too chronically ill to leave the house and have sex with someone then yeah I'm currently incel. All I want is to feel a man's touch but in my current state I can barely walk

 

[Chinaski]

Not saying it was, I was just awestruck at how heroic he was being. I don't see it as bad faith at all but even if I am whatever that is, I don't really have faith in anything.

In this thread I've responded to posts suggesting:

* the word "incel" has negative connotations that it shouldn't have, as if these connotations are not due to the conduct of self-described incels but because of persecutive propaganda

* those who express criticism of incel rhetoric entrench resentment and are therefore technically responsible for the more aggressive acts committed by incels in response

* The misogynistic language might be unpleasant but sometimes there is "insight" so, hey, on balance, it's kind of worth tolerating

* lncels should receive euthanasia over and above everyone other than the terminally ill, such is both their personal suffering and the degree of societal persecution of men who don't get sex

I mean, there's no "heroism" in pushing back on these obviously wrong-headed positions, they are objectively incorrect and it's absolutely fair imo for people to expect, if they insist on putting forward opinions like these, that they may subsequently be challenged upon them. This isn't an incel forum, the fact that it's an overly dominant theme, and that overt misogyny is given excessive tolerance on this forum, does not mean everyone is compelled to sympathise with this bullshit.

 

[Life_isover128]

There's clearly a significant difference between thinking someone is talking shit and thinking they should be wiped out, again l appreciate your position as a member of the most persecuted "community" on the planet depends on deliberately confusing the two but I'd like to make clear that this is not the case.

I agree with you that the incel community faces nowhere near the discrimination that people of color or other oppressed groups face but their is significant oppression and discrimination in society based on looks there is scientific evidence to prove this. Stuff like higher chance of being falsely accused of a a crime, longer prison sentences than normal, lower chance to get promotions, extreme difficulty to find a romantic partner, and the correlation they found in a Swedish study of the risk of suicide being significantly higher for short men. The most infuriating thing is the constant dismissal and invalidation of these very real problems. Even on a forum like this one there is no escape from the constant gas lighting and dismissal of the issue altogether it's completely unacceptable the cold, unempathetic approach society has for sexually unsuccessful men it's disgusting really.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

In this thread I've responded to posts suggesting:

* the word "incel" has negative connotations that it shouldn't have, as if these connotations are not due to the conduct of self-described incels but because of persecutive propaganda

* those who express criticism of incel rhetoric entrench resentment and are therefore technically responsible for the more aggressive acts committed by incels in response

* The misogynistic language might be unpleasant but sometimes there is "insight" so, hey, on balance, it's kind of worth tolerating

* lncels should receive euthanasia over and above everyone other than the terminally ill, such is both their personal suffering and the degree of societal persecution of men who don't get sex

I mean, there's no "heroism" in pushing back on these obviously wrong-headed positions, they are objectively incorrect and it's absolutely fair imo for people to expect, if they insist on putting forward opinions like these, that they may subsequently be challenged upon them. This isn't an incel forum, the fact that it's an overly dominant theme, and that overt misogyny is given excessive tolerance on this forum, does not mean everyone is compelled to sympathise with this bullshit.

Yup you hit the nail on the head yet again. Have you considered writing a bestseller or getting your own news show? I really think the entire world has to hear your infinite wisdom. You're absolutely right. An incel's suffering matters very little because other people who identified as such did genuinely vile acts and thus speak for all of us. And of course this is all only about men who are unable to get sex, not anyone else. I'm sorry I'm so stupid. I know you're trying to be modest but putting us in our place is truly the best thing anyone who has ever typed on this forum has ever thought to do.

 

[Ada]

I don't understand the obsession with sex, it seems cruel to me. There is another person involved in that experience, and they are vulnerable too.

 

[...]

nothing makes me more embarrassed to be a young man dealing with mental health than seeing the majority of threads like this just being other young men saying how the route of their depression is not getting laid. never about intricate and complex emotional issues regarding companionship, friendship, feeling lonely but always leading with the fact they are "involuntary celibate". society is fucking cursed man wrap it up.

 

[Superdeterminist]

I don't understand the obsession with sex, it seems cruel to me. There is another person involved in that experience, and they are vulnerable too.

I'm guessing you've already had sex

nothing makes me more embarrassed to be a young man dealing with mental health than seeing the majority of threads like this just being other young men saying how the route of their depression is not getting laid. never about intricate and complex emotional issues regarding companionship, friendship, feeling lonely but always leading with the fact they are "involuntary celibate". society is fucking cursed man wrap it up.

You are quick to judge. Celibacy might not bother you, that doesn't mean it doesn't bother other people. We aren't the same. You can think it's silly or whatever, but we don't all agree.

 

[...]

