Afterlife proof?

[Life sucks]

Just calm down everybody

 

[Malice1]

Just calm down everybody

You know its funny i was going to post this exact same thing but instead chose to get involved in this huge debate. I'm thinking i made a mistake because I'm still in the position i was before the debate started. Nothing really changed. I still believe what i believe. So why did i even waste my time.

The last few weeks ive been looking through all kind of articles and on reddit about thoughts, cognitive thinking, and conciousness trying to find some answers but to no avail. I dont think we're quite there yet as a species which is sad because i want answers to all my questions. Hell, we may never get the answers were looking for.

 

[dangier_to_myself]

Yes can you either start that thread or share the experience here please that your friend had?

Alas I don't really remember any details. I just remember a sense of dread overcoming me when she told me. I think she said that she saw the same paradise she had seen in a previous near death experience, but that this time she was somehow barred from entering

 

[dangier_to_myself]

I'm not saying there's 100 percent proof of an afterlife. So not quite as presumptive. My stance is that there is not 100 percent proof in either direction. My opinion is that there is likely something after death.

"wipes out everything you just said" is a pretty bold claim

 

[Lisa]

"wipes out everything you just said" is a pretty bold claim

Wipes out the 100 percent claim

Can't say 100 percent without proof

 

[dangier_to_myself]

Are you sure you've checked your sources correctly?

http://www.iflscience.com/brain/scientists-pinpoint-consciousness-switch-responsible-awareness/

seriously, you people are hilarious.

The more you're told to learn about the evolutive history of the brain, as it was previously told

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21128311.800-a-brief-history-of-the-brain/

the more you refrain from it because you have to defend your personal wish to make your brain pop up from itself all of your memories, personality, whatever for no reason, also without giving specific details of how this kind of disembodied survival in the space would be possible, considering that our mind is a super delicate machinery that can get in a total mess just after a simple stroke or an aneurysm.

Thing is. as the single specific areas of our brain born for social interaction, sense of self, awareness, etc. die after our heart ceases to pump oxygen into our bloodstream, consciousness does the same. Because it heavily relies on a physical network of complex connections that eventually get dismantled and destroyed once death sets in.

It's not that difficult to understand that the concept of afterlife is complete bogus that was invented by caveman that were afraid of death.
However, since many mistake their wishes for the actual truth, I cannot wait for my digestive system to pop out in the 'afterlife' to learn how to digest whole supernovas. Yeah sure, buddy

Interesting link. I'll have to look into this more when I have more time. Couple things: 1) I was never talking about memories, personality, or anything except consciousness itself 2) This comment is a pretty perfect example of how quickly and carelessly you jump to conclusions. I'll have you know that you're arguing with a Dawkins-style atheist who neither expects nor desires to survive death

 

[Lisa]

Alas I don't really remember any details. I just remember a sense of dread overcoming me when she told me. I think she said that she saw the same paradise she had seen in a previous near death experience, but that this time she was somehow barred from entering

That would not be good

 

[dangier_to_myself]

Lol, really. I've lost all hopes
The more we try to explain that our brain isn't able to make our personality, memory and thoughts (that rely heavily on a physical network to work properly) pop up in the sky to float forever like some sort of disembodied entity, the more people come out with nonsense such as "we don't know"

Again, I don't know why you assume that survival requires that personality or memory persist (and I don't know what exactly you mean by "thoughts")

 

[Life sucks]

You know its funny i was going to post this exact same thing but instead chose to get involved in this huge debate. I'm thinking i made a mistake because I'm still in the position i was before the debate started. Nothing really changed. I still believe what i believe. So why did i even waste my time.

The last few weeks ive been looking through all kind of articles and on reddit about thoughts, cognitive thinking, and conciousness trying to find some answers but to no avail. I dont think we're quite there yet as a species which is sad because i want answers to all my questions. Hell, we may never get the answers were looking for.

It is more about belief rather than proofs. The day I'll leave the life maybe I'll know the truth.

 

[Fylobatica]

"clearly explained" , lol. he made a total mess mixing randomly nanotechnologies, the internet (what does it have to do with our ancestors' brain, lol) and his peronal wishes giving birth to the biggest specimen of wishful thinking ever,deliberately ignoring the evolutive history of our brain.

Somebody gets freaking tired of repeating for the 50th time to study actual neurobiology instead of pushing nonsense down other's people throat. The belief system is all yours to play with, I'd rather examine facts. Please stop trolling me.

Malice has clearly explained that your position that there's 100 percent no afterlife is faulty.

That's impossible to say 100 percent. He has shown that clearly.

And now you bow out, of course.

No need for you to get upset simply because you are protecting your belief system.

