Discussion An observation from Media focus on pro-choice suicide site

[TowerUpright]

(Disclaimer - I joined the whole SS conversation after this took place)

I had a revelation earlier today. I know that this site, and others, are under scrutiny due to a suicide where the person was a member of this family. The mother, if I recall correctly, was making it a mission to shut sites like this down, because she felt they killed her daughter. Interesting enough, the obit requested that "instead of flowers, give to a (group that helps prevent suicide).

There's a conflict here, isn't there? If this person was seriously concerned about preventing suicide, would she be using her 30 seconds of fame on suggesting mental health professionals flood these sites to help people? It appears she's wants to run us underground and close our sites.. It's interesting, and ironic, that she's actually not preventing suicide: she's trying to hide it.

Therefore, preventing suicide is not her goal. She's not acting out the role as a concerned parent - she's acting out of vengeance and, likely, guilt: our family knew more about her daughter than she did. Her daughter could confide in us more than she could her own family.

That says something right there. Any thoughts? Am I way off base? Is this a verboten topic?

 

[czx85]

Well, unluckily, everyone is selfish. When something is not accepted by the majority, or would cause loss to the majority, the majority would most likely stop it

 

[jake3d]

Therefore, preventing suicide is not her goal. She's not acting out the role as a concerned parent - she's acting out of vengeance and, likely, guilt: our family knew more about her daughter than she did. Her daughter could confide in us more than she could her own family.

This is very well put, I couldn't have said it better myself. You get my upvote.

 

[not_a_robot]

You're right, but it makes us look bad to point it out.

 

[not-2-b-the-answer]

I'm sure the mother is hurting so she is acting out of vengeance. Even if she could manage to shut this and other sites down... more will start.
I think I said this before somewhere... Suicide won't stop … even if they were to successfully close all sites. It will probably just lead to more violent suicides if there aren't less painful ways to discuss on how to successfully CTB.
Also ... If life weren't so shitty, many of us wouldn't want to CTB.

 

[omoidarui]

Therefore, preventing suicide is not her goal.

by closing down this site, i believe her intention is to make information on ways to die inaccessible to the public (or so i gathered from her latest interview) so you could say suicide prevention is her goal. although all the methods are already elsewhere online so they're really not preventing anything..

 

[Meretlein]

David Foster Wallace compared suicide to jumping out of burning building. Pro-lifers don't want to put out the fire, they want to bar the windows so we can't escape.

 

[Empty Smile]

This is just it.... Every other group in the country is allowed to "have a voice"....

Not us though. We are the weak, attention seeking, mentally ill fucktards, who are a waste of space on the planet.

If we speak, no one listens anyway, so we have sites like this where we can confide in people just like us. When someone does ctb, it was our fault they did it. We just can't win.

 

[Severen]

I'm sure the mother is hurting so she is acting out of vengeance. Even if she could manage to shut this and other sites down... more will start.
I think I said this before somewhere... Suicide won't stop … even if they were to successfully close all sites. It will probably just lead to more violent suicides if there aren't less painful ways to discuss on how to successfully CTB.
Also ... If life weren't so shitty, many of us wouldn't want to CTB.

She should get revenge on herself then for being an epic fail.

 

[not_a_robot]

This is just it.... Every other group in the country is allowed to "have a voice"....

Not us though. We are the weak, attention seeking, mentally ill fucktards, who are a waste of space on the planet.

If we speak, no one listens anyway, so we have sites like this where we can confide in people just like us. When someone does ctb, it was our fault they did it. We just can't win.

We are a waste, sickos, monsters, but we shouldn't kill ourselves...

 

[Onomotopoeia]

a mother is grieving she has every right to be unreasonable in that grief and we cannot and should not fault for that.

Is she taking the wrong approach? Absolutely. Is she infact making an attempt to "hide" suicide? Also yes.

the issue here lies with the media who is running this story. People want to prevent suicide by force so they don't have to deal with the real issues that cause suicide. Family and friends who cannot take the time to make an effort to understand someone else's point of view.

Preventing suicide by force is simpler/easier/and requires less effort than making an effort to be better human beings to those closest to us. It's really as simple as that.

Mom is grieving let her lash out where she wants, but someone should really be shaming the media for not running the story based on how this poor girl tried to get professional help and was failed.