You are quick to judge. Celibacy might not bother you, that doesn't mean it doesn't bother other people. We aren't the same. You can think it's silly or whatever, but we don't all agree.

im sorry I just do not get the life or death dependancy on it even years ago when I was a virgin. I feel like if any of these incels were to get laid they would immediately want to ctb realising that it won't actually transform your life.

 

[Chinaski]

it's completely unacceptable the cold, unempathetic approach society has for sexually unsuccessful men it's disgusting really.

Okay so on this basis, what should society do to make "sexually unsuccessful" men feel better about themselves? What measures should society take to to recognise the plight of the undersexed male? To what degree should society prioritise the coddling of the male ego?

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I don't understand the obsession with sex, it seems cruel to me. There is another person involved in that experience, and they are vulnerable too.

Some would say it's not just about the sex since that alone can probably be achieved fairly easily with the right amount of money. Having to spend money for it though could be demoralizing as well. They might say it's about the amount of self-esteem being with a romantic partner can sometimes generate.

Intimacy might be the more accurate thing many lonely men are lacking but because most can barely think beyond their basest instincts (myself included) the sex aspect ends up becoming the dominant topic of discussion when it comes to the entire scope of human connection we've been insipidly programmed to crave. Maybe there should be a word for "involuntarily intimacy-less". Inints if you will. The fact that word sounds even more awkward is probably why the incel label is still going to be used in the future. I don't believe losing my virginity once will magically cure all of my trauma and ills but it's just nice to imagine that someone who I'm attracted to is also attracted to me even though that will never be the case.

But like I said, my perspective as an incel means that nothing I say has any objective truth and in fact, is only further adding to the problem. I know I'm insignificant and do not deserve for my problems to ever be alleviated because my existence in and of itself is directly harmful to women everywhere. I know I'm too cowardly to have the guts to endure the actual punishment I deserve for being a horrible incel but I'm making one last spineless plea for a peaceful end because at least I'd be out of the picture sooner. I recognize how vile it is to expect humane pest control as the pest myself but I can't help it much.

Okay so on this basis, what should society do to make "sexually unsuccessful" men feel better about themselves? What measures should society take to to recognise the plight of the undersexed male? To what degree should society prioritise the coddling of the male ego?

Absolutely nothing. Any man who has failed to reach success in this front only deserves more strife.

 

[Chinaski]

But like I said, my perspective as an incel means that nothing I say has any objective truth and in fact, is only further adding to the problem. I know I'm insignificant and do not deserve for my problems to ever be alleviated because my existence in and of itself is directly harmful to women everywhere. I know I'm too cowardly to have the guts to endure the actual punishment I deserve for being a horrible incel but I'm making one last spineless plea for a peaceful end because at least I'd be out of the picture sooner. I recognize how vile it is to expect humane pest control as the pest myself but I can't help it much.

This is pathetic, embarrassing self-serving drivel and does not represent anything within the above exchanges.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

This is pathetic, embarrassing self-serving drivel and does not represent anything within the above exchanges.

Thank you. I needed to hear that.

 

[Superdeterminist]

im sorry I just do not get the life or death dependancy on it even years ago when I was a virgin. I feel like if any of these incels were to get laid they would immediately want to ctb realising that it won't actually transform your life.

Or, maybe they would realise they were worrying over nothing and it would cause them to calm down.

 

[nothing123]

 

[Ada]

But like I said, my perspective as an incel means that nothing I say has any objective truth and in fact, is only further adding to the problem. I know I'm insignificant and do not deserve for my problems to ever be alleviated because my existence in and of itself is directly harmful to women everywhere. I know I'm too cowardly to have the guts to endure the actual punishment I deserve for being a horrible incel but I'm making one last spineless plea for a peaceful end because at least I'd be out of the picture sooner. I recognize how vile it is to expect humane pest control as the pest myself but I can't help it much.

It really hurts to read that. I think it is completely out of place to neglect someones suffering on a suicide forum, and I never meant to do that. The torture from being rejected and thinking that there is something wrong with oneself that justifies it must be unbearable. For a social being, nothing amounts to that.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

It really hurts to read that. I think it is completely out of place to neglect someones suffering on a suicide forum, and I never meant to do that. The torture from being rejected and thinking that there is something wrong with oneself that justifies it must be unbearable. For a social being, nothing amounts to that.

Nah, please don't worry about me. It's not worth it:

This is pathetic, embarrassing self-serving drivel and does not represent anything within the above exchanges.

This is the proper response to have after reading what I said. Look at his example.

 

[Chinaski]

This is the proper response to have after reading what I said. Look at his example.

Yes, and l absolutely stand by it given the way you continue to misrepresent the entire dialogue within this thread as a means of portraying yourself, rather manipulatively imo, as persecuted, marginalised and supremely victimised because someone on an internet forum disagreed with your opinion.