 

[Lisa]

"clearly explained" , lol. he made a total mess mixing randomly nanotechnologies, the internet (what does it have to do with our ancestors' brain, lol) and his peronal wishes giving birth to the biggest specimen of wishful thinking ever,deliberately ignoring the evolutive history of our brain.

Somebody gets freaking tired of repeating for the 50th time to study actual neurobiology instead of pushing nonsense down other's people throat. The belief system is all yours to play wth, I'd rather examine facts. Please stop trolling me.

You really need to do some more research, unless the topic isn't that important to you

But it looks like it might be and so if it is important to you, you should know that you haven't scratched the surface of what science has uncovered and you're not going to find all your answers on a thread here. Research...

Otherwise your clinging to people's opinions and disproven archaic theories

If you do choose to do the research you still can't hope to have a 100 per cent conclusive answer though.

 

[Fylobatica]

You really need to do some more research, unless the topic isn't that important to you

But it looks like it might be and so if it is important to you, you should know that you haven't scratched the surface of what science has uncovered and you're not going to find answers on a thread here. Research...

How funny, I was about to say the same thing. Research

 

[Lisa]

How funny, I was about to say the same thing. Research

I agree

Me too

Anyone who is interested in the topic should

I do ongoing research and it helps me

The reason people came down hard on you is because you claimed 100 percent no afterlife. Even Stephen Hawking said that was impossible to prove. Because no one can prove that claim. But you tried to and that's the reason you're getting the response your getting from everyone

 

[Fylobatica]

The reason people came down hard on you is because you claimed 100 percent no afterlife.

Yes, and I've already explained why our brain is not capable of supporting it. Just like our stomach, after death, is unable to digest a whole meal.

You all just keep pushing your personal wishes over and over again. I have nothing else to say than "please give an afterlife even to crocodiles and reptiles who died in the Cenozoic era to play Mario Kart Advance with insects and the Denisovian men forever", what else do you want from me. Peace

 

[Fylobatica]

Even Stephen Hawking said that was an impossible claim

http://bigthink.com/ideafeed/stephen-hawking-the-afterlife-is-a-fairy-tale

Stop making a fool of yourself. Bye

 

[Lisa]

http://bigthink.com/ideafeed/stephen-hawking-the-afterlife-is-a-fairy-tale

Stop making a fool of yourself. Bye

Come on I feel embarrassed for you now.

That's elementary

EVERYONE knows that STEPHEN HAWKING was an atheist.

You should be a comedian.

My point is exactly that: even a hardcore atheist said that it is impossible to prove it

Do you know why he said that?

Because it is

Please continue with your Comedy routine

 

[Fylobatica]

Come on I feel embarrassed for you now.

That's elementary

EVERYONE knows that STEPHEN HAWKING was an atheist.

You should be a comedian.

My point is exactly that: even a hardcore atheist said that it is impossible to prove it

Not actually, one of the proof is here in this thread, if there were intellectually honest people to read it and understanding it, this would be even more evident

Also, stop insulting me just because I don't buy into wishful thinking. Thanks

 

[Lisa]

A

Not actually, one of the proof is here in this thread, if there were intellectually honest people to read it and understanding it, this would be even more evident

And the people keep laughing in the aisles

Please don't stop

 

[Lisa]

http://bigthink.com/ideafeed/stephen-hawking-the-afterlife-is-a-fairy-tale

Stop making a fool of yourself. Bye

Impossible claim to prove, not an impossible claim

Anyone can claim anything as is evidenced by your posts

 

[Fylobatica]

Yeah, please continue insulting me instead of making legitimate arguments. Go on

 

[Lisa]

Yeah, please continue insulting me instead of making legitimate arguments. Go on

I'm complimenting your comedic skillset

 

[Fylobatica]

I'm complimenting your comedic skillset

Yeah, go on. Please.

 

[Fylobatica]

"Comedic skillset" while in this thread there are people who claim that the internet gave another chance at life to dinosaurs in the year 230 a.c.

going to catch some sleep, have fun in the meantime

 

[Lisa]

Not actually, one of the proof is here in this thread, if there were intellectually honest people to read it and understanding it, this would be even more evident

Also, stop insulting me just because I don't buy into wishful thinking. Thanks

Sorry I really didn't mean to insult you or hurt your feelings

 

[Malice1]

"clearly explained" , lol. he made a total mess mixing randomly nanotechnologies, the internet (what does it have to do with our ancestors' brain, lol) and his peronal wishes giving birth to the biggest specimen of wishful thinking ever,deliberately ignoring the evolutive history of our brain.

Somebody gets freaking tired of repeating for the 50th time to study actual neurobiology instead of pushing nonsense down other's people throat. The belief system is all yours to play with, I'd rather examine facts. Please stop trolling me.