 

[Severen]

a mother is grieving she has every right to be unreasonable in that grief and we cannot and should not fault for that.

Is she taking the wrong approach? Absolutely. Is she infact making an attempt to "hide" suicide? Also yes.

the issue here lies with the media who is running this story. People want to prevent suicide by force so they don't have to deal with the real issues that cause suicide. Family and friends who cannot take the time to make an effort to understand someone else's point of view.

Preventing suicide by force is simpler/easier/and requires less effort than making an effort to be better human beings to those closest to us. It's really as simple as that.

Mom is grieving let her lash out where she wants, but someone should really be shaming the media for not running the story based on how this poor girl tried to get professional help and was failed.

So if someone is grieving, they can get a free pass to do whatever the fuck they want? A lot of mass murderers were grieving in the past.

 

[inconsequential]

You're right, but it makes us look bad to point it out.

Came here to say this, but @not_a_robot said it already.

There's no point in anyone who was already suicidal proclaiming these things. It's only when new people come, observe, & realize this that an outside conversation can be initiated. The actions/reactions of people are largely due to ego, guilt hurting the ego, & chronic oversharing on social media.

 

[Onomotopoeia]

So if someone is grieving, they can get a free pass to do whatever the fuck they want? A lot of mass murderers were grieving in the past.

that is not at all what I said - her anger is unquestionably misplaced - and nobody gets a free pass, ever. I'm just saying we are spending to much time focusing on the mother. It's the media who is running with this on all the wrong topics -

Let's talk about right to die, freedom of information, harm reduction and the damaging premise of mental health services that remove freedoms for having thoughts

Spending our effort being mad at a grieving woman instead of the media is misplaced imo. We should have these discussions in the open and not try to sweep them under the rug like this woman is doing.

 

[Severen]

that is not at all what I said - her anger is unquestionably misplaced - and nobody gets a free pass, ever. I'm just saying we are spending to much time focusing on the mother. It's the media who is running with this on all the wrong topics -

Let's talk about right to die, freedom of information, harm reduction and the damaging premise of mental health services that remove freedoms for having thoughts

Spending our effort being mad at a grieving woman instead of the media is misplaced imo. We should have these discussions in the open and not try to sweep them under the rug like this woman is doing.

But didn't she decide to turn to the media? I don't recall the media being involved until she contacted them.

 

[Soul]

a mother is grieving she has every right to be unreasonable in that grief and we cannot and should not fault for that.

Is she taking the wrong approach? Absolutely. Is she infact making an attempt to "hide" suicide? Also yes.

the issue here lies with the media who is running this story. People want to prevent suicide by force so they don't have to deal with the real issues that cause suicide. Family and friends who cannot take the time to make an effort to understand someone else's point of view.

Preventing suicide by force is simpler/easier/and requires less effort than making an effort to be better human beings to those closest to us. It's really as simple as that.

Mom is grieving let her lash out where she wants, but someone should really be shaming the media for not running the story based on how this poor girl tried to get professional help and was failed.

I agree that the mother has some excuse for lashing out irrationally but the media should stop egging her on. At some point she'll realise what she's really railing at and will be distressed that she's been doing it so publicly.

 

[inconsequential]

that is not at all what I said - her anger is unquestionably misplaced - and nobody gets a free pass, ever. I'm just saying we are spending to much time focusing on the mother. It's the media who is running with this on all the wrong topics -

Let's talk about right to die, freedom of information, harm reduction and the damaging premise of mental health services that remove freedoms for having thoughts

Spending our effort being mad at a grieving woman instead of the media is misplaced imo. We should have these discussions in the open and not try to sweep them under the rug like this woman is doing.

Not victim blaming, but she gave the media something to run with. She posted screenshots on Facebook. They've been spread around the world. She talked to people. Then various media outlets started making their own narratives with what she'd given them.

The blame line runs from the media straight to her.

 

[Severen]

I agree that the mother has some excuse for lashing out irrationally but the media should stop egging her on. At some point she'll realise what she's really railing at and will be distressed that she's been doing it so publicly.

