Discussion Afterlife (and related) general discussion

[Rollo]

heh, "happening to me" means that you can perceive it. Call it what you will, go by linguistic games, but self consciousness is as clear as the sunlight

No these are not linguistic games - these are just you being wrong. 'Happening to me' don't mean 'can perceive it' simply because 'can' mean possibility not event. Still you probably mean 'happening to me' is the same as 'I'm perceiving it happening to me', like 'i'm thinking about my past experiences' is the same as 'I'm perceiving myself thinking about my past experiences'. And in both these phrases you may note the ditinction ME and what's HAPPENING TO ME. So these are hardly the same. Still the correct one is 'happening to me' because by adding this word 'perception' you don't really change anything - it's still me and something that is happening to me. Perception doesn't really mean 'anything that is happening to me'. Perception is the work of mind like when you look at the picture and see people, plants etc even though you're only looking at colored flat surface.

oh yes, just because my car caught fire in a crash and got completely destroyed doesn't mean that it will never reappear again as it was before

But cars and memories are kinda different things. Memories do disappear and then reappear. And bodies unlike cars do regenerate. Still I'm not even arguing natural order - I'm saying you can't apply it to supernatural. And that you can't counter.

more like a fantasy, that are so popular in this thread. You couldn't reach an amount of "infinite humans" even if you cloned thousandfold billions of people

'Infinite' is not an amount - it's absence of any limit to the amount. And anyway you can switch infinite to thousandfold billions or some greater number - it has no substantial bearing on what I said. And the only thing you can do is keep repeating words like 'fantasy' and 'false' as if it's a spell which alone is enough to make your case. But it's not.

 

[Fylobatica]

Is this thing where almost everybody pushes forward fantasies and personal faith as surefire "proof" about something (?) still going on?

 

[Rollo]

Is this thing where almost everybody pushes forward fantasies and personal faith as surefire "proof" about something (?) still going on?

It sure does. Like KCN is categorically asserting that individual memories are forever destroyed by death. As if he's in tune with forever.

 

[KCN]

It sure does. Like KCN is categorically asserting that individual memories are forever destroyed by death. As if he's in tune with forever.

well, are you? Delightful, but considering how memories are formed, we don't have that much of a chance other than for specific mental processes to be forever destroyed. They require specific chemicals and unless you can document the exact way that a disembodied entity can produce them in the middle of nowhere I guess that there's no way to be alive floating forever with no boundaries...

If only somebody cared to detail how somebody is supposed to live without a brain, we'd be so grateful.

 

[Rollo]

well, are you? Delightful, but considering how memories are formed, we don't have that much of a chance other than for specific mental processes to be forever destroyed. They require specific chemicals and unless you can document the exact way that a disembodied entity can produce them in the middle of nowhere I guess that there's no way to be alive floating forever with no boundaries...

If only somebody cared to detail how somebody is supposed to live without a brain, we'd be so grateful.

But it's you who's saying memories are forever destroyed. Not me. You need to ask jellyfish how you can live without a brain. Once again - you're taking natural order and assume that's all there's to it. Quite an assumption.

And like I said - I too rather believe individual memories are destroyed after death. I just don't think it matters.

 

[KCN]

Jellyfishes don't rely on a heavily specialized sense of self (and that's why I was talking about the difference between being conscious and self conscious before) like we do, thus their synaptic system could experience continuous regeneration - and most importantly, we're not jellyfishes-- I personally wouldn't ask a panda to be a bird and fly just to compare experiences

also

Like KCN is categorically asserting that individual memories are forever destroyed by death. As if he's in tune with forever.

And like I said - I too rather believe individual memories are destroyed after death.

...

well, ok, bye

 

[Rollo]

Jellyfishes don't rely on a heavily specialized sense of self (and that's why I was talking about the difference between being conscious and self conscious before) like we do, thus their synaptic system could experience continuous regeneration - and most importantly, we're not jellyfishes-- I personally wouldn't ask a panda to be a bird and fly just to compare experiences

well, ok, bye

So now you know how it is to be a jellyfish. That they don't 'rely on heavily specialized sense of self'. Whatever it means. And yeah there's a difference between thinking that something rather exists and categorically asserting it with no proof that warrants such assertion. You make wild claims and can't really back them up. Cause these claims are nothing but semi-coherent fantasies on your part. Bye.

 

[KCN]

And yeah there's a difference between thinking that something rather exists and categorically asserting it with no proof that warrants such assertion. You make wild claims and can't really back them up. Cause these claims are nothing but semi-coherent fantasies on your part. Bye.

... well, actually you were the one who stated that consciousness can have a separate life as it could fly up to the mount everest disembodied without a brain, not me... Just look back a couple of posts before these.