Yeah a total mess to you perhaps. Just goes to show you couldnt comprehend what i was communicating to you. I wasted my time with you, obviously. You came in here with articles sourced randomly from google and stating the information in them as fact. Also since your so stuck on the evolutionary history of our brain and you know how our brains work with 100% accuracy, explain every function in the brain and how it generates conciousness.

News flash, we dont know how the brain operates completely and wont know for centuries to come at the rate that neuroscientist are moving. If neuroscientist dont even know how consciousness in the brain works, then how the hell can you? What makes you credible?

I can tell by the internet comment that you didn't get it. The point is we didnt think it was possible for such a thing to exist yet now it does.

 

[Malice1]

Sorry I really didn't mean to insult you or hurt your feelings

What are you apologizing for, your right about him.

 

[Lisa]

What are you apologizing for, your right about him.

Thank You Malice

 

[Tiredman]

Obviously he is never going to believe in an afterlife because he is biased against it. It seems that he believes that this 'Evolutive History of the Brain' article is the end all and be all of scientific progress in the field and that it cannot be wrong or improved upon. In his mind, since modern instruments and technology cannot measure or prove higher dimensional existence or an afterlife then such things must automatically be classified as false or 'wishful thinking'.

Thousands of years ago people had similar notions about the Earth. No one had the technology or instruments to prove that the world wasn't flat so believing in a round planet was considered nonsense or the 'wishful thinking' of irrational merchants wanting a short cut to Asia. Once they circumnavigated the globe however it became common knowledge and unquestionable that the world was indeed round.

As of yet the theory of an afterlife or higher dimensions cannot be accurately measured or experimented upon in a physical sense (so far as we know) because abstract theories like string theory and certain aspects of quantum mechanics cannot be proven with modern technology. This doesn't mean that these theories won't possibly be proven in the future; it simply means that there's much more research to be done before conclusions can be drawn.

Scientists are rarely 100% certain about anything considering that even with certain mathematical constants and scientific 'law's there seem to be odd exceptions where things appear to change or break the rules. For example, worm holes could technically allow for particles to travel faster than light or even traverse through time by bending the fabric of space-time but again we do not have the technology or mathematics available yet to explain or even prove their existence.

 

[Lisa]

Obviously he is never going to believe in an afterlife because he is biased against it. It seems that he believes that this 'Evolutive History of the Brain' article is the end all and be all of scientific progress in the field and that it cannot be wrong or improved upon. In his mind, since modern instruments and technology cannot measure or prove higher dimensional existence or an afterlife then such things must automatically be classified as false or 'wishful thinking'.

Thousands of years ago people had similar notions about the Earth. No one had the technology or instruments to prove that the world wasn't flat so believing in a round planet was considered nonsense or the 'wishful thinking' of irrational merchants wanting to a short cut to Asia. Once they circumnavigated the globe however it became common knowledge and unquestionable that the world was indeed round.

As of yet the theory of an afterlife or higher dimensions cannot be accurately measured or experimented upon in a physical sense (so far as we know) because abstract theories like string theory and certain aspects of quantum mechanics cannot be proven with modern technology. This doesn't mean that these theories won't possibly be proven in the future; it simply means that there's much more research to be done before conclusions can be drawn.

Scientists are rarely 100% certain about anything considering that even with certain mathematical constants and scientific 'law's there seem to be odd exceptions where things appear to change or break the rules. For example, worm holes could technically allow for particles to travel faster than light or even traverse through time by bending the fabric of space-time but again we do not have the technology or mathematics available yet to explain or even prove their existence.

Yes very very true

Maybe someday...

 

[Fylobatica]

You came in here with articles sourced randomly from google

"randomly from Google", yeah. FYI, New Scientist, Nature and Biology Letters are the most reputable sources around, and most importantly they do not make claims based on 3 cherry picked arguments mashed up to get to absolutely no conclusion.
We already have explained how a physical structure for our brain is necessary to kickstart the whole cognitive process, and how the minimum damage can lead somebody to be a wholly different person from what he/she was. But hey, we should have absolutely at all costs people with dementia, newborns who prematurely die and basically everybody on Earth to pop up from their cranium their brain functions to enjoy playing with the consciousness of deceased dinosaurs in the afterlife

I can tell by the internet comment that you didn't get it. The point is we didnt think it was possible for such a thing to exist yet now it does.

lol, still confusing technological innovations with actual biology. I'll pass

But whatever, I'll let people enjoy their trillion years lifespan floating around Canis Maioris.
Ad maiora, as they say.I'm tired of debating with people who don't want to examine their claims objectively.
Bye, for good now