There is a difference between lashing out though and starting a cold and calculating campaign to make everyone like us into criminals. Lashing out, would be coming here and calling us all evil monsters and then calling the police or whatever. Then calming the fuck down, some days later and then trying to figure out what exactly went wrong... Lashing out is getting pissed off and punching someone in the face or breaking their legs but if someone comes up with a master plan to kill someone, I don't think a judge in court, would see someone like that as simply a grieving person who is lashing out... And besides, people should have the discipline to control themselves, no matter what so they don't hurt innocent people but only hurt the people who are really guilty. That's called being a human being instead of being a savage beast. Billions of people go through a point in their life when they are grieving over the loss of a loved one. But not all of them, start attacking innocent people, repeatedly...

 

[Onomotopoeia]

But didn't she decide to turn to the media?

absolutely she did -

However now the media is running with it and nobody is pushing back in a meaningful way. That's my point. She is screaming murder and nobody in press has the integrity or honesty to point out how patently false that is.

I'm not saying she is without blame -she without a doubt started this - but expecting her to be rational at this stage is in itself irrational and anyone who has lost someone close to them will understand that.

The media on the other hand should be reporting more facts than spin and they are not. You do not need to tell this grieving woman directly she is wrong but surely it should be mentioned in a news article?

Even if you are are hardcore pro life you should still be able to see the difference between information and murder.

Information I might add - that is already pretty accessible in multiple other places on the web

I agree that the mother has some excuse for lashing out irrationally but the media should stop egging her on. At some point she'll realise what she's really railing at and will be distressed that she's been doing it so publicly.

\
Yea, that is basically my point - the media should have shut this down and instead police are trying to nitpick to see if something said on an internet forum can be considered murder... broken, broken, system

 

[Empty Smile]

I was just googling this site. We are also in the Kiwifarms forum.

Did a suicide website contribute to a young woman's death? Her family believes so.

http://archive.li/DWle7 Did a suicide website contribute to a young woman's death? Her family believes so. In the last moments of her life, Shawn Shatto turned to an internet forum. The 25-year-old woman had been in pain for some time, suffering from severe depression and anxiety. She had...

kiwifarms.net

I do like what one user on there stated:

I just read "suicide" and "website" and was certain It was gonna be about kiwifarms.

Also sanctioned suicide is probably one of the farthest thing from a toxic website, it's just a bunch of clinically depressed people talking about how much their lives problems and giving support to each other, kinda wholesome in a really fucked up way, -but I can see how an observer might get a bad impression from a website literally name "sanctioned suicide".

Also it's not going anywhere, it was shoah'd from Reddit for Reddit's public image and didn't die out.

 

[Soul]

There is a difference between lashing out though and starting a cold and calculating campaign to make everyone like us into criminals. Lashing out, would be coming here and calling us all evil monsters and then calling the police or whatever. Then calming the fuck down, some days later and then trying to figure out what exactly went wrong... Lashing out is getting pissed off and punching someone in the face or breaking their legs but if someone comes up with a master plan to kill someone, I don't think judge in court, would see someone like that as simply a grieving person who is lashing out...

I agree. That's why the media should back off and stop egging her on.

 

[Deleted member 1768]

that is not at all what I said - her anger is unquestionably misplaced - and nobody gets a free pass, ever. I'm just saying we are spending to much time focusing on the mother. It's the media who is running with this on all the wrong topics -

Let's talk about right to die, freedom of information, harm reduction and the damaging premise of mental health services that remove freedoms for having thoughts

Spending our effort being mad at a grieving woman instead of the media is misplaced imo. We should have these discussions in the open and not try to sweep them under the rug like this woman is doing.

Might want to read this: https://davidhealy.org/left-hanging-suicide-in-bridgend

http://psychrights.org/Research/Digest/Misc/PsychiatricTreatmentAndSuicide(2014).pdf

 

[TowerUpright]

You're right, but it makes us look bad to point it out.

For the record, I am a firm believer of truth and discussion and you might well be as well.

Personally, I don't think it looks bad to discuss things, but, I would agree that the fact that disagreeing with a grieving parent may appear horrendous to some people. But perhaps not others. I prefer to dig deeper than to take things at face value. I might well be wrong about my original premise, but I'm happy others can share their opinion and (hopefully) point out flaws in my thinking so I can improve.