And maybe yeah let's find the great glutamate and GABA tree that allows us to be ourselves and maintain our perception of self even when we're floating among galaxies. Good luck with that...

 

[Bleakmind]

I believe heaven and hell are both a state of mind. Unshakable peace vs mental torture and torment, the reason most of us are on this forum. If you really think about it, what happens in the afterlife doesn't really matter seeing that you won't be yourself or have past memories if reincarnation is real. "god" and "satan" are supposedly petty enough to involve us in an eternal feud over power (how's that different from politicians and the top 1%? It Isn't because it's just another way of making regular ppl feel like they don't matter.)Whatever you do, no one really knows till that book of names is open. I really mean no offence to anyone religious, that is just my opinion on not only how illogical but also selfish your deity is ‍. Regardless of the after life, this life is all we will ever know.

 

[Rollo]

... well, actually you were the one who stated that consciousness can have a separate life as it could fly up to the mount everest disembodied without a brain, not me... Just look back a couple of posts before these.

And maybe yeah let's find the great glutamate and GABA tree that allows us to be ourselves and maintain our perception of self even when we're floating among galaxies. Good luck with that...

I thought you were gone though. See if you took time to actually understand what I said instead of getting all emotional - then you would notice that I simply said that self is the same reality from person to person. From being to being. So it can't get destroyed simply because beings keep existing. Individual memories and bodies can get destroyed - but it doesn't matter because individuality is not what's prescious about them. All this supernatural stuff about body-less existence - I never even touched it. You did when you said how it can't happen. As if you have complete knowkedge of what can and can't happen.

 

[KCN]

I thought you were gone though. See if you took time actually understand what I said instead of getting all emotional - then you would notice that I simply said that self is the same reality from person to person. From being to being. So it can't get destroyed simply because beings keep existing. Individual memories and bodies can get destroyed - but it doesn't matter because individuality is not what's prescious about them. All this supernatural stuff about body-less existence - I never even touched it. You did when you said how it can't happen. As if you have complete knowkedge what can and can't happen.

The self is a very individual and personal thing, on the contrary; if it wasn't, you would be me, I would be somebody else and basically we'd be absolutely nothing due to the extreme chaos this situation would bring.

As if you have complete knowkedge what can and can't happen.

you were the one who claimed that we're everlasting without any possible doubt, buddy... Don't place your faults on me

 

[Rollo]

The self is a very individual and personal thing, on the contrary; if it wasn't, you would be me, I would be somebody else and basically we'd be absolutely nothing due to the extreme chaos this situation would bring.

Still here? How it's individual though? I AM you. I am you with somewhat different body, different age, somewhat different life experience, somewhat different emotional structure and somewhat different memories. But none of these things are self. Because you may well have been put in my shoes at age 0. And guess what would happen then?

How you jumped to 'we'd be absolutely nothing' is beyond me. That's some Olympics grade jump right there )

you were the one who claimed that we're everlasting without any possible doubt, buddy... Don't place your faults on me

But you still claim how body-less existence is impossible. So I'm not placing any faults - just plain reading your ideas.

I didn't say we're everlasting - I said death of an individual body doesn't destroy us. Still I do have a strong suspicion that we, beings including humans and animals, are everlasting.

 

[Fylobatica]

I AM you. I am you with somewhat different body, different age, somewhat different life experience, somewhat different emotional structure and somewhat different memories. But none of these things are self. Because you may well have been put in my shoes at age 0.

delusions are strong here

 

[Rollo]

delusions are strong here

It's not a delusion because if it was then you would have no problem showing where it is. You don't have to agree though it's cool.

 

[KCN]

Still here? How it's individual though? I AM you. I am you with somewhat different body, different age, somewhat different life experience, somewhat different emotional structure and somewhat different memories. But none of these things are self. Because you may well have been put in my shoes at age 0. And guess what would happen then?
I didn't say we're everlasting - I said death of an individual body doesn't destroy us. Still I do have a strong suspicion that we, beings including humans and animals, are everlasting.

oh cool, I'll make sure that I didn't become my gaming keyboard in this mess, you may never be sure about your real identity

I'll also make sure to not gravitate towards the sun after death, I might cause a helium chain reaction

 

[Rollo]

oh cool, I'll make sure that I didn't become my gaming keyboard in this mess, you may never be sure about your real identity

I'll also make sure to not gravitate towards the sun after death, I might cause a helium chain reaction

Better make sure that supernatural strawman you keep poking decisive holes in dooesn't suffocate you at night ) Keyboard is not a being and that's one very important distinction. You is YOU and not IT. Not a thing, not even your body.