 

[Yann]

im sorry I just do not get the life or death dependancy on it even years ago when I was a virgin. I feel like if any of these incels were to get laid they would immediately want to ctb realising that it won't actually transform your life.

This convo might be above my paygrade, but I think it is about more than sex too. In fact I think the sex itself is one of the smaller aspects. It's that socially, sex is seen as so important. And the messages being sent to people all the time inform them that their life is incomplete without it, and that nothing can replace it, and that it is essential to having a successful romantic relationship, which in Western culture and media (and i reason this is likely true for Eastern media as well) is seen as one of the most important or pivotal things in life. It's also viewed as a coming-of-age moment, especially for men in context of their social circle and social development. I am just saying, there are so many "meta" issues surrounding sex that make it so important beyond just our biological inclination (which is also significant). Sex is supposed to be fun, mysterious, empowering, exciting, full of pleasure, connecting, fulfilling, and, among men, raises one's social status.

With this in mind, I think it is very reasonable that people pin their lack of joy on this or go so far as to obsess over it. It's a reasonable conclusion, and you cannot know you are wrong unless you try. Honestly, I am not sure why you are so adamant that it wouldn't change some people's lives. I mean, ideally we should derive our confidence internally. But I see it reasonable that becoming sexually active could be a catalyst to pull someone out of a difficult time.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Yes, and l absolutely stand by it given the way you continue to misrepresent the entire dialogue within this thread as a means of portraying yourself, rather manipulatively imo, as persecuted, marginalised and supremely victimised because someone on an internet forum disagreed with your opinion.

Right again I suppose. I'm really not trying to be manipulative and evil but I just can't help it, it's in my incel nature after all. Let me make it clear that I am doing nothing but agreeing with you and I'm not trying to elicit any sympathy at all from anyone. I feel like you might be misinterpreting my words as well though. I don't believe I am being persecuted, oppressed, or victimized at all. None of those are happening to me or any other incels and even if they are it's clearly because we deserve it. I know that and I truly apologize if you think I'm trying to deceive you. I couldn't possibly succeed if I were to try that because of highly intelligent you are. I have done my best to speak the truth about my opinions but of course as I said, my truth and opinions are inherently flawed so it's wonderful that someone like you is around to keep me in check.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

I see a lot of people complaining that they can't get laid due to the way they look, but I don't understand it. I know lots of less than perfect looking guys, and most of them are in a relationships or have been in relationships before. I see straight up ugly people out and about with partners, I see them wearing wedding rings..ect. The partners are usually on the same level looks wise though. Is too high standards an issue?

It has to be more than looks holding incels back.

 

[Life_isover128]

I don't understand the obsession with sex, it seems cruel to me. There is another person involved in that experience, and they are vulnerable too.

To those that can get it it's not too important. To those that can't it becomes literally EVERYTHING. It's also not just sex it's intimacy and the motivation you get knowing your desirable to someone as well

 

[Al Cappella]

I see a lot of people complaining that they can't get laid due to the way they look, but I don't understand it. I know lots of less than perfect looking guys, and most of them are in a relationships or have been in relationships before. I see straight up ugly people out and about with partners, I see them wearing wedding rings..ect. The partners are usually on the same level looks wise though. Is too high standards an issue?

It has to be more than looks holding incels back.

What they believe is most likely the product of distorted thinking, etc. A person is rejected, they then think they're hideous, and so the spiral goes. Looks do matter in terms what someone finds attractive, but not nearly the way it's made to sound. It's been my experience that some ppl make themselves unattractive when they start talking and behaving like idiots.

 

[Life_isover128]

I see a lot of people complaining that they can't get laid due to the way they look, but I don't understand it. I know lots of less than perfect looking guys, and most of them are in a relationships or have been in relationships before. I see straight up ugly people out and about with partners, I see them wearing wedding rings..ect. The partners are usually on the same level looks wise though. Is too high standards an issue?

It has to be more than looks holding incels back.

I'm really not an any mood to explain it to you. You probably would just reject and dismiss my experiences like everybody else. Even on a God damn suicide forum the gas lighting and dismissal doesn't end how exhausting Christ

 

[Life_isover128]

What they believe is most likely the product of distorted thinking, etc. A person is rejected, they then think they're hideous, and so the spiral goes. Looks do matter in terms what someone finds attractive, but not nearly the way it's made to sound. It's been my experience that some ppl make themselves unattractive when they start talking and behaving like idiots.

Not doing this with you. I know what I've experienced period. Looks matter period. Stop dismissing my problems please if it wasn't a problem for me i wouldn't be here you don't see me dismissing the reason you're here so I ask for a little respect for my issues please.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

Not doing this with you. I know what I've experienced period. Looks matter period. Stop dismissing my problems please if it wasn't a problem for me i wouldn't be here you don't see me dismissing the reason you're here so I ask for a little respect for my issues please.

But what about the millions of ugly people with partners?