 

[Jynxer]

(Disclaimer - I joined the whole SS conversation after this took place)

I had a revelation earlier today. I know that this site, and others, are under scrutiny due to a suicide where the person was a member of this family. The mother, if I recall correctly, was making it a mission to shut sites like this down, because she felt they killed her daughter. Interesting enough, the obit requested that "instead of flowers, give to a (group that helps prevent suicide).

There's a conflict here, isn't there? If this person was seriously concerned about preventing suicide, would she be using her 30 seconds of fame on suggesting mental health professionals flood these sites to help people? It appears she's wants to run us underground and close our sites.. It's interesting, and ironic, that she's actually not preventing suicide: she's trying to hide it.

Therefore, preventing suicide is not her goal. She's not acting out the role as a concerned parent - she's acting out of vengeance and, likely, guilt: our family knew more about her daughter than she did. Her daughter could confide in us more than she could her own family.

That says something right there. Any thoughts? Am I way off base? Is this a verboten topic?

No, I don't think preventing suicide is her goal. You have it right in this post. The family members ( who become public) of people who ctb want to be the victims. They need someone or something to blame. That's all they have to hold on to. They dont want to admit that maybe they weren't there for that person, or that they didn't even see the signs. They want to believe that this person was 'poisoned' by those evil people who suppprted them through their struggles, instead of judging or dismissing them and their thoughts.

It's just like all the people who have died ( by suicide) due to bullying while in high school. After the fact, everyone loves them and cannot understand " what ever went wrong with this person" but while this person was in the throes of suffering and depression, they were all laughing (or silent) and nowhere to be found when that person needed it.

 

[LogicalConclusion]

No, I don't think preventing suicide is her goal. You have it right in this post. The family members ( who become public) of people who ctb want to be the victims. They need someone or something to blame. That's all they have to hold on to. They dont want to admit that maybe they weren't there for that person, or that they didn't even see the signs. They want to believe that this person was 'poisoned' by those evil people who suppprted them through their struggles, instead of judging or dismissing them and their thoughts.

It's just like all the people who have died ( by suicide) due to bullying while in high school. After the fact, everyone loves them and cannot understand " what ever went wrong with this person" but while this person was in the throes of suffering and depression, they were all laughing (or silent) and nowhere to be found when that person needed it.

Fucking thiiiiiiiis. I bet most everyone from my high school (I was /the/ target at school due to being The Goth Kid(TM)) will be like "ohhhhh, why would he ever do such a thing? he was so loved, we must be more pro-life uwu" and it's going to be disgusting

 

[Jynxer]

Fucking thiiiiiiiis. I bet most everyone from my high school (I was /the/ target at school due to being The Goth Kid(TM)) will be like "ohhhhh, why would he ever do such a thing? he was so loved, we must be more pro-life uwu" and it's going to be disgusting

Yep and those same ppl were talking behind your back the whole time! Fucking assholes. Sorry you had such a hard time in school. Makes me happy I dropped out at 15. I was bullied in elementary though. I had a sick mom, so I had to spend a lot of days visiting her in the hospital instead of hanging with friends. And I could never have anyone over due to my moms sickness. So that made me a target too. I was weird and my mom was weird too! Fuck mean people!

 

[Jean Améry]

I'll not comment on the supposed motives of a grief-stricken mother. What I will say is that it's quite naive to expect 'mental health professionals' to attempt to convert us here: who's going to pay them to do this?

The goal of psychiatry and the so called 'mental health field' is not to cure supposed mental illnesses (it's clear they can't do that) but to protect the status-quo and to keep mental and emotional suffering an individual aberration that does not reflect on society as a whole or other parties. Just like exorcisms of old they pretend to treat these so called illnesses while they haven't got the first clue as to their origins and mechanisms so whatever efficacity their methods have is mainly due to a combination of the placebo-effect and the healing effect of social contact that is perceived as caring. That and numbing thoughts and feelings into oblivion: as if turning people into zombies is so much better than having them commit suicide or expressing their pain and grief.

 

[not_a_robot]

For the record, I am a firm believer of truth and discussion and you might well be as well.

Personally, I don't think it looks bad to discuss things, but, I would agree that the fact that disagreeing with a grieving parent may appear horrendous to some people. But perhaps not others. I prefer to dig deeper than to take things at face value. I might well be wrong about my original premise, but I'm happy others can share their opinion and (hopefully) point out flaws in my thinking so I can improve.