 

[KCN]

Better make sure that supernatural strawman

"supernatural has no boundaries", you said it yourself...

Keyboard is not a being

Panpsychists would disagree

 

[Rollo]

I believe heaven and hell are both a stateo of mind. Unshakable peace vs mental torture and torment, the reason most of us are on this forum. If you really think about it, what happens in the afterlife doesn't really matter seeing that you won't be yourself or have past memories if reincarnation is real. "god" and "satan" are supposedly petty enough to involve us in an eternal feud over power (how's that different from politicians and the top 1%? It Isn't because it's just another way of making regular ppl feel like they don't matter.)Whatever you do, no one really knows till that book of names is open. I really mean no offence to anyone religious, that is just my opinion on not only how illogical but also selfish your deity is ‍. Regardless of the after life, this life is all we will ever know.

Interesting thing is many christian people think Satan runs hell. Which would be illogical - why would he torture you for doing his bidding. While the actual strory is Satan is on Earth seducing people into sin for which he will be sent to hell together with all the sinners. Hell being run by God.

 

[Bleakmind]

Interesting thing is many christian people think Satan runs hell. Which would be illogical - why would he torture you for doing his bidding. While the actual strory is Satan is on Earth seducing people into sin for which he will be sent to hell together with all the sinners. Hell being run by God.

The contradiction in most faiths amazes me. But I understand we all have a void to fill so i guess to each their own, I'll continue filling mine with weed LOL

 

[Rollo]

"supernatural has no boundaries", you said it yourself...

Nowhere did I say it.

Panpsychists would disagree

So they're buch of idiots then. Why even bring them up. Or are you agreeing with them?

 

[throwaway123]

I don't believe in the afterlife. Even though I have lost many friends here and feel the desire to meet them again in some of an afterlife I do not believe in it. It's sad, cruel but the harsh truth. There's nothing we can do. You can have faith or belief in something but in the end you won't be that special snowflake. You'll turn to dust like everyone else and be very very dissapointed.

 

[+ + + +]

Rollo, do I understand you correctly - body and personality dies, self survives, but where does self go after death then?

 

[Rollo]

The contradiction in most faiths amazes me. But I understand we all have a void to fill so i guess to each their own, I'll continue filling mine with weed LOL

Yeah I'm a bit on weed right now too (rather on that black resin leftovers - final squeeze of my long gone harvest). To be fair there's no contradiction here - actual God-Satan strory makes sense. There are other actual contradictions but that's a different story.

 

[Bleakmind]

Yeah I'm a bit on weed right now too (rather on that black resin leftovers - final squeeze of my long gone harvest). To be fair there's no contradiction here - actual God-Satan strory makes sense. There are other actual contradictions but that's a different story.

an all loving father who would rather bbq his children with his bff gone archenemy all because of almighty pride, "ask for forgiveness" is the only way out right? Very ironic god he is.

 

[Rollo]

Rollo, do I understand you correctly - body and personality dies, self survives, but where does self go after death then?

It doesn't go anywhere, stays exactly where it was. See what I'm saying is different beings you see are a bunch of copies of self. So death of one doesn't affect the very existence of self. Even with personality. Take anything about your personality you value - your memories, emotional constitution, whatever. You can bet that even on planet Earth there's a number of human beings who's having the same except with unimportant alterations. And Earth is but a drop in the ocean of inhabited planets in the Universe as best as I can tell. So even though individual personality is probably destroyed - everything important about it keeps existing.

 

[Rollo]

an all loving father who would rather bbq his children with his bff gone archenemy all because of almighty pride, "ask for forgiveness" is the only way out right? Very ironic god he is.

See it's actually a very interesting subject. I'm atheist mind you. Actual loving father starts at Genesis 1.1 and ends at Genesis 2.3. They felt necessary to include 7th day in 2nd chapter just to hide the transition even though by all logic they should have kept it in Genesis 1. Anyway from Genesis 2.4 he's not 'God' but 'LORD God' to you. Meaning he says you obey. And from then on it's pretty much Lord getting pissed at his subjects for violating his rules.

 

[AntiLifeEric]

More dank architecture

 

[NoOne7]

Here You.got the answers straight from the medium. Generaly misery after the suicide. Always with regrets ..

https://www.amandalinettemeder.com/blog/2015/4/13/suicide-what-happens-to-the-spirit-after-death

 

[Ihategodheruinedme]

*raises hand* Always. It's the main thing that holds me back honestly.

Yes. And its terrible. I don't know how else to do it if I don't know

 

[LoverofDeath]

Anyone afraid of suicide because of going to hell. Like it scares you that much that you can't do it because of that?

Sometimes... I deserve it though and I'll probably go through with suicide