Oh for sure. Your position is logical.
It's just that all logic and sense and reason disappear from the human mind as soon as emotions are engaged, and that's where everybody else is right now. Once the "my baby my baby" emotional narrative starts, it's just a witch hunt, and anyone trying to speak sensibly on the topic is vilified. "evil, monster, murderer."

The media are ironically reinforcing one of the best reasons on earth to ctb: that humans are intellectually such low-functioning creatures, incapable of reason.

Fucking thiiiiiiiis. I bet most everyone from my high school (I was /the/ target at school due to being The Goth Kid(TM)) will be like "ohhhhh, why would he ever do such a thing? he was so loved, we must be more pro-life uwu" and it's going to be disgusting

Or worse, it will be all:
"tsk tsk tsk, you know, he/she was always a little wrong in the head. We tried to help (by bullying), but some people just don't want to be happy.
Such a shame."

 

[Alan James]

It is noticeable that no one is interested in the thoughts and feelings of that girl (even after her death). None of them wants to know what she thought, what she said about all this, about her feelings and reasons. Everyone thinks only of himself (and this is natural).

Here is what she wrote: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/fuck-work.14859/

"The main reason I want to kill myself is because of work. It sucks so much that I have to be a slave in order to survive in this shit hole. I'm thinking of ctb in a few days and I'm not going to work today or ever again. I'm not even going to let them know. Fuck them. Fuck work. I'd actually mostly enjoy life if I was rich. Fuck this world."

Not one news site did not quote this.

They write that she had various mental disorders. But she writes that in spite of them she would not kill herself if she didn't have to work and had money, that she could enjoy life if it weren't: "I'd actually enjoy life if I was rich".

 

[Severen]

(Disclaimer - I joined the whole SS conversation after this took place)

I had a revelation earlier today. I know that this site, and others, are under scrutiny due to a suicide where the person was a member of this family. The mother, if I recall correctly, was making it a mission to shut sites like this down, because she felt they killed her daughter. Interesting enough, the obit requested that "instead of flowers, give to a (group that helps prevent suicide).

There's a conflict here, isn't there? If this person was seriously concerned about preventing suicide, would she be using her 30 seconds of fame on suggesting mental health professionals flood these sites to help people? It appears she's wants to run us underground and close our sites.. It's interesting, and ironic, that she's actually not preventing suicide: she's trying to hide it.

Therefore, preventing suicide is not her goal. She's not acting out the role as a concerned parent - she's acting out of vengeance and, likely, guilt: our family knew more about her daughter than she did. Her daughter could confide in us more than she could her own family.

That says something right there. Any thoughts? Am I way off base? Is this a verboten topic?

OR how come the mother and the father doesn't try to figure out, what made their daughter lose her will to live in the first place? And then go after those things or those people, instead... Basically this website offered her a cure. Let's say, her parents don't see it as a cure. Okay, fine. Let's say, she could have easily been cured in another way and be happy today, therefore the parents and their daughter could have lived happily ever after... So then in their eyes, shouldn't that just make this website into people who are no different than incompetent doctors? What evidence do they have to make them think, this website and it's community, exist for an evil purpose? Can they read all our minds? What would make people into jumping to the conclusion, there is some kind of death cult in existence when throughout all of human history, no such cult has existed... Why should they assume, everyone in this world, shares their values? I remember the father talking about how the website owner or owners could profit by getting a cut from the people who sell certain substances... Well such a business plan would result in very little money being made... Therefore, regardless if they get a cut or not, this website was obviously created with noble intentions. Because most people do not CTB in this world... You can't make millions or billions with websites like this... Not even hundreds of thousands. Therefore, wouldn't it be logical for the family who lost their daughter to devote most of their time and energy into going after the whatever or whoever made their daughter lose her will to live, first? This website had nothing to do with that. And then deal with this website as simply, incompetent people, partially responsible for her death? Why go after this website as the main perpetrator behind this "crime." That is extremely illogical. If these parents actually do love their dead daughter, they are not thinking straight. If they want justice, then they should go after the people or things responsible for making her lose the will to live! It's like someone getting stabbed by someone on the streets over his wallet and a doctor failed to save his life in the hospital because he made a mistake. So then, the parents of the victim should unleash the hammer of justice on the doctor? In their shoes, I'd go after the person who stabbed my child...